Magnussen to Replace Maldonado?

[pokerman]

Although one wonders what would happen if Maldonado was retained..

"We know how fast Maldonado can be, he has that 1 GP win under his belt after all. After trebling Pastor's points tally for this year, Valtteri Bottas must be the next F1 superstar. Mercedes and Ferrari are believed to be breaking down the doors to get their hands on him despite Williams putting a $50 million price tag on his head"

Really?

I thought things had cooled in respect to Bottas being in demand by the top teams?

jasonthebadger's post, and the quotes around mcdo's post, should give you all you need to understand mcdo's post

Ah right I thought I'd missed something in the recent gossip mill

[HS Thompson]

I hope the rumors are true and that Maldonado beats a hasty exit from Formula One.

[KingVoid]

Now we have statistical evidence to prove that Maldonado is indeed a liability as a driver.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/01/15/m ... er-driver/

What is more tragic than anything else is that he is 30 years old, 2015 was his 5th season in F1, yet he seems to have learned absolutely nothing.

[pokerman]

Now we have statistical evidence to prove that Maldonado is indeed a liability as a driver.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/01/15/m ... er-driver/

What is more tragic than anything else is that he is 30 years old, 2015 was his 5th season in F1, yet he seems to have learned absolutely nothing.

I think most people are already aware of this as well as Maldonado's sponsors having to pay in the region of $30M a year to keep him in F1.

[moby]

Give him his due, he kept Lotus in the game for a few years. Without him they may well have fallen by the wayside and died.

[pokerman]

Give him his due, he kept Lotus in the game for a few years. Without him they may well have fallen by the wayside and died.

...and he got Williams back on their feet, the money has been of great benefit to F1 but not Maldonado's driving itself.

[Teddy007]

Despite being a GP2 Champion I guess it just shows what many of us already thought, that Maldonado is very much a pay driver and when the money dries up so will his F1 career.

KMag himself does not have a massive amount of F1 experience and let's not forget he was dropped by McLaren however unfortunate that might have been, but again it shows the low standing that Maldonado has in F1 that Renault would quite happy to replace him with KMag, a driver that brings little to no sponsorship to the team.

Completely agree.

Maldonado has not helped his career by slamming in to other drivers then proclaiming he did nothing wrong. Fact is in F1, to succeed you must first bring the car home. You lose valuable points by being an unreliable driver who doesn't even finish. Look at McLaren, how many more points and valuable data would they have gained if they had a car that could finish every race. Where would they be in the standings as well - although not majorly higher it could have been a place or two.

Reliability and finishing is always the first key factor in F1, if you don't - it really doesn't matter if you are the fastest man in the world. With nothing to show for it.

For teams that are struggling financially, it really doesn't bold well for them if most of that driver money is being sent keeping the car on the track let alone finishing. I think Kevin deserves a race seat, he gave JB a good run for his money.

[mikeyg123]

Despite being a GP2 Champion I guess it just shows what many of us already thought, that Maldonado is very much a pay driver and when the money dries up so will his F1 career.

KMag himself does not have a massive amount of F1 experience and let's not forget he was dropped by McLaren however unfortunate that might have been, but again it shows the low standing that Maldonado has in F1 that Renault would quite happy to replace him with KMag, a driver that brings little to no sponsorship to the team.

Completely agree.

Maldonado has not helped his career by slamming in to other drivers then proclaiming he did nothing wrong. Fact is in F1, to succeed you must first bring the car home. You lose valuable points by being an unreliable driver who doesn't even finish. Look at McLaren, how many more points and valuable data would they have gained if they had a car that could finish every race. Where would they be in the standings as well - although not majorly higher it could have been a place or two.

Reliability and finishing is always the first key factor in F1, if you don't - it really doesn't matter if you are the fastest man in the world. With nothing to show for it.

For teams that are struggling financially, it really doesn't bold well for them if most of that driver money is being sent keeping the car on the track let alone finishing. I think Kevin deserves a race seat, he gave JB a good run for his money.

Maldanado has been at fault for fewer retirements than Grosjean whilst at Lotus.

[nixxxon]

Love him or hate him, but one thing for sure Pastor Maldonado has won 1 GP in his F1 career, something that Kevin Magnussen hasn't achieved.

He didn't get that win in his rookie year though, so it's a pretty irrelevant comparison against a driver with only a single year in F1. He's got the same number of podiums as Kevin anyway, despite starting almost 5 times as many races.

I felt I had to quote this (again)
Sometimes I think you guys give too much importance at the rookie year thing. Its like in the rookie year you know nothing, and in the second you know everything. No. You know so much about racing already in your rookie year and in the 2nd one you know more, but you can still learn a lot for many years to come.

[mikeyg123]

Love him or hate him, but one thing for sure Pastor Maldonado has won 1 GP in his F1 career, something that Kevin Magnussen hasn't achieved.

He didn't get that win in his rookie year though, so it's a pretty irrelevant comparison against a driver with only a single year in F1. He's got the same number of podiums as Kevin anyway, despite starting almost 5 times as many races.

I felt I had to quote this (again)
Sometimes I think you guys give too much importance at the rookie year thing. Its like in the rookie year you know nothing, and in the second you know everything. No. You know so much about racing already in your rookie year and in the 2nd one you know more, but you can still learn a lot for many years to come.

I think it does actually make quite a difference. Not one driver currently on the grid outscored an average or better team mate with at least one seasons experience in their rookie season.

[nixxxon]

Love him or hate him, but one thing for sure Pastor Maldonado has won 1 GP in his F1 career, something that Kevin Magnussen hasn't achieved.

He didn't get that win in his rookie year though, so it's a pretty irrelevant comparison against a driver with only a single year in F1. He's got the same number of podiums as Kevin anyway, despite starting almost 5 times as many races.

I felt I had to quote this (again)
Sometimes I think you guys give too much importance at the rookie year thing. Its like in the rookie year you know nothing, and in the second you know everything. No. You know so much about racing already in your rookie year and in the 2nd one you know more, but you can still learn a lot for many years to come.

I think it does actually make quite a difference. Not one driver currently on the grid outscored an average or better team mate with at least one seasons experience in their rookie season.

Outscoring or not, true great drivers have shown great pace and great performances in their very first season. Senna, Schumacher, Alonso or Hamilton come to mind

[mikeyg123]

Love him or hate him, but one thing for sure Pastor Maldonado has won 1 GP in his F1 career, something that Kevin Magnussen hasn't achieved.

He didn't get that win in his rookie year though, so it's a pretty irrelevant comparison against a driver with only a single year in F1. He's got the same number of podiums as Kevin anyway, despite starting almost 5 times as many races.

I felt I had to quote this (again)
Sometimes I think you guys give too much importance at the rookie year thing. Its like in the rookie year you know nothing, and in the second you know everything. No. You know so much about racing already in your rookie year and in the 2nd one you know more, but you can still learn a lot for many years to come.

I think it does actually make quite a difference. Not one driver currently on the grid outscored an average or better team mate with at least one seasons experience in their rookie season.

Outscoring or not, true great drivers have shown great pace and great performances in their very first season. Senna, Schumacher, Alonso or Hamilton come to mind

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

[pokerman]

Love him or hate him, but one thing for sure Pastor Maldonado has won 1 GP in his F1 career, something that Kevin Magnussen hasn't achieved.

He didn't get that win in his rookie year though, so it's a pretty irrelevant comparison against a driver with only a single year in F1. He's got the same number of podiums as Kevin anyway, despite starting almost 5 times as many races.

I felt I had to quote this (again)
Sometimes I think you guys give too much importance at the rookie year thing. Its like in the rookie year you know nothing, and in the second you know everything. No. You know so much about racing already in your rookie year and in the 2nd one you know more, but you can still learn a lot for many years to come.

I think it does actually make quite a difference. Not one driver currently on the grid outscored an average or better team mate with at least one seasons experience in their rookie season.

Hulkenberg's rookie season was worse than Maldonado's in comparison to Barrichello, I feel you have to give drivers at least 2 seasons in F1 to give them a fair chance.

[mikeyg123]

Love him or hate him, but one thing for sure Pastor Maldonado has won 1 GP in his F1 career, something that Kevin Magnussen hasn't achieved.

He didn't get that win in his rookie year though, so it's a pretty irrelevant comparison against a driver with only a single year in F1. He's got the same number of podiums as Kevin anyway, despite starting almost 5 times as many races.

I felt I had to quote this (again)
Sometimes I think you guys give too much importance at the rookie year thing. Its like in the rookie year you know nothing, and in the second you know everything. No. You know so much about racing already in your rookie year and in the 2nd one you know more, but you can still learn a lot for many years to come.

I think it does actually make quite a difference. Not one driver currently on the grid outscored an average or better team mate with at least one seasons experience in their rookie season.

Hulkenberg's rookie season was worse than Maldonado's in comparison to Barrichello, I feel you have to give drivers at least 2 seasons in F1 to give them a fair chance.

Agreed.

[pokerman]

Despite being a GP2 Champion I guess it just shows what many of us already thought, that Maldonado is very much a pay driver and when the money dries up so will his F1 career.

KMag himself does not have a massive amount of F1 experience and let's not forget he was dropped by McLaren however unfortunate that might have been, but again it shows the low standing that Maldonado has in F1 that Renault would quite happy to replace him with KMag, a driver that brings little to no sponsorship to the team.

Completely agree.

Maldonado has not helped his career by slamming in to other drivers then proclaiming he did nothing wrong. Fact is in F1, to succeed you must first bring the car home. You lose valuable points by being an unreliable driver who doesn't even finish. Look at McLaren, how many more points and valuable data would they have gained if they had a car that could finish every race. Where would they be in the standings as well - although not majorly higher it could have been a place or two.

Reliability and finishing is always the first key factor in F1, if you don't - it really doesn't matter if you are the fastest man in the world. With nothing to show for it.

For teams that are struggling financially, it really doesn't bold well for them if most of that driver money is being sent keeping the car on the track let alone finishing. I think Kevin deserves a race seat, he gave JB a good run for his money.

Maldanado has been at fault for fewer retirements than Grosjean whilst at Lotus.

He did pick up several driver penalties though like speeding in the pits, passing under yellow flags etc.

He is still a driver who can find a way of messing things up.

[nixxxon]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

[mds]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

[nixxxon]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

[mikeyg123]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

I still think drivers often improve massively from their debut seasons and are often beaten by drivers you would expect them to beat. I agree the guys who go onto become real starts often show flashes of brilliance. But look how Button was beaten by Ralf in his debut season, Rosberg beaten by Webber, Kimi beaten by Heidfeld etc. Look how Kubica compared againts Heidfeld in 06 and 07 compared to 08.

[Zoue]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

Yes I'd have to agree that anecdotal evidence from drivers past and present would suggest that driving an F1 car for the first time now is nowhere near the leap it used to be in the past. They are much tamer.

[mds]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

I'm not exaggerating. There is a lot to take in when going to F1. There's a plethora of procedures to take in (both car related as well as non car related), the technology is far more advanced and needs time to get a feeling for. Even things that should be simple (and are in lower categories) can be vastly more complex. Just look at the steering wheels for an example of that.

A driver like Magnussen, with a good CV and the reigning champ in one of the main feeder series, has shown us 2 things:
1. the cars are not wild beasts to tame anymore so they are reasonably mild (when compared to before) to drive around the track
2. the cars definitely take a while to get a feeling for. Tyres, driving style, manner of operating, ... . You have to master it all to be able to stand up to someone with experience.

And yes, all of that you have to take in in your rookie year, and in your second year you're used to it all and the changes are far smaller than the step up to F1.

Karts are entirely mechanical. F4's, F3's, even FR3.5's or GP2's are basically straightforward go-fast machines. GP2 has the tyre dependency which a driver has to take in but other than that the operation of a GP2 car is pretty straightforward. I mean, when a driver like Salvatore de Plano can buy a test session in a GP2 car during winter testing and is able to not make a complete joke of himself (other than just being a bit slow), I know enough. A man like that wouldn't be able to run an F1 car around a track at speed if his life depended on it.

[mds]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

Yes I'd have to agree that anecdotal evidence from drivers past and present would suggest that driving an F1 car for the first time now is nowhere near the leap it used to be in the past. They are much tamer.

They are tamer but there's more to take in now.

30 years ago you got in and you drove it. You had pedals, a steering wheel with next to no buttons, and that was it.
Now you study for two months in order to understand the steering wheel, control subsystems, advised driving style, ...

[Zoue]

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

Yes I'd have to agree that anecdotal evidence from drivers past and present would suggest that driving an F1 car for the first time now is nowhere near the leap it used to be in the past. They are much tamer.

They are tamer but there's more to take in now.

30 years ago you got in and you drove it. You had pedals, a steering wheel with next to no buttons, and that was it.
Now you study for two months in order to understand the steering wheel, control subsystems, advised driving style, ...

Agreed. But we are talking Playstation generation here. I don't think it would be as foreign a concept as you might imagine

[mds]

Agreed. But we are talking Playstation generation here. I don't think it would be as foreign a concept as you might imagine

There's a rather big difference between leaning back in a comfortable couch and playing a game, and being in an actual car with 900HP and having to deliver all that to the track.

I'm not saying it's an insurmountable challenge, the point I want to make is merely that a rookie year is a lot different to all follow-up years in which all changes and learnings are incremental.

[Lentulus]

Sure but the 1st season does make a difference in terms of performance.

Yes, but it is often exaggerated, thats what I'm saying. Usually drivers have raced for so many years before F1 debut, except for some rare cases like Max Verstappen. Therefore they have experience in racing. Alonso for example had something like 12 years of racing experience when he made his F1 debut at 18

Driving karts, or F3's, or almost anything else, is something entirely different to F1. The step up to F1 is huge. It's revolution vs evolution: rookies have to learn an awful lot, it's unlike what they've experienced before. The years after that the learnings are incremental and not even remotely comparable to what they have to take in during the rookie year.

See you're exaggerating here. Most of aspects are the same. The difference is the competitiveness and the performance of the cars.
Maybe many years ago the difference between F1 and lower categories was enormous, but not anymore

Yes I'd have to agree that anecdotal evidence from drivers past and present would suggest that driving an F1 car for the first time now is nowhere near the leap it used to be in the past. They are much tamer.

According to Martin Brundle this has been the state of affairs for a good number of years.
He said it when Vettel made his debut, and said it earlier than that (though the Vettel one is the earliest I can remember the specific time Brundle said it).

[purchville]

The source is confirmed. Renault representatives are heading to Venezuela to discuss if PDVSA was in breach of contract..

If so: Maldonado's season could be over before testing begins.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnu ... ds-667592/

Watching the P.O.O over the last couple of months I've been waiting for something like this

[mcdo]

The source is confirmed. Renault representatives are heading to Venezuela to discuss if PDVSA was in breach of contract..

If so: Maldonado's season could be over before testing begins.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnu ... ds-667592/

Watching the P.O.O over the last couple of months I've been waiting for something like this

Watching the what?

[RaggedMan]

The source is confirmed. Renault representatives are heading to Venezuela to discuss if PDVSA was in breach of contract..

If so: Maldonado's season could be over before testing begins.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnu ... ds-667592/

Watching the P.O.O over the last couple of months I've been waiting for something like this

Watching the what?

Had to scratch my head on that one too, but I think it's Price Of Oil.

[purchville]

The source is confirmed. Renault representatives are heading to Venezuela to discuss if PDVSA was in breach of contract..

If so: Maldonado's season could be over before testing begins.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnu ... ds-667592/

Watching the P.O.O over the last couple of months I've been waiting for something like this

Watching the what?

Had to scratch my head on that one too, but I think it's Price Of Oil.

Correct

[Black_Flag_11]

Webber doesn't seem to rate Maldonado very highly

http://planetf1.com/news/webber-vettels ... the-worst/

Asked who was the ‘worst driver he’d ever shared a track with’, he (Webber) answered: “Probably Maldonado.

“He’s out of his depth and just shouldn’t be there. He’s making up the numbers basically.”

I think that's a bit harsh.

[mikeyg123]

Webber doesn't seem to rate Maldonado very highly

http://planetf1.com/news/webber-vettels ... the-worst/

Asked who was the ‘worst driver he’d ever shared a track with’, he (Webber) answered: “Probably Maldonado.

“He’s out of his depth and just shouldn’t be there. He’s making up the numbers basically.”

I think that's a bit harsh.

It's also a load of rubbish. Even if we just consider F1 Webber drove at the same time as Ide.

Maldanado has never been the worse driver on the grid in F1.

[pokerman]

Webber doesn't seem to rate Maldonado very highly

http://planetf1.com/news/webber-vettels ... the-worst/

Asked who was the ‘worst driver he’d ever shared a track with’, he (Webber) answered: “Probably Maldonado.

“He’s out of his depth and just shouldn’t be there. He’s making up the numbers basically.”

I think that's a bit harsh.

It's also a load of rubbish. Even if we just consider F1 Webber drove at the same time as Ide.

Maldanado has never been the worse driver on the grid in F1.

Maybe he sees Maldonado as being the worse driver in terms of wheel to wheel combat, I know Webber hated having to deal with Maldonado on the track.

[theferret]

Webber doesn't seem to rate Maldonado very highly

http://planetf1.com/news/webber-vettels ... the-worst/

Asked who was the ‘worst driver he’d ever shared a track with’, he (Webber) answered: “Probably Maldonado.

“He’s out of his depth and just shouldn’t be there. He’s making up the numbers basically.”

I think that's a bit harsh.

It's also a load of rubbish. Even if we just consider F1 Webber drove at the same time as Ide.

Maldanado has never been the worse driver on the grid in F1.

Did he ever really share track with Ide? Ide was always so far behind!

[F1 MERCENARY]

From 2010-2013 there were plenty of guys throwing wads of cash around to get their turn behind the wheel of lesser teams' cars. I don't know what Webber has against the guy but Maldonando is a quite capable driver. Maybe Maldonado never cared to rub elbowz with Mark would be my guess as to the reasoning behind this statement.

[mcdo]

Autosport now reporting that it's as good as a done deal, Kev's in and Pastor's out:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122625

[hittheapex]

Webber doesn't seem to rate Maldonado very highly

http://planetf1.com/news/webber-vettels ... the-worst/

Asked who was the ‘worst driver he’d ever shared a track with’, he (Webber) answered: “Probably Maldonado.

“He’s out of his depth and just shouldn’t be there. He’s making up the numbers basically.”

I think that's a bit harsh.

It's also a load of rubbish. Even if we just consider F1 Webber drove at the same time as Ide.

Maldanado has never been the worse driver on the grid in F1.

However I would be happy to see Magnussen given another chance.

[Zoue]

Autosport now reporting that it's as good as a done deal, Kev's in and Pastor's out:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122625

You beat me to it. Interesting to see what KM can do if this indeed goes ahead

[owenmahamilton]

No sad loss in my opinion.

[mikeyg123]

Very glad to see Magnussen back although I think Pastor did well enough over the past few years to stay.

[pokerman]

Three words: No Great Loss