I love it! This is what Macca should be about - trying the next new crazy silver bullet idea to get back to the front!wolfticket wrote:New nose![]()

![Grin :]](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Hopefully it works, too...
I love it! This is what Macca should be about - trying the next new crazy silver bullet idea to get back to the front!wolfticket wrote:New nose![]()
"Isn't that far behind"... but they are.... considering this time last year they were competing with each other for measly points?rodH wrote:It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.
Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?Teddy007 wrote:"Isn't that far behind"... but they are.... considering this time last year they were competing with each other for measly points?rodH wrote:It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.
Now Mclaren are consistently fighting and have already gained more points with Renault than Honda. Not sure why people are nit picking holes with Mclaren.. they ARE better off with a Renault.. not to mention they have already had less failures...
The gap between 'the rest' of the field was small and is small... that's the nature of the other teams.. Honda wasn't the cause of all the issues but considering where Mclaren are now... they are better off and that is a fact.
13 points to 40 "not far behind"... that's like saying Mclaren are not far behind Ferrari... they are.. Toro's are sitting where Mclaren would be right now.. or maybe Force India if they were lucky.
I just look at what matters:dompclarke wrote: Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?
Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.
They wouldn't be better with Honda if they continued to put limitations on the design of the Honda engine which presently STR are not doing.dompclarke wrote:Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?Teddy007 wrote:"Isn't that far behind"... but they are.... considering this time last year they were competing with each other for measly points?rodH wrote:It is pretty interesting to see that McLarens deficits aren't much different in a Renault than they were in a Honda. The other thing that is interesting to see is that TR isn't all that far behind Mc. Kind of have the feeling that if TR were using RB chassis and drivers that they would be ahead of McLaren. As a Nando fan, it is frustrating to see that team just flounder.
Now Mclaren are consistently fighting and have already gained more points with Renault than Honda. Not sure why people are nit picking holes with Mclaren.. they ARE better off with a Renault.. not to mention they have already had less failures...
The gap between 'the rest' of the field was small and is small... that's the nature of the other teams.. Honda wasn't the cause of all the issues but considering where Mclaren are now... they are better off and that is a fact.
13 points to 40 "not far behind"... that's like saying Mclaren are not far behind Ferrari... they are.. Toro's are sitting where Mclaren would be right now.. or maybe Force India if they were lucky.
Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.
What matters is the unanswerable question of how they'd have faired with the Honda in the back this year compared to the Renault.Teddy007 wrote:I just look at what matters:dompclarke wrote: Are they better off than they would have been with this years Honda and not having to delay packages due to changing engines though?
Whether they are better off with Renault currently or not, I'm still of the opinion they would have been better sticking with Honda till at least 2021 than going with Renault.
Alonso 2017 17 points.
Alonso 2018 32 points.
Mclaren 2017 30 points.
Mclaren 2018 40 points.
With Fernando at the wheel!!!Shia Luck wrote:I agree. You can only #keepTheFaith so long,
.......and so far in Monaco they are the slowest Renault powered car-ish.
Have fun
Pretty abysmal. The car is just not too good and it seems they are losing out in the dev race too. A lot of bad signs from this team in 2018. They are proving themselves to be substantially inferior to the true top teams in today's F1.ReservoirDog wrote:1.5 secs behind RBR
1.0 secs behind Renault
0.3 secs behind Honda-powered below-average driver Hartley
0.1 secs behind a Sauber
Don't I just love McLaren.
Their budget is also only about half of what Mercedes and Ferrari spend. They are not a top team.KingVoid wrote:It’s easy to forget that in 2013 and 2014 McLaren were already a midfield team before the switch to Honda engines. Ever since Tim Goss took over their cars have been underwhelming.
They gave up a big chunk of their budget because they thought they were a top team though.sandman1347 wrote:Their budget is also only about half of what Mercedes and Ferrari spend. They are not a top team.KingVoid wrote:It’s easy to forget that in 2013 and 2014 McLaren were already a midfield team before the switch to Honda engines. Ever since Tim Goss took over their cars have been underwhelming.
Yeah, they did a great job convincing everyone that honda was the root of all their problems that most people forget that the lack of pace predated hondas return.KingVoid wrote:It’s easy to forget that in 2013 and 2014 McLaren were already a midfield team before the switch to Honda engines. Ever since Tim Goss took over their cars have been underwhelming.
Only because Alonso DNF'd. Without that, they'd have just been beaten by the Big Three plus Renault and Force India.Lt. Drebin wrote:I am at lost of words. Only Williams is worse then them. Mclaren was beaten by every other car today.
Alonso should leave. There is just nothing for him to gain over at Mclaren. Who knows, maybe Lewis will ultimately retire and I'm sure he would be a prime candidate to replace him.Seanie wrote:Yeah, they did a great job convincing everyone that honda was the root of all their problems that most people forget that the lack of pace predated hondas return.KingVoid wrote:It’s easy to forget that in 2013 and 2014 McLaren were already a midfield team before the switch to Honda engines. Ever since Tim Goss took over their cars have been underwhelming.
I feel most sorry for Alonso. It looks like hes doomed to see out the twilight of his career in a disappointing McLaren, just like Button did.
How do you know the Toro Rosso isn't good? They've built pretty strong midfield cars before, such as 2015.oz_karter wrote:The Honda in the Toro Rosso (which is not a fast chassis) seems to be a good performer. The Honda in 2017 was nowhere near as bad as McLaren claimed.
I thin the STR-Honda package is a good one. I think it may be being let down by the drivers. Look at what Gasly could do with it in Bahrain where he is a specialist.oz_karter wrote:How sad to see McLaren having no answers for their lack of pace. Once such a strong team.
The fact neither Alonso nor Vandoorne seem to have any idea why the car is slow suggests it's not a balance issue, but just an all round lack of grip.
The chassis is bad. The Renault is clearly capable of more, as shown by Red Bull.
The Honda in the Toro Rosso (which is not a fast chassis) seems to be a good performer. The Honda in 2017 was nowhere near as bad as McLaren claimed.
Alonso will leave, they can't blame the engine anymore. They have nothing to hide behind and seemingly no direction to move up the grid.
I think it was not so long ago. It's been severely weakened recentlyKingVoid wrote:Apparently Damon Hill said that McLaren’s brand name is as strong as Ferrari’s.
The 2016 chassis was pretty handy as well. It was at FI level at the beginning of the season but as the season went on, the disadvantage of an outdated PU with no more updates obviously hampered them.Exediron wrote:How do you know the Toro Rosso isn't good? They've built pretty strong midfield cars before, such as 2015.oz_karter wrote:The Honda in the Toro Rosso (which is not a fast chassis) seems to be a good performer. The Honda in 2017 was nowhere near as bad as McLaren claimed.
I'd say that Dennis leaving has had the biggest effect on the team. Hamilton left, but teams can survive the drivers leaving, someone else is going to be signed to drive. Arguably they covered that with Alonso, a driver as good if not better than Lewis (lets not get into that).Pullrod wrote:McLaren(the winning and positive team) died the moment Hamilton went to Mercedes. He took away from Woking the winning mentality, the positivity, the passion and the FANS.
Nobody is 150% committed in this NEW McLaren project and the team is chock-full of mercenaries, impostors and lazy engineers/personnel.
People are seeing it now but I saw it since the beginning but nobody wanted to believe me. They are a failure and only a Radical change(not the engine) can give the McLaren's name some dignity.
And if they want to do Indy or other extra activities, at least they should have the decency to change the team's name to something else.
By saying this I think you're doing a great disservice to a lot of fully committed people who put in a lot of hours and give it all their best and are just heartbroken to see their team struggle so much.Pullrod wrote: Nobody is 150% committed in this NEW McLaren project
I think you are spot on. Similar story to Williams. Once Frank and Patrick Head got older and less involved, Williams slipped down the pecking order.Siao7 wrote:I'd say that Dennis leaving has had the biggest effect on the team. Hamilton left, but teams can survive the drivers leaving, someone else is going to be signed to drive. Arguably they covered that with Alonso, a driver as good if not better than Lewis (lets not get into that).Pullrod wrote:McLaren(the winning and positive team) died the moment Hamilton went to Mercedes. He took away from Woking the winning mentality, the positivity, the passion and the FANS.
Nobody is 150% committed in this NEW McLaren project and the team is chock-full of mercenaries, impostors and lazy engineers/personnel.
People are seeing it now but I saw it since the beginning but nobody wanted to believe me. They are a failure and only a Radical change(not the engine) can give the McLaren's name some dignity.
And if they want to do Indy or other extra activities, at least they should have the decency to change the team's name to something else.
But Dennis not being involved has had a bigger effect. The guy ran a very tight ship, I knew someone working there and the stories were that when Dennis was walking around the place even your desk had to be clean, not even a coffee stain on it. He was very strict, respected, but very strict. He wouldn't tolerate failure and everyone was giving their maximum. Now they seem like ghosts of their former team
Yeah I'd agree. RD was McLaren and they are not quite the same team without him.Sutton wrote:I think you are spot on. Similar story to Williams. Once Frank and Patrick Head got older and less involved, Williams slipped down the pecking order.Siao7 wrote:I'd say that Dennis leaving has had the biggest effect on the team. Hamilton left, but teams can survive the drivers leaving, someone else is going to be signed to drive. Arguably they covered that with Alonso, a driver as good if not better than Lewis (lets not get into that).Pullrod wrote:McLaren(the winning and positive team) died the moment Hamilton went to Mercedes. He took away from Woking the winning mentality, the positivity, the passion and the FANS.
Nobody is 150% committed in this NEW McLaren project and the team is chock-full of mercenaries, impostors and lazy engineers/personnel.
People are seeing it now but I saw it since the beginning but nobody wanted to believe me. They are a failure and only a Radical change(not the engine) can give the McLaren's name some dignity.
And if they want to do Indy or other extra activities, at least they should have the decency to change the team's name to something else.
But Dennis not being involved has had a bigger effect. The guy ran a very tight ship, I knew someone working there and the stories were that when Dennis was walking around the place even your desk had to be clean, not even a coffee stain on it. He was very strict, respected, but very strict. He wouldn't tolerate failure and everyone was giving their maximum. Now they seem like ghosts of their former team