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How much is drs worth

Nico also said the car was behaving terribly, so there's still lots of undiscovered potential.

Zoue wrote:

mds wrote:Interesting stuff from Ben Anderson:
- Ferrari doesn't look like it turns in very well - but could possibly be attributed to fuel load
- The Sauber looks hard to drive. Despite that it set 1:24.0 on softs. I think that means the pole time within a few monts will definitely be somewhere in the 1:22's. Such an improvement over 2014!
- The Honda PU still sounds unrefined compared to the others. The McLaren turns in very well but question is if that is to be attributed to not running full power yet and thus being easier to manage.

yes, I'm quite curious about the first one as it contradicts everything that's been said so far. so is the Ferrari less stable with high fuel loads, I wonder?

I would think a car will always look less nimble with a higher fuel load, i guess it shows that Ferrari up until now have been running with a reasonable low fuel load

ClubF1 wrote:

mds wrote:

F1Tyrant wrote: I honestly think that the W06 could probably do a 1:20.0 if they ran it on fumes with the supersoft tyre. I very much doubt that Mercedes had qualifying fuel loads (probably a few more laps worth in the tank just so they hold a few horses back) or had turned the wick up to full blast on the engine.

I think you're overstating it a bit now. 1:20.0 would be faster than the 2013 cars could manage and they aren't at that level yet.
Moreover I do think the engine is running at full blast now. They want to test that before Australia, so that's somewhere in these four days and logic tells me it won't be the last day, so at the very latest tomorrow but probably already since yesterday.

edit: also it's funny, I was thinking after Nasr's run where he put in a 1:24.0 that Mercedes would be able to drive in the 1:22's and was hoping for them to finally show some speed. Then a bit later they do just that

Yep, so Merc did a 1.3 second quicker lap than the Sauber on the same tyre - that seems about right. Or are we going to say the Sauber was on fumes and the Merc was sandbagging as per usual? Would expect the Ferrari to be at least as fast as the Sauber and maybe closer to the Williams, but time will tell.

Update: Out of Williams and Ferrari - Ferrari took the fight up to Williams until the end of the season with a poorly performing engine and a not so great handling car. This year, the reds have not only addressed their excessive energy recovery efficiency and small turbo, but have improved their suspension and aero considerably to the point of catching the eye of other teams in terms of car behaviour. So, I would have a stab by stating the Ferrari will be about .5 seconds a lap quicker than the Williams purely on the fact that Ferrari had the most to gain, remembering that its base speed was almost the same.

So are Mercedes still sandbagging and are Ferrari running on fumes? For Ferrari, the answer is no!

I very much doubt the Ferrari will be 0.5s quicker than the Williams, Williams look to have a good car, an improvement on last year

w1Y! wrote:How much is drs worth

10–12 km/h, or half a second per lap, according to Wiki. Of course that depends on the track.

pokerman wrote:

ClubF1 wrote:
Update: Out of Williams and Ferrari - Ferrari took the fight up to Williams until the end of the season with a poorly performing engine and a not so great handling car. This year, the reds have not only addressed their excessive energy recovery efficiency and small turbo, but have improved their suspension and aero considerably to the point of catching the eye of other teams in terms of car behaviour. So, I would have a stab by stating the Ferrari will be about .5 seconds a lap quicker than the Williams purely on the fact that Ferrari had the most to gain, remembering that its base speed was almost the same.

So are Mercedes still sandbagging and are Ferrari running on fumes? For Ferrari, the answer is no!

I very much doubt the Ferrari will be 0.5s quicker than the Williams, Williams look to have a good car, an improvement on last year

Plus last year people said Mercedes held a big advantage over the customer teams because they could design the car and engine to complement each other. With the limited engine upgrades I can’t believe the engine changes will have a huge impact on interaction with the car/chassis, so Williams have had a year to work with the engine and refine that and close the gap on Mercedes. Not saying they will have closed that gap to Mercedes, but I still think if Williams is not the second best car, it will be right up there with whoever is.

WHoff78 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

ClubF1 wrote:
Update: Out of Williams and Ferrari - Ferrari took the fight up to Williams until the end of the season with a poorly performing engine and a not so great handling car. This year, the reds have not only addressed their excessive energy recovery efficiency and small turbo, but have improved their suspension and aero considerably to the point of catching the eye of other teams in terms of car behaviour. So, I would have a stab by stating the Ferrari will be about .5 seconds a lap quicker than the Williams purely on the fact that Ferrari had the most to gain, remembering that its base speed was almost the same.

So are Mercedes still sandbagging and are Ferrari running on fumes? For Ferrari, the answer is no!

I very much doubt the Ferrari will be 0.5s quicker than the Williams, Williams look to have a good car, an improvement on last year

Plus last year people said Mercedes held a big advantage over the customer teams because they could design the car and engine to complement each other. With the limited engine upgrades I can’t believe the engine changes will have a huge impact on interaction with the car/chassis, so Williams have had a year to work with the engine and refine that and close the gap on Mercedes. Not saying they will have closed that gap to Mercedes, but I still think if Williams is not the second best car, it will be right up there with whoever is.

Yes good point and i agree

Bacus wrote:

mds wrote:

F1Tyrant wrote: I honestly think that the W06 could probably do a 1:20.0 if they ran it on fumes with the supersoft tyre. I very much doubt that Mercedes had qualifying fuel loads (probably a few more laps worth in the tank just so they hold a few horses back) or had turned the wick up to full blast on the engine.

I think you're overstating it a bit now. 1:20.0 would be faster than the 2013 cars could manage and they aren't at that level yet.
Moreover I do think the engine is running at full blast now. They want to test that before Australia, so that's somewhere in these four days and logic tells me it won't be the last day, so at the very latest tomorrow but probably already since yesterday.

edit: also it's funny, I was thinking after Nasr's run where he put in a 1:24.0 that Mercedes would be able to drive in the 1:22's and was hoping for them to finally show some speed. Then a bit later they do just that

I want to make a bit of observation: they aren't at that level for this type of track (which does not 'favor' so much these new cars), but I reckon they will break records or close to it on many other tracks

Good point. COTA and Brazil are obvious ones but it could get very close on other tracks as well, based on the time Rosberg just did.
Roll on Australia already!

Askcrofty stated that Rosberg was clocked at 208mph (just under 335kph) in testing, with no DRS

For reference - just seen a video of Ricciardo clocked at 360kph (224mph) with slipstream and DRS, at Monza in 2014.

Baldy1986 wrote:Askcrofty stated that Rosberg was clocked at 208mph (just under 335kph) in testing, with no DRS

For reference - just seen a video of Ricciardo clocked at 360kph (224mph) with slipstream and DRS, at Monza in 2014.

But on the plus side, i'm happy too see the cars going quicker and i'm betting we still might see something like a 1:21.9**

Can someone hep me out here?

Is the Mercedes currently running the 2014 config engine setup? Meaning they Haven't applied PU upgrades via the token arrangement?

I think I read somewhere they had a raft of upgrades waiting in the wings for their PU but were holding back to hinder the Honda token allowance.

If this is the case, the Merc pace at the moment may be down to mainly aero development. As much as I am a Ham and Merc fan, I hope this isn't the case. I'd like to see RB, Willians, Ferrari and co in the mix at least some of the time this year.

If the Mercs have significant PU potential waiting this could be a more one sided affair than last year.

Update: (should have researched a bit better first)

Mercedes engine boss Andy Cowel:

“I can assure you that we’ll go with the 2015 engine in the season. Right from the first test in Jerez there were all new developments in the engine. We have incorporated many new ideas around combustion, internal friction and energy conversion in the fields."

He also went on to say it's possible to reach 1000bhp with this architecture.

Looks like they have pushed their engine development aggressively from the get go. (As if they needed it)

Honda's token allowance is the avg of the other manufacturers remaining tokens. So there is no motivation for any other manufacturer to hold on to tokens they would otherwise have used as that will simply give Honda more tokens.

I don't know which version they are running right now but I would assume it is closer to their 2015 engine, you don't want to be testing a new build during a GP

I just saw some pictures of the new nose of the Toro Rosso; it's a pity, but it's not the prettiest car anymore.

Fiki wrote:I just saw some pictures of the new nose of the Toro Rosso; it's a pity, but it's not the prettiest car anymore.

Had to scroll back and have a look, i agree.. The old looked so much better.

Things looking better for mclaren. I honestly believe they've been really ambitious with the packaging of the car and if they get the engine competitive it will be quick.

Massa and Kimi did fast times on super-soft tyre
1 Felipe Massa Williams 1m23.262s
2 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m23.276s +0.014
Still long way from Merc

Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

If you think a customer Mercedes team will be allowed to beat the works team then nope.

I think we may see a 1998 style season, McLaren dominated Oz/Brazil with ease at start of season until Schumacher barged DC out of the way in Argentina. McLaren were easily quickest until mid season, Ferrari caught up on the higher downforce tracks but Mercedes engines helped McLaren keep high pace on lower downforce tracks.

If Ferrari can keep improving we might see them catching Merc as the year goes on. Mercedes will have less to improve on their car most likely, they may even be close to maximum performance now a bit like McLaren were in 2012.

But for sure Melbourne will be a Mercedes will by about a minute the way things stand.

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

Ferrari are well and truly screwed then. Bob Hope has been dead for years.

RaggedMan wrote:

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

Ferrari are well and truly screwed then. Bob Hope has been dead for years.

Laura23 wrote:

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

If you think a customer Mercedes team will be allowed to beat the works team then nope.

I think we may see a 1998 style season, McLaren dominated Oz/Brazil with ease at start of season until Schumacher barged DC out of the way in Argentina. McLaren were easily quickest until mid season, Ferrari caught up on the higher downforce tracks but Mercedes engines helped McLaren keep high pace on lower downforce tracks.

If Ferrari can keep improving we might see them catching Merc as the year goes on. Mercedes will have less to improve on their car most likely, they may even be close to maximum performance now a bit like McLaren were in 2012.

But for sure Melbourne will be a Mercedes will by about a minute the way things stand.

Merc customers are the only ones likely to get close, so i hope for our sake the are allowed to! If not they might as well go home now.

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

If you think a customer Mercedes team will be allowed to beat the works team then nope.

I think we may see a 1998 style season, McLaren dominated Oz/Brazil with ease at start of season until Schumacher barged DC out of the way in Argentina. McLaren were easily quickest until mid season, Ferrari caught up on the higher downforce tracks but Mercedes engines helped McLaren keep high pace on lower downforce tracks.

If Ferrari can keep improving we might see them catching Merc as the year goes on. Mercedes will have less to improve on their car most likely, they may even be close to maximum performance now a bit like McLaren were in 2012.

But for sure Melbourne will be a Mercedes will by about a minute the way things stand.

Merc customers are the only ones likely to get close, so i hope for our sake the are allowed to! If not they might as well go home now.

I always thought it odd that Williams chose to go for a certain podium rather than a potential win in Austria last year and saying they didn't want to get involved with the title battling Mercs. It just didn't sit right for me that a team who have won titles would not go for a race win.

Laura23 wrote:

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:

A2jdl wrote:

Laura23 wrote:Mercedes have a second in hand according to paddock insiders if you ask Sky Sports. We could genuinely see the kind of Melbourne domination McLaren displayed back in 1998. Let's just hope Ferrari can also catch them like they did McLaren that year.

They will most likely dominate all year and Ham will have easy title.
Bob hope an no hope of Ferrari catching them, the only possible is the Williams but i worry about the drivers

If you think a customer Mercedes team will be allowed to beat the works team then nope.

I think we may see a 1998 style season, McLaren dominated Oz/Brazil with ease at start of season until Schumacher barged DC out of the way in Argentina. McLaren were easily quickest until mid season, Ferrari caught up on the higher downforce tracks but Mercedes engines helped McLaren keep high pace on lower downforce tracks.

If Ferrari can keep improving we might see them catching Merc as the year goes on. Mercedes will have less to improve on their car most likely, they may even be close to maximum performance now a bit like McLaren were in 2012.

But for sure Melbourne will be a Mercedes will by about a minute the way things stand.

Merc customers are the only ones likely to get close, so i hope for our sake the are allowed to! If not they might as well go home now.

I always thought it odd that Williams chose to go for a certain podium rather than a potential win in Austria last year and saying they didn't want to get involved with the title battling Mercs. It just didn't sit right for me that a team who have won titles would not go for a race win.

interesting, i found it odd too not going for the win. But i dont think thats the reason

Didn't certain paddock insiders a couple of weeks back think Ferrari really had made great strides towards catching Merc and we would have a serious title race on our hands this season?

pubpokerplayer wrote:Didn't certain paddock insiders a couple of weeks back think Ferrari really had made great strides towards catching Merc and we would have a serious title race on our hands this season?

Not reliable ones no. They said Ferrari had made good progress but were still nowhere near Mercedes. No one is near Mercedes.

MarkieM wrote:Can someone hep me out here?

Is the Mercedes currently running the 2014 config engine setup? Meaning they Haven't applied PU upgrades via the token arrangement?

I think I read somewhere they had a raft of upgrades waiting in the wings for their PU but were holding back to hinder the Honda token allowance.

If this is the case, the Merc pace at the moment may be down to mainly aero development. As much as I am a Ham and Merc fan, I hope this isn't the case. I'd like to see RB, Willians, Ferrari and co in the mix at least some of the time this year.

If the Mercs have significant PU potential waiting this could be a more one sided affair than last year.

Update: (should have researched a bit better first)

Mercedes engine boss Andy Cowel:

“I can assure you that we’ll go with the 2015 engine in the season. Right from the first test in Jerez there were all new developments in the engine. We have incorporated many new ideas around combustion, internal friction and energy conversion in the fields."

He also went on to say it's possible to reach 1000bhp with this architecture.

Looks like they have pushed their engine development aggressively from the get go. (As if they needed it)

It's basically the 2015 engine but there are still some more tokens to be added to the engine so its not the definitive version

Laura23 wrote: I always thought it odd that Williams chose to go for a certain podium rather than a potential win in Austria last year and saying they didn't want to get involved with the title battling Mercs. It just didn't sit right for me that a team who have won titles would not go for a race win.

You are not alone on this.

Something certainly does not add up. If anything, WilliamsF1 should be closer to Mercedes in low downforce tracks this year AT LEAST. 6th sense tells me that Honda and MercedesGP try some very tight but risky packaging of PU system to lower center of gravity.

The number of rain affected races will seal the winner of the title.

I think.

Laura23 wrote:I always thought it odd that Williams chose to go for a certain podium rather than a potential win in Austria last year and saying they didn't want to get involved with the title battling Mercs. It just didn't sit right for me that a team who have won titles would not go for a race win.

It was the first race after some pretty abysmal seasons... if they felt secure they could get the podium, why waste valuable constructor points (aka money) trying to go for a win and possibly throw it all away by going over the tire cliff or similar? Seems very sensible to me.

If they can manage to be reliably up there again, I would expect them to go for some wins this season.

Felipe Massa - 1m23.262s (SS)
Kimi Raikkonen - 1m23.276s (SS)

Mercedes engineers' reaction to their competitors times on the SS tire.



Photo from gifrific.com

Desert Storm wrote:

Felipe Massa - 1m23.262s (SS)
Kimi Raikkonen - 1m23.276s (SS)

Mercedes engineers' reaction to their competitors times on the SS tire.



Photo from gifrific.com

Hamilton missing more track time this week.

Clarky wrote:Hamilton missing more track time this week.

I think its a bit disconcerting how much less time Hamilton gets in the car than Rosberg, what is this experimental set up that keeps him out of the car for over 3 hours, has Hamilton actually been able to do a race sim, how many race sims will Rosberg have done?

Lord Crc wrote:

Laura23 wrote:I always thought it odd that Williams chose to go for a certain podium rather than a potential win in Austria last year and saying they didn't want to get involved with the title battling Mercs. It just didn't sit right for me that a team who have won titles would not go for a race win.

It was the first race after some pretty abysmal seasons... if they felt secure they could get the podium, why waste valuable constructor points (aka money) trying to go for a win and possibly throw it all away by going over the tire cliff or similar? Seems very sensible to me.

If they can manage to be reliably up there again, I would expect them to go for some wins this season.

Yes plus they had already messed up some races earlier in the season, their main goal was WCC points and in that regard they were competing against the likes of Red Bull and Ferrari and not Mercedes.

pokerman wrote:

Clarky wrote:Hamilton missing more track time this week.

I think its a bit disconcerting how much less time Hamilton gets in the car than Rosberg, what is this experimental set up that keeps him out of the car for over 3 hours, has Hamilton actually been able to do a race sim, how many race sims will Rosberg have done?

Coming out now

Hamilton finally back out on the track, yay

Uffman wrote:Massa and Kimi did fast times on super-soft tyre
1 Felipe Massa Williams 1m23.262s
2 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m23.276s +0.014
Still long way from Merc

Roll on 2016

VDV23 wrote:

Uffman wrote:Massa and Kimi did fast times on super-soft tyre
1 Felipe Massa Williams 1m23.262s
2 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m23.276s +0.014
Still long way from Merc

Roll on 2016

The rules are the same next year. Merc likely to be the dominant force for at least another two seasons.

Laura23 wrote:

VDV23 wrote:

Uffman wrote:Massa and Kimi did fast times on super-soft tyre
1 Felipe Massa Williams 1m23.262s
2 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m23.276s +0.014
Still long way from Merc

Roll on 2016

The rules are the same next year. Merc likely to be the dominant force for at least another two seasons.

Roll on 2020