Bottas to Ferrari!?

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sandman1347
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Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by sandman1347 »

http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/47112/B ... ly-in-2017

This is only a rumor at this point but one that seems to be somewhat credible. Thoughts?

Personally I'm not surprised but somewhat disappointed. Ferrari seem to be following their tradition of pairing a top driver with a #2 driver to try to maximize their chances of winning both titles. There's definitely better talent out there.

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Bottas has not considerably beaten Massa (he is a match for him and that's all so far), but he showed a lot of promise. He has a potential to develop more. I have sense as if his development is somewhat slowed down. Will Ferrari grow him up in fully developed driver, we can only wait and see.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by RunningMan »

He''ll make a good number 2 to Vettel. I think he's a touch over-rated and he's a step down from Kimi IMO. It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign him if Kimi decides to retire and they don't want to get another top driver to pair with Vettel
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Need4Naiim »

Dalemac wrote:I think the Hulk deserves a chance in the Ferrari before Bottas.
You are right but Bottas&Vettel duo for Ferrari is better. Because, i want Hulk&Ham partnership at Mercedes GP. Rosberg had his chance with race winning cars and title capable cars (2014-2015) IMO.

Hulk and Bottas deserve better <race winning> machines already.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by purchville »

However, when the time does come to Ferrari to replace Raikkonen, they will look to the "next best option"

And that, at this point in time, would be Ricciardo (who interestingly has been spending time driving fast cars in Italy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aedpay4zj14).

Unless of course Vettel has a RIC veto in his Ferrari contract.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by paulsf1fix »

If Ferrari complied a list of drivers to replace Kimi if they need to, then I think they should consider the following:

Valteri Bottas the rumours contiune linking him to the red cars
Daniel Ricciardo all though I think if Seb had a say he'd block such a move! ?
Nico Hulkenburg He'd be a good option for Ferrari but would they really want two German's? I'm not too sure, I wonder if they have remembered that he turned them down once, (2009 he was considered a replacement for the injured Massa)
Felipe Nasr again I'd give him a lot of thought if he contiunes to impress and if he stays on at Sauber (probably will if the bank supports him)

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by pokerman »

RunningMan wrote:He''ll make a good number 2 to Vettel. I think he's a touch over-rated and he's a step down from Kimi IMO. It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign him if Kimi decides to retire and they don't want to get another top driver to pair with Vettel
Why is that, Kimi = Massa, Bottas at the least = Massa, it even seems Vettel = Kimi, what you get with Bottas I guess is potential?
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by VDV23 »

Bring back Alonso, please. Thank you.

I am not that impressed by Bottas - he's not bad or anything but I just feel like there's a bit too much hype about him. Massa is way too close to him pace-wise so I can't get excited about him coming to Ferrari.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by specdecible »

purchville wrote:However, when the time does come to Ferrari to replace Raikkonen, they will look to the "next best option"

And that, at this point in time, would be Ricciardo (who interestingly has been spending time driving fast cars in Italy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aedpay4zj14).

Unless of course Vettel has a RIC veto in his Ferrari contract.
Ricciardo also has Italian heritage which is another mark in his favour, I doubt that Vettel would veto a Ric move I think it would be more of a case of Ferrari not wanting two Red Bull drivers. As for Bottas I see him currently on a similar level to Raikkonen, except maybe more open to PR commitments. The main thing is that Bottas is young and can still improve, Kimi is in his twilight years and has peaked performance wise.

So the realistic options for Ferrari next year are pretty much Raikkonen, Bottas, Ricciardo and Hulkenberg. If I was in their shoes I would try and nab Ricciardo as he's young & talented but Red Bull won't let him go easily, he would cost a lot and there's a chance Ricciardo might stay faithful to the Bulls for a few more years. Next up Bottas as he's shown he can get results and seems to be the next best option, however this year Massa seems to be more on form so it will be a crucial year for Bottas and he will need to assert himself as the top dog at Williams if he wants that Ferrari seat. Raikkonen would slot in third, we know what he can do but like I said he's nearing the end now. Hulkenberg once again comes up short for this seat, I fear that he has peaked as he just seems so invisible in races.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by RunningMan »

pokerman wrote:
RunningMan wrote:He''ll make a good number 2 to Vettel. I think he's a touch over-rated and he's a step down from Kimi IMO. It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign him if Kimi decides to retire and they don't want to get another top driver to pair with Vettel
Why is that, Kimi = Massa, Bottas at the least = Massa, it even seems Vettel = Kimi, what you get with Bottas I guess is potential?
I'd rate Bottas as at best equal to Massa. Massa appears to have the upper hand in 2015 IMO. I wouldn't call Massa a top driver anymore, and whilst Bottas is young/inexperienced, I'd expect him to put away Massa alot more convincingly. For that, I think that replacing Kimi with Bottas would be a slight step backwards for Ferrari.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by ChopSchuey »

Riccicardo would be the better option for Ferrari over Bottas because he's proven he's got Vettel's measure. Bottas is still for me, and it seems many
others on this site, an unproven quantity.

But i think Dan would think twice about going to Ferrari, because he knows he's not going to get equal status there.

Vettel is widely believed to have a number 1 status clause in his contract, Hamilton certaintly seems to think so (google it), and im sure it was
mentioned by one of the commentators at the Bahrain GP.

So if thats the case why would you go there when you know your a better driver than the other guy after thrashing him in equal equipment,
yet are not going to get equal treatment at the next team?

Bottas would at this stage appear to be the better option, he can be quick on the day, yet can be controlled because of Vettel's number 1
status, a perfect fit for Ferrari.

Is Bottas just another, younger version of Massa?

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by F1Tyrant »

ChopSchuey wrote:Is Bottas just another, younger version of Massa?
To be fair Massa got beaten by everyone when he first entered F1: Heidfeld, Fisi and Villeneuve crushed him before Massa turned the tables on Jacques. The rest of the time he was at Ferrari.

Bottas is the opposite. He's beaten everybody put in front of him: Senna, Maldonado and Massa. So at the moment he's the anti-Massa and Felipe will turn the tables this year!
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by OutKast »

ChopSchuey wrote:Riccicardo would be the better option for Ferrari over Bottas because he's proven he's got Vettel's measure. Bottas is still for me, and it seems many
others on this site, an unproven quantity.

But i think Dan would think twice about going to Ferrari, because he knows he's not going to get equal status there.

Vettel is widely believed to have a number 1 status clause in his contract, Hamilton certaintly seems to think so (google it), and im sure it was
mentioned by one of the commentators at the Bahrain GP.

So if thats the case why would you go there when you know your a better driver than the other guy after thrashing him in equal equipment,
yet are not going to get equal treatment at the next team?

Bottas would at this stage appear to be the better option, he can be quick on the day, yet can be controlled because of Vettel's number 1
status, a perfect fit for Ferrari.

Is Bottas just another, younger version of Massa?
Far from it. Bottas as a younger driver is fast, but he's no where as near as inconsistent as Massa has been in his time at Ferrari. Massa was always erratic, but quick in the past, but he has really smoothed his driving style over the years which IMO is why he is driving at a very solid level. So, I think Valtteri has potential to be better than Felipe. It's just when Bottas is behind Felipe or gets off to a bad start in some cases, he will put his head down or try to move through the field or just trundle in the back of the midfield sometimes.

Bottas would be a very safe pick for Ferrari and with Vettel I think Bottas would be perfect. A glue guy, but who is quick enough to compete with Vettel. I would see this signing as a nice pickup for Ferrari. Bottas still has something to prove and that is to basically demolish Massa, but it has not happened yet and IMO that would be the only way Ferrari would really want to sign him.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by mds »

ChopSchuey wrote: But i think Dan would think twice about going to Ferrari, because he knows he's not going to get equal status there.

Vettel is widely believed to have a number 1 status clause in his contract, Hamilton certaintly seems to think so (google it), and im sure it was
mentioned by one of the commentators at the Bahrain GP.

So if thats the case why would you go there when you know your a better driver than the other guy after thrashing him in equal equipment,
yet are not going to get equal treatment at the next team?
This is just the same mantra that many voiced at the end of 2013. Vettel would get #1 status, Ricciardo would be a #2, wouldn't get equal chances, yadda yadda yadda. History proved that was wrong.

From all the sounds coming out of the Ferrari camp I don't think Vettel has a contractual #1 status over Kimi. Hamilton thinking he does is hardly evidence - his opinion on that is worth as much or as little as anyone.

Don't you think that if Ricciardo contemplates going to Ferrari, he would make sure he gets equal chances? And if he isn't assured of that, he would just not go there?
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by James14 »

A lot depends on how things go with McLaren and Mercedes. If McLaren do not make progress Alonso will make a bid to get into a Merc. If Ferrari and Merc stay reasonably well matched then Ferrari would not want to face an Alonso Hamilton line up. The smart move would be to get Hamilton and if Ferrari stay competitive then Hamilton may be tempted.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Need4Naiim »

James14 wrote:.... If Ferrari and Merc stay reasonably well matched then Ferrari would not want to face an Alonso Hamilton line up....
Why? Last time The Scuderia faced Alonso&Hamilton line up, the drivers of Ferrari was Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa. And Kimi&Massa duo couldn't be defeated by them. Instead, Ferrari won both titles.


Alonso&Button, Vettel&Rai and Vettel&Bottas combinations are well stronger than a Kimi&Massa duo.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by mds »

Need4Naiim wrote:
James14 wrote:.... If Ferrari and Merc stay reasonably well matched then Ferrari would not want to face an Alonso Hamilton line up....
Why? Last time The Scuderia faced Alonso&Hamilton line up, the drivers of Ferrari was Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa. And Kimi&Massa duo couldn't be defeated by them. Instead, Ferrari won both titles.
The McLaren pairing did score more points than the Ferrari pairing though :)
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Covalent »

sandman1347 wrote:http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/47112/B ... ly-in-2017

This is only a rumor at this point but one that seems to be somewhat credible. Thoughts?

Personally I'm not surprised but somewhat disappointed. Ferrari seem to be following their tradition of pairing a top driver with a #2 driver to try to maximize their chances of winning both titles. There's definitely better talent out there.
Shame there isn't a link to the original article as I couldn't find it. Also I think it's quite misleading as it doesn't seem like the "pretty reliable sources" said anything about Bottas, again a link to the original article would help. The word "pinch" doesn't really describe the dose of salt needed in this case.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Zoue »

I don't see Bottas as any kind of improvement over Kimi, tbh. In qualifying, maybe, but not during races. I think he lacks the aggression needed for a truly top driver. In that respect I think he's more akin to Rosberg.

I think Ferrari would be better served playing a waiting game. If Kimi carries on like he is now, there is no real need to change, both from a driver performance and team harmony perspective. Another year might well turn into two. And in a year or so's time it's possible that Ricciardo may get fed up with RBR, or maybe Verstappen might have shown consistent form to be considered a star of the future. Sainz isn't looking too shabby, either. Bottas isn't bad at all, but I wouldn't say he's a must have talent, either.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by moby »

Zoue wrote:I don't see Bottas as any kind of improvement over Kimi, tbh. In qualifying, maybe, but not during races. I think he lacks the aggression needed for a truly top driver. In that respect I think he's more akin to Rosberg.

I think Ferrari would be better served playing a waiting game. If Kimi carries on like he is now, there is no real need to change, both from a driver performance and team harmony perspective. Another year might well turn into two. And in a year or so's time it's possible that Ricciardo may get fed up with RBR, or maybe Verstappen might have shown consistent form to be considered a star of the future. Sainz isn't looking too shabby, either. Bottas isn't bad at all, but I wouldn't say he's a must have talent, either.
I think the "improvements" are Constancy and game length.

Kimi can be as good as anyone when he chimes in, but it does not seem to be every race, and even if they keep him next year, it is just delaying the inevitable.

When asked about Hamilton going to Ferrari, Arrivabene said - that he would "rather look around for a young, talented driver to unite with Sebastian", which would seem to suggest the options are from Ricciardo, (with his Italian heritage) and Bottas back rather than more established drivers.

Ferrari seem to have surprised everyone with how competitive they are this year, including themselves, so another interim year next season is probably not the best option. Seb and a good points gatherer look to be their plan, along with a little stability after this last cleanout, and a serious attack on both titles next year before the next change in regs leave them unknowing again.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Zoue »

moby wrote:
Zoue wrote:I don't see Bottas as any kind of improvement over Kimi, tbh. In qualifying, maybe, but not during races. I think he lacks the aggression needed for a truly top driver. In that respect I think he's more akin to Rosberg.

I think Ferrari would be better served playing a waiting game. If Kimi carries on like he is now, there is no real need to change, both from a driver performance and team harmony perspective. Another year might well turn into two. And in a year or so's time it's possible that Ricciardo may get fed up with RBR, or maybe Verstappen might have shown consistent form to be considered a star of the future. Sainz isn't looking too shabby, either. Bottas isn't bad at all, but I wouldn't say he's a must have talent, either.
I think the "improvements" are Constancy and game length.

Kimi can be as good as anyone when he chimes in, but it does not seem to be every race, and even if they keep him next year, it is just delaying the inevitable.

When asked about Hamilton going to Ferrari, Arrivabene said - that he would "rather look around for a young, talented driver to unite with Sebastian", which would seem to suggest the options are from Ricciardo, (with his Italian heritage) and Bottas back rather than more established drivers.

Ferrari seem to have surprised everyone with how competitive they are this year, including themselves, so another interim year next season is probably not the best option. Seb and a good points gatherer look to be their plan, along with a little stability after this last cleanout, and a serious attack on both titles next year before the next change in regs leave them unknowing again.
I get what you are saying, but at the moment Ferrari have a very competitive driver pairing. They have the long term in Seb and now that they are looking much more competitive than anyone thought they would they have their "interim" driver who they know is more than capable of helping deliver a Constructor's title to them in the immediate term, if not 2015 then possibly 2016. Replacing Kimi with e.g. Bottas doesn't appear on the face of it to be an upgrade, so I don't really see the logic of trading sideways and potentially getting a worse deal.

To my mind they would want drivers who can challenge Seb and, apart from possibly Ric I don't see any other proven driver who would do that potentially better than Kimi. There are a few new talents that look promising, which is why I would wait, but there again that's probably why I'm not running a multi-million dollar team! :D

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Lotus49 »

I think it would be wise to stick with Kimi. He had an off year last year but with a good car with stable characteristics he can deliver consistent high points finishes. He might have lost a tenth or two in qualifying but he's shown this year he still has great race pace, maybe even a touch quicker than Seb.

Bottas is pretty even with Massa, I think even a touch behind in races where both have finished. I can't recall anything spectacular he has produced since that qualifying lap in Canada. He's been solid considering his experience level but not really a stand out prospect IMO.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Covalent »

^Even considering Massa's misfortunes last race Bottas had a massively better race.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Lotus49 »

Covalent wrote:^Even considering Massa's misfortunes last race Bottas had a massively better race.
With the damage and the extra long stint on the mediums for Massa its hard to judge the race pace between them but Bottas had a very good race i think. My point was more Massa is leading the head to head in races where both finish and I think that is still the case.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by moby »

Zoue wrote:
moby wrote:
Zoue wrote:I don't see Bottas as any kind of improvement over Kimi, tbh. In qualifying, maybe, but not during races. I think he lacks the aggression needed for a truly top driver. In that respect I think he's more akin to Rosberg.

I think Ferrari would be better served playing a waiting game. If Kimi carries on like he is now, there is no real need to change, both from a driver performance and team harmony perspective. Another year might well turn into two. And in a year or so's time it's possible that Ricciardo may get fed up with RBR, or maybe Verstappen might have shown consistent form to be considered a star of the future. Sainz isn't looking too shabby, either. Bottas isn't bad at all, but I wouldn't say he's a must have talent, either.
I think the "improvements" are Constancy and game length.

Kimi can be as good as anyone when he chimes in, but it does not seem to be every race, and even if they keep him next year, it is just delaying the inevitable.

When asked about Hamilton going to Ferrari, Arrivabene said - that he would "rather look around for a young, talented driver to unite with Sebastian", which would seem to suggest the options are from Ricciardo, (with his Italian heritage) and Bottas back rather than more established drivers.

Ferrari seem to have surprised everyone with how competitive they are this year, including themselves, so another interim year next season is probably not the best option. Seb and a good points gatherer look to be their plan, along with a little stability after this last cleanout, and a serious attack on both titles next year before the next change in regs leave them unknowing again.
I get what you are saying, but at the moment Ferrari have a very competitive driver pairing. They have the long term in Seb and now that they are looking much more competitive than anyone thought they would they have their "interim" driver who they know is more than capable of helping deliver a Constructor's title to them in the immediate term, if not 2015 then possibly 2016. Replacing Kimi with e.g. Bottas doesn't appear on the face of it to be an upgrade, so I don't really see the logic of trading sideways and potentially getting a worse deal.

To my mind they would want drivers who can challenge Seb and, apart from possibly Ric I don't see any other proven driver who would do that potentially better than Kimi. There are a few new talents that look promising, which is why I would wait, but there again that's probably why I'm not running a multi-million dollar team! :D

I was going by Arrivabene saying they want an old head and a charger really. Up until this season, I would have thought anyone really would be a better option than Kimi (L49, its not just last year he had an off year :] ) but he seems to have revived himself now, so I would be happy to see him stay. Things change again in 2 years, and things may not suit him again, but he can do a lot in 2 years.

Ricciardo? Good driver and Good prospect, but I a man not one of those who judge him against last years Vettel, which is not the Vettel that won 4 titles.

All in all, Kimi would be a good safe option, unless they are looking at 5 year plans.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by ReservoirDog »

Yeah, they will have the time of their life with the most overrated driver of 2014.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Beschy »

The next top team seat that becomes available should go to Ricciardo, obviously.
Schumacher was better than Senna.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Honda Quick »

Beschy wrote:The next top team seat that becomes available should go to Ricciardo, obviously.
Strange thing to say. Pretty certain that Dan is currently in a top team seat... The current car just needs to be quicker, and the engine more reliable - something I'm sure they can improve upon next year. But you cannot dismiss their recent past success, massive funding, and diverse talent pool of engineers.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Beschy »

Honda Quick wrote:
Beschy wrote:The next top team seat that becomes available should go to Ricciardo, obviously.
Strange thing to say. Pretty certain that Dan is currently in a top team seat... The current car just needs to be quicker, and the engine more reliable - something I'm sure they can improve upon next year. But you cannot dismiss their recent past success, massive funding, and diverse talent pool of engineers.
Ok fair enough, replace 'Top Team' with 'Front running team' (current RBR are not) and you get the gist of my post.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by AravJ »

No doubt Ricciardo deserves the Ferrari seat or with any top team. I don't think Vettel will have a problem with that. I did not see vettel throw a tantrum when he was beaten by Dan last year.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by appletree »

Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/47112/B ... ly-in-2017

This is only a rumor at this point but one that seems to be somewhat credible. Thoughts?

Personally I'm not surprised but somewhat disappointed. Ferrari seem to be following their tradition of pairing a top driver with a #2 driver to try to maximize their chances of winning both titles. There's definitely better talent out there.
Shame there isn't a link to the original article as I couldn't find it. Also I think it's quite misleading as it doesn't seem like the "pretty reliable sources" said anything about Bottas, again a link to the original article would help. The word "pinch" doesn't really describe the dose of salt needed in this case.
Thats because it was a tweet from Oskari Saari( read back a bit the Kimi Räikkönen thread) ,where he said he has pretty good sources saying the deal hasnt been signed but there has been contacts.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Beschy wrote:
Honda Quick wrote:
Beschy wrote:The next top team seat that becomes available should go to Ricciardo, obviously.
Strange thing to say. Pretty certain that Dan is currently in a top team seat... The current car just needs to be quicker, and the engine more reliable - something I'm sure they can improve upon next year. But you cannot dismiss their recent past success, massive funding, and diverse talent pool of engineers.
Ok fair enough, replace 'Top Team' with 'Front running team' (current RBR are not) and you get the gist of my post.
Surely Alonso is the best driver not in a front running team?

But seriously Ricciardo is a number one driver in a team that has just as much chance as being a top running team as Ferrari in the next few years. Can't see why anyone would want to trade in number one status at Red Bull for a team mate battle at Ferrari.

I think Vettel's next team mate will be Hulk or Bottas.

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by slide »

lewis will not leave merc in a hurry and kimi's days are numbered in a red car - take a punt on max in a Ferrari and prepare him for a wdc

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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by Honda Quick »

Beschy wrote:
Honda Quick wrote:
Beschy wrote:The next top team seat that becomes available should go to Ricciardo, obviously.
Strange thing to say. Pretty certain that Dan is currently in a top team seat... The current car just needs to be quicker, and the engine more reliable - something I'm sure they can improve upon next year. But you cannot dismiss their recent past success, massive funding, and diverse talent pool of engineers.
Ok fair enough, replace 'Top Team' with 'Front running team' (current RBR are not) and you get the gist of my post.
Got ya. That makes a bit more sense. :-P I think it'd be nice to see both Ricciardo and Alonso in front runners along with Hamilton and Vettel. I think Bottas' fans would like to see him in a Ferrari though. So it'd be good for fans of those drivers to make their way up, too! Ultimately, with longer and longer careers, some drivers are unfortunately never going to get that opportunity in a top / front running team even if they "deserve" it or show promise for it. Ugly reality of F1. :-((
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sandman1347
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by sandman1347 »

slide wrote:lewis will not leave merc in a hurry and kimi's days are numbered in a red car - take a punt on max in a Ferrari and prepare him for a wdc
Why should Ferrari "take a punt" on a totally unproven rookie with 4 races under his belt? They are in a win-now situation. They should be hiring the best drivers that they can get; not looking to hire someone on potential and trying to develop him into a champion.

Realistically, Hamilton isn't going anywhere right now. He's staying at Mercedes. Alonso just left so I don't see him coming back (although they really could use him). To me the choice is clearly Daniel Ricciardo but it seems that Ferrari have made their bed with Vetel and now they must lie in it.

Ferrrari do not traditionally like to have their drivers compete against each other. They are more comfortable with a clear #1 driver and a clear #2 like Schumacher/Barichello or Alonso/Massa. Ultimately, I think that's what they're trying to set up with Vettel but I think Kimi might spoil the party for Seb the way that Massa did for Kimi a few years back. If Kimi legitimately beats Seb in the points this year (which I think is possible), Ferrari will be faced with the realization that Seb is not an Alonso or a Schumacher but rather that he is more of a Raikkonen or Massa. Who better to replace him with than a guy who clearly had his measure in the same car?

Ferrari are fools if they don't find a way to snap up Ricciardo.

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mds
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by mds »

mikeyg123 wrote: But seriously Ricciardo is a number one driver in a team that has just as much chance as being a top running team as Ferrari in the next few years.
No. Renault have gone massively backwards. They have a lot of ground to catch up and the amount of tokens reduced year after year.
For 2016 they have 25 tokens. 2017, 20. 2018, 15. And then it's all over since it's 3 tokens from then onwards.

I won't say it's impossible but they don't have "just as much chance as Ferrari". Not even close.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by pokerman »

RunningMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RunningMan wrote:He''ll make a good number 2 to Vettel. I think he's a touch over-rated and he's a step down from Kimi IMO. It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign him if Kimi decides to retire and they don't want to get another top driver to pair with Vettel
Why is that, Kimi = Massa, Bottas at the least = Massa, it even seems Vettel = Kimi, what you get with Bottas I guess is potential?
I'd rate Bottas as at best equal to Massa. Massa appears to have the upper hand in 2015 IMO. I wouldn't call Massa a top driver anymore, and whilst Bottas is young/inexperienced, I'd expect him to put away Massa alot more convincingly. For that, I think that replacing Kimi with Bottas would be a slight step backwards for Ferrari.
The logic being that Massa was only a top driver during the time he was paired with Kimi?

Also I myself am not seeing this apparent upper hand that Massa has on Bottas.
Last edited by pokerman on Tue May 05, 2015 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote: But i think Dan would think twice about going to Ferrari, because he knows he's not going to get equal status there.

Vettel is widely believed to have a number 1 status clause in his contract, Hamilton certaintly seems to think so (google it), and im sure it was
mentioned by one of the commentators at the Bahrain GP.

So if thats the case why would you go there when you know your a better driver than the other guy after thrashing him in equal equipment,
yet are not going to get equal treatment at the next team?
This is just the same mantra that many voiced at the end of 2013. Vettel would get #1 status, Ricciardo would be a #2, wouldn't get equal chances, yadda yadda yadda. History proved that was wrong.

From all the sounds coming out of the Ferrari camp I don't think Vettel has a contractual #1 status over Kimi. Hamilton thinking he does is hardly evidence - his opinion on that is worth as much or as little as anyone.

Don't you think that if Ricciardo contemplates going to Ferrari, he would make sure he gets equal chances? And if he isn't assured of that, he would just not go there?
I would question that as well although Kimi has had some strange race strategies relative to Vettel although I put that down more to Vettel having track position on Kimi.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by RunningMan »

pokerman wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RunningMan wrote:He''ll make a good number 2 to Vettel. I think he's a touch over-rated and he's a step down from Kimi IMO. It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign him if Kimi decides to retire and they don't want to get another top driver to pair with Vettel
Why is that, Kimi = Massa, Bottas at the least = Massa, it even seems Vettel = Kimi, what you get with Bottas I guess is potential?
I'd rate Bottas as at best equal to Massa. Massa appears to have the upper hand in 2015 IMO. I wouldn't call Massa a top driver anymore, and whilst Bottas is young/inexperienced, I'd expect him to put away Massa alot more convincingly. For that, I think that replacing Kimi with Bottas would be a slight step backwards for Ferrari.
The logic being that Massa was only a top driver during the time he was paired with Kimi?

Also I myself am not seeing this apparent upper hand that Massa has on Bottas.
Well, because of the results he got, he appeared to be a top driver. He was very nearly world champion after all. However, as time passed, people started to realise that without a car that could qualify near the front, he struggled. I don't think that he was only a top driver when paired with Kimi, I think it was more of a case that when paired with Kimi, he had a top car.
Last edited by RunningMan on Tue May 05, 2015 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bottas to Ferrari!?

Post by mikeyg123 »

RunningMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RunningMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RunningMan wrote:He''ll make a good number 2 to Vettel. I think he's a touch over-rated and he's a step down from Kimi IMO. It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign him if Kimi decides to retire and they don't want to get another top driver to pair with Vettel
Why is that, Kimi = Massa, Bottas at the least = Massa, it even seems Vettel = Kimi, what you get with Bottas I guess is potential?
I'd rate Bottas as at best equal to Massa. Massa appears to have the upper hand in 2015 IMO. I wouldn't call Massa a top driver anymore, and whilst Bottas is young/inexperienced, I'd expect him to put away Massa alot more convincingly. For that, I think that replacing Kimi with Bottas would be a slight step backwards for Ferrari.
The logic being that Massa was only a top driver during the time he was paired with Kimi?

Also I myself am not seeing this apparent upper hand that Massa has on Bottas.
Well, because of the results he got, he appeared to be a top driver. He was very nearly world champion after all. However, as time passed, people started to realise that without a car that good qualify near the front, he struggled. I don't think that he was only a top driver when paired with Kimi, I think it was more of a case that when paired with Kimi, he had a top car.
I agree with this. In 2007-2008 Massa was decent driver in a great car with a slightly below par team mate. He never looked anymore than that before and hasn't since.

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