Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Forum rules
Please read the forum rules
Post Reply
User avatar
Placid
Posts: 2467
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:14 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Placid »

Due to the high prices of sanctioning fee and high prices, Indy Car principal Mark Miles wants to become the alternative of Formula 1. This is also the real reason former F1, GP2 and F3 drivers such as Stefano Colletti, Luca Filippi, Ed Jones, Felix Serralles and former Marussia driver Max Chilton have looked at Indy Car to boost their careers. Now the German GP is gone for 2015. This could also be a huge advantage to have Indy Car races in former F1 venues.

Mark Miles in an interview with AUTOSPORT.
We believe that there is a not-so-latent appetite for IndyCar racing around the world. I think there is a great value proposition when you look at where we can come in, and what we can offer compared with Formula 1 when you think about price versus value. We don't have to charge the kind of sanctioning fees that race promoters in countries, and sovereign funds are paying for Formula 1. But I think we can offer a product that is seen as uniquely American, but is extraordinarily exciting racing. So I think there is a big opportunity for us.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118188

User avatar
Need4Naiim
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Location: Pandemonium Fortress

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Need4Naiim »

This is very good -albeit a bit late- news for Continuous Racing Spirit but not good for "race for show, be an overblown brand" mentality.

Rallying, WTCC and LeMans are technologically advanced to be excited too. Formula 1 is not alone anymore once it loses competition inside.
I am rewarded with a new World; a place that is away from dictated formality, one-sided freedom, disgusting but legal sarcasms, fake happiness displayed by masked rulers... ®

j man
Posts: 3494
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Location: UK

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by j man »

I say go for it! A bit of rivalry might drive F1 to get its house in order. By offering a cheaper, more fan-friendly experience in locations where there is actually a demand for motor racing this could work.

Warnzee
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Warnzee »

If they came to the UK and raced on the full GP circuit at Brands Hatch then i'd definitely go and watch. I don't go to Silverstone to watch the F1 due to the cost, so an affordable international series of fast, open wheel single-seaters would be awesome.
Oooh I'm so badass... I've got a z in my name.

User avatar
dizlexik
Posts: 7796
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by dizlexik »

Competition is good. I heaven't seen Indy Car for ages, but I if they want to compete with F1 I might watch it.
eeee

User avatar
Need4Naiim
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:14 pm
Location: Pandemonium Fortress

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Need4Naiim »

Very possibly i am alone at this, but i think Formula 1 needs tracks like Indianapolis or Texas Speedway. 2 ovals per season can be attractive due to different racing perspective. The Indy races from 2000-2007 offered something different with the oval section. I still remember on board view from Jacques's BAR, passing over the third section with max revs, pushing Honda engine to its limits.
I am rewarded with a new World; a place that is away from dictated formality, one-sided freedom, disgusting but legal sarcasms, fake happiness displayed by masked rulers... ®

User avatar
jimmyj
Posts: 1896
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:53 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by jimmyj »

:thumbup: :thumbup:
j man wrote:I say go for it! A bit of rivalry might drive F1 to get its house in order. By offering a cheaper, more fan-friendly experience in locations where there is actually a demand for motor racing this could work.

User avatar
AngusWolfe
Posts: 3796
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by AngusWolfe »

There is a reason technalogical advancements are made during war time. A competitor might be exactly what F1 needs.
IV
Image

User avatar
Lt. Drebin
Posts: 4796
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Lt. Drebin »

If they could split, and make one oval series and one racetrack series, that would be great. Oval is not well accepted in Europe, and it looks like it never will be. But if a high speed racetrack formula series like Indycar will come to Europe and start racing on historic F1 tracks, with, say, half of the grid from Europe, than it might really work.
The end is near

User avatar
ShaneM
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:34 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by ShaneM »

Tony George ruined open wheel racing in North America, and one of the worlds greatest Motorsports events. He deserves nothing.

Herb
Posts: 2356
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Herb »

Need4Naiim wrote:Very possibly i am alone at this, but i think Formula 1 needs tracks like Indianapolis or Texas Speedway. 2 ovals per season can be attractive due to different racing perspective. The Indy races from 2000-2007 offered something different with the oval section. I still remember on board view from Jacques's BAR, passing over the third section with max revs, pushing Honda engine to its limits.


I agree.

8O

Nosebuckle
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:34 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Nosebuckle »

ShaneM wrote:Tony George ruined open wheel racing in North America, and one of the worlds greatest Motorsports events. He deserves nothing.


I've nothing but ill will towards Mr. George, but his whole deal was making the Indy 500 an even bigger centerpiece to the Indycar spectacle - wouldn't an expansion of Indycar in the direction of being a real alternative series to F1 undermine that? So long as that means having more races on the quality circuits in North America and perhaps some races in Europe.

Personally I'd love to see Indycar return as a F1 alternative, even if the best talents are F1 rejects and geezers. It's not like this hasn't worked out before :)

PRFAN
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:54 am

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by PRFAN »

Placid wrote:Due to the high prices of sanctioning fee and high prices, Indy Car principal Mark Miles wants to become the alternative of Formula 1. This is also the real reason former F1, GP2 and F3 drivers such as Stefano Colletti, Luca Filippi, Ed Jones, Felix Serralles and former Marussia driver Max Chilton have looked at Indy Car to boost their careers. Now the German GP is gone for 2015. This could also be a huge advantage to have Indy Car races in former F1 venues.

Mark Miles in an interview with AUTOSPORT.
We believe that there is a not-so-latent appetite for IndyCar racing around the world. I think there is a great value proposition when you look at where we can come in, and what we can offer compared with Formula 1 when you think about price versus value. We don't have to charge the kind of sanctioning fees that race promoters in countries, and sovereign funds are paying for Formula 1. But I think we can offer a product that is seen as uniquely American, but is extraordinarily exciting racing. So I think there is a big opportunity for us.


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118188


Heir to the Don Q rum empire!
Nice to see a Caribbean racer in the series. About time!

pokerman
Posts: 35345
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by pokerman »

Need4Naiim wrote:Very possibly i am alone at this, but i think Formula 1 needs tracks like Indianapolis or Texas Speedway. 2 ovals per season can be attractive due to different racing perspective. The Indy races from 2000-2007 offered something different with the oval section. I still remember on board view from Jacques's BAR, passing over the third section with max revs, pushing Honda engine to its limits.

You're not suggesting that F1 cars race on full oval tracks?
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

Saz
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:19 pm
Location: In the misty morning, on the edge of time.

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Saz »

Warnzee wrote:If they came to the UK and raced on the full GP circuit at Brands Hatch then i'd definitely go and watch. I don't go to Silverstone to watch the F1 due to the cost, so an affordable international series of fast, open wheel single-seaters would be awesome.


:thumbup: Pretty much this. F1 is unfortunately way out of my price league. I remember going to Silverstone with my dad as a kid, but only because he got some company tickets! I never have been able to afford to go as an adult, which is a shame.
The two most powerful warriors are patience and time…so remember: great achievements take time, there is no overnight success.

User avatar
moby
Posts: 8072
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by moby »

I can not see F1 ever using oval tracks, they would be just ridiculously fast. If ti became worthwhile for a team to go for outright speed, they would be cornering so close to the tyre limit that gust would flip them.

I am also unsure if most F1 fans would sit through a full oval race.

User avatar
mcdo
Posts: 10289
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by mcdo »

pokerman wrote:
Need4Naiim wrote:Very possibly i am alone at this, but i think Formula 1 needs tracks like Indianapolis or Texas Speedway. 2 ovals per season can be attractive due to different racing perspective. The Indy races from 2000-2007 offered something different with the oval section. I still remember on board view from Jacques's BAR, passing over the third section with max revs, pushing Honda engine to its limits.

You're not suggesting that F1 cars race on full oval tracks?

It'd be a bit of a laugh! Pirelli would have a job on their hands
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost

RaggedMan
Posts: 4825
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by RaggedMan »

If they do it in a way that they're actually trying to be another F1 it won't work, but fortunately I don't think that's what is being suggested.

The best way for making Indycar more international is to just be themselves and go racing the way they do now only do it on more tracks outside of the Americas as an alrenative to F1 instead of a replacement of it.

The problem with the idea is that one of the draws of running in Indycar is it's affordability and when you start talking about shipping a racing series all over creation things get costly, quickly.

Maybe a sister European series? I don't know.
{Insert clever sig line here}

shoot999
Posts: 3087
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by shoot999 »

Not sure what they are offering here that Cart didnt offer around 2001/2 when Germany, UK, Japan, Australia, etc. were on the calendar.

ReservoirDog
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by ReservoirDog »

If I wanted to see third grade drivers compete, I'd go to my local racetrack.

User avatar
Amon
Posts: 3479
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:16 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Amon »

RaggedMan wrote:If they do it in a way that they're actually trying to be another F1 it won't work, but fortunately I don't think that's what is being suggested.

The best way for making Indycar more international is to just be themselves and go racing the way they do now only do it on more tracks outside of the Americas as an alrenative to F1 instead of a replacement of it.

The problem with the idea is that one of the draws of running in Indycar is it's affordability and when you start talking about shipping a racing series all over creation things get costly, quickly.

Maybe a sister European series? I don't know.


Pretty much this. I for one am not interested in a series if the majority of the tracks are ovals and would mainly be on the American continent. It needs to have a worldwide character and a good diversity of tracks. I for one would find it odd cars going around in circles in less that a minute per lap.
F1 fan since 1989
Image

User avatar
mcdo
Posts: 10289
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by mcdo »

ReservoirDog wrote:If I wanted to see third grade drivers compete, I'd go to my local racetrack.

Yes because Montoya, Barrichello and Sato have found it so easy in recent times
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost

User avatar
Blake
Posts: 6819
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Nebraska, USA
Contact:

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Blake »

ReservoirDog wrote:If I wanted to see third grade drivers compete, I'd go to my local racetrack.


Never fails.... be it NASCAR or IRL. Why do you even bother, other than to see if you can stir the pot ... and there is a term for that.
:thumbdown:
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

User avatar
TheOtherGuy
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:05 am

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by TheOtherGuy »

It had it's chance to compete with F1, it blew it. Starting with Tony George and ending with the series going bust.

It is what it is now, I still enjoy it very much and watch the races but the technology and the driver talent will never be the pinnacle. I can't really see it ever being more than a regional series.
Image
"You mad, bro?"

"Noise is a form of energy and the less you hear means the more you use for propulsion" - Ulrich Baretzky

Honda Quick
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:29 pm
Contact:

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Honda Quick »

shoot999 wrote:Not sure what they are offering here that Cart didnt offer around 2001/2 when Germany, UK, Japan, Australia, etc. were on the calendar.

Potentially NOT releasing a movie with Stallone driving alongside the spitting images of heir Schumacher and youngling Button? :D
[ Kimi Raikkonen ]
2007 Formula 1 World Drivers Champion

User avatar
moby
Posts: 8072
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by moby »

Not having a dig at indy here, I really don't know, but what is the difference between indy and a spec series F1 ?

Ashberto
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:19 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Ashberto »

I'd like to see a Euro-Indy series, and would certainly go. F1 snobbery for spec-series is mistaken imo, and the so-called pinnacle of motor sport is over-rated, over-priced and increasingly over-there for European fans. Bring it on!

User avatar
Placid
Posts: 2467
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:14 am
Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Placid »

And I like to see the Indy Lights get a chance to showcase their skills. And Eurointernational has committed into entering the Indy Lights in 2016.

User avatar
Blake
Posts: 6819
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Nebraska, USA
Contact:

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Blake »

moby wrote:Not having a dig at indy here, I really don't know, but what is the difference between indy and a spec series F1 ?


Here is an article from a couple of years ago that I linked in another thread that might give you some ides of the business end of the INDY series.

Currently, Indy is running about half of their races on Ovals and the rest on Street/Road courses. That requires a dramatically different car than the F1 cars as the strain on a car running in excess of 230mph on a 2.5 mile oval such as at Indianapolis for a distance of 500 miles is a lot different than the requirements of the cars for the road courses. An F1 car would fail miserably, to my understanding, at IMS for example without substantial modifications, and an Indy car would be slow on an F1 track by comparison to an F1 car.

Here are the chassis & engine specifications for the 2014 Dallara INDY cars...

http://www.indycar.com/Fan-Info/INDYCAR-101/The-Car-Dallara/IndyCar-Series-Chassis-Specifications

I am not an engineering type, so I don't get involved in that aspect as much. What I can say is that I have been to multiple Indy 500s, and to all but last year's USGP since 2000.... and to be honest, I enjoy them both... greatly. Despite the ignorance displayed on many F1 forums, Ovals are a legitimate racing venue, and they do require Skills on the part of the driver. And they also appeal to the racing fan in a different way. If you have an open mind and attend the race to enjoy extremely fast racing, drafting, and close side by side, nose to tail racing, then you will enjoy an Oval race.

I have never understood why some have so much trouble enjoying both F1 and INDY and/or NASCAR... They are all three legitimate forms of auto racing and they have their strengths (and weaknesses). Obviously, I enjoy them all, but to each his/her own.

Hope this helps, moby
Last edited by Blake on Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

User avatar
Flash2k11
Posts: 2932
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:06 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Flash2k11 »

Indy is pretty fun to watch, but given that this is the very year they've gone ahead with the aero kits (which bring the unstable air for the car following problems that F1 has 'enjoyed' for a good while now) it seems an awfully strange time to start packaging itself as some sort of low cost alternative to F1 when it appears to almost be beginning to move in the same direction.

Different horses for different courses as far as the cars are concerned though.
2018 Pick 10 Champion

User avatar
nixxxon
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by nixxxon »

They always wanted to be the F1 alternative, but you simply can't compare. Its just another spec series

Colo134
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:57 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Colo134 »

ShaneM wrote:Tony George ruined open wheel racing in North America, and one of the worlds greatest Motorsports events. He deserves nothing.


indeed this is true. Indy Car is an uninspiring spec series, and it has been since the split. At least Champ Car more or less kept what Indy Car used to be up until CART folded in 2003, but after that it was only a matter of time for it's failure.... on both sides.

FTG

User avatar
Blake
Posts: 6819
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Location: Nebraska, USA
Contact:

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by Blake »

Champcar folded because it was badly mismanaged...and because it took too long to recognize the value of the Indy 500 if it was to have any chance of survival. Whether one liked him or not, Tony George had the "hammer". I enjoy Champ car, no question, watched it whenever I could... but the 500 was the Monaco & the Daytona to American open wheel racing.

I know a lot of American racing fans are still incredibly bitter over the whole split and their dislike/hatred towards Tony George prohibits them from every accepting the IRL/INDY as a creditable racing series, and that is unfortunate for INDY and for those fans. I am not saying that is the case with those who have posted here, but I know it certainly has been in the past when the topic has come up with some of our forumites.

Yes, INDY is a spec car series, but it is not "just another spec. series". Show me other spec car series that bring in around a quarter of million fans. I would like to ask those who dislike ovals (and more specifically INDY) have you ever attended an Indy 500? If not, you have done yourself a great disservice.

All that said, it would be very difficult for INDY CAR to become an F1 alternative in the manner that most seem to be thinking. If you want the F1 alternative to be like F1 "lite", then simply focus on the F1 feeder series and be happy as hell. However, if you are looking for an alternative open wheel racing series with serious speed, highly competitive with multiple driver being in a position to actually win a race, not just praying for a podium, that has a mix of driving venues from ovals to road courses............. then..... INDY CAR is indeed an F1 alternative. All you have to do is open your mind and accept it.
:)
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

User avatar
moby
Posts: 8072
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm

Re: Due to High costs, Indy Car wants to be F1 alternative

Post by moby »

Blake wrote:
moby wrote:Not having a dig at indy here, I really don't know, but what is the difference between indy and a spec series F1 ?


Here is an article from a couple of years ago that I linked in another thread that might give you some ides of the business end of the INDY series.

Currently, Indy is running about half of their races on Ovals and the rest on Street/Road courses. That requires a dramatically different car than the F1 cars as the strain on a car running in excess of 230mph on a 2.5 mile oval such as at Indianapolis for a distance of 500 miles is a lot different than the requirements of the cars for the road courses. An F1 car would fail miserably, to my understanding, at IMS for example without substantial modifications, and an Indy car would be slow on an F1 track by comparison to an F1 car.

Here are the chassis & engine specifications for the 2014 Dallara INDY cars...

http://www.indycar.com/Fan-Info/INDYCAR-101/The-Car-Dallara/IndyCar-Series-Chassis-Specifications

I am not an engineering type, so I don't get involved in that aspect as much. What I can say is that I have been to multiple Indy 500s, and to all but last year's USGP since 2000.... and to be honest, I enjoy them both... greatly. Despite the ignorance displayed on many F1 forums, Ovals are a legitimate racing venue, and they do require Skills on the part of the driver. And they also appeal to the racing fan in a different way. If you have an open mind and attend the race to enjoy extremely fast racing, drafting, and close side by side, nose to tail racing, then you will enjoy an Oval race.

I have never understood why some have so much trouble enjoying both F1 and INDY and/or NASCAR... They are all three legitimate forms of auto racing and they have their strengths (and weaknesses). Obviously, I enjoy them all, but to each his/her own.

Hope this helps, moby



Thanks Blake, Have not read it yet, will do though. What I was asking more than anything else is more or less is it as restricted as F1?

I had a glance through stuff a few years back when there was an event in UK (Rockingham) but never made it.

The one thing more than any other which would pull me away from F1 is if it was far less restricted. I know there are different engines, but is it a boiler plated series, or is each car/engine different?

Post Reply