No German race!!

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antz182
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No German race!!

Post by antz182 »

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12040 ... in-2015?98 apparently time's run out to do a deal. I get the feeling F1 is dying a sad, slow death. By season's end, we'll probably loose a team or two. Cota could be gone and Red Bull might walk.

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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

I don't think losing Germany is as bad as is being made out. Sure it's sad losing a race but no one in Germany wants to watch the Grand Prix. There's little point going to a race to have the stands less than half full. I still don't understand why F1 still persists with China either for the same reason.
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antz182
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Re: No German race!!

Post by antz182 »

It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Germans won 9 of last 15 championships, in remaining 6 they had three times vice-champions and two time 3rd placed driver. And now they have no race anymore. Bah, more bad news.
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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

antz182 wrote:It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

German fans have never connected with Rosberg because they consider him a Finn who grew up in Monaco and they never connected with Vettel for reasons I don't know. Mercedes are based in the UK with mainly British mechanics and personnel which much smart a bit in Germany as well.

Since Michael Schumacher retired they lost their hero and since his accident I think for many F1 just became a thing in the past. Germans were so passionate about Schuey that I think anyone who was going to came after him had no chance. They had no space in their hearts left for Vettel.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by RaggedMan »

Laura23 wrote:
antz182 wrote:It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

German fans have never connected with Rosberg because they consider him a Finn who grew up in Monaco and they never connected with Vettel for reasons I don't know. Mercedes are based in the UK with mainly British mechanics and personnel which much smart a bit in Germany as well.

Since Michael Schumacher retired they lost their hero and since his accident I think for many F1 just became a thing in the past. Germans were so passionate about Schuey that I think anyone who was going to came after him had no chance. They had no space in their hearts left for Vettel.

And the two top guys are Austrian.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Need4Naiim »

antz182 wrote:http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/9763661/hockenheim-boss-reportedly-rules-out-hosting-german-gp-in-2015?98 apparently time's run out to do a deal. I get the feeling F1 is dying a sad, slow death. By season's end, we'll probably loose a team or two. Cota could be gone and Red Bull might walk.
Formula 1 Management chose wrong pillars to depend on after Schumacher's first retirement. Once they understood their selection was not strong enough, they provided a new environment for their initial plans to work smoothly. By the time they finally got what they wanted, the historical decoration which made them important guys started to collapse.
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Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Laura23 wrote:I don't think losing Germany is as bad as is being made out. Sure it's sad losing a race but no one in Germany wants to watch the Grand Prix. There's little point going to a race to have the stands less than half full. I still don't understand why F1 still persists with China either for the same reason.


Well, how much races are left with full grandstands? 5? 6? 7?

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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Laura23 wrote:I don't think losing Germany is as bad as is being made out. Sure it's sad losing a race but no one in Germany wants to watch the Grand Prix. There's little point going to a race to have the stands less than half full. I still don't understand why F1 still persists with China either for the same reason.


Well, how much races are left with full grandstands? 5? 6? 7?

Some of those races clearly don't mind it as much. The boss of Hockenheim had had enough of it and told Bernie that was it for this year.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Asphalt_World »

I think one reason stands are often empty at traditional circuits, is because the seemingly random placing of new circuits around the world in order for Bernie to chase the dollar has removed lots of the tradition from the sport and people are watching other things for far less cash instead.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

And the ticket prices.

And the fees circuit owners have to pay for having a race.

And ...

Herb
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Herb »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:And the ticket prices.

And the fees circuit owners have to pay for having a race.

And ...


This. Bring ticket prices down and people will start to go back to races. Put it on free TV and you start attracting new fans.

Now it's a double whammy of high cost to view it on TV and high cost to attend it in person. No wonder audiences are falling.

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Re: No German race!!

Post by FringeUK »

Herb wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:And the ticket prices.

And the fees circuit owners have to pay for having a race.

And ...


This. Bring ticket prices down and people will start to go back to races. Put it on free TV and you start attracting new fans.

Now it's a double whammy of high cost to view it on TV and high cost to attend it in person. No wonder audiences are falling.


:thumbup:
Several hundred pounds/euros/dollars/whatever for a weekends racing is bad news. Moreover, I can't imagine how anyone could take their family these days (unless they happen to be very rich!). If you add in other stuff like flights or long distance travel and it is easy to see why grandstands are not full.

Some years ago, actually in 1978, (and I may have said this before), I met a guy in Paris who was traveling round the Europe GP's in an MG Midget and having a great time. I have a restored MGB and keep thinking I would like to do the same, but the cost today would be horrendous!

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Re: No German race!!

Post by TheOtherGuy »

I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...
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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...

Care to provide your proof of that? I'd rather see the numbers.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Asphalt_World »

TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...


Except you have to take into account that you only generally see part of the circuit so don't see the whole race. This is of course a given in lots of motor sport.

Ignoring that though, Le Mans destroys F1 in terms of value for money.
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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...


Except you have to take into account that you only generally see part of the circuit so don't see the whole race. This is of course a given in lots of motor sport.

Ignoring that though, Le Mans destroys F1 in terms of value for money.

As does every WEC race and just about every other form of Motorsport around.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by TheOtherGuy »

Laura23 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...

Care to provide your proof of that? I'd rather see the numbers.

It's pretty basic maths but I looked at a sport I commonly go and watch, rugby;

Cheapest Ticket for England vs. Wales = £65-70 for 80 minutes of action.

Cheapest Ticket for 2015 British GP Weekend = £175 for ~90 minute race, 1 hour quali, practice sessions and support races.

It's not massively out of line.
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Herb
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Herb »

WEC is £40 for a weekend grandstand ticket at Silverstone. No way F1 gets close to that.

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Re: No German race!!

Post by Sutton »

F1 is dying on its backside.

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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

TheOtherGuy wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...

Care to provide your proof of that? I'd rather see the numbers.

It's pretty basic maths but I looked at a sport I commonly go and watch, rugby;

Cheapest Ticket for England vs. Wales = £65-70 for 80 minutes of action.

Cheapest Ticket for 2015 British GP Weekend = £175 for ~90 minute race, 1 hour quali, practice sessions and support races.

It's not massively out of line.

Then consider where Silverstone is and where Twickenham is. One is very easy to get to and one is a pain in the pickle. Camping for Silverstone can cost you an arm and a leg, parking too is costly. Twickenham has cheap parking relative to Silverstone and the hotels in the area are not too badly priced either but most fans just travel for the day.

Total costs would be far higher for the F1 than the rugby.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

Herb wrote:WEC is £40 for a weekend grandstand ticket at Silverstone. No way F1 gets close to that.

:thumbup:

Better fan access as well. A million times better actually.

The problem is F1 has gone so far up it's own pickle the only way for it to get any better is to fairy cakes on it's own head until it gets unstuck.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Asphalt_World »

Spa 24 hours, stunning cars, stunning circuit.

32 Euros.....
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bourbon19
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Re: No German race!!

Post by bourbon19 »

Laura23 wrote:
antz182 wrote:It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

German fans have never connected with Rosberg because they consider him a Finn who grew up in Monaco and they never connected with Vettel for reasons I don't know. Mercedes are based in the UK with mainly British mechanics and personnel which much smart a bit in Germany as well.

Since Michael Schumacher retired they lost their hero and since his accident I think for many F1 just became a thing in the past. Germans were so passionate about Schuey that I think anyone who was going to came after him had no chance. They had no space in their hearts left for Vettel.


Nonsense. There are numerous factors (often economic /value based) that influence the fate of a particular GP. Fans want the best value for their money. Right now, the best value for German fans is the renovated Austrian GP - where Germans filled the stands last season.

In any case, it is a bit of an affront to German fans to suggest that they only have enough passion for one driver and no space left for another. Remember that 80k fans came out in below freezing temperatures for Seb's Berlin parade and also note that some young Vettel fans were not Schumi fans at all - so they were connecting just fine. Similarly, Valencia closing down does not mean that passion for Alonso or F1 has faded in Spain. There are alternatives for these fans and they are taking them.
Last edited by bourbon19 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

bourbon19 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
antz182 wrote:It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

German fans have never connected with Rosberg because they consider him a Finn who grew up in Monaco and they never connected with Vettel for reasons I don't know. Mercedes are based in the UK with mainly British mechanics and personnel which much smart a bit in Germany as well.

Since Michael Schumacher retired they lost their hero and since his accident I think for many F1 just became a thing in the past. Germans were so passionate about Schuey that I think anyone who was going to came after him had no chance. They had no space in their hearts left for Vettel.


Nonsense. There are numerous factors (often economic /value based) that influence the fate of a particular GP. Fans want the best value for their money. Right now, the best value for German fans is the renovated Austrian GP - where Germans filled the stands last season.

In any case, it is a bit of an affront to German fans to suggest that they only have enough passion for one driver and no space left for another. Remember that 80k fans came out in below freezing temperatures for Seb's Berlin parade and also note that some young Vettel fans were not Schumi fans at all. Similarly, Valencia closing down does not mean that passion for Alonso or F1 has faded in Spain.

I don't think they have enough passion to fork out the pieces required to go to the German Grand Prix. A free parade? Sure. An expensive weekend? Not so much.

Plenty people have questioned why Germany seems to have lost it's passion for F1 lately and why the current crop of Germans can't seem to change that.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Flash2k11 »

Need4Naiim wrote:
antz182 wrote:http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/9763661/hockenheim-boss-reportedly-rules-out-hosting-german-gp-in-2015?98 apparently time's run out to do a deal. I get the feeling F1 is dying a sad, slow death. By season's end, we'll probably loose a team or two. Cota could be gone and Red Bull might walk.
Formula 1 Management chose wrong pillars to depend on after Schumacher's first retirement. Once they understood their selection was not strong enough, they provided a new environment for their initial plans to work smoothly. By the time they finally got what they wanted, the historical decoration which made them important guys started to collapse.


Do you just go into every topic, take your paranoia, run it through a Thesaurus a few times over just to make it as incomprehensible and awkwardly verbose as possible before dribbling the results out in a post?

It's funny the first few times. Funny no longer.

As for the topic at hand, it's been a long time coming, the share between the Nurburgring and Hockenheim was a short term fix at best, the troubles with the 'ring's management was always going to end in tears, especially after they didnt sell up to Bernie. As for Hockenheim..... if they can't afford it, then F1 wont be going, its as simple as that.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by shoot999 »

TheOtherGuy wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...

Care to provide your proof of that? I'd rather see the numbers.

It's pretty basic maths but I looked at a sport I commonly go and watch, rugby;

Cheapest Ticket for England vs. Wales = £65-70 for 80 minutes of action.

Cheapest Ticket for 2015 British GP Weekend = £175 for ~90 minute race, 1 hour quali, practice sessions and support races.

It's not massively out of line.


True. And if you booked on the first day of ticket release they cost £99 for GA. The initial offer on GA at Silverstone sold 1000 tickets in 22 mins, and 7000 in the first day with a total of 18000 calls requesting other tickets. Advance bookings are up 22% this year. And as for the mystical family of four that spends £1000 on tickets; under 10s are free this year, and 11 to 15 year olds pay 49 for a weekend ticket. So the family of four, with the kids under 10 get 4 days for £200.

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Re: No German race!!

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Flash2k11 wrote:As for the topic at hand, it's been a long time coming, the share between the Nurburgring and Hockenheim was a short term fix at best, the troubles with the 'ring's management was always going to end in tears, especially after they didnt sell up to Bernie. As for Hockenheim..... if they can't afford it, then F1 wont be going, its as simple as that.


While I think that your last sentence absolutely correctly describes it as it is, I do think that F1's responsible people are making mistakes with decisions like this. Replacing the traditional markets (in terms of fans!) in France, Germany, probably soon Italy, etc. with markets where no fans are and no fan culture is building up (Bahrain, UAE, Azerbaijdchan, Qatar, Korea, etc.) leads to a net loss in fans - one of the reasons why total audience is declining. With his short-sighted policy to fill CVC's and his pockets, Ecclestone further contributes to the ongoing process of declining audience. But how can you expect future prospects or long-run strategies if the dictator at the helmet is 84?

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Re: No German race!!

Post by bourbon19 »

Laura23 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
antz182 wrote:It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

German fans have never connected with Rosberg because they consider him a Finn who grew up in Monaco and they never connected with Vettel for reasons I don't know. Mercedes are based in the UK with mainly British mechanics and personnel which much smart a bit in Germany as well.

Since Michael Schumacher retired they lost their hero and since his accident I think for many F1 just became a thing in the past. Germans were so passionate about Schuey that I think anyone who was going to came after him had no chance. They had no space in their hearts left for Vettel.


Nonsense. There are numerous factors (often economic /value based) that influence the fate of a particular GP. Fans want the best value for their money. Right now, the best value for German fans is the renovated Austrian GP - where Germans filled the stands last season.

In any case, it is a bit of an affront to German fans to suggest that they only have enough passion for one driver and no space left for another. Remember that 80k fans came out in below freezing temperatures for Seb's Berlin parade and also note that some young Vettel fans were not Schumi fans at all. Similarly, Valencia closing down does not mean that passion for Alonso or F1 has faded in Spain.



I don't think they have enough passion to fork out the pieces required to go to the German Grand Prix. A free parade? Sure. An expensive weekend? Not so much.

Plenty people have questioned why Germany seems to have lost it's passion for F1 lately and why the current crop of Germans can't seem to change that.


I don't know who "plenty people" are, but perhaps they are out of touch with the state of the economy right now. You are mixing passion and money as if they are one and the same for the Germans. Sure they will go for free, but forego the expensive tickets. They are creatures of the economy like everyone else, but that does not have anything whatsoever to do with how much passion they have for the sport or how they connect with their young crop of drivers.

Besides, you are completely ignoring the fact that it was mostly Germans filling up the Austrian GP last season. That isn't just the purchase, but traveling as well - so quite the expense all in all (but a much better value on the Euro).

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Re: No German race!!

Post by sandman1347 »

antz182 wrote:http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/9763661/hockenheim-boss-reportedly-rules-out-hosting-german-gp-in-2015?98 apparently time's run out to do a deal. I get the feeling F1 is dying a sad, slow death. By season's end, we'll probably loose a team or two. Cota could be gone and Red Bull might walk.

F1 will not die. What will happen is that, eventually, new leadership will be brought in. The current leadership is completely tone-deaf when it comes to running a sport rather than simply providing a marketing outlet to multi-billion dollar brands. F1 needs leaders who have more of an ear to the street. Leaders who take advantage of technology rather than avoiding it; who engage the fans rather than trying to gouge them for money.

Unfortunately things will probably get worse before they get better.

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Re: No German race!!

Post by shoot999 »

Laura23 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
antz182 wrote:It's bad because Mercedes just won the championship and two German drivers might make the podium.

German fans have never connected with Rosberg because they consider him a Finn who grew up in Monaco and they never connected with Vettel for reasons I don't know. Mercedes are based in the UK with mainly British mechanics and personnel which much smart a bit in Germany as well.

Since Michael Schumacher retired they lost their hero and since his accident I think for many F1 just became a thing in the past. Germans were so passionate about Schuey that I think anyone who was going to came after him had no chance. They had no space in their hearts left for Vettel.


Nonsense. There are numerous factors (often economic /value based) that influence the fate of a particular GP. Fans want the best value for their money. Right now, the best value for German fans is the renovated Austrian GP - where Germans filled the stands last season.

In any case, it is a bit of an affront to German fans to suggest that they only have enough passion for one driver and no space left for another. Remember that 80k fans came out in below freezing temperatures for Seb's Berlin parade and also note that some young Vettel fans were not Schumi fans at all. Similarly, Valencia closing down does not mean that passion for Alonso or F1 has faded in Spain.

I don't think they have enough passion to fork out the pieces required to go to the German Grand Prix. A free parade? Sure. An expensive weekend? Not so much.

Plenty people have questioned why Germany seems to have lost it's passion for F1 lately and why the current crop of Germans can't seem to change that.


Well they seem to have enough passion to travel to the RB Ring and Spa each year. Given the choice I'd select one or both of those tracks over the German GP. And I'm not sure nationality plays that big a part. On World Cup final day last year 125,000 Germans spent the day at the track watching two Spaniards and an Italian fight it out at the German MotoGP. Passionate about their racing. Yes. Nationalistic. Not so much.

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Re: No German race!!

Post by Flash2k11 »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:As for the topic at hand, it's been a long time coming, the share between the Nurburgring and Hockenheim was a short term fix at best, the troubles with the 'ring's management was always going to end in tears, especially after they didnt sell up to Bernie. As for Hockenheim..... if they can't afford it, then F1 wont be going, its as simple as that.


While I think that your last sentence absolutely correctly describes it as it is, I do think that F1's responsible people are making mistakes with decisions like this. Replacing the traditional markets (in terms of fans!) in France, Germany, probably soon Italy, etc. with markets where no fans are and no fan culture is building up (Bahrain, UAE, Azerbaijdchan, Qatar, Korea, etc.) leads to a net loss in fans - one of the reasons why total audience is declining. With his short-sighted policy to fill CVC's and his pockets, Ecclestone further contributes to the ongoing process of declining audience. But how can you expect future prospects or long-run strategies if the dictator at the helmet is 84?


I agree completely, I was mortified when Magny Cours went down the same road (and I thought that the French GP was as untouchable as the British/Italian/Monaco) but this is clearly the presiding trend, and to be shocked by it is to be fooling yourself.

As long as the company owning F1 is a profit generating investment fund then the bottom line is always going to be the cold hard cash, and as long as this fact remains, F1 will always be whoring itself out to the highest bidder, and the rest be damned, regardless of history.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Asphalt_World »

shoot999 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...

Care to provide your proof of that? I'd rather see the numbers.

It's pretty basic maths but I looked at a sport I commonly go and watch, rugby;

Cheapest Ticket for England vs. Wales = £65-70 for 80 minutes of action.

Cheapest Ticket for 2015 British GP Weekend = £175 for ~90 minute race, 1 hour quali, practice sessions and support races.

It's not massively out of line.


True. And if you booked on the first day of ticket release they cost £99 for GA. The initial offer on GA at Silverstone sold 1000 tickets in 22 mins, and 7000 in the first day with a total of 18000 calls requesting other tickets. Advance bookings are up 22% this year. And as for the mystical family of four that spends £1000 on tickets; under 10s are free this year, and 11 to 15 year olds pay 49 for a weekend ticket. So the family of four, with the kids under 10 get 4 days for £200.


GA at a packed Silverstone sucks unless you're there ridiculously early.
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Flash2k11 »

Asphalt_World wrote:GA at a packed Silverstone sucks unless you're there ridiculously early.


You get what you pay for. Ive done GA twice, got there at 9am and had absolutely no bother securing a decent place (Entry to Stowe first time, in between both Luffield's the second)
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shoot999
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Re: No German race!!

Post by shoot999 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
TheOtherGuy wrote:I worked this out, on a cost per minute of action basis, F1 tickets are not massively outline of with any other major international sport...

Care to provide your proof of that? I'd rather see the numbers.

It's pretty basic maths but I looked at a sport I commonly go and watch, rugby;

Cheapest Ticket for England vs. Wales = £65-70 for 80 minutes of action.

Cheapest Ticket for 2015 British GP Weekend = £175 for ~90 minute race, 1 hour quali, practice sessions and support races.

It's not massively out of line.


True. And if you booked on the first day of ticket release they cost £99 for GA. The initial offer on GA at Silverstone sold 1000 tickets in 22 mins, and 7000 in the first day with a total of 18000 calls requesting other tickets. Advance bookings are up 22% this year. And as for the mystical family of four that spends £1000 on tickets; under 10s are free this year, and 11 to 15 year olds pay 49 for a weekend ticket. So the family of four, with the kids under 10 get 4 days for £200.


GA at a packed Silverstone sucks unless you're there ridiculously early.


But not as early as you have to be at Spa. Unless youre happy sitting at Kemmel or athletic enough to shimmy up a tree.

But wrong guy to convince re Silverstone. As far as I'm concerned Silverstone sucks GA or no. But if you want a seat at Farm or Abbey you can upgrade for a tenner.
Last edited by shoot999 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hittheapex
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Re: No German race!!

Post by hittheapex »

Each news story like this just reinforces the feeling that the sports owners are going to skim off as much as they can until it collapses. At which point they'll move on somewhere else like vultures. They'll never retire. Greed stops them from doing that.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Asphalt_World »

Never ever had to get to Spa early for GA even on run down to Pouhon. Also, with lots of natural banking, you get a view at least.
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nixxxon
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Re: No German race!!

Post by nixxxon »

Germans really dont appreciate much having some top drivers in F1 in the post schumacher era... Maybe when they all retire and no other german replaces them, then they will realise it...

Having said that, its not a tragedy if we lose the German GP althouth I love Hockenheim as it provides one of the most action packed races.
Germans can always go to Spa which is near the border of Belgium/Germany

Asphalt_World
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Asphalt_World »

nixxxon wrote:Germans really dont appreciate much having some top drivers in F1 in the post schumacher era... Maybe when they all retire and no other german replaces them, then they will realise it...

Having said that, its not a tragedy if we lose the German GP althouth I love Hockenheim as it provides one of the most action packed races.
Germans can always go to Spa which is near the border of Belgium/Germany


It's 4 hours drive from Hockenheim to Spa and even further from other parts of Germany.

Your comment about Germans always being able to go to Belgium is staggering.

Don't worry if Monza is scraped because Monaco is only 3 1/2 hours away!
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Laura23
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Re: No German race!!

Post by Laura23 »

nixxxon wrote:Germans really dont appreciate much having some top drivers in F1 in the post schumacher era... Maybe when they all retire and no other german replaces them, then they will realise it...

Having said that, its not a tragedy if we lose the German GP althouth I love Hockenheim as it provides one of the most action packed races.
Germans can always go to Spa which is near the border of Belgium/Germany

Yeah and the French can just go to Spain. :-|

While I'd rather not see Germany struggle to host a race every year I would like to see it on the calendar. But once the tracks have a bit more stability and better long term plans.

I can't say I disagree with the point that Germany as a country doesn't seem to be that passionate about the German drivers it is a shame for those who are passionate about the sport in general to miss out on a race in their own country. Austria may be cheaper but it isn't Germany. Belgium is not an easy race to get tickets for as it is (good tickets anyway) and with thousands of Germans being added to the mix of Brits, Belgians, French and Dutch it will make for far too many disappointed fans. Let Germany have a couple of years off, give them cheaper fees when they do come back and FOM should do their best to help the German organisers to get a full house of fans again. Germany has been on the F1 calendar for longer that most of us have been alive, we need that history to be around for a long time yet.
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Get well soon Schumi.

No one call anyone a moo-pickle...

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