planetf1.com

rife_hypocricy wrote:

Were North One Sport promoting the text element of this post?

Balibari wrote:

rife_hypocricy wrote:

Were North One Sport promoting the text element of this post?

yeah sorry, their deal fell through and someone else has to pick up the pieces

mexico rally on


"The organisers have decided to cancel SS9 Ortega (23.69kms) due to security reasons."

"Stage cancelled by event organisers on security grounds after rocks were thrown at a competitor on the first run through the stage on Friday morning."

Probably this sellout

"Rally Guanajuato México 2012 regret that car number 8, driven by Thierry Neuville and Nicolas Gilsoul, was struck by a rock thrown at the car on Stage 5 Ortega, this morning. Both driver and co-driver were fortunately not harmed and are continuing in the event.

The Organisers of the Rally are quite clear that this dangerous behaviour by an irresponsible individual is completely unacceptable. To ensure the safety of the competitors the second running of that stage (Ortega SS9) has been cancelled.

We urge all spectators to support us to ensure the safe running of this World Championship event."

latvala rolled

edit: out

Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

Sebastien Loeb wraps up another Rally Mexico win

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97978

Pos Driver Team/Car Time/Gap
1. Sebastien Loeb Citroen 4h15m32.7s
2. Mikko Hirvonen Citroen + 42.4s
3. Petter Solberg Ford + 2m11.4s
4. Mads Ostberg Adapta Ford + 4m51.5s
5. Ott Tanak M-Sport Ford + 5m02.6s
6. Nasser Al-Attiyah Qatar Citroen + 6m41.4s
7. Armindo Araujo Portugal Mini + 12m46.9s
8. Sebastien Ogier VW Skoda + 14m57.8s
9. Ken Block Monster Ford + 22m26.8s
10. Ricardo Trivino M-Sport Ford + 23m30.7s

Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.




Edit: The bold doesn't really show that well, so I went back and made the letters bigger.

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.

They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.

The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.

WRC 2012? Let me spoil the ending for you. Loeb wins. He wins every year. Don't you realize that by now?

sandman1347 wrote:WRC 2012? Let me spoil the ending for you. Loeb wins. He wins every year. Don't you realize that by now?

Hey, whats with the hate for the WRC? The skill of the drivers is equal to that of F1 (even though it is a very different skill set). The WRC is sometimes more exciting to watch IMO, (when the TV coverage is up to par), though a good gp trounces a rally any day. Also the technologies developed in WRC are very quickly adopted onto road cars. You can list the truly epic road cars that have come about from the WRC over the years, you cannot get an F1 car on the road, but I could buy an Escort Cossie or an Evo tomorrow! Also if i wanted to go single seat racing, I would have to get into formula ford, which is mightily expensive. To go rallying, I need a cheap hatchback with a rollcage.

Yes, Loeb has enjoyed a domination that has made the championships dull, but wasn't there that bloke who did the same to F1 a few years back...

silverstone24 wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:WRC 2012? Let me spoil the ending for you. Loeb wins. He wins every year. Don't you realize that by now?

Hey, whats with the hate for the WRC? The skill of the drivers is equal to that of F1 (even though it is a very different skill set). The WRC is sometimes more exciting to watch IMO, (when the TV coverage is up to par), though a good gp trounces a rally any day. Also the technologies developed in WRC are very quickly adopted onto road cars. You can list the truly epic road cars that have come about from the WRC over the years, you cannot get an F1 car on the road, but I could buy an Escort Cossie or an Evo tomorrow! Also if i wanted to go single seat racing, I would have to get into formula ford, which is mightily expensive. To go rallying, I need a cheap hatchback with a rollcage.

Yes, Loeb has enjoyed a domination that has made the championships dull, but wasn't there that bloke who did the same to F1 a few years back...

I don't hate rally. I actually enjoy it but the championship has become a joke. Loeb is just too good. Even Schumi never won 8 consecutive titles.

All signs point towards this year being number 9 and I don't see any signs of Loeb declining as a driver at all. I don't care what sport you're talking about, when someone wins the title for a decade straight, there is a problem with the competitive balance. WRC desperately needs a driver to come along and beat Loeb just to make thinkgs interesting.

Loeb got a competitor in Ogier. He was the guy I beleived could beat Loeb with last year's experience...But, now he isn't in good car anymore...Seems easy this year...!!

I'm gonna put my neck on the line here and say Ogier is as good as or better than Loeb. He was running third or fourth in a fwd s2000 car at the monte this year before crashing out. He just got 8th at Mexico. That was above ken block (who isn't a proper WRC driver, true) in a full fat WRC car. That's like scoring points in F1 while driving a GP2 car.

I would also like to say that when Loeb was at his best, he was arguably the greatest motor sport driver to have ever lived. Feel free to disagree, but he once destroyed an in-prime Schumacher at the race of champions.

silverstone24 wrote: I would also like to say that when Loeb was at his best, he was arguably the greatest motor sport driver to have ever lived. Feel free to disagree, but he once destroyed an in-prime Schumacher at the race of champions.

Yeah, and Kovalainen beat Loeb in WRC car. He also beat Scumacher in a Ferrari.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svsJd4vWGtY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ksBP5aazmM

Race of champions means absolutely nothing.

Bosse wrote:

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.

They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.

The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.

I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).

Vers wrote:

silverstone24 wrote: I would also like to say that when Loeb was at his best, he was arguably the greatest motor sport driver to have ever lived. Feel free to disagree, but he once destroyed an in-prime Schumacher at the race of champions.

Yeah, and Kovalainen beat Loeb in WRC car. He also beat Scumacher in a Ferrari.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svsJd4vWGtY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ksBP5aazmM

Race of champions means absolutely nothing.

Also, Schumacher beat Loeb in the "World Champions Challenge" in the 2004 Race of Champions. It was a best-of-3 and Schumacher won two of them.

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.

They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.

The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.

I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).

So you are saying he's by far the best driver ever to touch the wheel of a rally car? Because that what soon to be 9 back to back championships make it seem.

For me it's more case of incapable opposition after Grönholm. There have only been two factory teams thus his competition has been limited to two opponents (Sordo was never even remotely a challenger) who for different reasons (other crashing out every second race other being plain slow). Would he be 8 times champion had there been Ogier instead of Hirvonen? Maybe and most likely not.

It is possible though that both Ogier and Loeb are what Senna was to F1, but I find that highly unlikely. Instead the more plausible answer is that Loeb is one of the greats, yes, but not unbeatable and the state of WRC has been a big factor for his godlike statistics.

Bosse wrote:

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.

They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.

The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.

I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).

So you are saying he's by far the best driver ever to touch the wheel of a rally car? Because that what soon to be 9 back to back championships make it seem.

For me it's more case of incapable opposition after Grönholm. There have only been two factory teams thus his competition has been limited to two opponents (Sordo was never even remotely a challenger) who for different reasons (other crashing out every second race other being plain slow). Would he be 8 times champion had there been Ogier instead of Hirvonen? Maybe and most likely not.

It is possible though that both Ogier and Loeb are what Senna was to F1, but I find that highly unlikely. Instead the more plausible answer is that Loeb is one of the greats, yes, but not unbeatable and the state of WRC has been a big factor for his godlike statistics.

No Loeb is Schumacher, super precise, built team around him, an entirely new breed of driver. Ogier is Senna, talent and flair.

It is possible that the WRC is in a state because of Loeb's success making it predictable and sending fans and thus manufacturers away from the sport.

silverstone24 wrote:No Loeb is Schumacher, super precise, built team around him, an entirely new breed of driver. Ogier is Senna, talent and flair.

It is possible that the WRC is in a state because of Loeb's success making it predictable and sending fans and thus manufacturers away from the sport.

True, in many ways he's similar to Schumacher. But having Hirvonen as the biggest rival is like Schumacher would have had, instead of Alonso, fought against Fisichella in 2006. Ogier for me is way more Alonso than Senna.

Also Latvala has been the fastest driver this season (and most of the last season, even in tarmac!). So Loeb is not even dominating but still getting handed the title.

I'm not trying to belittle him by any means, he's one of the best ever, but is shown maybe in a bit too bright light due to such dominant statistics with no opposition and cars being so reliable.

Bosse wrote:

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:

SnakeSVT2003 wrote:

Bosse wrote:Everything is so easy for Loeb now. Ogier could match him but no, he's running S2000 this year. Latvala has dominated in speed this year but he will never win the championship because of the mistakes. Hirvonen is slow but never ever makes mistakes, a perfect 2nd driver for Citroen.

Loeb is good but he has had it way too easy. After Grönholm he has literally had no competition. It's very telling if someone like Hirvonen has been his biggest rival for the last 5 years. Dark times for WRC.

I disagree. Hirvonen makes quite a few mistakes, but they're usually small enough that he can almost always continue in the rally.

They are small ones because he doesn't take risks. It's annoying me. For me a Finnish driver goes balls out not slowly and safely just hoping for others to make mistakes. He just lacks the speed. It almost paid off in 2009 when he nearly won the championship just because of Loeb's own mistakes, the point system and for the fact that there were only 2 teams in the entire series. I was so relived that he did not.

The sorry state of the WRC saddens me. Latvala has the speed, and I admire it, but he cannot handle the pressure. Ogier is not competing in the championship this year and others are no match for Loeb. Hirvonen has returned to the role he is perfect in - being a lapboy for a champion. He's not going to rival him but he's still fast enough to bag good positions. Loeb is not as good as many have painted him to be (like Hirvonen but mostly to bolster his own image), Ogier proved that to me. Obviously it is possible that they are both the best drivers of the century and it was just blind luck they ended up being born roughly at the same time. But that scenario sounds pretty unlikely for me. Loeb is a great champion but his soon to be 9 titles are not telling the entire truth.

I think Loeb is every bit as good as he seems. The way he won Rally Finland last year was incredible. I expect that sort of performance from a local like Gronholm or Latvala or Hirvonen, yet it came from Loeb. I also think Ogier is just as good as him, maybe even better, and that he should've gone to Ford (even though I like that Solberg has a factory ride again).

So you are saying he's by far the best driver ever to touch the wheel of a rally car? Because that what soon to be 9 back to back championships make it seem.

For me it's more case of incapable opposition after Grönholm. There have only been two factory teams thus his competition has been limited to two opponents (Sordo was never even remotely a challenger) who for different reasons (other crashing out every second race other being plain slow). Would he be 8 times champion had there been Ogier instead of Hirvonen? Maybe and most likely not.

It is possible though that both Ogier and Loeb are what Senna was to F1, but I find that highly unlikely. Instead the more plausible answer is that Loeb is one of the greats, yes, but not unbeatable and the state of WRC has been a big factor for his godlike statistics.

That he was able to beat Solberg and Gronholm, in their primes and when the cars were tightly matched, should say enough, really, but even after Gronholm left, he had to fight. He was 5 points behind Hirvonen with two rallies to go in 2009, back when 10 points was a win. Loeb HAD to win the final two rallies, and this was after Mikko reeled off four wins in a row (and 5 Ford wins in a row thanks to Latvala's win in Italy). Loeb stayed composed and got the job done and beat Mikko by one point. Loeb had to fight for the title 2 seasons out of 4 after Gronholm left, and two seasons out of four before Gronholm left. It's easy to forget how much Loeb had to fight to win 8 titles. It could've been less if he wasn't so damn good.

I'm not saying Loeb is BY FAR the best ever, but I do believe he is the best ever and that few drivers in WRC history can challenge him.

Rally portugal.

loeb stopped on stage 3

rife_hypocricy wrote:Rally portugal.

loeb stopped on stage 3

http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=70&filtr= says he went off the raod..

Realien wrote:

rife_hypocricy wrote:Rally portugal.

loeb stopped on stage 3 says he went off the road..

it was a blind right-hand turn on a crest, he misunderstood the note and went left... oops

What a bizarre rally. Everyone seems to have an off day. Hoping for Latvala to capitalize, just to keep the championship exciting.

Yep, come on Latvala, this was a godsend for him. He's the only one who can challenge Loeb this year but he really needs to keep winning and stop crashing now.

Edit. Rofl, Latvala went out and not sure if he can continue the race. Loeb must be laughing now, he doesn't even need to try!

Jinxed it.

FFS, Jari-Matti, haven't we been through this already? Haven't we discussed this? I know you enjoy the woods but this is ridiculous. To be the next Colin McRae you still need to keep it on the road often enough to win the championship. How embarrassing this must be for your boss and your other supporters. Gah.

There's an absolutely brilliant quote from the Ford boss:

"After Jari went off, Petter had 20 seconds on Mikko, he could have backed off more. It's just such a waste of a turnaround in the championship, we had it on a silver tray and we have put the tray in the bin and then buried the bin."

It's going to be my new way to describe something going wrong I think

Oh my, what a rally of wasted opportunities for some.. Latvala and Solberg off while Loeb was off is completely wrong way to behave in the situation.

The Ford Team must be kicking themselves. All they had to do was finish. Even when Loeb gifts them a chance to get back into the championship, they still drop the ball. Just give him his championship trophy right now and get it over with.

The funny thing is that just before the start of the rally, Loeb said in an interview that having night stages on such roads was crazy because there is so much dust that it's like driving in thick smog, and anyone could lose 2 minutes on the opening driver in a 30 km stage, or bin the car without even driving fast... Which he did as soon as possible.

Now if I was the boss of the Ford team, I would spank Latvala in public and replace him by someone a bit less prone to crash...

This rally summarizes Hirvonen perfectly: slow but steady. Wins races where everyone else have made big mistakes. He's the only one left standing now.

Bosse wrote:This rally summarizes Hirvonen perfectly: slow but steady. Wins races where everyone else have made big mistakes. He's the only one left standing now.

Please, don't jinx him!

It's possible we could have a 7th different driver on the podium this year if Novikov stays put. Not bad for just 4 rallies.

Autosport is reporting that Hirvonen has been disqualified for technical infringements, Ostberg is handed the win and Loeb stays ahead in the championship. To repeat my earlier sentiment, what a bizarre rally!

phfft... wrote:Autosport is reporting that Hirvonen has been disqualified for technical infringements, Ostberg is handed the win and Loeb stays ahead in the championship. To repeat my earlier sentiment, what a bizarre rally!

Citroen appealed against the disqualification... Disqualification that seems very strange, because the turbo is the same on all WRC cars, and the clutch disc just had no holes, so was heavier. Do they want to help Ford not to be out of contention for the title as soon as the 4th rally, though Ford did all they had to do to miss the chance Loeb's crash offered them ? Is WRC just a F1 subdivision ?

Bloody disgrace...