Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

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Which Historical Driver was Better & why

Thierry Boutsen
2
7%
Heinz-Harald Frentzen
2
7%
Juan Pablo Montoya
19
63%
Michele Alboreto
1
3%
Elio de Angelis
6
20%
 
Total votes: 30

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Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Donington93 »

Here are some decent drivers who no one rates as among the all time greats, if you had to choose one of them, say as your #2 driver who would you choose and why.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by pokerman »

Elio de Angelis, he was better than Mansell over the 3 years they were teammates, also I would say he was a decent teammate for Senna. I'm guessing he was edged out of the Lotus team by Senna who thought that Lotus couldn't run 2 competitive cars.

I didn't even consider Montoya because he would refuse to be a #2 driver as opposed to de Angelis who was a consummate gentleman.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by POBRatings »

Such an interesting selection! Thinking out aloud before committing:
I'd go for Montoya for sheer talent and speed and to rattle any number one drivers' cage.
Alboreto for being a nice guy to work with, but only when he was fast until 1985.
Pokerman's choice is probably the best for any team: de Angelis was so effortlessly talented and fast. By my calculations de Angelis's speed dropped significantly in 1985 due to having Senna as team-mate at Lotus.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by POBRatings »

OK I've gone for Montoya. My reason being he would not have let a number one destroy his spirit/speed as de Angelis and Frentzen allowed. Also think he was fastest on the list. My one reservation is that strategically Montoya could be self-damaging. He twice sulked and dropped far back into other, slower car's accidents. Still think he'd score more for a team than the others on the list.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by mikeyg123 »

Very tough to pick.

I would go for -

De Angelis
Montoya
Alboreto
Frentzen
Boutson

Found it almost impossible to decide between Alboreto and Frentzen. Also feel I am being overly harsh on Boutson because all the others had more opportunity to show their talent.

More threads like this please :-P :thumbup:

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Fiki »

pokerman wrote:Elio de Angelis, he was better than Mansell over the 3 years they were teammates, also I would say he was a decent teammate for Senna. I'm guessing he was edged out of the Lotus team by Senna who thought that Lotus couldn't run 2 competitive cars.

I didn't even consider Montoya because he would refuse to be a #2 driver as opposed to de Angelis who was a consummate gentleman.
I don't doubt for a second that Elio was a gentleman, but he didn't hide the fact that he was bitterly disappointed by the team once Senna arrived. And I can't blame him; his 1993 season had been superb and demoting him was quite uncalled for.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by pokerman »

POBRatings wrote:OK I've gone for Montoya. My reason being he would not have let a number one destroy his spirit/speed as de Angelis and Frentzen allowed. Also think he was fastest on the list. My one reservation is that strategically Montoya could be self-damaging. He twice sulked and dropped far back into other, slower car's accidents. Still think he'd score more for a team than the others on the list.
Montoya would not allow himself to be a number two in the first place that's why I didn't consider him, was Kimi the number one when Montoya crashed him out?
Last edited by pokerman on Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Elio de Angelis, he was better than Mansell over the 3 years they were teammates, also I would say he was a decent teammate for Senna. I'm guessing he was edged out of the Lotus team by Senna who thought that Lotus couldn't run 2 competitive cars.

I didn't even consider Montoya because he would refuse to be a #2 driver as opposed to de Angelis who was a consummate gentleman.
I don't doubt for a second that Elio was a gentleman, but he didn't hide the fact that he was bitterly disappointed by the team once Senna arrived. And I can't blame him; his 1993 season had been superb and demoting him was quite uncalled for.
Did he cause problems on the track though?
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by j man »

I never worked out if Frentzen was any good or not. His form over his career fluctuated more than any other driver I can think of, not so much from race to race but from season to season. He had a nightmarish 1997 season when the title was there for the taking. Curiously he then seemed more than a match for Villeneuve the following year. And then put up a much better title fight in a Jordan the year after???

The man was a total enigma.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

POBRatings wrote:OK I've gone for Montoya. My reason being he would not have let a number one destroy his spirit/speed as de Angelis and Frentzen allowed. Also think he was fastest on the list. My one reservation is that strategically Montoya could be self-damaging. He twice sulked and dropped far back into other, slower car's accidents. Still think he'd score more for a team than the others on the list.
First of all, nice to see you back 'round these parts. LOL

As for Montoya, I don't think he's 2nd Driver material but a Lead Driver and one who would NEVER back down from anyone they paired him with and he would be just as, if not faster than anyone, less "MAYBE" Michael. His greatest asset as a driver is thought to also be his greatest weakness and that would be his attitude. He was mentally strong but if he got tiddled, there was a chance he'd let his emotions get the best of him and he could potentially make a mistake.

That however is something that EVERY single great EVER has done so he is no different than any of them with the exception perhaps of the Prost. The Professor was always aware of what was going on and aside from his own team pulling a fast one on him, I don't think any driver didn't try or do something he didn't already see coming and was always ready for it. Outside maybe the one time I don't think we ever saw him unravel. Michael never unraveled either but he did throw caution to the wind and made a couple of moves as best he could, but the moves were not done well enough to hide their intent.

Best #2 driver is not even listed and that would be Rubens. The most consistent guy in a top car over a considerable period of time and rare as it was, when he was in the zone, not even the greatest could touch him. If consistent points is what you are after, I can't think of anyone who could bring them as often as Rubens. Well, perhaps Massa but he's eerily similar to Rubens in most every regard. One of the best #2's but potentially a #1 when he's on it in the right equipment.

LOL as I prepare to click on the submit button other similar examples jump out at me. Button just now. :lol:

As for Frentzen, he was as talented as anyone high up on the list of greats but for whatever the reasons, he could not maintain form all the way through seasons and to me at least, it seemed the Michael Corinna thing seemed to get to him more which is understandable. Regardless of their relationship "supposedly" being over before her and Michael hooked up, it had to weigh on Frentzen's mind. A few years later he was back on it and doing well, but again, as previously stated, he lacked consistency and only mounted a few serious challenges at the front. As it was said in "A Bronx Tale"… Wasted Talent.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Fiki »

pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Elio de Angelis, he was better than Mansell over the 3 years they were teammates, also I would say he was a decent teammate for Senna. I'm guessing he was edged out of the Lotus team by Senna who thought that Lotus couldn't run 2 competitive cars.

I didn't even consider Montoya because he would refuse to be a #2 driver as opposed to de Angelis who was a consummate gentleman.
I don't doubt for a second that Elio was a gentleman, but he didn't hide the fact that he was bitterly disappointed by the team once Senna arrived. And I can't blame him; his 1993 season had been superb and demoting him was quite uncalled for.
Did he cause problems on the track though?
No, he left the team that demoted him.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by mds »

Hmm, the poll question and the opening post do not align fully imo.

If I had to choose who the best driver was => Montoya
If I had to choose who I'd take as a #2 => I might actually go for Boutsen. As an engineer he was known for his technical proficiency, translating into excellent setup and development skills.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by POBRatings »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
POBRatings wrote:OK I've gone for Montoya. My reason being he would not have let a number one destroy his spirit/speed as de Angelis and Frentzen allowed. Also think he was fastest on the list. My one reservation is that strategically Montoya could be self-damaging. He twice sulked and dropped far back into other, slower car's accidents. Still think he'd score more for a team than the others on the list.
First of all, nice to see you back 'round these parts. LOL

As for Montoya, I don't think he's 2nd Driver material but a Lead Driver and one who would NEVER back down from anyone they paired him with and he would be just as, if not faster than anyone, less "MAYBE" Michael. His greatest asset as a driver is thought to also be his greatest weakness and that would be his attitude. He was mentally strong but if he got tiddled, there was a chance he'd let his emotions get the best of him and he could potentially make a mistake.

That however is something that EVERY single great EVER has done so he is no different than any of them with the exception perhaps of the Prost. The Professor was always aware of what was going on and aside from his own team pulling a fast one on him, I don't think any driver didn't try or do something he didn't already see coming and was always ready for it. Outside maybe the one time I don't think we ever saw him unravel. Michael never unraveled either but he did throw caution to the wind and made a couple of moves as best he could, but the moves were not done well enough to hide their intent.

Best #2 driver is not even listed and that would be Rubens. The most consistent guy in a top car over a considerable period of time and rare as it was, when he was in the zone, not even the greatest could touch him. If consistent points is what you are after, I can't think of anyone who could bring them as often as Rubens. Well, perhaps Massa but he's eerily similar to Rubens in most every regard. One of the best #2's but potentially a #1 when he's on it in the right equipment.

LOL as I prepare to click on the submit button other similar examples jump out at me. Button just now. :lol:

As for Frentzen, he was as talented as anyone high up on the list of greats but for whatever the reasons, he could not maintain form all the way through
seasons and to me at least, it seemed the Michael Corinna thing seemed to get to him more which is understandable. Regardless of their relationship "supposedly" being over before her and Michael hooked up, it had to weigh on Frentzen's mind. A few years later he was back on it and doing well, but again, as previously stated, he lacked consistency and only mounted a few serious challenges at the front. As it was said in "A Bronx Tale"… Wasted Talent.
Your post is spot-on. I am still puzzled by Frentzen, and also think Rubens was fantastic No 2, and close to MSC in his (RB's) fast, motivated years.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by POBRatings »

j man wrote:I never worked out if Frentzen was any good or not. His form over his career fluctuated more than any other driver I can think of, not so much from race to race but from season to season. He had a nightmarish 1997 season when the title was there for the taking. Curiously he then seemed more than a match for Villeneuve the following year. And then put up a much better title fight in a Jordan the year after???

The man was a total enigma.
Well summed up. Frentzen seemed similar to that other naturally fast, talented driver Reutemann. Just not able to apply their skills consistently each season. Pshycological weakness? Thinking too much?

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Elio de Angelis, he was better than Mansell over the 3 years they were teammates, also I would say he was a decent teammate for Senna. I'm guessing he was edged out of the Lotus team by Senna who thought that Lotus couldn't run 2 competitive cars.

I didn't even consider Montoya because he would refuse to be a #2 driver as opposed to de Angelis who was a consummate gentleman.
I don't doubt for a second that Elio was a gentleman, but he didn't hide the fact that he was bitterly disappointed by the team once Senna arrived. And I can't blame him; his 1993 season had been superb and demoting him was quite uncalled for.
Did he cause problems on the track though?
No, he left the team that demoted him.
Oh did Elio actually leave of his own accord?
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Fiki »

pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:Elio de Angelis, he was better than Mansell over the 3 years they were teammates, also I would say he was a decent teammate for Senna. I'm guessing he was edged out of the Lotus team by Senna who thought that Lotus couldn't run 2 competitive cars.

I didn't even consider Montoya because he would refuse to be a #2 driver as opposed to de Angelis who was a consummate gentleman.
I don't doubt for a second that Elio was a gentleman, but he didn't hide the fact that he was bitterly disappointed by the team once Senna arrived. And I can't blame him; his 1993 season had been superb and demoting him was quite uncalled for.
Did he cause problems on the track though?
No, he left the team that demoted him.
Oh did Elio actually leave of his own accord?
Yes he did, although I don't know what came first, his decision to leave Lotus, or Piquet leaving Brabham.
For all I know Senna may well have been right that Lotus didn't have the means to concentrate on two drivers. But the fact is that even concentrating on one only, they were unable to get much more out of the Lotus-Renault combination than de Angelis and Mansell were, bar some fantastic (but otherwise totally useless) pole positions.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Blake »

F1 MERCENARY wrote: Best #2 driver is not even listed and that would be Rubens. The most consistent guy in a top car over a considerable period of time and rare as it was, when he was in the zone, not even the greatest could touch him. If consistent points is what you are after, I can't think of anyone who could bring them as often as Rubens. Well, perhaps Massa but he's eerily similar to Rubens in most every regard. One of the best #2's but potentially a #1 when he's on it in the right equipment.
I agree wholeheartedly with both Rubens and Massa.

another of recent vintage that one could give consideration to would be Coulthard.


If one chooses to go WAY BACK... could there be a better #2 driver than Stirling Moss? Admittedly, he doesn't fit the criteria as stated in the OP, as he is certainly an All-time great, but he was a number two more than once in his career.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by pokerman »

Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:I don't doubt for a second that Elio was a gentleman, but he didn't hide the fact that he was bitterly disappointed by the team once Senna arrived. And I can't blame him; his 1993 season had been superb and demoting him was quite uncalled for.
Did he cause problems on the track though?
No, he left the team that demoted him.
Oh did Elio actually leave of his own accord?
Yes he did, although I don't know what came first, his decision to leave Lotus, or Piquet leaving Brabham.
For all I know Senna may well have been right that Lotus didn't have the means to concentrate on two drivers. But the fact is that even concentrating on one only, they were unable to get much more out of the Lotus-Renault combination than de Angelis and Mansell were, bar some fantastic (but otherwise totally useless) pole positions.
Thinking about it, it's quite incredible that a driver that had only done one season in F1 in a midfield team could then go to a team with the prestige of Lotus and dictate how the team is run.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

pokerman wrote:Thinking about it, it's quite incredible that a driver that had only done one season in F1 in a midfield team could then go to a team with the prestige of Lotus and dictate how the team is run.
And yet, his fanatics would have you believe he was nowhere near as calculating and agenda driven as his future teammate and arch nemesis and did all his talking on the track.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Donington93 »

I didn't list Rubens, Rosberg Jr., or DC, that was on purpose. Please think of it this way - you've got your number 1 and you have to sign one of these drivers to be your number 2...otherwise get a pay driver. Say Rubens, Roseberg Jr., Stirling Moss, and DC are all signed somewhere.

These are drivers that for the most part rarely get talked about. I purposely through Montoya in there as a number two to stir things up - as I agree he likely would not be accepting of that role, so you'd have to ask yourself is he so much better than the others that you'd take him as a #2 despite his not being accepting of that role, what would that do to team harmony?

I suppose it would depend on who your #1 was and what your car advantage or lack thereof was. Montoya would not get close IMO to Schumacher or Senna in the same equipment so he could go into the year thinking however he wanted - he would become de facto #2. I think Montoya would run Damon Hill or JV very hard for that #1 spot.

I agree the pole and my post aren't exactly lined up perfectly well. I just wanted to spark some discussion of something. I mean Alonso urges McLaren to improve or Kimi cautiously optimistic about 2016 are not really interesting to me.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Donington93 »

pokerman wrote: Thinking about it, it's quite incredible that a driver that had only done one season in F1 in a midfield team could then go to a team with the prestige of Lotus and dictate how the team is run.
Was Toleman really a mid-field team? I think of Lotus as more of a mid-field team in that era. I'd define a mid-field team as a team capable of scoring points in many races with some podiums here and there, but one that would need extraordinary circumstances to score wins. I think Toleman needed extraordinary circumstances to score podiums and was usually not in the points - so by my definition they were more of back marker.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Donington93 wrote:I didn't list Rubens, Rosberg Jr., or DC, that was on purpose.

These are drivers that for the most part rarely get talked about.
I haven't missed a race in almost 18 years and all three of these drivers got/get plenty of coverage. Rubens was just in Brazil and he was shown on live TV several times over the weekend. They got talked about PLENTY.
Donington93 wrote:Montoya would not get close IMO to Schumacher or Senna in the same equipment so he could go into the year thinking however he wanted - he would become de facto #2. I think Montoya would run Damon Hill or JV very hard for that #1 spot.
I saw the man drive in the flesh. He could have (similarly to Alonso) matched and even beaten either of them as well as Prost in equal machinery. He was that darned good and he generally gelled well with his teams just like all 3 I mentioned. Montoya in his prime was a guy no F1 driver would elect to have as a teammate because he would NEVER be anyone's doormat. Damon hill… Highly underrated. Got too late a start to have as long a career at the top like most others. If JV didn't become full of himself, he could have been one of the greatest ever. Sadly, he gave into the celebrity aspect and went for the money the moment the briefcase was presented to him and was never able to recover. Still today he's full of himself to the point he cannot see it. Sad really as he had astonishing ability and great potential.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by HS Thompson »

POBRatings wrote:OK I've gone for Montoya. My reason being he would not have let a number one destroy his spirit/speed as de Angelis and Frentzen allowed. Also think he was fastest on the list. My one reservation is that strategically Montoya could be self-damaging. He twice sulked and dropped far back into other, slower car's accidents. Still think he'd score more for a team than the others on the list.
Absolutely. Any driver who is willingly a #2 is a third rate driver in my book. JPM was a fiery driver, tremendously exciting to watch. A real shame that he didnt work out in F1.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by HS Thompson »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

I saw the man drive in the flesh. He could have (similarly to Alonso) matched and even beaten either of them as well as Prost in equal machinery. He was that darned good and he generally gelled well with his teams just like all 3 I mentioned. Montoya in his prime was a guy no F1 driver would elect to have as a teammate because he would NEVER be anyone's doormat.
JPM reminds me of Lewis Hamilton to some extent.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by RaggedMan »

Man, you all make it sound like JPM is dead or retired. He almost won the Indy title last season!
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by POBRatings »

I think Montoya and Ralf Schumacher were both vastly under-rated. It seems many did not like Ralf or JP as people, which downgraded perceptions of their abilities.
In their four seasons as Williams-BMW team-mates, according to my calculations, Ralf was 0.3 faster than rookie JP in 2001, but thereafter the two were so close-matched, within 0.1 of each other until 2004. In those three seasons they raced at about the same gap from the fastest driver (a relation of Ralf's ;) )as Rosberg and Ricciardo did in 2015. This is not to say that Monty and Ralf rate exactly the same as Nico and Dan. It is a measure of their competitiveness within their own era. Drivers across eras cannot be directly compared. There was a piece on my blog in Oct 2011 comparing Montoya to fifties driver Gonzalez, comparing their driver-ratings each season.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Fiki »

Donington93 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Thinking about it, it's quite incredible that a driver that had only done one season in F1 in a midfield team could then go to a team with the prestige of Lotus and dictate how the team is run.
Was Toleman really a mid-field team? I think of Lotus as more of a mid-field team in that era. I'd define a mid-field team as a team capable of scoring points in many races with some podiums here and there, but one that would need extraordinary circumstances to score wins. I think Toleman needed extraordinary circumstances to score podiums and was usually not in the points - so by my definition they were more of back marker.
In 1984, de Angelis had finished 3rd in the drivers' championship. You don't do that in a mid-field team, unless you consider every other team than McLaren as mid-field or backmarker. So I agree it was a serious step up for Senna.

Toleman were a mid-field team, though they punched well above their weight, and were well on the way up already with Derek Warwick driving for them. I remember thinking that a major manufacturer was bound to either buy them, or their engine privateer. They became Benetton instead.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

POBRatings wrote:I think Montoya and Ralf Schumacher were both vastly under-rated. It seems many did not like Ralf or JP as people, which downgraded perceptions of their abilities.
In their four seasons as Williams-BMW team-mates, according to my calculations, Ralf was 0.3 faster than rookie JP in 2001, but thereafter the two were so close-matched, within 0.1 of each other until 2004. In those three seasons they raced at about the same gap from the fastest driver (a relation of Ralf's ;) )as Rosberg and Ricciardo did in 2015. This is not to say that Monty and Ralf rate exactly the same as Nico and Dan. It is a measure of their competitiveness within their own era. Drivers across eras cannot be directly compared. There was a piece on my blog in Oct 2011 comparing Montoya to fifties driver Gonzalez, comparing their driver-ratings each season.
Fully agree with this. Ralf was constantly in the shadow of big brother Michael but when the car was right even Big Brother had it coming. Sad he didn't last but politics and situations cause this to happen at times in F1. That does not diminish his excellence behind the wheel. Wish he'd been given a shot at a contender instead of going Toyota where F1 careers went to die miserable deaths.

I'd venture to say Ralf and JPM were equally regarded and supported by their team to the point neither received preferential treatment unless something went wrong with the other.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Placid »

He is so far the only active driver that won the 500 twice and met a Prince in Monaco.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by HawaiiF1Fan »

I've not really had the opportunity to see the bulk of the drivers named, but my choice is JPM. I'm talking about the JPM speed of the early '00s, but with the patience and intelligence of today and not the hot head of yesteryear.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by pokerman »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Donington93 wrote:I didn't list Rubens, Rosberg Jr., or DC, that was on purpose.

These are drivers that for the most part rarely get talked about.
I haven't missed a race in almost 18 years and all three of these drivers got/get plenty of coverage. Rubens was just in Brazil and he was shown on live TV several times over the weekend. They got talked about PLENTY.
Donington93 wrote:Montoya would not get close IMO to Schumacher or Senna in the same equipment so he could go into the year thinking however he wanted - he would become de facto #2. I think Montoya would run Damon Hill or JV very hard for that #1 spot.
I saw the man drive in the flesh. He could have (similarly to Alonso) matched and even beaten either of them as well as Prost in equal machinery. He was that darned good and he generally gelled well with his teams just like all 3 I mentioned. Montoya in his prime was a guy no F1 driver would elect to have as a teammate because he would NEVER be anyone's doormat. Damon hill… Highly underrated. Got too late a start to have as long a career at the top like most others. If JV didn't become full of himself, he could have been one of the greatest ever. Sadly, he gave into the celebrity aspect and went for the money the moment the briefcase was presented to him and was never able to recover. Still today he's full of himself to the point he cannot see it. Sad really as he had astonishing ability and great potential.
Montoya basically got his butt kicked by Kimi and it was in the midst of this butt kicking that he left F1.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by hittheapex »

I can't choose between de Angelis and Montoya.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Donington93 »

I meant the drivers in the poll do not get mentioned a lot. Not the drivers who some have mentioned who were not in the poll.

POB raises some fair points about Toleman and Lotus and I think based on those I've changed my mind.

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by RaggedMan »

Donington93 wrote:I meant the drivers in the poll do not get mentioned a lot. Not the drivers who some have mentioned who were not in the poll.

POB raises some fair points about Toleman and Lotus and I think based on those I've changed my mind.
This is the internet. Changing your mind after hearing a well reasoned argument isn't allowed.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by HS Thompson »

RaggedMan wrote:Man, you all make it sound like JPM is dead or retired. He almost won the Indy title last season!
Exactly!

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by Kev627 »

If Montoya is considered a number 1 driver by many who / what sort of driver would make his perfect number 2?

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by hittheapex »

Kev627 wrote:If Montoya is considered a number 1 driver by many who / what sort of driver would make his perfect number 2?
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by OutKast »

HHF was more than fast enough, I thought he could have done something special, a la the 1999 season, but as much as I enjoyed him. Something was never right with him and I think he was more than a match for Villeneuve back in '97, but Williams isn't exactly known for cuddling drivers. Maybe, that did effect him mentally, but who knows?

He still was a solid driver for Sauber and Arrows in the later part of his career. Something tells me that '97 was essential the "nail in the coffin" so to speak for Frentzen. There were many of occasions where he would split teams in qualifying, but I'm not as sure now.

I think he had all-time great potential, but it does not workout like that many of times.
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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by POBRatings »

OutKast wrote:HHF was more than fast enough, I thought he could have done something special, a la the 1999 season, but as much as I enjoyed him. Something was never right with him and I think he was more than a match for Villeneuve back in '97, but Williams isn't exactly known for cuddling drivers. Maybe, that did effect him mentally, but who knows?

He still was a solid driver for Sauber and Arrows in the later part of his career. Something tells me that '97 was essential the "nail in the coffin" so to speak for Frentzen. There were many of occasions where he would split teams in qualifying, but I'm not as sure now.

I think he had all-time great potential, but it does not workout like that many of times.
:thumbup:

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Re: Boring Time in Motorsports - Driver Comparisons

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Kev627 wrote:If Montoya is considered a number 1 driver by many who / what sort of driver would make his perfect number 2?
If you know Montoya, he wouldn't want a #2 and would welcome a challenge as that is what he lives for. Competition.

In his younger years he had a level of self belief that he'd prefer and possibly insist on equal footing from the team and may the best man come out on top. In his mind that meant him and it's something you don't always see. Most believe in themselves greatly but most will concede they may not have the package or the stuff to overcome their equipment's shortcomings, but Montoya believed he could make the difference and often he did. I find Hamilton, Alonso & Vettel think and carry themselves in this very manor and it's what separates them from he rest.
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