Celebrating others misfortunes

olly-44 · Post by **olly-44** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:47 pm

So...just back in my hotel room from the Spanish GP qualifying, excited for the race tomorrow!

The atmosphere, the sun, the cars, the new sounds and smells...LOVE IT!

But! I heard something I didn't like it appreciate...

This man who was wearing a Ferrari top, who was either speaking Spanish or Italian, celebrated. Not unusual? Course not. Was he celebrating Ferrari? No he wasn't. Was he celebrating Vettel or Kimi? No he wasn't. What was he celebrating? He was celebrating Hamilton's spin in FP3. He was celebrating the Rosberg beat him in quali 2 and finally for pole. Shouting, screaming, punching the air and tensing his fists.

I watch and love football as well, and this happens too often in that sport...hating the opposition. But in all my time at F1, I haven't really experienced this. And I have been to many GPs.

So, my questions to you are...

Am I being too sensitive?
Is this acceptable in F1 or Motorsport too?
Do you do this?

There are drivers I do no like, Maldonado for example. But I'd never cheer his misfortune...I might have a wry smile that he was spun out or crashed AGAIN, but never cheer with such furosity.

Thoughts please...

VDV23 · Post by **VDV23** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:53 pm

You are being too sensitive.

Lotus49 · Post by **Lotus49** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:54 pm

Happens all the time, you just need to look at any race/qualy thread on the forums and one group of fans will rejoice at a rival drivers misfortune like Lewis at Hungary or Nico at Silverstone last year for example. I don't think any driver is immune from it.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:54 pm

Asphalt_World · Post by **Asphalt_World** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:07 pm

Far too sensitive.

Need4Naiim · Post by **Need4Naiim** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:21 pm

Did you see what Ferrari fans was doing during the last lap of 2001 Spanish GP?

I was not enjoying that situation. But it was because of McLaren-Mercedes, not because of some fans.

olly-44 · Post by **olly-44** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:32 pm

There is one thing being a keyboard warrior and another doing it in public.

Don't get me wrong, I am not upset...just very disappointed.

I expect it in football maybe due to cult following of clubs and maybe the culture. However, we are all here to enjoy f1 first and foremost because drivers come and go. Football clubs don't. So I would expect respect you get when you are at a rugby match, tennis match or cricket...where you either clap the opponent or stay respectfully quiet.

One person might say I am being top sensitive. Another might say I am being sportsmanlike.

Overall, I would hope the majority of the F1 community, in real life and maybe not over the easy to hide Internet, displays respect all the while cheering on their team/driver.

Asphalt_World · Post by **Asphalt_World** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:40 pm

Hamilton is favourite to win the WDC. It mans sense that someone wanting a Ferrari driver to win would be pleased with Hamilton's misfortune. As long as it's not overly aggressive or celebrating a nasty Hamilton crash, I don't see it as that bad really.

VDV23 · Post by **VDV23** » Sat May 09, 2015 8:20 pm

olly-44 wrote: One person might say I am being top sensitive. Another might say I am being sportsmanlike.

Nope, I don't believe anyone will.

It's sports. And for the fans in general there are a lot of emotions when it comes to supporting your team, regardless if it is F1 or football. People want their guy to win and the opposition to fail, preferably on every step of the way. Not to mention that supporting to Ferrari is much more like supporting a football club compared to any other F1 team. And I'm guessing you are also a Hamilton fan so you that's why you were .. "disappointed".

olly-44 · Post by **olly-44** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:03 pm

Asphalt_World wrote:Hamilton is favourite to win the WDC. It mans sense that someone wanting a Ferrari driver to win would be pleased with Hamilton's misfortune. As long as it's not overly aggressive or celebrating a nasty Hamilton crash, I don't see it as that bad really.

Like I said, he didn't celebrate Ferrari - just wore the top.

He didn't cheer anything apart from anything negative towards Hamilton. Not necessary in my books.

olly-44 · Post by **olly-44** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:06 pm

VDV23 wrote:
olly-44 wrote: One person might say I am being top sensitive. Another might say I am being sportsmanlike.
Nope, I don't believe anyone will.

It's sports. And for the fans in general there are a lot of emotions when it comes to supporting your team, regardless if it is F1 or football. People want their guy to win and the opposition to fail, preferably on every step of the way. Not to mention that supporting to Ferrari is much more like supporting a football club compared to any other F1 team. And I'm guessing you are also a Hamilton fan so you that's why you were .. "disappointed".

I'm a Hamilton fan as much as a F1 Motorsport fan. Like I said, drivers will come and go but the sport remains. Even if he did this to another driver, I would still raise the point.

Asphalt_World · Post by **Asphalt_World** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:07 pm

olly-44 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:Hamilton is favourite to win the WDC. It mans sense that someone wanting a Ferrari driver to win would be pleased with Hamilton's misfortune. As long as it's not overly aggressive or celebrating a nasty Hamilton crash, I don't see it as that bad really.
Like I said, he didn't celebrate Ferrari - just wore the top.

He didn't cheer anything apart from anything negative towards Hamilton. Not necessary in my books.

Vettel 3rd, as expected by most, Kimi week down, bad news. Not exactly lots to cheer about.

Anyway, So he hates Hamilton. So what? Schumacher's leg breaking Silverstone crash was cheered by hundreds of fans. It happens.

olly-44 · Post by **olly-44** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:11 pm

Maybe it's my naivety towards it or idealistic optimism for the sport to be different from football and be more like rugby and cricket. But with the passion running so high in F1, maybe people do hate as much as love drivers/teams.

For example, I dislike Red Bull for their moaning, and probably from their domination but with them doing poorly now, I do not relish this.

I did not like Vettel with his whining but I have a new found respect for him now at Ferrari due to a few reasons. I don't have to keep on hating him. Even clapped him on today.

I dislike Maldonado but if he were to crash or anything, I wouldn't rejoice.

I love the sport and especially hardcore racing - this is what F1 means to me. This is a different feeling I get from any other sport. Maybe I'm in minority who do not want this/is disappointed by this.

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:42 pm

I know how you feel but I am not surprised. This is F1.

A certain Fernando Alonso too was hoping for others misfortunes so that he could win championships.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/08/a ... win-title/

Laura23 · Post by **Laura23** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:45 pm

Think you are making a mountain out of a molehill tbh. People will cheer when a driver they don't like particularly much has an engine blow up or spins off while leading etc. Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support). See it as not always cheering the driver retiring rather than cheering the fact their driver just went up the order by a place, especially if it's for the lead of the race.

There are drivers in the field who people love to hate. It happened with Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and may others. Seeing them balls it up or have an untimely car failure can be just as entertaining as watching their favourite driver benefit from it. That's just human nature, we take joy in seeing those we dislike fail.

We all laugh when Maldonado spins/crashes out (only if it's clearly not a major crash and he is completely unhurt) because he has become a bit of a joke in the F1 world over the last couple of seasons. He doesn't help himself and there is nothing wrong with people laughing at his expense, you don't have to partake in it after all.

It's sport. It happens and I don't understand the problem unless it's people cheering a driver having a massive accident in which they may be hurt. Then it's out of order. But personally I think you are being a tad too sensitive on the issue. I also don't believe you wouldn't at least smile if a driver ahead of the one you supported had a car failure tbh.

Lotus49 · Post by **Lotus49** » Sat May 09, 2015 9:54 pm

If one F1 fan cheering over a drivers misfortune surprised/disappointed you this much then you would have flipped out at Silverstone when Rosberg and Vettel broke down, or at Monza when Alonso did while driving for Renault. There were thousands going bananas at those drivers misfortune.

I can't believe this is the first time you've encountered this in F1.

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Sat May 09, 2015 10:06 pm

I don't like it, never have. So I don't think you have overreacted in your opinion personally, though I too am surprised it's the first time you have come across it.

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:11 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I don't like it, never have. So I don't think you have overreacted in your opinion personally, though I too am surprised it's the first time you have come across it.

I am not even close to be Hamilton's fan, but if ever someone celebrates his misfortune, I sense that there is something really wrong with his view on life. Such person probably does not understands the roots of sportsmanship: In general, sportsmanship refers to virtues such as fairness, self-control, courage, and persistence, and has been associated with interpersonal concepts of treating others and being treated fairly, maintaining self-control if dealing with others, and respect for both authority and opponents. Oh yes, that's from Wiki, but I couldn't put it better anyway. In fact, if you take sportsmanship out of sport, what do you get? Activity void of all graces that make sport worthy to watch.

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Sun May 10, 2015 1:59 am

Lt. Drebin wrote:In fact, if you take sportsmanship out of sport, what do you get?

The internet

Anyway, to the OP: I agree with you - it's not right to celebrate the misfortune of others, but it's still very common, so I'm surprised you haven't encountered it before in F1.

Are you being too sensitive? Yes, sadly. This sort of behavior is everywhere, and if you don't figure out a way to deal with it better you'll be bothered a lot of the time.
Is it acceptable? Yes, at the level we're talking about here.
Do I do it? No. Even if I'm happy that another driver had something unfortunate befall them, I would never celebrate it publicly.

bourbon19 · Post by **bourbon19** » Sun May 10, 2015 3:51 am

Laura23 wrote:Think you are making a mountain out of a molehill tbh. People will cheer when a driver they don't like particularly much has an engine blow up or spins off while leading etc. Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support). See it as not always cheering the driver retiring rather than cheering the fact their driver just went up the order by a place, especially if it's for the lead of the race.

There are drivers in the field who people love to hate. It happened with Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and may others. Seeing them balls it up or have an untimely car failure can be just as entertaining as watching their favourite driver benefit from it. That's just human nature, we take joy in seeing those we dislike fail.

We all laugh when Maldonado spins/crashes out (only if it's clearly not a major crash and he is completely unhurt) because he has become a bit of a joke in the F1 world over the last couple of seasons. He doesn't help himself and there is nothing wrong with people laughing at his expense, you don't have to partake in it after all.

It's sport. It happens and I don't understand the problem unless it's people cheering a driver having a massive accident in which they may be hurt. Then it's out of order. But personally I think you are being a tad too sensitive on the issue. I also don't believe you wouldn't at least smile if a driver ahead of the one you supported had a car failure tbh.

I don't agree with this. I'm with the OP on this one. I disagree that it is human nature to take joy in seeing those we dislike fail. I certainly don't feel that way.

Cheering on victory or a benefit for your own competitor/team is great and I get that it can be difficult to parse at times (a missed ball can mean victory for your team and so you are cheering both), but straight up jeering and mocking (a driver spinning out in practice) is just petty, imo.

Porsan · Post by **Porsan** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:02 am

Quark wrote:I know how you feel but I am not surprised. This is F1.

A certain Fernando Alonso too was hoping for others misfortunes so that he could win championships.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/08/a ... win-title/

No.

What Alonso was saying was factually correct: that he could only win the WDC if Vettel DNFd several times. By no means "celebrating other's misfortunes".

Option or Prime · Post by **Option or Prime** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:17 am

Lt. Drebin wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:I don't like it, never have. So I don't think you have overreacted in your opinion personally, though I too am surprised it's the first time you have come across it.

I am not even close to be Hamilton's fan, but if ever someone celebrates his misfortune, I sense that there is something really wrong with his view on life. Such person probably does not understands the roots of sportsmanship: In general, sportsmanship refers to virtues such as fairness, self-control, courage, and persistence, and has been associated with interpersonal concepts of treating others and being treated fairly, maintaining self-control if dealing with others, and respect for both authority and opponents. Oh yes, that's from Wiki, but I couldn't put it better anyway. In fact, if you take sportsmanship out of sport, what do you get? Activity void of all graces that make sport worthy to watch.

+1

Shows lack of empathy for others, also a bit foolish as hero to zero and back again is a typical feature of sport, so they often end up getting it back with interest !!

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:21 am

Exediron wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:In fact, if you take sportsmanship out of sport, what do you get?
The internet

Anyway, to the OP: I agree with you - it's not right to celebrate the misfortune of others, but it's still very common, so I'm surprised you haven't encountered it before in F1.

Are you being too sensitive? Yes, sadly. This sort of behavior is everywhere, and if you don't figure out a way to deal with it better you'll be bothered a lot of the time.
Is it acceptable? Yes, at the level we're talking about here.
Do I do it? No. Even if I'm happy that another driver had something unfortunate befall them, I would never celebrate it publicly.

I think there's also an important distinction to be made between e.g. Hamilton spinning in FP2 and Rosberg's engine blowing at Silverstone.

In the latter, while I wasn't a fan of the cheers, it was Lewis who inherited 1st place. So there was an element of celebrating Hamilton's fortune rather than Rosberg's misfortune.

You could even argue in the OP's example that Lewis failing to get pole is better for a Ferrari fan as he is the runaway leader. In short a Nico win is better for Ferrari's drivers than a Lewis win.

However in the case of Hamilton spinning it was in no way helping anyone, that was purely celebrating someone's misfortune as there was no one to benefit from it.

F1Tyrant · Post by **F1Tyrant** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:21 am

Laura23 wrote:Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support).

That failure was just harsh. I mean it handed the lead Vettel, of all people, however brief his lead was before his gearbox failed. The director was also really bad at tracking his fight from dead last to 4th. It was a Schumacher in Brazil 2006 type performance and there is very little coverage of it.

Schumacher forever#1 · Sun May 10, 2015 8:23 am

You can't complain when it's something so meaningless as a little spin in a practice event. And you certainly can't complain him being happy when Rosberg beats him to pole. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

If he had a heavy shunt, then that's a different scenario. That should not be laughed at. Formula One is a competitive sport, meaning that one man's loss is another man's gain. If we are backing one driver, some are inevitably going to want the rival to perform bad and have a bit of a spin or so.

James14 · Post by **James14** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:25 am

I think you are being over sensitive. As long as the driver is clearly not hurt and given due respect afterwards (e.g. podium interviews) I have no real problem with it. Most of us get caught up in the emotion of the moment and it gives us an important part of all sport: atmosphere.

nixxxon · Post by **nixxxon** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:07 am

No you are not being too sensitive, this is unacceptable, police should arrest that man already!

/sarcasm

motorfinger · Post by **motorfinger** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:16 am

There are some evident contradictions in your post. What exactly is your problem? It obviously isn't with taking enjoyment from others failures (even if you try to present us with such initially), cause wry smile is just as indicative of it as is punching the air with your fist and shouting. And its not fundamentally any different just because its Maldonado, the f1 villain, you dislike. Are you a Hamilton fan? Or are you having a problem with the level of public display of enjoyment the guy feels free to have?

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun May 10, 2015 11:06 am

http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11395

ReservoirDog · Post by **ReservoirDog** » Sun May 10, 2015 2:32 pm

Inappropriate post removed.

Migen · Post by **Migen** » Sun May 10, 2015 3:43 pm

F1Tyrant wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support).
That failure was just harsh. I mean it handed the lead Vettel, of all people, however brief his lead was before his gearbox failed. The director was also really bad at tracking his fight from dead last to 4th. It was a Schumacher in Brazil 2006 type performance and there is very little coverage of it.

And Vettel`s gearbox failure in British GP 2013 was the most celebrated misfortune I`ve ever seen. Standing ovations and cheers all around the grand stand from what were mostly Lewis Hamilton fans... and I`m wondering whether olly-44 being a Hamilton fan was as sensitive towards that instance!

There will always be a minority or few individuals cheering at misfortunes of drivers they dont support... the worrying thing is when that minority grows and becomes majority.

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun May 10, 2015 4:02 pm

Migen wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support).
That failure was just harsh. I mean it handed the lead Vettel, of all people, however brief his lead was before his gearbox failed. The director was also really bad at tracking his fight from dead last to 4th. It was a Schumacher in Brazil 2006 type performance and there is very little coverage of it.
And Vettel`s gearbox failure in British GP 2013 was the most celebrated misfortune I`ve ever seen. Standing ovations and cheers all around the grand stand from what were mostly Lewis Hamilton fans... and I`m wondering whether olly-44 being a Hamilton fan was as sensitive towards that instance!

There will always be a minority or few individuals cheering at misfortunes of drivers they dont support... the worrying thing is when that minority grows and becomes majority.

Having been there on that very day I can absolutely guarantee you that it was far from just Hamilton fans that were cheering that particular piece of misfortune.

Migen · Post by **Migen** » Sun May 10, 2015 5:36 pm

Flash2k11 wrote:
Migen wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support).
That failure was just harsh. I mean it handed the lead Vettel, of all people, however brief his lead was before his gearbox failed. The director was also really bad at tracking his fight from dead last to 4th. It was a Schumacher in Brazil 2006 type performance and there is very little coverage of it.
And Vettel`s gearbox failure in British GP 2013 was the most celebrated misfortune I`ve ever seen. Standing ovations and cheers all around the grand stand from what were mostly Lewis Hamilton fans... and I`m wondering whether olly-44 being a Hamilton fan was as sensitive towards that instance!

There will always be a minority or few individuals cheering at misfortunes of drivers they dont support... the worrying thing is when that minority grows and becomes majority.
Having been there on that very day I can absolutely guarantee you that it was far from just Hamilton fans that were cheering that particular piece of misfortune.

Thats why I said "mostly Lewis Hamilton fans"... which is natural for a F1 race held in England.

Badgeronimous · Post by **Badgeronimous** » Sun May 10, 2015 5:55 pm

I find it very hard to become attached to an individual driver, even the teams I like change with time.

Whilst I would list F1 above football in my preferred sports, I get absolutely nowhere near as passionate about F1 as I do about my football team. Completely different mechanisms of enjoyment. My football team will evolve, will change, but will always be my team. I attend social functions around the club, go to the match with friends, etc, etc. Where as with F1... I just enjoy watching the sport, the technology and the politics of the sport.

I just can't imagine how anyone can be as passionate about an individual sport like F1. It's akin to supporting a player rather than the football team.

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun May 10, 2015 6:44 pm

Migen wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Migen wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Take Britain in 2013 for example, I was very happy when Hamilton's tyre exploded because it ruined his race and I was not a fan of his at all at that point in time ( I have mellowed to him a bit but I would still likely be happy if his car failed while in front of a driver I support).
That failure was just harsh. I mean it handed the lead Vettel, of all people, however brief his lead was before his gearbox failed. The director was also really bad at tracking his fight from dead last to 4th. It was a Schumacher in Brazil 2006 type performance and there is very little coverage of it.
And Vettel`s gearbox failure in British GP 2013 was the most celebrated misfortune I`ve ever seen. Standing ovations and cheers all around the grand stand from what were mostly Lewis Hamilton fans... and I`m wondering whether olly-44 being a Hamilton fan was as sensitive towards that instance!

There will always be a minority or few individuals cheering at misfortunes of drivers they dont support... the worrying thing is when that minority grows and becomes majority.
Having been there on that very day I can absolutely guarantee you that it was far from just Hamilton fans that were cheering that particular piece of misfortune.
Thats why I said "mostly Lewis Hamilton fans"... which is natural for a F1 race held in England.

Again, "far" was the operative word. I even had Germans in the near vicinity to me cheering that gearbox failure; the crowd reaction that day had far more to do with Vettel being a marmite character than any British anti Vettel bias.

Lotus38 · Post by **Lotus38** » Sun May 10, 2015 7:29 pm

Quark wrote:I know how you feel but I am not surprised. This is F1.

A certain Fernando Alonso too was hoping for others misfortunes so that he could win championships.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/09/08/a ... win-title/

Wtf does his have to do with fans reactions which is what the op is talking about?? I know, it's just your excuse to have another cheap shot at Alonso... It's getting old.

TheOtherGuy · Post by **TheOtherGuy** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:18 pm

I got told off here for being happy when Rosberg's ERS failed in Abu Dhabi, confirming LH's title. Called (and I quote) "classless". I guess it just depends who you support...

Flash2k11 · Post by **Flash2k11** » Sun May 10, 2015 8:45 pm

TheOtherGuy wrote:I got told off here for being happy when Rosberg's ERS failed in Abu Dhabi, confirming LH's title. Called (and I quote) "classless". I guess it just depends who you support...

Not in the eyes of the mods, but deliberately p!ssing on someone's chips on a forum is only going to end one way. Not that I disagree mind, see the previous topic I linked to.

Teddy007 · Post by **Teddy007** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:00 pm

VDV23 wrote:You are being too sensitive.

+1 +1 +1

If you was a football fan you would be called any name under the sun for getting touchy over it. That's sports, no offence but just wondering how old are you and how experienced are you in the world of sports.

People can be very passionate regardless of the sport you support or colour, team, kit or country you love.

flyboy10 · Post by **flyboy10** » Sun May 10, 2015 10:34 pm

olly-44 wrote:So...just back in my hotel room from the Spanish GP qualifying, excited for the race tomorrow!

The atmosphere, the sun, the cars, the new sounds and smells...LOVE IT!

But! I heard something I didn't like it appreciate...

This man who was wearing a Ferrari top, who was either speaking Spanish or Italian, celebrated. Not unusual? Course not. Was he celebrating Ferrari? No he wasn't. Was he celebrating Vettel or Kimi? No he wasn't. What was he celebrating? He was celebrating Hamilton's spin in FP3. He was celebrating the Rosberg beat him in quali 2 and finally for pole. Shouting, screaming, punching the air and tensing his fists.

I watch and love football as well, and this happens too often in that sport...hating the opposition. But in all my time at F1, I haven't really experienced this. And I have been to many GPs.

So, my questions to you are...

Am I being too sensitive?
Is this acceptable in F1 or Motorsport too?
Do you do this?

There are drivers I do no like, Maldonado for example. But I'd never cheer his misfortune...I might have a wry smile that he was spun out or crashed AGAIN, but never cheer with such furosity.

Thoughts please...

Were you at Silverstone in 1999? When Schumacher went off there was a cheer that was louder than the engines. It happens. It will happen in any sport where the players have fans who want them to win and where they have rival fans who don't.