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9 seasons in a row. Anyone else got this?
Schumacher the only one I can think off (1992-2006)

There is a tiny little difference with Schumacher that Michael has the years 1992-1993-1994-1996-1997-1998-2001-2005 <8 seasons> that his teammates who drove same car couldn't win. Fernando Alonso has 2003-2008-2010-2011-2012-2013 seasons that his teammates couldn't win. Those make 6 seasons for Alonso. Button has 2006 season, Vettel has 2008 and 2013 seasons, Rosberg has 2012 season, Hamilton has 2009 season, Raikkonen has 2004-2009-2012-2013 seasons, Maldonado has 2012 season and Ricciardo has 2014 season that their teammates couldn't win within those years. So this makes the below;

Alonso: 6 seasons
Raikkonen: 4 seasons
Vettel: 2 seasons
Button, Rosberg, Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo: 1 season.

Senna won at least one race: 1985-1993 (9 seasons)

Prost won at least one race: 1981-1990 (10 seasons)

Need4Naiim wrote:There is a tiny little difference with Schumacher that Michael has the years 1992-1993-1994-1996-1997-1998-2001-2005 <8 seasons> that his teammates who drove same car couldn't win. Fernando Alonso has 2003-2008-2010-2011-2012-2013 seasons that his teammates couldn't win. Those make 6 seasons for Alonso. Button has 2006 season, Vettel has 2008 and 2013 seasons, Rosberg has 2012 season, Hamilton has 2009 season, Raikkonen has 2004-2009-2012-2013 seasons, Maldonado has 2012 season and Ricciardo has 2014 season that their teammates couldn't win within those years. So this makes the below;

Alonso: 6 seasons
Raikkonen: 4 seasons
Vettel: 2 seasons
Button, Rosberg, Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo: 1 season.

For the first time in my life, I'd agree that this is a better way to look at things. Stats mean nothing without context.

It's mind boggling that Mark didn't win a race in 2013

VDV23 wrote:For the first time in my life, I'd agree that this is a better way to look at things. Stats mean nothing without context.

It really isn't because even the races won without teammate victory is confounded by the fact that Schumacher, Raikkonen, Vettel and Alonso have had much weaker teammates than Hamilton. You can't tell the people who managed spectacular wins in uncompetitive cars from people in spectacular cars with uncompetitive teammates.

Need4Naiim wrote:There is a tiny little difference with Schumacher that Michael has the years 1992-1993-1994-1996-1997-1998-2001-2005 <8 seasons> that his teammates who drove same car couldn't win. Fernando Alonso has 2003-2008-2010-2011-2012-2013 seasons that his teammates couldn't win. Those make 6 seasons for Alonso. Button has 2006 season, Vettel has 2008 and 2013 seasons, Rosberg has 2012 season, Hamilton has 2009 season, Raikkonen has 2004-2009-2012-2013 seasons, Maldonado has 2012 season and Ricciardo has 2014 season that their teammates couldn't win within those years. So this makes the below;

Alonso: 6 seasons
Raikkonen: 4 seasons
Vettel: 2 seasons
Button, Rosberg, Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo: 1 season.

Vettel only has 2013 because he deliberately ignored team orders and with his engine turned up (while Webber's was turned down) overtook Webber when he had been unable to with equal performance - to then win a race that Webber had covered otherwise - so it cannot count. Vettel also failed to win in 2014 despite his team mate winning three times in a clearly inferior car. In 2008 - Vettel only qualified ahead of his team mate as that team mate had more fuel - and everything worked out for him on the day - good driving but some luck as well - so I think we can rule out Mr Vettel to date in this discussion.

F1Oz wrote:

Need4Naiim wrote:There is a tiny little difference with Schumacher that Michael has the years 1992-1993-1994-1996-1997-1998-2001-2005 <8 seasons> that his teammates who drove same car couldn't win. Fernando Alonso has 2003-2008-2010-2011-2012-2013 seasons that his teammates couldn't win. Those make 6 seasons for Alonso. Button has 2006 season, Vettel has 2008 and 2013 seasons, Rosberg has 2012 season, Hamilton has 2009 season, Raikkonen has 2004-2009-2012-2013 seasons, Maldonado has 2012 season and Ricciardo has 2014 season that their teammates couldn't win within those years. So this makes the below;

Alonso: 6 seasons
Raikkonen: 4 seasons
Vettel: 2 seasons
Button, Rosberg, Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo: 1 season.

Vettel only has 2013 because he deliberately ignored team orders and with his engine turned up (while Webber's was turned down) overtook Webber when he had been unable to with equal performance to win a race that Webber had covered otherwise - so it cannot count. Vettel also failed to win in 2014 despite his team mate winning three times in a clearly inferior car. In 2008 - Vettel only qualified ahead of his team mate as that team mate had more fuel - and everything worked out for him on the day - good driving but some luck as well - so I think we can rule out Mr Vettel to date in this discussion.

Thanks F1Oz for your explanations. I took my notes.

F1Tyrant wrote:

VDV23 wrote:For the first time in my life, I'd agree that this is a better way to look at things. Stats mean nothing without context.

It really isn't because even the races won without teammate victory is confounded by the fact that Schumacher, Raikkonen, Vettel and Alonso have had much weaker teammates than Hamilton. You can't tell the people who managed spectacular wins in uncompetitive cars from people in spectacular cars with uncompetitive teammates.

This changes nothing too. Hamilton his own record of consecutive wins, Raikkonen has 4 seasons in which he took his teams victories single-handedly, Button has ....etc. Every record has some value inside it and i value Schumi's 8 seasons and Alonso's 6 seasons as a direct sign of greatness. Sure Vettel has many youngest ever records to his name, but he has to increase his total of 2 if he want to be considered as a Legend one day. We know how hard and crucial it was for Kubica in Canada 2008, for Trulli in Monaco 2004, for Hamilton in Singapore 2009, for Maldonado in Spain 2012, for Alonso in Fuji 2008, for Button in Hungary 2006, for Kimi in Spa 2004 and 2009, for Vettel in Monza 2008.....etc.

Taking the wins single-handedly for your team at a given season is a massive accomplishment for the winning driver. I still remember the smiles of Olivier Panis (Monaco 96) and Montoya (Brazil 2004 podium).

F1Tyrant wrote:

VDV23 wrote:For the first time in my life, I'd agree that this is a better way to look at things. Stats mean nothing without context.

It really isn't because even the races won without teammate victory is confounded by the unsubstantiated statement that Schumacher, Raikkonen, Vettel and Alonso have had much weaker teammates than Hamilton. You can't tell the people who managed spectacular wins in uncompetitive cars from people in spectacular cars with uncompetitive teammates.

Fixed that for you. The only year Hamilton won with a team-mate that couldn't it was Kovalainen, a guy who could barely justify a seat at the back of the grid and never got near the points again in his career. To say that beating him is a better achievement than beating the likes of Barrichello, Massa, Webber etc is just crazy.

Need4Naiim wrote:This changes nothing too.

It does because it disadvantages drivers with competitive (or world champion) teammates such as Senna, Prost, Hamilton.

Need4Naiim wrote:We know how hard and crucial it was for Kubica in Canada 2008, for Trulli in Monaco 2004, for Hamilton in Singapore 2009, for Maldonado in Spain 2012, for Alonso in Fuji 2008, for Button in Hungary 2006, for Kimi in Spa 2004 and 2009, for Vettel in Monza 2008.....etc.

Look at the quality of the teammates though: Kubica beat Heidfeld, Hamilton beat Kovalainen, Maldonado beat B Senna, Alonso beat Piquet Jr, Button beat Barrichello, Kimi beat Coulthard and Massa/Badoer/Fisi. Only Trulli beating Alonso stands out. All I'm saying is it's very difficult to rack up seasons where only one driver wins unless your teammate is weak.

steoc4 wrote:Fixed that for you. The only year Hamilton won with a team-mate that couldn't it was Kovalainen, a guy who could barely justify a seat at the back of the grid and never got near the points again in his career. To say that beating him is a better achievement than beating the likes of Barrichello, Massa, Webber etc is just crazy.

Kovalainen performed well in 2007 and utterly murdered Fisichella. Then he got rather fortunate in 2008 with his Hungarian victory. Since then he's had more competitive teammates than Schumacher or Alonso ever had in Button and Rosberg who are a cut above Barrichello, Massa and Webber.

Prost won in 11 seasons, 8 of which his team mate also won a race. It is only really this era of super reliable cars that you don't get even a number 2 driver sneak a win like Heikki did at Hungary 2008. The unreliable Red Bulls made sure Webber usually took one a season too.

Berger in 1990 is the only year one of Sennas competitive team mates didn't win a race, dicounting pay drivers Johny Dumfries & Nakajima and Andretti. Ellio De Angelis, Prost and Berger won races in 5 of the 6 seasons Senna did.

Even Michaels team mates took wins in 1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004, 2006 and 2011 when Michael failed himself to win. Once Michael had proper race winning machinery and not an outright number 2 like the Benetton days.

In the last 11 seasons of Michaels career he won in 8 seasons. His team mate won in 8 seasons.

F1Oz wrote:

Need4Naiim wrote:There is a tiny little difference with Schumacher that Michael has the years 1992-1993-1994-1996-1997-1998-2001-2005 <8 seasons> that his teammates who drove same car couldn't win. Fernando Alonso has 2003-2008-2010-2011-2012-2013 seasons that his teammates couldn't win. Those make 6 seasons for Alonso. Button has 2006 season, Vettel has 2008 and 2013 seasons, Rosberg has 2012 season, Hamilton has 2009 season, Raikkonen has 2004-2009-2012-2013 seasons, Maldonado has 2012 season and Ricciardo has 2014 season that their teammates couldn't win within those years. So this makes the below;

Alonso: 6 seasons
Raikkonen: 4 seasons
Vettel: 2 seasons
Button, Rosberg, Hamilton, Maldonado, Ricciardo: 1 season.

Vettel only has 2013 because he deliberately ignored team orders and with his engine turned up (while Webber's was turned down) overtook Webber when he had been unable to with equal performance - to then win a race that Webber had covered otherwise - so it cannot count. Vettel also failed to win in 2014 despite his team mate winning three times in a clearly inferior car. In 2008 - Vettel only qualified ahead of his team mate as that team mate had more fuel - and everything worked out for him on the day - good driving but some luck as well - so I think we can rule out Mr Vettel to date in this discussion.

While it's true that the team asked Vettel to hold back and let Webber win, there's absolutely no evidence that Webber would have beaten him if the team had just stayed out of it and let them race fair - Vettel's strategy was geared towards overtaking at the end, he was on faster tyres than Webber, who had been on the faster tyres in the previous stint which is why he had track position. You say Webber was on a different engine mode but the team said that they were on the same engine modes, and that rumour is just something that has stuck around in the minds of detractors to be used as something to hit Vettel with regardless of the fact that it is untrue.

The reality is that Mark defended hard but Seb beat him fair and square, the only anomaly being that the team didn't want him to. In the previous season at Silverstone they'd asked Webber to hold station in 2nd, but Webber himself ignored those team orders. The difference being that on that day Seb simply outraced Mark and kept the lead, just like he outraced Mark to take the lead in Malaysia. Plus of course the media and public supported Webber on that day for being a "true racer" and not letting team orders hold him back, in stark contrast to the reaction to Vettel doing the exact same thing, but doing it more skilfully.

As for your claims about 2008 - again that's just unsubstantiated Vettel bashing. See the facts of the race here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/09/17/c ... talian-gp/ - analysis shows that Vettel was significantly faster than Bourdais at all times, and even if Bourdais hadn't stalled he wouldn't have been anywhere near his team-mate.

lamo wrote: Even Michaels team mates took wins in 1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004, 2006 and 2011 when Michael failed himself to win. Once Michael had proper race winning machinery and not an outright number 2 like the Benetton days.

In the last 11 seasons of Michaels career he won in 8 seasons. His team mate won in 8 seasons.

Are you seriously saying that when looking at Michael's stats we should completely exclude his entire career pre-1999, but we should include both a year that he missed half of due to a broken leg, and include his comeback from retirement in his 40s when he was way past his best? How long did you spend trying to work out which precise years to arbitrarily cut out to try and diminish his record?

F1Tyrant wrote:

Need4Naiim wrote:This changes nothing too.

It does because it disadvantages drivers with competitive (or world champion) teammates....

No stat disadvantages another. Schumacher's 15 consecutive winning seasons CAN NOT disadvantage Fernando. But Michael's 8 seasons of getting team victories by himself tell that he is ahead of Alonso's 6 seasons, Raikkonen's 4 seasons and Vettel's 2 seasons.

I wanted to show that the context is needed when showing selective stats. For example; we can not bash Michael for not having youngest ever championship record on his side, because he was not driving any title-capable car at that time. But it does not mean that Vettel's youngest ever records are worthless.

Hence, no need to be defensive. Every racer has another record that holds some weight in it. And every racer wants to collect the team victories all by himself.

Why are people even mentioning Vettel? Vettel has 2014 where he failed to win but his team mate didn't!

pubpokerplayer wrote:Why are people even mentioning Vettel? Vettel has 2014 where he failed to win but his team mate didn't!

Because we mention Alonso and Schumacher too.

Need4Naiim wrote:

pubpokerplayer wrote:Why are people even mentioning Vettel? Vettel has 2014 where he failed to win but his team mate didn't!

Because we mention Alonso and Schumacher too.

When did Alonso and Schumacher have team mates win races in a season that they failed too?

Alonso 2004 and Schumi 2013?

Covalent wrote:Alonso 2004 and Schumi 2013?

I completely forget Schumachers second career when discussing them. So why have they been brought up? I don't really know why people can't just say fair play to Hamilton it is some record maybe have a estimate on how long the run continues.

I mean as you've just proven above 3 drivers mentioned on this topic have failed to win races when their teammates have won! Obviously unable to happen to Hamilton as he has won a race every season!

I just answered the question asked

lamo wrote:Prost won in 11 seasons, 8 of which his team mate also won a race. It is only really this era of super reliable cars that you don't get even a number 2 driver sneak a win like Heikki did at Hungary 2008. The unreliable Red Bulls made sure Webber usually took one a season too.

Berger in 1990 is the only year one of Sennas competitive team mates didn't win a race, dicounting pay drivers Johny Dumfries & Nakajima and Andretti. Ellio De Angelis, Prost and Berger won races in 5 of the 6 seasons Senna did.

Even Michaels team mates took wins in 1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004, 2006 and 2011 when Michael failed himself to win. Once Michael had proper race winning machinery and not an outright number 2 like the Benetton days.

In the last 11 seasons of Michaels career he won in 8 seasons. His team mate won in 8 seasons.

2001 is incorrect. Rubens did not win that year.

Why would you discount three of Senna's team mates on the basis they were pay drivers? They still show that it's not all down to the car.

And even in this era of super reliable cars the driver still has to make the difference. Kimi won twice at Lotus, while Grosjean won nothing.

pubpokerplayer wrote:

Covalent wrote:Alonso 2004 and Schumi 2013?

I completely forget Schumachers second career when discussing them. So why have they been brought up? I don't really know why people can't just say fair play to Hamilton it is some record maybe have a estimate on how long the run continues.

I mean as you've just proven above 3 drivers mentioned on this topic have failed to win races when their teammates have won! Obviously unable to happen to Hamilton as he has won a race every season!

yes but in all fairness you have to look at the equipment he's had at his disposal and his team mates' records are relevant as to how impressive a feat it is. 2009 was a great achievement IMO as the car wasn't particularly impressive, but otherwise he's had front runners pretty much his entire career, or at least ones capable of challenging at the front on occasion.

It's a nice statistic and shows Lewis is a very capable driver, but I don't think it's as impressive as first appears because it's not like he's managed to pull off an upset with his car.

F1Tyrant wrote:

Need4Naiim wrote:This changes nothing too.

It does because it disadvantages drivers with competitive (or world champion) teammates such as Senna, Prost, Hamilton.

However, it is still enough for Senna and Prost to show their difference over a full career;

Prost has 1981-1983-1986-1987 seasons that he fulled his teams victories, <4 seasons>

Senna has 1986-1987-1990-1993 that his teammate couldn't win. <4 seasons>

Hamilton has 2009. <1 season>*

Montoya has 2004. <1 season>

Ralf has 2002. <1 season>

Trulli has 2004. <1 season>

Kubica has 2008. <1 season>

Panis has 1996. <1 season>

Frentzen has 1999. <1 season>

Hill has 1998. <1 season>

Maldonado has 2012. <1 season>*

Rosberg has 2012. <1 season>*

Fisichella has 2003. <1 season>

Button has 2006. <1 season>*

Ricciardo has 2014. <1 season>*


*Career continues.

Need4Naiim wrote: Taking the wins single-handedly for your team at a given season is a massive accomplishment for the winning driver. I still remember the smiles of Olivier Panis (Monaco 96) and Montoya (Brazil 2004 podium).

Yep, the win that Schumi got for Ferrari in '05 was HUGE!

TheOtherGuy wrote:

Need4Naiim wrote: Taking the wins single-handedly for your team at a given season is a massive accomplishment for the winning driver. I still remember the smiles of Olivier Panis (Monaco 96) and Montoya (Brazil 2004 podium).

Yep, the win that Schumi got for Ferrari in '05 was HUGE!

Yep, Bridgestone is not to blame for the lack of show, and they deserved that win 100%.

Need4Naiim wrote:

TheOtherGuy wrote:

Need4Naiim wrote: Taking the wins single-handedly for your team at a given season is a massive accomplishment for the winning driver. I still remember the smiles of Olivier Panis (Monaco 96) and Montoya (Brazil 2004 podium).

Yep, the win that Schumi got for Ferrari in '05 was HUGE!

Yep, Bridgestone is not to blame for the lack of show, and they deserved that win 100%.

Zoue wrote:

pubpokerplayer wrote:

Covalent wrote:Alonso 2004 and Schumi 2013?

I completely forget Schumachers second career when discussing them. So why have they been brought up? I don't really know why people can't just say fair play to Hamilton it is some record maybe have a estimate on how long the run continues.

I mean as you've just proven above 3 drivers mentioned on this topic have failed to win races when their teammates have won! Obviously unable to happen to Hamilton as he has won a race every season!

yes but in all fairness you have to look at the equipment he's had at his disposal and his team mates' records are relevant as to how impressive a feat it is. 2009 was a great achievement IMO as the car wasn't particularly impressive, but otherwise he's had front runners pretty much his entire career, or at least ones capable of challenging at the front on occasion.

It's a nice statistic and shows Lewis is a very capable driver, but I don't think it's as impressive as first appears because it's not like he's managed to pull off an upset with his car.

I'm a Hamilton fan and that stat is only impressive because of 2013 and 2009 to be honest.

In 2013 he won with a car that was not as good as the Lotus and Redbull in that race.
2009 he won with a car that was basically a backmarker at the beginning of the season.

Those are the two years where he might not have won a race but did. The rest of the time he was expected to win because the cars were so good.

Of course Hamilton is nothing special and the stats in question are not impressive as he has always had front running cars(who knows why?) unlike Alonso -whose reputation certainly exceeds his talent- who always has slow cars(who knows why?).

Ferrari was doomed to fail and languish in the 15th place -by the majority here- without Alonso on board.

Take the simplistic view to look at the teammates comparison ignoring on purpose crashes, broken gear box seals, team orders, pit stop priorities, #1 status at your own peril.

Pullrod wrote:Of course Hamilton is nothing special and the stats in question are not impressive as he has always had front running cars(who knows why?) unlike Alonso -whose reputation certainly exceeds his talent- who always has slow cars(who knows why?).

Ferrari was doomed to fail and languish in the 15th place -by the majority here- without Alonso on board.

Take the simplistic view to look at the teammates comparison ignoring on purpose crashes, broken gear box seals, team orders, pit stop priorities, #1 status at your own peril.

"at your own peril?" Why? What's likely to happen?

I don't know why you are specifically referencing Alonso, but the simple fact is that while a win every season shows that Lewis is clearly a capable driver, as a stat on its own it doesn't say a lot other than that he's enjoyed a succession of great cars.

Most of the WDCs have won a race in a year when they've had a car capable of doing so. Kimi has never had a team mate win a race in a year where he hasn't, for example, but in 2004, 2012 and 2013 he was the sole race winner for his team, like Lewis in 2009. That's a more impressive stat IMO, especially when you consider that in 2004 his team mate was a multiple race winner himself. And you can dismiss Alonso all you want, but if he couldn't win a race in last year's Ferrari it's extremely doubtful that Lewis would have been able to. The fact that the Ferrari couldn't win was not because of its drivers.

Wasn't Kimi also his team's sole race winner in 2009 too ?

mas wrote:Wasn't Kimi also his team's sole race winner in 2009 too ?

He was in 2004, 2012 and 2013 as well.

mas wrote:Wasn't Kimi also his team's sole race winner in 2009 too ?

yep, that too. Did a great job at Spa keeping Fisi behind, Course, that probably wouldn't be possible anymore now that we have DRS!

Still, that's four years Kimi has managed a win where his team mates didn't. Not bad at all. Shows he's a driver who can make a difference

Kimi has never had a team mate win a race in a year where he hasn't

Then he has to get busy this year then .

mas wrote:Kimi has never had a team mate win a race in a year where he hasn't

Then he has to get busy this year then .

2002, Coulthard won Monaco.

mas wrote:Kimi has never had a team mate win a race in a year where he hasn't

Then he has to get busy this year then .

yep, sure does! I think that's why he was so peed after Malaysia. He knew he'd thrown away a golden chance for a win by his crappy qualifying. Still, he has a few races to get it right

Laura23 wrote:

mas wrote:Kimi has never had a team mate win a race in a year where he hasn't

Then he has to get busy this year then .

2002, Coulthard won Monaco.

you're absolutely right. I missed that one

kleefton wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pubpokerplayer wrote:

Covalent wrote:Alonso 2004 and Schumi 2013?

I completely forget Schumachers second career when discussing them. So why have they been brought up? I don't really know why people can't just say fair play to Hamilton it is some record maybe have a estimate on how long the run continues.

I mean as you've just proven above 3 drivers mentioned on this topic have failed to win races when their teammates have won! Obviously unable to happen to Hamilton as he has won a race every season!

yes but in all fairness you have to look at the equipment he's had at his disposal and his team mates' records are relevant as to how impressive a feat it is. 2009 was a great achievement IMO as the car wasn't particularly impressive, but otherwise he's had front runners pretty much his entire career, or at least ones capable of challenging at the front on occasion.

It's a nice statistic and shows Lewis is a very capable driver, but I don't think it's as impressive as first appears because it's not like he's managed to pull off an upset with his car.

I'm a Hamilton fan and that stat is only impressive because of 2013 and 2009 to be honest.

In 2013 he won with a car that was not as good as the Lotus and Redbull in that race.
2009 he won with a car that was basically a backmarker at the beginning of the season.

Those are the two years where he might not have won a race but did. The rest of the time he was expected to win because the cars were so good.

Yup, a rather unremarkable stat because Hamilton is the only driver on the grid that has been in a top car capable of earning wins since he stepped into the sport.

Vettel could have had the same record.