planetf1.com

I am starting this thread so that all of us die hard F-1 fans from all over the world can brainstorm on how we want future races broadcast on the internet. I am really getting tired of having to pay a large monthly sum to DirecTV here in the states so I can watch the races on NBC sports.

I would like a app that goes for the entire year, starting on Jaunary 1, and ending on December 31st, it should carry all race weekends live practices, quali, race, all post race coverage etc. It should also have a on demand playback so that people on the other side of the world from the race can watch on there schedule. These races should be kept on demand for the entire season, so we can re watch races at our will during the off season, or summer break. The commentaters can be choosen from all of the world broadcasters and we as F1's core supporters should have some input on the decision of who is hired each year (contracts only should last at most a couple of years). That way we get the best there is, possibly even a revolving system as there are a lot of great ones out there, including former drivers, mechanics, and owners.

There should be all manner of streaming data that you can choose to follow, picking drivers, cars, teams, camera's, in car camera's etc.

They should be commercial free, with a segment being paid for by one company and there name and logo on the top or bottom corner, like they do in Football/ Soccer.

Also there should be a premium package that has old races available on demand, and older documentaries, interviews etc.

For this application I would be willing to pay $500 or more a year for it, which is still cheaper than what I have to pay DirecTV just to watch the races. So it is a bargain at that price for me. I know that Bernie will never go for this type of setup as he became a Billionare from TV rights, but he has to retire soon, and his replacement better be savy in the new ways of the iternet broadcasting. I hope who ever that is will be reading this forum, and dont take there core fans for granted as Indy car did in the 90's.

Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

minchy wrote:Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

This, really.

Something like the WEC would be a good start.

You can watch the main feed or select from different cockpit cams. The video can be full screen or in a smaller window with live timing displayed as well.

Can I make a suggestion of combining F1 with other series? The recording kit has to be at the track to film F1, so why not include the feeder series and maybe LMP?

It may even be worth their while running a series during the F1 closed season to keep fresh content on the channel. Either move one or start a new one specifically for that reason. Classic F1 maybe, or invitation races?

$500/20=$25. I can pay like 35 or a bit more for one year of Eurosport player where I can watch a lot more sports (cycling, tennis, winter sports, snooker athletics, motorsport including WEC and WTCC etc). I guess such a app can work in some markets and it would only appeal die hard F1 fans.

minchy wrote:Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

Either this, or an annual fee like NFL. But either way they should have:
Every session live.
Every press conference run as part of the weekend live.
Archive of the above for atleast the current season's events
Accessibility through PC, Mobile, Tablet and Games Consoles (though this is all pretty standard for any online streaming service now).

That is the absolute core of the service. I'd also expect some extra stuff, perhaps including:
I'd think they would put some old content up, perhaps the season review DVDs?
Overtaking / highlight packages
Legends interviews
Some technical analysis type stuff
Perhaps coverage going back a few seasons
Historical documentaries or discussions (the BBC's Hunt vs Lauda doc was one of the most interesting things I have watched in a long time)




I pay £100 a year for my NFL Gamepass access so I can always watch my team and the games I want. I get access to several years of games and they come in full broadcast (~3 hr) and condensed highlights (20-40 mins) flavours. My only gripe is the near constant advert breaks in NFL means you end up looking at a "We'll be right back" banner a lot. But as a service I can't fault it, I do think it's pretty damned nice. I also get Hard Knocks (a docu following a team and covering a lot of backrrom stuff), NFL network (like news 24 for NFL), several seasons of "A football life" (1 hr documentaries about players past and present). I really, really rate this service, though I haven't seen what the other major sports have done for their online services as I'm not a big fan of anything other than NFL and F1.


Price is obviously important. I do think if this service was dropped tomorrow it would be like £20/ month or the like. That's too expensive for my taste. I'd have to say £100 is probably close to my limit, though could perhaps justify £150 to myself. But for that kind of money, I think I'd need the service to be pretty damned good.

minchy wrote:Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

That would be great. Then I could cancel my Sky package... Which is why it won't happen, at least not in core markets or without a complete restructuring of TV rights.

wolfticket wrote:

minchy wrote:Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

That would be great. Then I could cancel my Sky package... Which is why it won't happen, at least not in core markets or without a complete restructuring of TV rights.

We just 'cut the cord' and I'm going to miss watching F1 on NBCSN here in the States. It's just not worth paying over $60 extra a month to watch F1 and Premier league games anymore.

I really like what the WWE has done as well, this is a great model that F1, Premier League, and other sports need to start following. The WWE has 1.3 million subscribers last time I checked, and they're already profitable.

I'm hoping next months Apple TV Reboot is going to be a game changer. A lot of rumors pointing it to have a better User interface than it's competitors, a gaming platform, and a possible a la carte streaming subscription in the horizon. This may be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back...

shay550 wrote:

wolfticket wrote:

minchy wrote:Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

That would be great. Then I could cancel my Sky package... Which is why it won't happen, at least not in core markets or without a complete restructuring of TV rights.

We just 'cut the cord' and I'm going to miss watching F1 on NBCSN here in the States. It's just not worth paying over $60 extra a month to watch F1 and Premier league games anymore.

I really like what the WWE has done as well, this is a great model that F1, Premier League, and other sports need to start following. The WWE has 1.3 million subscribers last time I checked, and they're already profitable.

I'm hoping next months Apple TV Reboot is going to be a game changer. A lot of rumors pointing it to have a better User interface than it's competitors, a gaming platform, and a possible a la carte streaming subscription in the horizon. This may be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back...

I surely hope so, I only watch about 5% of the channels I pay for, a la carte would be so much better, and cheaper.

This would be F1s greatest opportunity at growth into the younger market and is probably exactly what they need to turn around their plummeting viewer numbers and popularity. But Bernie will never do it because in his mind young people "can't buy anything". He fails to grasp that he isn't trying to sell anything to the viewers, he is selling the viewers themselves to outside companies. With a subscription service F1 would have the ability to sell F1 directly to the public. It's ludicrous that it isn't already happening.

People find ways around the exorbitant price gouging anyway. Myself for example basically watch F1, all sessions, for $11 per month. I've got a deal going with a mate at work Where I use his foxtel Go subscription and in exchange he uses my Netflix account. Both of us now get basically unlimited access to practically everything for a reasonable price and F1 is only getting half the profits it would be if they weren't pretending is still the 90's

its ok for classic races. but fom only took over broadcasting in 96. with fuji tv hosting the japaneese gp even later than that.

Millions and millions of people had sky long before the f1, infact i remember paying for F1Digital+ on top of my subscription. None of these people would cancel and move to an exclusive app, the cost in streaming hardware and bandwidth would be so ridicules' it wont happen anytime soon, Im sure the equivalent of now tv around the world will soon shiw the F1 on weekend passes'

They only set up an official YouTube channel 5 months ago so you are going to be waiting a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time to get any kind of streaming service even if Bernie is no longer in charge seeming we have no idea what kind of contracts he has set in place.

colinp wrote:Millions and millions of people had sky long before the f1, infact i remember paying for F1Digital+ on top of my subscription. None of these people would cancel and move to an exclusive app, the cost in streaming hardware and bandwidth would be so ridicules' it wont happen anytime soon, Im sure the equivalent of now tv around the world will soon shiw the F1 on weekend passes'

Most people who already watch f1 will already have the necessary equipment to use a streaming service and the bandwidth argument seems a bit redundant as most people will also have a fast enough internet as well, regardless of watching f1 or not.

As you said, there were millions of people who had Sky in the UK before f1 went to them. And there were very few that subscribed to Sky soley because of f1 since then. If FOM are worried that the people who already have a subscription tv service won't pay extra for a service from them, they should look at how many people who already have these services pay extra for things like Neflix, WWE, NLF etc. Because at the moment, the people who have services like Sky are generally those who can afford it, and an extra £10 a month or so wouldn't be much to them, but to those who can't afford things like Sky, £10 is a much better and more affordable than £39-£60 a month for subscription tv.

Just as an example to those who dismiss online streaming as wasteful and not worth the effort to F1 here are some numbers randomly plucked from the interwebs.

Major league baseball, which is basically an American only pass time and is widely regarded as one of the worst spectator sports ever devised earns $265 million per year from its online streaming.

As of Q1 2015 WWE which was as far as I knew only followed by 13-16 year old boys has 1.36 million paying subscribers. If F1 only attracted as many viewers as this terrible tv drama and charged a reasonable sum of $10 per month they would be pulling in an extra $163,200,000. If they charged $10 per race which is still probably less than they would in reality that is $272 million. As a comparison the UK tv rights deal is estimated to be around $110 million

OK, an out of the box alternative.

A Bernie (Buy Every Race Now Incase I Expire) otherwise called a "dongle".Encoded to F1 inc, or what ever, and you put it where you like.

In the TV, the Computer, Tab or what ever you use to watch F1.

They have full control of content (including advertising) and we have full control of how and when we watch.


AH, you say, what about those without broadband? No problem, include the sim in the dongle.

Possibly make it available in two (or more) flavours being, Qualli and race only, or unlimited with content all week.

Casual enthusiasts go for race only, us, we go the whole hog

If they can give the lower option as a single payment per race ( just text RACE to xxxxxxx) and cheaper than a full year with Sky, they will collect extra here too.

Oh yes, and you can but a magic box to take to the race with you (extra of course)


Are you watching Berni? Look ££££££$$$$$$$$$$$

Blackhander wrote:Just as an example to those who dismiss online streaming as wasteful and not worth the effort to F1 here are some numbers randomly plucked from the interwebs.

Major league baseball, which is basically an American only pass time and is widely regarded as one of the worst spectator sports ever devised earns $265 million per year from its online streaming.

As of Q1 2015 WWE which was as far as I knew only followed by 13-16 year old boys has 1.36 million paying subscribers. If F1 only attracted as many viewers as this terrible tv drama and charged a reasonable sum of $10 per month they would be pulling in an extra $163,200,000. If they charged $10 per race which is still probably less than they would in reality that is $272 million. As a comparison the UK tv rights deal is estimated to be around $110 million

You forget about the costs. I believe the advantage of regular tv rights is that they are sold for few years without FOM needing to worry about people buying the subscriptions or having to care about streaming infrastructure. It's steady stream of money and FOM just need to produce signal and distribute it to TV stations. As long as TV stations are willing to pay a lot of money for TV rights, FOM will have no incentive to provide any service on their own.

If F1 went to PPV online only, it would be the death of the sport. I don't believe we've enough hardcore fans to sustain it, we've plenty of casual fans, but how many would watch if it wasn't free to air or part of a sports package?

The sport relies on TV rights and advertising. Unless the sport could attract 100 million subscribers, which it won't.

It's the same with the dedicated boxing channel in the UK. A channel teetering with bankruptcy. Not enough people have subscribed to it, as casual fans are only interested if its a big fight.

I don't think it would ever go online only. But it seems like most places in the world that it is not free to air any more anyway and I doubt many people have signed up to foxtel or sky purely because of F1. In effect they've just lost viewers but signed on to a rocket contact. If it was available on subscription for a reasonable price they probably wouldn't get many NEW viewers, but could easily win back some of the fans that they've lost.

If I had the option to watch F1 through a stream for $10 a month I'd jump at it, that's only the cost of a pint of beer. $15 is still acceptable. $20 I'd baulk but probably still give in reluctantly. Any more is a deal breaker.

Badgeronimous wrote:If F1 went to PPV online only, it would be the death of the sport. I don't believe we've enough hardcore fans to sustain it, we've plenty of casual fans, but how many would watch if it wasn't free to air or part of a sports package?

The sport relies on TV rights and advertising. Unless the sport could attract 100 million subscribers, which it won't.

It's the same with the dedicated boxing channel in the UK. A channel teetering with bankruptcy. Not enough people have subscribed to it, as casual fans are only interested if its a big fight.

The trick is to have some coverage on normal tv and then have pay per view events, that is where boxing goes wrong and WWE gets it right.

I'm not sure how it would work in f1, possibly have quali and races live on pay per view with a highlights package of quali and races on FTA, but all sessions live on their own inline channel. They would get more viewers straight away outing a highlights package on FTA in all territories albeit for a smaller tv rights fee, but with that comes higher advertising revenue. Then there's the number of fans who will pay for the subscription service, which should more than pay for itself without affecting the tv rights revenue.

P.s. Backhander, 10 aussie dollars for a pint? I thought we had it bad in the UK, I wouldn't pay that unless I it was London prices!

shay550 wrote:

wolfticket wrote:

minchy wrote:Put simply, look at what WWE and UFC have done. £10/month subscription and you get all live pay per views, all new shows and also a back catalogue of just about everything with new shows, interviews, discussions etc. Available on Xbox, PS4, tablet, PC.

Simple.

That would be great. Then I could cancel my Sky package... Which is why it won't happen, at least not in core markets or without a complete restructuring of TV rights.

We just 'cut the cord' and I'm going to miss watching F1 on NBCSN here in the States. It's just not worth paying over $60 extra a month to watch F1 and Premier league games anymore.

I really like what the WWE has done as well, this is a great model that F1, Premier League, and other sports need to start following. The WWE has 1.3 million subscribers last time I checked, and they're already profitable.

I'm hoping next months Apple TV Reboot is going to be a game changer. A lot of rumors pointing it to have a better User interface than it's competitors, a gaming platform, and a possible a la carte streaming subscription in the horizon. This may be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back...

In the UK, for all the F1, the only cord cutting (or should that be dish ditching) option is Sky's own NowTV service. You looking at £7 for a day/£11 a week/£32 a month. That's for full Sky Sports (Football, golf etc).

Sky aren't going to give relatively cheap access to a single sport, because they'd rather use a single sport that people don't want to miss to force people to get a full package that makes them more money.

And those who run F1 aren't going to independently provide a reasonably priced subscription in countries where they make a huge amount of money selling exclusive rights to broadcasters, because that would devalue the exclusive rights.

At some point, when a la carte IPTV is the norm, and depending on the the state of the market where you live, broadcaster's hands will be forced and fairly narrow streaming options will probably become an option. I can't see it happening in the UK at least for quite a while though.

minchy wrote:P.s. Backhander, 10 aussie dollars for a pint? I thought we had it bad in the UK, I wouldn't pay that unless I it was London prices!

You guys have it nice is what you have; a pint of something good here is going to be $10 or more, and that's US dollars. At the local Hopcat here in Michigan, it's $16 for a pint of a good Belgian ale.

Exediron wrote:

minchy wrote:P.s. Backhander, 10 aussie dollars for a pint? I thought we had it bad in the UK, I wouldn't pay that unless I it was London prices!

You guys have it nice is what you have; a pint of something good here is going to be $10 or more, and that's US dollars. At the local Hopcat here in Michigan, it's $16 for a pint of a good Belgian ale.

Place I had lunch last week had a wine list on the table. Bottles were from £700 to £2900


I had a glass of DoubleDraggon ale at £4.90. I am sure it was wonderful, but I really could not enjoy it, and looking at that wine list put me right off my food too.

(surprisingly the very good food was only around £24 main course)

Other issue is for online is people like me. Like many motorsport fans, I'm not from an urban area.

My internet speed will not support unbuffered HD streaming.

Blackhander wrote:Just as an example to those who dismiss online streaming as wasteful and not worth the effort to F1 here are some numbers randomly plucked from the interwebs.

Major league baseball, which is basically an American only pass time and is widely regarded as one of the worst spectator sports ever devised earns $265 million per year from its online streaming.

As of Q1 2015 WWE which was as far as I knew only followed by 13-16 year old boys has 1.36 million paying subscribers. If F1 only attracted as many viewers as this terrible tv drama and charged a reasonable sum of $10 per month they would be pulling in an extra $163,200,000. If they charged $10 per race which is still probably less than they would in reality that is $272 million. As a comparison the UK tv rights deal is estimated to be around $110 million

WWE is a different business model. They make a number of weekly tV shows but their game was always to sell their PPV events. And interestingly, WWE's main stay region of the USA has an interesting issue with advertisers. Basically, the view is that the bulk of those who watch WWE are some rednecks with no money or the teenage boy market who have very limited money. So WWE or the TV network always made less money from advertisers than pretty much ANY other market. The PPV market itself takes a fair chunk off the price of the PPV too, so that's another massive potential money saver for the WWE system that may not be true for F1.

Don't get me wrong, I agree in principle but I think the NFL and MLB services have blackouts on certain games to preserve the TV market too. In this case, they operate their internet services as a secondary income service I think. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

Badgeronimous wrote:Other issue is for online is people like me. Like many motorsport fans, I'm not from an urban area.

My internet speed will not support unbuffered HD streaming.

I hate to be the voice of dickishness, but the many fans probably only make up a tiny % I'd guess. Or perhaps I'm spoiled living in a relatively major population centre (Glasgow) but I thought most of the UK population now had access to streaming speed internet? (Couldn't get information more specific than broadband). I'd be annoyed in your shoes but if you do make up a tiny %, I'd expect they'd go with whatever seemed more profitable. I'd guess it would remain on TV also, for at least some cross over period.

mac_d wrote:

Blackhander wrote:Just as an example to those who dismiss online streaming as wasteful and not worth the effort to F1 here are some numbers randomly plucked from the interwebs.

Major league baseball, which is basically an American only pass time and is widely regarded as one of the worst spectator sports ever devised earns $265 million per year from its online streaming.

As of Q1 2015 WWE which was as far as I knew only followed by 13-16 year old boys has 1.36 million paying subscribers. If F1 only attracted as many viewers as this terrible tv drama and charged a reasonable sum of $10 per month they would be pulling in an extra $163,200,000. If they charged $10 per race which is still probably less than they would in reality that is $272 million. As a comparison the UK tv rights deal is estimated to be around $110 million

WWE is a different business model. They make a number of weekly tV shows but their game was always to sell their PPV events. And interestingly, WWE's main stay region of the USA has an interesting issue with advertisers. Basically, the view is that the bulk of those who watch WWE are some rednecks with no money or the teenage boy market who have very limited money. So WWE or the TV network always made less money from advertisers than pretty much ANY other market. The PPV market itself takes a fair chunk off the price of the PPV too, so that's another massive potential money saver for the WWE system that may not be true for F1.

Don't get me wrong, I agree in principle but I think the NFL and MLB services have blackouts on certain games to preserve the TV market too. In this case, they operate their internet services as a secondary income service I think. I'm not 100% sure about that though.

Badgeronimous wrote:Other issue is for online is people like me. Like many motorsport fans, I'm not from an urban area.

My internet speed will not support unbuffered HD streaming.

I hate to be the voice of dickishness, but the many fans probably only make up a tiny % I'd guess. Or perhaps I'm spoiled living in a relatively major population centre (Glasgow) but I thought most of the UK population now had access to streaming speed internet? (Couldn't get information more specific than broadband). I'd be annoyed in your shoes but if you do make up a tiny %, I'd expect they'd go with whatever seemed more profitable. I'd guess it would remain on TV also, for at least some cross over period.

I live about 15 miles away from you (Beith), so I'm hardly out in distant sticks. I'm a 20 minute drive from a major city, and just outside it's metropolitan area.

In the town centre, broadband speed is fine. I live on the outskirts, I get maybe 3 or 4Mbs at peak times, and well... HD streaming is hard and buffers a lot. It's an issue in smaller towns right across the UK.

My own personal experience is some of the most dedicated motorsport fans are rural/small town folk - the type of people who grew up messing about on quads/scramblers and had the space to use them. It's no coincidence that many British F1 drivers share that sort of upbringing too although I admit we will not make up a huge % in terms of total audience.

I agree 100% that it should be possible to watch a race on pay by view basis.
I watch F1 races since the 80's, before it wasn't a problem as it was aired for free on many national channels.
I live around 5 different places in 3 different countries, so I will never subscribe for a one year package on any TV channel.
Now I have to find a sports bar around and often because of time zone differences where the race happens at odd times. I have to wait a day or two to see the race which I have to download from a torrent.
Why does sky not just offer a pay by view service just for each race ?
I am not going to subscribe to a year sky if even possible here from thailand. I don't care about anything else they might transmit.
Same in France, it was aired free until 2 years ago. Now you have to subscribe a year for 95% of things you don't want.

Sometimes I like to watch a tennis grand slam tournament. I just buy a month Eurosport. I works fine, but they don't have F1. So again torrents are your only solution.

Maybe its a sign of the current state of F1 that i used to have problems finding decent streams to watch races. They would be awful quality and cut out all the time. Now they are good quality and almost never cut out. It could be that the servers are better etc or it could be that the demand is a lot lower.

I personally will never buy subscription tv such as sky mainly because all my life they have been responsible for taking away the sports i used to love watching on normal tv. I just dislike them for that. And i dont want to put a penny into murdochs pocket so he can take more away.

Streaming (Legal and otherwise) is the future imo but only post bernie. And it would have to be very competitively priced and offer a whole new world of options to tempt me.

I'm really surprised this thread got this far with no-one mentioning, F1's top-tire contemporary motorsport, MotoGP's online streaming service. You get:

- All season MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 testing, practice, qualifying and races live
- All season MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 testing, practice, qualifying and races available on-demand, generally about 20 minutes after live broadcast
- Historical MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 races and sessions on-demand, going back about 20 years
- Post-race interviews / press-conferences
- Other media stuff

For about 100 euros / year.

They've been offering this service for a while and the races are still aired on regular / PPV TV.

It's a bargain and is surely the go to model for F1.

I wasn't aware of the MotoGP service, I used to be obsessed but slowly lost interest in the series over a couple of years from about 2010-2012, not sure why really it just doesn't seem like the MotoGP of old. That seems pretty much exactly what F1 needs though, although the fact that until last year F1 was charging around $40 for a mobile app that expired every year has me a little worried about pricing.