Alonso crash/missing Melbourne [MERGED]

RunningMan · Post by **RunningMan** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:03 pm

PzR Slim wrote:
RunningMan wrote:At least he's left the Hospital and is looking better
To be honest, he looked perfectly fine in that first picture which was tweeted, which is one of the reasons there has been confusion over his prolonged stay. Good news that he's out, can't see anyway he'll be able to drive this weekend and it'll be interesting to see if he's a doubt for the first race. Mike Brown (English rugby player) suffered his concussion 10 days ago and has been ruled out for this weekends game. He'll be desperate to race but as others have said it's stupid to take head injuries lightly.

Yeah he's definitely out of this weekend. Australia is two weeks away so he should be able to race there. On a side note, didn't Brown suffer a recurrence of his symptoms? hence him being ruled out of this weekend?

PzR Slim · Post by **PzR Slim** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:07 pm

RunningMan wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
RunningMan wrote:At least he's left the Hospital and is looking better
To be honest, he looked perfectly fine in that first picture which was tweeted, which is one of the reasons there has been confusion over his prolonged stay. Good news that he's out, can't see anyway he'll be able to drive this weekend and it'll be interesting to see if he's a doubt for the first race. Mike Brown (English rugby player) suffered his concussion 10 days ago and has been ruled out for this weekends game. He'll be desperate to race but as others have said it's stupid to take head injuries lightly.
Yeah he's definitely out of this weekend. Australia is two weeks away so he should be able to race there. On a side note, didn't Brown suffer a recurrence of his symptoms? hence him being ruled out of this weekend?

From what I read he just woke up with a headache and they are being extra careful.

TheOtherGuy · Post by **TheOtherGuy** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:10 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:The article on the BBC Sport website included this at the end:

BBC Sport has learned that governing body the FIA is to conduct a comprehensive investigation into the accident to ensure its causes and consequences are fully understood.
So we should at least find out if McLaren were telling us the whole truth or not.

Does anyone know if this is standard procedure for crashes or if it is a sign that there may be a little more to this?

egnat69 · Post by **egnat69** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:25 pm

TheOtherGuy wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:The article on the BBC Sport website included this at the end:

BBC Sport has learned that governing body the FIA is to conduct a comprehensive investigation into the accident to ensure its causes and consequences are fully understood.
So we should at least find out if McLaren were telling us the whole truth or not.
Does anyone know if this is standard procedure for crashes or if it is a sign that there may be a little more to this?

i think it is the standard procedure for incidents that generate above-average media-buzz...

edit: just read the AMuS-article on that topic... they say that it is indeed a standard procedure and its aim is to gather data for future safety standards... the article goes on to remind that in 2011 perez had to call off the canada-gp 2 weeks after a concussion he sustained in monaco, due to dizziness... as others have said, a concussion is deemed a relatively light injury but can produce some longer lasting effects, so i guess that's why he had to stay longer in hospital... plus, one would guess that a 30g impact will leave you with some bruises and other hurting body parts...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 88926.html

Crislack · Post by **Crislack** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:39 am

Alonso Manager:

(in spanish)
http://motor.as.com/motor/2015/02/25/fo ... 24420.html

“¿Australia? We are thinking in Abu Dhabi...”

This will be a hard year, but i think it will funny..

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:00 am

dizlexik wrote:
mcdo wrote:
smoothcrim wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
dizlexik wrote: None of them know what going on with Alonso.
Where did I claim they did? How in any way does that answer the points that I raised in my reply to you?

As long as people are just questioning and not making up information as fact then where is the problem? If you don't like that people are questioning the incident, as some in this thread appear not to, why click the thread to read it? Ignore it, be happy that you know the truth of the incident and let others who are happy to discuss it do just that.

People want to come here and read facts,news and discuss F1. We arent interested in trashy tabloid journalism or fantasists with crazy theories.
Like in 2008 when fantasists with crazy theories reckoned Alonso's Singapore win was suspicious and got laughed out the door
So every conspiracy theory must be true, because one was true?

Not necessarily but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss cases where everything doesn't appear to add up. And if you think Singapore 2008 was the only conspiracy theory that was true you're kidding yourself

PrancingRocket_ · Post by **PrancingRocket_** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:04 am

Lorenzo De Luca @LorenzoDL83
#Gazzetta "The doctors were worried by a retrograde amnesia that #Alonso has shown since his 1st visit at the circuit medical center."

#Gazzetta "Alonso returns home. In Doubt for Melbourne. It seems that Alonso couldn't remember some aspects of his life."

No confirmation from Alonso's manager - Luis Garcia Abad, that he will definitely be racing in Melbourne.....
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/could ... on-opener/

Hoping all this isn't true

NetWorKzz · Post by **NetWorKzz** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:56 am

PrancingRocket_ wrote:Lorenzo De Luca @LorenzoDL83
#Gazzetta "The doctors were worried by a retrograde amnesia that #Alonso has shown since his 1st visit at the circuit medical center."

#Gazzetta "Alonso returns home. In Doubt for Melbourne. It seems that Alonso couldn't remember some aspects of his life."

No confirmation from Alonso's manager - Luis Garcia Abad, that he will definitely be racing in Melbourne.....
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/could ... on-opener/

Hoping all this isn't true

HOLY #$%#$%#%#$% fairy cakes

If that's true, we're in for a surprise... it definitely sounds more serious if that's true

shoot999 · Post by **shoot999** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:25 pm

'Alonso unconcious for a short time', Ron Dennis called FIA suggesting they investgate the accident.

From tweets coming out of press conference.

PzR Slim · Post by **PzR Slim** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:30 pm

shoot999 wrote:'Alonso unconcious for a short time', Ron Dennis called FIA suggesting they investgate the accident.

From tweets coming out of press conference.

Was just about to say the same and how it was fantastic news that he should be fine for Melbourne but then see Prancing Rocket's post and that nagging doubt is still there.

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:35 pm

I'm worried. I hope he will get well soon.

LKS1 · Post by **LKS1** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:38 pm

PrancingRocket_ wrote:Lorenzo De Luca @LorenzoDL83
#Gazzetta "The doctors were worried by a retrograde amnesia that #Alonso has shown since his 1st visit at the circuit medical center."

#Gazzetta "Alonso returns home. In Doubt for Melbourne. It seems that Alonso couldn't remember some aspects of his life."

No confirmation from Alonso's manager - Luis Garcia Abad, that he will definitely be racing in Melbourne.....
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/could ... on-opener/

Hoping all this isn't true

Same here.

Hopefully its just rumours.

Alex53 · Post by **Alex53** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:13 pm

'Some aspects of his life' could be the turn just before the accident, what he had for breakfast the day of the accident, or what school he went to. Journalists are not doctors, so we really can't conclude much from that statement. I'd like to see the Italian words they translated that from too. Translations can be quite treacherous.

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:37 pm

When I saw it announced that Magnussen was running two days in the third test, I said this on Twitter: interesting they aren't running JB all four days. It's either an ideal chance to get KM a little time in the 2015 car... or maybe there is more to it all than we know, and FA's participation at Melbourne is perhaps questionable?

Hopefully it isn't the case, and they did just see it as an opportunity to get Magnussen some time in the 2015 car. But the stuff about Alonso suffering amnesia, and the way stuff keeps coming out... it is still a little concerning.

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:56 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:When I saw it announced that Magnussen was running two days in the third test, I said this on Twitter: interesting they aren't running JB all four days. It's either an ideal chance to get KM a little time in the 2015 car... or maybe there is more to it all than we know, and FA's participation at Melbourne is perhaps questionable?

Hopefully it isn't the case, and they did just see it as an opportunity to get Magnussen some time in the 2015 car. But the stuff about Alonso suffering amnesia, and the way stuff keeps coming out... it is still a little concerning.

Maybe KMag is just the man to go one better than last year!

johnp · Post by **johnp** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:17 pm

This is sounding more and more like Alonso suffered some kind of electric shock, have lying Ron deny it just just makes me believe it even more, after all the team has no title sponsor and will do anything to protect their sugar daddy Honda

PzR Slim · Post by **PzR Slim** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:26 pm

johnp wrote:This is sounding more and more like Alonso suffered some kind of electric shock, have lying Ron deny it just just makes me believe it even more, after all the team has no title sponsor and will do anything to protect their sugar daddy Honda

There really is no direct evidence to suggest this is the case. Lets stick to the facts.

LKS1 · Post by **LKS1** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:25 pm

PzR Slim wrote:
johnp wrote:This is sounding more and more like Alonso suffered some kind of electric shock, have lying Ron deny it just just makes me believe it even more, after all the team has no title sponsor and will do anything to protect their sugar daddy Honda
There really is no direct evidence to suggest this is the case. Lets stick to the facts.

There are no facts other than Alonso (seemingly) suffered a relatively minor accident (for unknown reasons) and was hospitalised for a couple of days.

This is odd, which is why there's so much speculation.

We may (or may not) find out the reason for the accident, but as things stand little makes sense given the eye-witness reports.

Hopefully the FIA will discover the reason for the accident and Alonso will show up fit and well for Aus.

moby · Post by **moby** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:32 pm

or "I dont remember this deal looking so bad before I signed"

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:44 pm

johnp wrote:This is sounding more and more like Alonso suffered some kind of electric shock, have lying Ron deny it just just makes me believe it even more, after all the team has no title sponsor and will do anything to protect their sugar daddy Honda

Really now?

All the symptoms are of a head injury, you know it wouldn't hurt for Alonso not to drive for a month to make sure he's ok, the McLaren is not going to win any races anytime soon, will it even finish a race?

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:34 pm

LKS1 wrote:
PzR Slim wrote:
johnp wrote:This is sounding more and more like Alonso suffered some kind of electric shock, have lying Ron deny it just just makes me believe it even more, after all the team has no title sponsor and will do anything to protect their sugar daddy Honda
There really is no direct evidence to suggest this is the case. Lets stick to the facts.
There are no facts other than Alonso (seemingly) suffered a relatively minor accident (for unknown reasons) and was hospitalised for a couple of days.

This is odd, which is why there's so much speculation.

We may (or may not) find out the reason for the accident, but as things stand little makes sense given the eye-witness reports.

Hopefully the FIA will discover the reason for the accident and Alonso will show up fit and well for Aus.

Car hit wall at unusual angle and not enough energy was absorbed what resulted in rapid brain movement inside head.

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:37 pm

I don't know did someone already posted this video (I will not loose time going through 10 pages), but the immediate aftermath of the crash shows both confusion and panic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtygdQRa5Pc

chican · Post by **chican** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:19 pm

Lt. Drebin wrote:I don't know did someone already posted this video (I will not loose time going through 10 pages), but the immediate aftermath of the crash shows both confusion and panic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtygdQRa5Pc

For those who can't understand Spanish, they're saying: "Hey something's happened to Alonso, they're waking him up, it wasn't normal what he did, he went off very weirdly.

Something's happened to him, they were calling him as if he couldn't wake up".

egnat69 · Post by **egnat69** » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:54 pm

johnp wrote:This is sounding more and more like Alonso suffered some kind of electric shock, have lying Ron deny it just just makes me believe it even more, after all the team has no title sponsor and will do anything to protect their sugar daddy Honda

I will quote myself on this topic...

egnat69 wrote:i'm having a hard time with that electric shock theory...
the energy would be circulating from wherever it escaped to a ground - be it the ground of the alternator or a skid-block touching the surface of the track... however, carbon fibre is a far superiour conductor compared to the human body... sure, it is isolated by plastic and probably paint, but then - how should the current travel to the driver anyway? that could only work through the carbon fibre chassis... that said, the current will always go the way of the least resistance - hence it doesn't have a reason to go through the comparably high restitance body of the driver...

that all changes when a marshall arives at the car - because he is grounded and would represent a way for the current to escape that cage it is in (the car, basically) ... with the driver in the car it is a bit like bird sitting on the power-lines...

JMILAT · Post by **JMILAT** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:35 am

Something seems off with all this.

I don't understand how a man and team that prides themselves on their ability to think so well manage to trip over their own feet so much.

It seems like Big Ron might have been better off not having his press conference. So Alonso has no concussion? Didn't Eric just recently tell us days ago he did? He was unconscious, yet he has no concussion? His recovery and all that is very normal following such an accident but there seems to be a lot of strange conflicting information coming out.

At the same time there is also still a very big question mark of why he crashed. The wind is possible and he could have just ran wide on the astroturf and lost it and this is probably what happenned. But at the same time Vettel said he just seemed to turn right in to the wall. Ron also claimed McLaren couldn't be completely sure Fernando had full consciousness before the crash and he even claimed Jenson said the telemetry looked strange.

It looks like Alonso with enough rest will be fine. But if he did black out that could be dangerous to everyone including obviously himself. We may never know.

PRFAN · Post by **PRFAN** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:43 am

on that video it appears they are rubbing his chest, if I am not mistaken this creates a lot of discomfort to the point of waking somebody up or create a reflex movement.

If he indeed was out before the crash, why did he passed out? The more time passes without a clear cause of the crash, the more worrisome it gets, if there is something wrong with the man, can we see a possible early retirement from the sport? Some say he has some memory problems, is he fit to drive? Will he be fit to drive?

hittheapex · Post by **hittheapex** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:57 am

It certainly seems to me that we aren't being told the whole story. I'm hoping that the truth does not turn out to be as serious as some of the speculation.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:08 am

Someone has actually simulated the crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igIvPDDyRAA

AravJ · Post by **AravJ** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:17 am

All I can say is get well soon Fernando, I hope to see him in Aus
A race without the samurai fighter is going to be frustrating for me especially with maclarens current testing form

egnat69 · Post by **egnat69** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:11 am

JMILAT wrote:It seems like Big Ron might have been better off not having his press conference. So Alonso has no concussion? Didn't Eric just recently tell us days ago he did? He was unconscious, yet he has no concussion? His recovery and all that is very normal following such an accident but there seems to be a lot of strange conflicting information coming out.

From Autosport:
Dennis said the doctors were being "cautious" because of the fact Alonso experienced the symptoms of concussion while being "devoid of all injuries" when examined medically.
i don't know why that could happen... do we have a doctor here? MEDIC!!!! WE NEED A MEEDIIIIC!!!

edit: tried to do some research... but as i said, i'm neither a doctor nor a medical student, so... apparently, medically speaking, a concussion is the lightest form of craniocerebral injury and is defined by damaged brain-tissue... the damage occurs when the brain hits the skull - like always with this type of injuries... examination takes place by asking the patient questions and assessing his reactions on a scale... looking at the scale and what we know about alonso, his assessment must have been rather low, which will lead to a CT-scan... but it seems like there hasn't been found any damage on the CT-scan so they are left at a weird state... the definition of brain-damage (even if only a temporarily one) isn't met, but he showed a lot of symptoms that are typical for a concussion... that might also be the reason as to why he had to stay in hospital longer than expected - they probably ran the scans a couple of times to make sure they didn't miss anything... it might very well also be the reason as to why there is no clear message whether he will drive in oz or not...

JMILAT · Post by **JMILAT** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:32 am

egnat69 wrote:
JMILAT wrote:It seems like Big Ron might have been better off not having his press conference. So Alonso has no concussion? Didn't Eric just recently tell us days ago he did? He was unconscious, yet he has no concussion? His recovery and all that is very normal following such an accident but there seems to be a lot of strange conflicting information coming out.
From Autosport:
Dennis said the doctors were being "cautious" because of the fact Alonso experienced the symptoms of concussion while being "devoid of all injuries" when examined medically.
i don't know why that could happen... do we have a doctor here? MEDIC!!!! WE NEED A MEEDIIIIC!!!

I wonder if Ron has got his facts wrong. He is basing Fernando having no injury because nothing showed up on the scans. I'm not an expert but its my understanding a CT scan will not necessarily pick up a concussion.

I get the feeling that Ron with the teams integrity being questioned has come out blazing in defence of that and has maybe not got all his facts right in the process. Personally I'm just about absolutely sure Alonso was concussed in the crash. He has pretty much all the symptoms of it and his recovery is also very normal. It would not be abnormal to have to miss the first race.

The only thing would be if he was unconscious before the accident which is quite serious then. I don't buy that McLaren can't tell if something is wrong. The telemetry has to give them an idea. They can measure a lot of things with rear wheels slipping, steering traces and more. For example if Fernando ran wide and lost rear traction surely he will have attempted to correct it with opposite lock.

Alonso probably just dropped it but nevertheless the incident seems strange.

jamei · Post by **jamei** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:38 am

According to Gary Hartstein, the simple fact he was unconscious means he suffered concussion and Ron Dennis is talking out of his bottom: https://twitter.com/former_f1doc

Unless of course, his unconsciousness began before the impact.

Need4Naiim · Post by **Need4Naiim** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:06 am

jamei wrote:According to Gary Hartstein, the simple fact he was unconscious means he suffered concussion and Ron Dennis is talking out of his bottom: https://twitter.com/former_f1doc

Unless of course, his unconsciousness began before the impact.

nixxxon · Post by **nixxxon** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:23 pm

Covalent wrote:Someone has actually simulated the crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igIvPDDyRAA

This simulation is completely innacurate, because that photographer said he didnt lose control of the car due to the backend sliding off. He just went turned the car to the right.

I'm thinking he was either blacking out or being electrocuted, i can't think of anything else. He was trying to park the car on the right but he couldnt stop properly for whatever reason and he crashed into the wall.

The wind theory is really.... strange... maybe it COULD be true, but I find it hard to believe.

DarkoA · Post by **DarkoA** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:28 pm

He just posted a thank you video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxuVHLj ... e=youtu.be

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:30 pm

nixxxon wrote:
Covalent wrote:Someone has actually simulated the crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igIvPDDyRAA
This simulation is completely innacurate, because that photographer said he didnt lose control of the car due to the backend sliding off. He just went to the left.

I'm thinking he was either blacking out or being electrocuted, i can't think of anything else. He was trying to park the car on the right but he couldnt stop properly for whatever reason and he crashed into the wall.

The wind theory is really.... strange... maybe it COULD be true, but I find it hard to believe.

While it must have been a great effort, the other inaccuracy is that the car was moving for 15 seconds after the initial impact. The movement in this simulation ends around 6-7 seconds.

mds · Post by **mds** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:34 pm

nixxxon wrote: I'm thinking he was either blacking out or being electrocuted, i can't think of anything else.

Electrocution doesn't seem likely for me, but from the beginning I've been thinking (based on Vettel's and that reporter's comments) that he was blacking out or passing out or something, and stomped the brakes while he still could.

pg55555 · Post by **pg55555** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:35 pm

.

Irrespective of what the team, team manager or driver wants, the FIA "SHOULD" not allow Alonso to drive again until they are satisfied that there is an engineering or medical explanation.

This is basic "duty of care".

However, we all know how ethical the FIA are.

mds · Post by **mds** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:52 pm

pg55555 wrote:.

Irrespective of what the team, team manager or driver wants, the FIA "SHOULD" not allow Alonso to drive again until they are satisfied that there is an engineering or medical explanation.

This is basic "duty of care".

I don't necessarily agree. If he is cleared for driving by the doctors, he should be able to drive. There is still something like the professional secrecy in medical professions. Alonso has his rights too.

A2jdl · Post by **A2jdl** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:54 pm

DarkoA wrote:He just posted a thank you video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxuVHLj ... e=youtu.be

good to see hes fit and well