Official Rally Thread
Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:03 pm
Were North One Sport promoting the text element of this post?rife_hypocricy wrote:
yeah sorry, their deal fell through and someone else has to pick up the piecesBalibari wrote:Were North One Sport promoting the text element of this post?rife_hypocricy wrote:
I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.
Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.
They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.
Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.
Hey, whats with the hate for the WRC? The skill of the drivers is equal to that of F1 (even though it is a very different skill set). The WRC is sometimes more exciting to watch IMO, (when the TV coverage is up to par), though a good gp trounces a rally any day. Also the technologies developed in WRC are very quickly adopted onto road cars. You can list the truly epic road cars that have come about from the WRC over the years, you cannot get an F1 car on the road, but I could buy an Escort Cossie or an Evo tomorrow! Also if i wanted to go single seat racing, I would have to get into formula ford, which is mightily expensive. To go rallying, I need a cheap hatchback with a rollcage.sandman1347 wrote:WRC 2012? Let me spoil the ending for you. Loeb wins. He wins every year. Don't you realize that by now?
I don't hate rally. I actually enjoy it but the championship has become a joke. Loeb is just too good. Even Schumi never won 8 consecutive titles.silverstone24 wrote:Hey, whats with the hate for the WRC? The skill of the drivers is equal to that of F1 (even though it is a very different skill set). The WRC is sometimes more exciting to watch IMO, (when the TV coverage is up to par), though a good gp trounces a rally any day. Also the technologies developed in WRC are very quickly adopted onto road cars. You can list the truly epic road cars that have come about from the WRC over the years, you cannot get an F1 car on the road, but I could buy an Escort Cossie or an Evo tomorrow! Also if i wanted to go single seat racing, I would have to get into formula ford, which is mightily expensive. To go rallying, I need a cheap hatchback with a rollcage.sandman1347 wrote:WRC 2012? Let me spoil the ending for you. Loeb wins. He wins every year. Don't you realize that by now?
Yes, Loeb has enjoyed a domination that has made the championships dull, but wasn't there that bloke who did the same to F1 a few years back...
Yeah, and Kovalainen beat Loeb in WRC car. He also beat Scumacher in a Ferrari.silverstone24 wrote: I would also like to say that when Loeb was at his best, he was arguably the greatest motor sport driver to have ever lived. Feel free to disagree, but he once destroyed an in-prime Schumacher at the race of champions.
I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).Bosse wrote:They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.
Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.
The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.
Vers wrote:Yeah, and Kovalainen beat Loeb in WRC car. He also beat Scumacher in a Ferrari.silverstone24 wrote: I would also like to say that when Loeb was at his best, he was arguably the greatest motor sport driver to have ever lived. Feel free to disagree, but he once destroyed an in-prime Schumacher at the race of champions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svsJd4vWGtY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ksBP5aazmM
Race of champions means absolutely nothing.
So you are saying he's by far the best driver ever to touch the wheel of a rally car? Because that what soon to be 9 back to back championships make it seem.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).Bosse wrote:They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.
Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.
The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.
No Loeb is Schumacher, super precise, built team around him, an entirely new breed of driver. Ogier is Senna, talent and flair.Bosse wrote:So you are saying he's by far the best driver ever to touch the wheel of a rally car? Because that what soon to be 9 back to back championships make it seem.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).Bosse wrote:They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.
Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.
The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.
For me it's more case of incapable opposition after Grönholm. There have only been two factory teams thus his competition has been limited to two opponents (Sordo was never even remotely a challenger) who for different reasons (other crashing out every second race other being plain slow). Would he be 8 times champion had there been Ogier instead of Hirvonen? Maybe and most likely not.
It is possible though that both Ogier and Loeb are what Senna was to F1, but I find that highly unlikely. Instead the more plausible answer is that Loeb is one of the greats, yes, but not unbeatable and the state of WRC has been a big factor for his godlike statistics.
True, in many ways he's similar to Schumacher. But having Hirvonen as the biggest rival is like Schumacher would have had, instead of Alonso, fought against Fisichella in 2006. Ogier for me is way more Alonso than Senna.silverstone24 wrote:No Loeb is Schumacher, super precise, built team around him, an entirely new breed of driver. Ogier is Senna, talent and flair.
It is possible that the WRC is in a state because of Loeb's success making it predictable and sending fans and thus manufacturers away from the sport.
That he was able to beat Solberg and Gronholm, in their primes and when the cars were tightly matched, should say enough, really, but even after Gronholm left, he had to fight. He was 5 points behind Hirvonen with two rallies to go in 2009, back when 10 points was a win. Loeb HAD to win the final two rallies, and this was after Mikko reeled off four wins in a row (and 5 Ford wins in a row thanks to Latvala's win in Italy). Loeb stayed composed and got the job done and beat Mikko by one point. Loeb had to fight for the title 2 seasons out of 4 after Gronholm left, and two seasons out of four before Gronholm left. It's easy to forget how much Loeb had to fight to win 8 titles. It could've been less if he wasn't so damn good.Bosse wrote:So you are saying he's by far the best driver ever to touch the wheel of a rally car? Because that what soon to be 9 back to back championships make it seem.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).Bosse wrote:They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.SnakeSVT2003 wrote:I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.
Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.
The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.
For me it's more case of incapable opposition after Grönholm. There have only been two factory teams thus his competition has been limited to two opponents (Sordo was never even remotely a challenger) who for different reasons (other crashing out every second race other being plain slow). Would he be 8 times champion had there been Ogier instead of Hirvonen? Maybe and most likely not.
It is possible though that both Ogier and Loeb are what Senna was to F1, but I find that highly unlikely. Instead the more plausible answer is that Loeb is one of the greats, yes, but not unbeatable and the state of WRC has been a big factor for his godlike statistics.
http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=70&filtr= says he went off the raod..rife_hypocricy wrote:Rally portugal.
loeb stopped on stage 3
it was a blind right-hand turn on a crest, he misunderstood the note and went left... oopsRealien wrote:rife_hypocricy wrote:Rally portugal.
loeb stopped on stage 3 says he went off the road..
Please, don't jinx him!Bosse wrote:This rally summarizes Hirvonen perfectly: slow but steady. Wins races where everyone else have made big mistakes. He's the only one left standing now.
Citroen appealed against the disqualification... Disqualification that seems very strange, because the turbo is the same on all WRC cars, and the clutch disc just had no holes, so was heavier. Do they want to help Ford not to be out of contention for the title as soon as the 4th rally, though Ford did all they had to do to miss the chance Loeb's crash offered them ? Is WRC just a F1 subdivision ?phfft... wrote:Autosport is reporting that Hirvonen has been disqualified for technical infringements, Ostberg is handed the win and Loeb stays ahead in the championship. To repeat my earlier sentiment, what a bizarre rally!