IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Placid
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IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Placid »

ImageFrom foxsports.com
"Fast Friday" has become now the ultimate audition for this weekend for the Indianapolis 500 with Pole Day Saturday and Bump Day Sunday. And Simon Pagenaud officially becomes the fastest driver in day 5 with 7 drivers surpassing the 230 MPH mark with a total of 8248 laps. There will be 2 hours of practice before the qualifying session.

Report:
http://www.indycar.com/News/2015/05/5-1 ... ce-wrap-up

Image From autosport.com

In other news: Indycar driver Katherine Legge has open up a partnership with Beth Paretta in hopes to enter the Indy 500 in 2016. And it will be an all-female team. Paretta - a former marketing director for SRT Motorsports and Chrysler announced the opening of Grace Motorsport.

Hopefully in the future, they can race more.

http://www.indycar.com/News/2015/05/5-1 ... r-Indy-500

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Alex53 »

Coupled with 2 airborne accidents in one week this it quite worrying really.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by pc27b »

yep, many want to see speed records broken at indy. imo there is no sane reason to try and go 235-240 anymore. the underside of the car acted in reverse during helio's crash. it created lift. damn lucky, not going to be that lucky with 33 other cars on the track. 210ish is more than fast enough

does the thread title mean fastest ever ? or just fastest this week ?

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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This is where the real balls out drivers are!

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Update:

Rain postpones today's pole day.

The entire grid will be determined on Sunday along with the fast 9. 1 team will only go home.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Alex53 wrote:Coupled with 2 airborne accidents in one week this it quite worrying really.


And with Pippa Mann getting that pinball action.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

It's bad enough that the cars are getting airborne as they are on their own - fortunately neither Helio nor Newgarden's cars veered right and into the catchfence - but once the race begins, if that happens in the pack, the chances of everybody walking away unhurt are going to reduce drastically. Has to be a real concern for everybody involved.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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pc27b wrote:yep, many want to see speed records broken at indy. imo there is no sane reason to try and go 235-240 anymore. the underside of the car acted in reverse during helio's crash. it created lift. damn lucky, not going to be that lucky with 33 other cars on the track. 210ish is more than fast enough

does the thread title mean fastest ever ? or just fastest this week ?


Fast this week.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Just saw the video of Helio's car. Scary stuff. Too fast.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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pc27b wrote:yep, many want to see speed records broken at indy. imo there is no sane reason to try and go 235-240 anymore. the underside of the car acted in reverse during helio's crash. it created lift. damn lucky, not going to be that lucky with 33 other cars on the track. 210ish is more than fast enough

does the thread title mean fastest ever ? or just fastest this week ?


I've read a couple of reports saying this same thing, and every time it makes me cringe. I understand that they're trying to simplify what happened to make it easier to understand. But it's simply wrong. If you run a wing backwards it doesn't create negative lift, it simply stalls. Which is exactly what happened in this instance.

Car spins after driver losses control at high speed (apparently caused by the end fence-less rear wings stalling when yawed- could be a major design flaw, probably just AOA too high) and once facing back to front the air flow over the underfloor stalls and slows down considerably. Once stalled is not producing downforce any more, and if more air is being fed into the underfloor faster than it can escape pressure will increase until the pressure starts to lift the car. AOA then turns the entire car into an inefficient wing.

Now that's out of the way... The speeds do look incredible. And I do like the aero kids of this year. Gives the cars some character rather than an entire feild of identical kit cars. Will definitely help get more attention to the sport which can only be a good thing
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by ob1kenobi.23 »

pc27b wrote:yep, many want to see speed records broken at indy. imo there is no sane reason to try and go 235-240 anymore. the underside of the car acted in reverse during helio's crash. it created lift. damn lucky, not going to be that lucky with 33 other cars on the track. 210ish is more than fast enough

does the thread title mean fastest ever ? or just fastest this week ?



I think Eddie Cheever did a 236 lap back in 1996 or so.

In the 80s, the Nascar boys were getting over 210 at Daytona & Talladega.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

It just happened again - this time Ed Carpenter hitting the wall before his car flipped over. At the risk of repeating myself, if it happens during the race, anybody involved is going to be a lot less likely to simply climb out of the car afterwards.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Blackhander »

seeing as it's only the Chevrolet cars that are having the problem is it getting to the point that they are forced to sit out on safety grounds? Looks like a design issue, unless every team is running the AOA too high on the rear wing and it is stalling out on turn entry (or maybe even stalling on the straight by design but failing to reattach to the wing). Or will they simply give it benefit of the doubt and pass it off as bad luck?
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Arie Luyendyk still holds the Indianapolis record at 237.4mph. I think the fastest oval lap is Gil de Ferran's incredible 241.4mph lap at Fontana.

I echo comments already made on here that Castroneves becoming airborne out on his own is worrying.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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The biggest problem with Indy is IndyCar, the organization could easily sleepwalk into a tragedy, if there's a car in the stands it's game over.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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yes, pagenaud isn't the record speed holder by a long shot. track records for speed should not be a goal just to get some tv/internet attention.
watching carpenter lift very easily this morning is very alarming. looks like teams are tiddled about something that no one will publicly say yet ? maybe it is the floor backhander was explaining ? not sure why ed carpenter wouldn't speak his mind...unless it is a chevy problem
a turbo boost drop and aero changes are being implemented now

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by JohnnyGuitar »

The three crashes we've seen this week tell us that a car spinning out and hitting the wall backwards is almost certainly going to flip. The prospect of that happening within a large pack of cars is pretty scary.

Not to mention one of them hitting the fence, which we know can have pretty bad outcomes for drivers and spectators.

Surely there are safety concerns about running the race unless someone can find a solution?

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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"Surely there are safety concerns about running the race unless someone can find a solution?""

the series is implementing mandatory changes this morning, will have to wait and see if they work
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/11686 ... ort-sunday
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Just read some tweets from Adam Cooper saying that boost is being turned down for qualifying.

https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Apparently the teams have been told that they have to use their race set-up, not their qualifying set up... ie race aero tweaks, and they have to turn down the boost. This was determined after a meeting with Chevy & Honda reps as well as IndyCar officials. It was also determined that there will be no championship points awarded for Qualifying as would normally be done.

Ironically, some of the drivers have found it a bit boring 'only' running 227mph, down about 5mph... even suggesting it feels "slow". Some of the drivers who were a bit uncomfortable with the cars earlier in the week seemingly felt much better as the dialed in the cars before qualifying yesterday.

I have a question of those participating in this thread, how many of you have had a chance to see an Indy 500... how long ago?
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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briggsiboi wrote:The biggest problem with Indy is IndyCar, the organization could easily sleepwalk into a tragedy, if there's a car in the stands it's game over.


Perhaps you could tell us just what IndyCar should be doing different. What have they done wrong in this instance?
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Still going pretty damn fast.. 227 mph. What was it earlier? 231's?
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Excuse the stupid question, but could they add some sort of air dampeners to stop cars getting up like Nascar did with the roof flaps? I doubt it due to the rear wing and completely different car shapes vs Nascar but those "silly little" roof flaps sure made a difference (although I think they changed the rear end shape of the car too).

It's scary to see cars get airborne, but at the same time, it's nothing new.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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"I have a question of those participating in this thread, how many of you have had a chance to see an Indy 500... how long ago?""

attended many 500's, back when there was a great party the night before. went over in the early nineties for one too.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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pc27b wrote:"I have a question of those participating in this thread, how many of you have had a chance to see an Indy 500... how long ago?""

attended many 500's, back when there was a great party the night before. went over in the early nineties for one too.

Interesting question. When I was younger, before the CART IRL split, I watched American open wheel racing and the 500 religiously. Now, I watch the 500 each year and other races sort of off and on, but not every one.

I've been to Nascar races but never an open wheel. I'd love to go and plan to this year.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Blake wrote:I have a question of those participating in this thread, how many of you have had a chance to see an Indy 500... how long ago?


I've been in 1994 & 1998 - wish I could remember those experiences in better detail.

I really haven't much interest in oval racing, and I don't think it makes a lot of sense safety-wise with these cars. As people have been saying, one of these accidents takes place during the race and it very well could be a horrific outcome. I like that Indycar is quickly responding by turning down boost, requiring race setups and removing the points incentive, but the risk during the race remains. I love the tradition associated with the race but I'm more attuned to safety matters and Indianapolis is like the Monaco of Indycar circuits: tradition/money trumps safety concerns.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Mr-E wrote:Still going pretty damn fast.. 227 mph. What was it earlier? 231's?


They dropped about 5-6mph on average lap times, so 231-2 on average. The guys above 225 were still turning into some of the turns at 233mph though. Graham Rahal commented during qualifying that they were going so fast that the electronic throttle blip when they change gear could cost them 10 places on the grid and everyone was trying desperately not to shift (except Justin Wilson who was short shifting between 4th and 6th)

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Looks different to the other three, but been another big crash today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlbdpXb3FSg

Driver James Hinchcliffe is reported to be concious but had to be helped out of the car and was taken to hospital. Hope he's not too badly injured, obviously.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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JohnnyGuitar wrote:Looks different to the other three, but been another big crash today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlbdpXb3FSg

Driver James Hinchcliffe is reported to be concious but had to be helped out of the car and was taken to hospital. Hope he's not too badly injured, obviously.


Bloody hell, he didn't have a chance to do much about that. I know he's had leg surgery but that crash shows just how far safety has progressed in Indycar, even in just the last 10 years.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

Yikes, that was definitely a straight to the scene of the accident kind of crash. Not good to see that he's had to have surgery on his leg, but at the same time, it's obviously good that that appears to be the extent of the injuries suffered from a very nasty accident.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by Blake »

I have been to several Indy 500s, and I have to tell you, if you have never seen one, you need to put it on your racing "bucket list". There is nothing quite like it. I prefer to sit in the NorthEast grand stands at the end of the back straight. For those watching qualifying, that is where they were reaching the 233mph speeds before dipping into Turn 3. The sensation of speed has always been what the Indy 500 is all about. The only experience I have ever had to match it was at Talladega for a NASCAR race as 3 lines of 11 cars each nose to tail and with only a few feet separating the lines blasting into Turn 1 there and they did it for many laps!. In both cases, it really is remarkable to experience the sensation. At Indy it is like a low flying jet flashing past. At Talladega, you felt the grandstands vibrate and the wind blast almost blew you off your feet.

The point is, they are different than F1, but they are still very serious racing. And with them, comes risk, it always has, and always will. Indianapolis has pioneered many safety features, including being the first race track to use the Safer Barriers, now used world wide (and... I am proud to say, they were developed in my homestate at the University of Nebraska). Things are safer at Indy than in the past, and they continue to work in that direction. That said, there is no guarantee... not at 233mph, nor at 210mph (where did that number come from???).

Just as there is no guarantee in F1 (we have been really lucky in F1 for 20 years) nor WEC or WRC. There are inherent risks in auto racing. Some think that the WRC drivers are out of their minds as it looks so dangerous, some look at ovals... in particular Indy... and think that it is crazy (ie Schumi), and obviously NASCAR racing with large bunches of cars grouped together is not everybody's cup of tea.

One thing Hinchcliffe's accident does do, reminds everybody that it may not be just the Chevy high-speed aero package that can lose it.... It will be interesting to see how things unfold this week.

One thing won't change however, next weekend will again be the greatest Racing weekend of the year for those enjoy multiple racing disciplines... the Monaco Grand Prix, the Indy 500 and the Charlotte 600 NASCAR race!!! It doesn't get any better than that! The "biggest" F1 race of the year, the biggest IndyCar race of the year, and one of the two or three biggest NASCAR races of the year, all on one weekend... I hope it is a rainey day here so I don't have to feel bad about being a couch potato.
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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Apparently Hinchcliffe's suspension broke.

https://twitter.com/GeoffreyMiller/stat ... 92/photo/1

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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Jenson's Understeer wrote:Yikes, that was definitely a straight to the scene of the accident kind of crash. Not good to see that he's had to have surgery on his leg, but at the same time, it's obviously good that that appears to be the extent of the injuries suffered from a very nasty accident.

We wonder if there will be a driver standing by in case James is not clear to drive.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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JohnnyGuitar wrote:Apparently Hinchcliffe's suspension broke.

https://twitter.com/GeoffreyMiller/stat ... 92/photo/1

Makes sense, sure looked like something broke. Nasty hit.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by f1guyus »

Been to LeMans twice, 88 and 99, Monza twice, 89 and 97. Imola once, 94 sadly. Finally got to Indy (after listening to the radio or watching on TV since 1952) three years ago. First year for the new cars. It was incredible. Go if you can.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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blake, i was a teenager first time i went to indy. walking around the infield(seeing things my mother wouldn't have approved of!) the noise when all 33 cars get on for the start was an addictive rush for me.

edit. i have zero use for the fools trying to hit 250mph lap times for next years 100th race though.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

Post by briggsiboi »

Blake wrote:
briggsiboi wrote:The biggest problem with Indy is IndyCar, the organization could easily sleepwalk into a tragedy, if there's a car in the stands it's game over.


Perhaps you could tell us just what IndyCar should be doing different. What have they done wrong in this instance?


As Racer reported yesterday "IndyCar plans to hold ongoing testing before the remaining high-speed oval events to ensure that an inherent aerodynamic problem is not behind the string of practice crashes at Indianapolis Motor Speedway."

The fact is these kits were not given enough testing time pre-season, as both companies have already pointed out they weren't given the specs until very late, amazingly you'd think for a series that has an almost endless winter break at the moment.

Indy is the only event that keeps this series in business, and if you know the series as you say.. you'll know the fans opinion of those who run the organization.

An organization that is already being sued for debris from these new kits going into the stands on, I believe, the first race weekend this year!

Turning down the turbo etc. is a start, let's hope the race goes off without a big problem. The omens aren't good though as the big demand to increase speeds with the 100th running coming up was the main side-story coming into this years event. I just hope that out of desperation, a failing organization doesn't kill the sport.

(slightly over-dramatic with flu on a tuesday morning I admit x( )

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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I recall about a replacement driver in the name of Al Unser Sr. who won the I500 in 1987 in place of Danny Ongais. It will be a long shot if anyone replacing James hinchcliffe will do the impossible.

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Re: IndyCar: Simon Pagenaud becomes fastest driver in oval

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http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/11693 ... s-injuries

damn, suspension went through one leg into the other, stopping at his pelvis. serious blood loss when the safety team arrived. they had better break tradition and offer more testing this week. at least they stopped practice and checked all suspension on the other cars

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