Alonso crash/missing Melbourne [MERGED]

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eludlow
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by eludlow »

Intrigued though - if he's "completely fine", what "progress" is there to be updated on next week?

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Razoola »

This talk of something happening to Alonso before he hit the wall just won't go away will it. I just read a report that he may have had a mini stroke.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Laura23 »

Razoola wrote:This talk of something happening to Alonso before he hit the wall just won't go away will it. I just read a report that he may have had a mini stroke.

Raz
He had a crash, he banged his head up a bit and that is the end of it. He had a concussion way back in 2003 in Brazil so it isn't a big jump to say his second rather big one will have longer lasting effects given he's also over a decade older. He just needs a couple of weeks rest.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Prema »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
Well, I don't see why that would be contradicting what he said earlier:

"The speed was quite slow, maybe 150 kilometres per hour. Then he turned straight into the wall. It was strange",
the four-time world champion told German magazine 'Auto, motor und Sport'.


In both statements he only refers to that moment of Alonso hitting/turning into the wall, not the entire process of how it started. In the first statement, he reveled that it looked "strange" to him while in this other one he is simply refusing to be pulled in judging or speculating about the cause/reason.
Last edited by Prema on Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by PzR Slim »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
He's changed his tune since the day of the accident. So he is contradicting himself.
Sebastian Vettel, who replaced Alonso at Ferrari when the Spaniard rejoined McLaren, was right behind him at the time of the crash.
The German said: "The speed was slow - maybe 150kph. Then he turned right into the wall. It looked strange."
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31575734

Even more curious.
If...

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by pokerman »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Prema »

PzR Slim wrote: He's changed his tune since the day of the accident. So he is contradicting himself.
Not only that I do not see him (completely) contradicting himself, but not even that he has changed his tune really that much. In the first statement he said that the way Alonso turned into the wall looked "strange". Now he is saying that he is not sure what happened. He was not sure what happened the first time either, he is not sure now, never mind the official explanation given by McLaren that he has heard.

What I think is that he does not wish to be really involved into all of that.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Prema »

pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
Unless Vettel says himself that he was misquoted then, I don't see the reason to assume such.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by pokerman »

Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
Unless Vettel says himself that he was misquoted then, I don't see the reason to assume such.
He only saw the last part of the accident were before it was made to believe that Vettel saw all of the accident from beginning to end, so from what he actually saw it would be impossible to make any kind of reasoned judgement.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Prema »

pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote: That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
Unless Vettel says himself that he was misquoted then, I don't see the reason to assume such.
He only saw the last part of the accident were before it was made to believe that Vettel saw all of the accident from beginning to end, so from what he actually saw it would be impossible to make any kind of reasoned judgement.
Vettel himself never offered any kind of reasoned judgment. He never spoke in terms of 'beginning and end'. He spoke about that moment that he witnessed, and what an impression it made on him. And now he basically still maintains that he is not sure what happened there even after hearing the explanation about wind or whatever other theories as what was to be the start and the cause to the accident.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
I thought there was also a photographer who stated something along the lines of that first statement by Vettel?
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by -ZeroGravityToilet- »

pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
Unless Vettel says himself that he was misquoted then, I don't see the reason to assume such.
He only saw the last part of the accident were before it was made to believe that Vettel saw all of the accident from beginning to end, so from what he actually saw it would be impossible to make any kind of reasoned judgement.
I think it is safe to assume he saw the last part of the crash and assumed that had been all, since the car had sustained not a large amount of damage.

He is contradicting himself. It is just that he is realizing now, when other teams have been shown further data, that he didn't actually see the origin of the crash.

Nothing to see here, move on...

Corners in Barca are extraordinarily long and fast. They don't look the part on TV. Probably the photographer that was named as second witness did not see the first part of the accident either.

Those are my guesses. I am more and more convinced it was just an unfortunate crash.
Last edited by -ZeroGravityToilet- on Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Need4Naiim »

Prema wrote: What I think is that he does not wish to be really involved into all of that.
:thumbup:
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by A2jdl »

Need4Naiim wrote:
Prema wrote: What I think is that he does not wish to be really involved into all of that.
:thumbup:
Or when questioned by the FIA he told the truth.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by RaggedMan »

A2jdl wrote:
Need4Naiim wrote:
Prema wrote: What I think is that he does not wish to be really involved into all of that.
:thumbup:
Or when questioned by the FIA he told the truth.
What was he lying about in the first place? He made a short statement in the immediate aftermath when asked about it. He probably didn't put too much thought into it at first because it was just an off at the time, and he had his own testing to be thinking about.

Now after being asked about again knowing that it was more than initially thought he expanded on his previous statement.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by nixxxon »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
I thought there was also a photographer who stated something along the lines of that first statement by Vettel?
Yep, Jordi Vidal was the photographer who took pics of the accident and he stated too that he was not going fast and he suddenly turned to the right without touching the astroturf.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by pokerman »

Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote: That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
Unless Vettel says himself that he was misquoted then, I don't see the reason to assume such.
He only saw the last part of the accident were before it was made to believe that Vettel saw all of the accident from beginning to end, so from what he actually saw it would be impossible to make any kind of reasoned judgement.
Vettel himself never offered any kind of reasoned judgment. He never spoke in terms of 'beginning and end'. He spoke about that moment that he witnessed, and what an impression it made on him. And now he basically still maintains that he is not sure what happened there even after hearing the explanation about wind or whatever other theories as what was to be the start and the cause to the accident.
Well some were posting as if Vettel saw it all
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Sebastian Vettel wrote:I'm not sure what happened. I was right behind but didn't really see. I was a bit too late and couldn't see how the accident started. I only saw the last bit when he was hitting the wall, but what happened before I can't judge whether he lost the car with the wind or not.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31661625
That was the only real witness that cast some doubt on what took place, now that it seems Vettel was misquoted then there is not too much to discuss apart from it being an accident from which Alonso was injured, case closed methinks.
I thought there was also a photographer who stated something along the lines of that first statement by Vettel?
I think there is some confusion over what he actually saw or didn't see as well
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Prema »

A2jdl wrote:
Need4Naiim wrote:
Prema wrote: What I think is that he does not wish to be really involved into all of that.
:thumbup:
Or when questioned by the FIA he told the truth.
That would be but a meaningless assumption devoid of a rational thought behind it. What exactly did Vettel perhaps lie about in his first statement? And in what purpose would it be then?

Right after the accident, he said what he saw at that moment. And now, after all that talks and public statements from McLaren, he obviously understands that there may be more about it than just that very moment of Alonso turning into the wall and that he did not see, he heard that wind was pointed at as the probable cause to it. And that, he now cannot nor he apparently wants to speculate about. He was unsure then as why Alonso turned into the wall, and he is unsure now. This latest (official?) statement of his does not in any way invalidate nor even contradict what he said the first time. It simply complements it, it adds.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by PrancingRocket_ »

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by SmoothRide »

quote="Laura23"]
Razoola wrote:This talk of something happening to Alonso before he hit the wall just won't go away will it. I just read a report that he may have had a mini stroke.

Raz
He had a crash, he banged his head up a bit and that is the end of it. He had a concussion way back in 2003 in Brazil so it isn't a big jump to say his second rather big one will have longer lasting effects given he's also over a decade older. He just needs a couple of weeks rest.[/quote]

It is not possible to declare this incident and the discussion about it as closed. Something unusual has happened and it has not been fully explained as of yet. Not even close.

There are several important questions that need to be answered such as whether Alonso has strange symptoms because of the crash or whether he crashed because he had strange symptoms. McLaren is being evasive, which suggests that either they don't know what happened or they don't want it to be known. If they could have extricated themselves with a cohesive explanation then they would have done so by now.

Another question is whether the car is safe to drive.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Laura23 »

SmoothRide wrote:quote="Laura23"]
Razoola wrote:This talk of something happening to Alonso before he hit the wall just won't go away will it. I just read a report that he may have had a mini stroke.

Raz
He had a crash, he banged his head up a bit and that is the end of it. He had a concussion way back in 2003 in Brazil so it isn't a big jump to say his second rather big one will have longer lasting effects given he's also over a decade older. He just needs a couple of weeks rest.
It is not possible to declare this incident and the discussion about it as closed. Something unusual has happened and it has not been fully explained as of yet. Not even close.

There are several important questions that need to be answered such as whether Alonso has strange symptoms because of the crash or whether he crashed because he had strange symptoms. McLaren is being evasive, which suggests that either they don't know what happened or they don't want it to be known. If they could have extricated themselves with a cohesive explanation then they would have done so by now.

Another question is whether the car is safe to drive.[/quote]
Alonso's medical condition before or after the crash is nothing to do with us. We have no right to that information at all and are not owed an explanation on it. We have been told he is fine, he isn't going to die and he walked out of hospital on his own feet with a smile. The rest of Alonso's medical details are private and confidential to him and him only. Not us.

We were told the car didn't fail mechanically and we were told the speed at which he crashed. We know there will be an investigation into the accident. We don't need anything else at the moment.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by SmoothRide »

Laura23 wrote: Alonso's medical condition before or after the crash is nothing to do with us. We have no right to that information at all and are not owed an explanation on it. We have been told he is fine, he isn't going to die and he walked out of hospital on his own feet with a smile. The rest of Alonso's medical details are private and confidential to him and him only. Not us.
No. The FIA, and other teams, will not allow Alonso out on the track in Melbourne unless details of what happened are known. Surely they are not going to accept that a driver who (possibly) randomly blacks out is out there pushing for ultimate pace. How much the public will get to know is up for debate, but there are really two possibilities:
- There is nothing seriously wrong with Alonso's health - in which case it will surely be revealed
- There is something wrong with him - in which case he will not be allowed to drive and it will be apparent to everyone even if details of his problems remain private
Laura23 wrote: We were told the car didn't fail mechanically and we were told the speed at which he crashed. We know there will be an investigation into the accident. We don't need anything else at the moment.
Don't think that an electrical problem was conclusively ruled out so speculation is fine at this point. It's a new car so there could be unforeseen issues. Someone out there may stumble upon the right explanation.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Laura23 »

SmoothRide wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Alonso's medical condition before or after the crash is nothing to do with us. We have no right to that information at all and are not owed an explanation on it. We have been told he is fine, he isn't going to die and he walked out of hospital on his own feet with a smile. The rest of Alonso's medical details are private and confidential to him and him only. Not us.
No. The FIA, and other teams, will not allow Alonso out on the track in Melbourne unless details of what happened are known. Surely they are not going to accept that a driver who (possibly) randomly blacks out is out there pushing for ultimate pace. How much the public will get to know is up for debate, but there are really two possibilities:
- There is nothing seriously wrong with Alonso's health - in which case it will surely be revealed
- There is something wrong with him - in which case he will not be allowed to drive and it will be apparent to everyone even if details of his problems remain private
Laura23 wrote: We were told the car didn't fail mechanically and we were told the speed at which he crashed. We know there will be an investigation into the accident. We don't need anything else at the moment.
Don't think that an electrical problem was conclusively ruled out so speculation is fine at this point. It's a new car so there could be unforeseen issues. Someone out there may stumble upon the right explanation.
The other teams don't have any say in this. The FIA will let Alonso back in the car for Melbourne once his concussion is no longer considered a danger. We have already been told there is nothing seriously wrong with Alonso's health. He took a bump to the head and so is on rest for a week or two. The speculation about him blacking out is just speculation, if he were in a more serious condition he'd still be in hospital and he'd certainly not have walked out on his own smiling.

McLaren ruled out the electrical theories immediately. The car didn't fail, they've already looked into that.

You are looking for things that don't exist. I think some people are struggling to accept that Alonso made what was pretty much a rookie error that cost him. It happens, these drivers are as human as we are at the end of the day and they make mistakes.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by SmoothRide »

Laura23 wrote: The other teams don't have any say in this. The FIA will let Alonso back in the car for Melbourne once his concussion is no longer considered a danger.


The teams do have a say. They can protest or they can refuse to take to the track. I am sure it will not come to that, but that's only because answers will be provided before Aus. They are staying quiet for the time being because it would be terrible PR to do otherwise. Fortunately, here at the forum, PR is not a big concern.
Laura23 wrote: We have already been told there is nothing seriously wrong with Alonso's health. He took a bump to the head and so is on rest for a week or two. The speculation about him blacking out is just speculation, if he were in a more serious condition he'd still be in hospital and he'd certainly not have walked out on his own smiling.


The doctors will need to clear FA to drive. They haven't done so yet so the state of his health is obviously not perfect. Memory loss is a rather serious symptom especially if it relates to events other than just preceding the crash (not sure if that's the case with FA). The fact that he can walk and smile is not evidence that he is fit to drive. He may experience intermittent issues that are no less dangerous.
Laura23 wrote: You are looking for things that don't exist. I think some people are struggling to accept that Alonso made what was pretty much a rookie error that cost him. It happens, these drivers are as human as we are at the end of the day and they make mistakes.
If this was a simple driver error then McLaren would have reinforced that, perhaps with telemetry data. They indicated that wind may have been a factor, but how many F1 cars have crashed because of the wind in recent years? There is no point in trying to sweep the discussion under the rug at this point, and no reason not to speculate.

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Laura23 »

SmoothRide wrote:
Laura23 wrote: The other teams don't have any say in this. The FIA will let Alonso back in the car for Melbourne once his concussion is no longer considered a danger.


The teams do have a say. They can protest or they can refuse to take to the track. I am sure it will not come to that, but that's only because answers will be provided before Aus. They are staying quiet for the time being because it would be terrible PR to do otherwise. Fortunately, here at the forum, PR is not a big concern.
Laura23 wrote: We have already been told there is nothing seriously wrong with Alonso's health. He took a bump to the head and so is on rest for a week or two. The speculation about him blacking out is just speculation, if he were in a more serious condition he'd still be in hospital and he'd certainly not have walked out on his own smiling.


The doctors will need to clear FA to drive. They haven't done so yet so the state of his health is obviously not perfect. Memory loss is a rather serious symptom especially if it relates to events other than just preceding the crash (not sure if that's the case with FA). The fact that he can walk and smile is not evidence that he is fit to drive. He may experience intermittent issues that are no less dangerous.
Laura23 wrote: You are looking for things that don't exist. I think some people are struggling to accept that Alonso made what was pretty much a rookie error that cost him. It happens, these drivers are as human as we are at the end of the day and they make mistakes.
If this was a simple driver error then McLaren would have reinforced that, perhaps with telemetry data. They indicated that wind may have been a factor, but how many F1 cars have crashed because of the wind in recent years? There is no point in trying to sweep the discussion under the rug at this point, and no reason not to speculate.
The teams do not get a say. The FIA decide not the teams. He has been told to rest for a couple of weeks so of course his health is not perfect but as Ron Dennis said he should be fit to race in Oz no problem. Ron Dennis is not going to muck around with one of his driver's health, not after what happened to Hakkinen in 1995.

McLaren don't have to provide us with telemetry data to prove anything. They said it was driver error and we should take their word for that. There is nothing to speculate over regarding that, we have already been told the facts. Alonso made an error by going wide and the wind helped destabilise the car further. Simple.

What is happening here is fans who know nothing think they know everything. You are seeing things that are not there. There was no electrical issue, there was no failure. Alonso didn't have a stroke/seizure/faint/heart attack etc. We have had all that confirmed. The FIA always investigate crashes that end up with a driver in hospital, they are not investigating this one because it is spooky or any other such bullshit.
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RaggedMan
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by RaggedMan »

SmoothRide wrote:
Laura23 wrote: The other teams don't have any say in this. The FIA will let Alonso back in the car for Melbourne once his concussion is no longer considered a danger.


The teams do have a say. They can protest or they can refuse to take to the track. I am sure it will not come to that, but that's only because answers will be provided before Aus. They are staying quiet for the time being because it would be terrible PR to do otherwise. Fortunately, here at the forum, PR is not a big concern.
As long as he is cleared by the doctors he is free to race and none of the other teams can do anything about it. Your idea of them sitting out a race in protest is just silly.
SmoothRide wrote:
Laura23 wrote: We have already been told there is nothing seriously wrong with Alonso's health. He took a bump to the head and so is on rest for a week or two. The speculation about him blacking out is just speculation, if he were in a more serious condition he'd still be in hospital and he'd certainly not have walked out on his own smiling.


The doctors will need to clear FA to drive. They haven't done so yet so the state of his health is obviously not perfect. Memory loss is a rather serious symptom especially if it relates to events other than just preceding the crash (not sure if that's the case with FA). The fact that he can walk and smile is not evidence that he is fit to drive. He may experience intermittent issues that are no less dangerous.
Nobody has said that he is fit to drive but the fact that nothing worrying came out of the diagnostic tests when he was in the hospital means that as long as he passes the concussion protocols before getting back in the car there is no more reason to worry about Alonso being on track than any other driver who has had a concussion before.
SmoothRide wrote:
Laura23 wrote: You are looking for things that don't exist. I think some people are struggling to accept that Alonso made what was pretty much a rookie error that cost him. It happens, these drivers are as human as we are at the end of the day and they make mistakes.
If this was a simple driver error then McLaren would have reinforced that, perhaps with telemetry data. They indicated that wind may have been a factor, but how many F1 cars have crashed because of the wind in recent years? There is no point in trying to sweep the discussion under the rug at this point, and no reason not to speculate.
One of the STR drivers had an off in the same part of the track that day that was attributed to wind so all though it's rare it happens.

McLaren has already said that there was no electrical shock, and that there was no indication that any mechanical failure occurred. They also said that telemetry showed that he was on the brakes and downshifting before impact so that's pretty strong evidence that he was conscious prior to the off.

The problem with a bunch of pure speculation is that someone who has no direct knowledge of the event, puts 2 and 2 together and comes up with 5, then another person reads it and repeats it as gospel somewhere else and then all of a sudden there's "All these questions" that "Need to be answered."
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SmoothRide
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by SmoothRide »

Laura23 wrote: The teams do not get a say. The FIA decide not the teams.
Obviously you didn't read what I said. I am not questioning that FIA makes the official decision, but the teams will speak out if they think that something isn't right and their voice will not be ignored. Silly to claim otherwise.
Laura23 wrote: He has been told to rest for a couple of weeks so of course his health is not perfect but as Ron Dennis said he should be fit to race in Oz no problem. Ron Dennis is not going to muck around with one of his driver's health, not after what happened to Hakkinen in 1995.
FA was released from the hospital pending further tests. State of his health is not certain at this point though hopefully he will be fine.
Laura23 wrote: McLaren don't have to provide us with telemetry data to prove anything. They said it was driver error and we should take their word for that.
YOU can take their word for that if you choose to. That doesn't extend to anyone else. You have a strange way of arguing as if your opinion is some sort of decisive voice.
Laura23 wrote: There is nothing to speculate over regarding that, we have already been told the facts. Alonso made an error by going wide and the wind helped destabilise the car further. Simple.
Possibly - but additional details from the pending investigation won't hurt. Several witnesses said that something odd was happening. Eye witnesses aren't always reliable, but that's where clarity helps. The circumstances and the outcome suggest that at least a thorough investigation is in order.
Laura23 wrote: What is happening here is fans who know nothing think they know everything. You are seeing things that are not there. There was no electrical issue, there was no failure. Alonso didn't have a stroke/seizure/faint/heart attack etc. We have had all that confirmed.
Oh good - so you already have all of the evidence and details that are not available to the general public. As for taking people's word for it - it's a fool's errand. Especially in cases where people have an incentive to hide things.
Laura23 wrote: The FIA always investigate crashes that end up with a driver in hospital, they are not investigating this one because it is spooky or any other such bullshit.
The fact that they routinely investigate serious crashes does not imply that there is nothing strange about this one. It also doesn't imply that there CERTAINLY is. I don't claim the former or the latter by the way. All I am saying is that this incident is not yet ready to be laid to rest and various possibilities are still on the table even if McLaren swear otherwise.

Prema
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Prema »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:There have been several people in this thread citing Sebastian Vettel as an eye witness for strange behaviour before the crash unfolded. Here is a direct quote from him that completely contradicts that:
Apparently, even news papers do not try to sensationalize about Vettel's latest statement in the way you are doing here, but are rather understanding what it was all about, and widely reporting so as:
"Vettel clarifies 'strange' Alonso crash comments"

He also said that FIA did not approach him for a statement, but:
"I went to McLaren straight away after it happened and basically told them what I saw and asked Fernando if he was at OK - at that stage we didn't know. It's still shocking to know he still needs to recover but the most important thing right now is that in general he is fine."

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... b6BS9eh.99

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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by Laura23 »

SmoothRide wrote:
Laura23 wrote: The teams do not get a say. The FIA decide not the teams.
Obviously you didn't read what I said. I am not questioning that FIA makes the official decision, but the teams will speak out if they think that something isn't right and their voice will not be ignored. Silly to claim otherwise.
Laura23 wrote: He has been told to rest for a couple of weeks so of course his health is not perfect but as Ron Dennis said he should be fit to race in Oz no problem. Ron Dennis is not going to muck around with one of his driver's health, not after what happened to Hakkinen in 1995.
FA was released from the hospital pending further tests. State of his health is not certain at this point though hopefully he will be fine.
Laura23 wrote: McLaren don't have to provide us with telemetry data to prove anything. They said it was driver error and we should take their word for that.
YOU can take their word for that if you choose to. That doesn't extend to anyone else. You have a strange way of arguing as if your opinion is some sort of decisive voice.
Laura23 wrote: There is nothing to speculate over regarding that, we have already been told the facts. Alonso made an error by going wide and the wind helped destabilise the car further. Simple.
Possibly - but additional details from the pending investigation won't hurt. Several witnesses said that something odd was happening. Eye witnesses aren't always reliable, but that's where clarity helps. The circumstances and the outcome suggest that at least a thorough investigation is in order.
Laura23 wrote: What is happening here is fans who know nothing think they know everything. You are seeing things that are not there. There was no electrical issue, there was no failure. Alonso didn't have a stroke/seizure/faint/heart attack etc. We have had all that confirmed.
Oh good - so you already have all of the evidence and details that are not available to the general public. As for taking people's word for it - it's a fool's errand. Especially in cases where people have an incentive to hide things.
Laura23 wrote: The FIA always investigate crashes that end up with a driver in hospital, they are not investigating this one because it is spooky or any other such bullshit.
The fact that they routinely investigate serious crashes does not imply that there is nothing strange about this one. It also doesn't imply that there CERTAINLY is. I don't claim the former or the latter by the way. All I am saying is that this incident is not yet ready to be laid to rest and various possibilities are still on the table even if McLaren swear otherwise.
Basically you won't believe anything McLaren say until they show you every scrap of evidence they have even though you have no entitlement to it. Ok then.
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by mcdo »

But what if

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egnat69
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Re: Alonso Barca testing crash/illness.

Post by egnat69 »

Fernando will not drive in oz... KMag to take over...

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Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by mikeyg123 »

Jon Noble tweeting Alonso will not race in Oz after his testing crash.

antz182
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Re: Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by antz182 »

If this is true, then there's something shady going on. What the hell happened in that crash that we're not being told?

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Amon
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Re: Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by Amon »

So I assume Magnussen taking his place. In Oz he got his best result in F1 so far.
That doesn' seem like an ordinary concussion to me.
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mds
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Re: Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by mds »

Official statement: http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/inside- ... al-update/

Alonso is reportedly fine but they want to limit the risk of concussion in order to avoid two concussions in a short period of time.
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pokerman
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Re: Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by pokerman »

That may have something to do with a head injury that needs resting, also there is no need to rush back to drive a car that is clearly not ready to race.
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pokerman
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Re: Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:Official statement: http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/inside- ... al-update/

Alonso is reportedly fine but they want to limit the risk of concussion in order to avoid two concussions in a short period of time.
I actually said this might happen bearing in mind that the McLaren is far from ready to race, no one is going to score points in that car, why take the health risk?
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Classic
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Re: Alonso will not race in Australlia

Post by Classic »

It's not likely that either McLaren driver will be in the championship hunt, so no need to rush the drivers back from injury.

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