Barcelona Testing

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Clarky
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Barcelona Testing

Post by Clarky »

Thread for both the 2nd and 3rd Testing sessions at Barcelona.

The second test starts tomorrow

19 - 22 February 2015

We may find out a little more from teams in terms of performance.

Sutton
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Sutton »

Force India missing? Is that correct?

shoot999
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by shoot999 »

Sutton wrote:Force India missing? Is that correct?

Not according to Mercedes. They have put their reserve driver in the car for two of the days.

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Sutton »

shoot999 wrote:
Sutton wrote:Force India missing? Is that correct?

Not according to Mercedes. They have put their reserve driver in the car for two of the days.
Mercedes are putting THEIR reserve driver into a Force India?

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Blackhander »

Force India will be there, but I haven't seen anything confirming that they've brought their 2015 car with them... So I believe that they'll still be running last year's car (with the merc engine crammed in?)
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shoot999
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by shoot999 »

Sutton wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Sutton wrote:Force India missing? Is that correct?

Not according to Mercedes. They have put their reserve driver in the car for two of the days.
Mercedes are putting THEIR reserve driver into a Force India?

Staement issued this morning (the joys of being on social media ;) ) And he is slated to do in season testing as well.


http://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/20 ... ouncement/

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by SILVAF0XX »

Using 2014 car or so I've read... just to understand tyres!

Not good really :uhoh:

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Sutton »

SILVAF0XX wrote:Using 2014 car or so I've read... just to understand tyres!

Not good really :uhoh:
Doesn't look good at all really. Using the 2014 car? Why bother? What a waste of time.

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by SILVAF0XX »

Sutton wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:Using 2014 car or so I've read... just to understand tyres!

Not good really :uhoh:
Doesn't look good at all really. Using the 2014 car? Why bother? What a waste of time.
If they really are in financial troubles surely this is an absolute waste of money & resources!

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

Blackhander wrote:Force India will be there, but I haven't seen anything confirming that they've brought their 2015 car with them... So I believe that they'll still be running last year's car (with the merc engine crammed in?)
It will be the VJM07. They have indicated that already.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by huggybear »

SILVAF0XX wrote:
Sutton wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:Using 2014 car or so I've read... just to understand tyres!

Not good really :uhoh:
Doesn't look good at all really. Using the 2014 car? Why bother? What a waste of time.
If they really are in financial troubles surely this is an absolute waste of money & resources!
Maybe there is some kind of deal to give Wehrlein miles in the car for cheaper...something?

Battle Far
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Battle Far »

huggybear wrote:Maybe there is some kind of deal to give Wehrlein miles in the car for cheaper...something?
Speculation but

Suppose FI haven't paid the 2015 engines initial stage payment, that would explain why the new car isn't there, no engines

And

Getting Wehrlein in last years car with last years engine might be seen as defraying a potential financial loss

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

huggybear wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:
Sutton wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:Using 2014 car or so I've read... just to understand tyres!

Not good really :uhoh:
Doesn't look good at all really. Using the 2014 car? Why bother? What a waste of time.
If they really are in financial troubles surely this is an absolute waste of money & resources!
Maybe there is some kind of deal to give Wehrlein miles in the car for cheaper...something?
Force India still haven't paid Merc for the engines. That's what's been widely reported and why Merc are sticking their third driver in the Force India for two days. Penance of a kind but they'll still want their money. So it's 2014 car, 2014 engine with 2015 tyres and a driver they've never worked with before.

Forca India are in big trouble. No 2015 car running, no 2015 drivers running thus far and no data at all given they still don't have the 2015 chassis in their own hands.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by huggybear »

Laura23 wrote:
huggybear wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:
Sutton wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:Using 2014 car or so I've read... just to understand tyres!

Not good really :uhoh:
Doesn't look good at all really. Using the 2014 car? Why bother? What a waste of time.
If they really are in financial troubles surely this is an absolute waste of money & resources!
Maybe there is some kind of deal to give Wehrlein miles in the car for cheaper...something?
Force India still haven't paid Merc for the engines. That's what's been widely reported and why Merc are sticking their third driver in the Force India for two days. Penance of a kind but they'll still want their money. So it's 2014 car, 2014 engine with 2015 tyres and a driver they've never worked with before.

Forca India are in big trouble. No 2015 car running, no 2015 drivers running thus far and no data at all given they still don't have the 2015 chassis in their own hands.
Huelkenberg's Porsche LMP1 gig is starting to look like a brilliant contingency plan.

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

Could be but Hulkenberg doesn't have a full time contract with Porsche at the moment. He might have to wait a year for full time racing if this really dp go booby up at Force India.
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mds
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

Laura23 wrote:Force India still haven't paid Merc for the engines.
According to Lauda they have:
As for the powertrain, Mercedes team chairman Niki Lauda confirmed that “We have received our money from Force India”
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

mds wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Force India still haven't paid Merc for the engines.
According to Lauda they have:
As for the powertrain, Mercedes team chairman Niki Lauda confirmed that “We have received our money from Force India”
Autosport claimed that changed and they are still owe them outstanding payments, I would assume for the new 2015 power units. The 2014 ones were paid up late in Dec. The chassis certainly hasn't been paid for and remains with the company that built it and where it will remain until Force India pay for it upfront.

It sounds like no one is willing to give Force India credit, which makes their financial position look even more precarious.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by JohnnyGuitar »

Force India have blamed the Caterham and Marussia situations for suppliers playing hardball with them over payments, they say that has delayed their 2015 car.

There's almost certainly some truth in that, but if FI paid for everything on time, it wouldn't be an issue and suppliers wouldn't be holding back their orders, so they can blame the teams who have gone bust - which probably explains why they weren't willing to grant Manor dispensation to race their 2014 car, but some of the blame for their plight must be their own doing.

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

JohnnyGuitar wrote:Force India have blamed the Caterham and Marussia situations for suppliers playing hardball with them over payments, they say that has delayed their 2015 car.

There's almost certainly some truth in that, but if FI paid for everything on time, it wouldn't be an issue and suppliers wouldn't be holding back their orders, so they can blame the teams who have gone bust - which probably explains why they weren't willing to grant Manor dispensation to race their 2014 car, but some of the blame for their plight must be their own doing.
They still can't afford to pay for the car though. That much is clear. A team of Force India's stature should be able to pay for a chassis, so it's clear just how on the brink they really are.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by SILVAF0XX »

Laura23 wrote:
JohnnyGuitar wrote:Force India have blamed the Caterham and Marussia situations for suppliers playing hardball with them over payments, they say that has delayed their 2015 car.

There's almost certainly some truth in that, but if FI paid for everything on time, it wouldn't be an issue and suppliers wouldn't be holding back their orders, so they can blame the teams who have gone bust - which probably explains why they weren't willing to grant Manor dispensation to race their 2014 car, but some of the blame for their plight must be their own doing.
They still can't afford to pay for the car though. That much is clear. A team of Force India's stature should be able to pay for a chassis, so it's clear just how on the brink they really are.
I can honestly see them not competing this year - the signs are just too ominous for me!

If they don't make it to the grid in Oz... we must surely be at a tipping point for the sport??

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by colinp »

Hummm but if they cant finish building a 2015 car they shot them selves in the foot by banning the 2014 cars - doesn't make sense

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Sutton »

SILVAF0XX wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
JohnnyGuitar wrote:Force India have blamed the Caterham and Marussia situations for suppliers playing hardball with them over payments, they say that has delayed their 2015 car.

There's almost certainly some truth in that, but if FI paid for everything on time, it wouldn't be an issue and suppliers wouldn't be holding back their orders, so they can blame the teams who have gone bust - which probably explains why they weren't willing to grant Manor dispensation to race their 2014 car, but some of the blame for their plight must be their own doing.
They still can't afford to pay for the car though. That much is clear. A team of Force India's stature should be able to pay for a chassis, so it's clear just how on the brink they really are.
I can honestly see them not competing this year - the signs are just too ominous for me!

If they don't make it to the grid in Oz... we must surely be at a tipping point for the sport??
Its a major worry now. 16 cars is an embarrassment. And of course, far too late to have 3rd drivers.

Personally, It would be a disaster for Hulkenberg to be without a F1 drive. Same with Perez tbh

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by SILVAF0XX »

Sutton wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
JohnnyGuitar wrote:Force India have blamed the Caterham and Marussia situations for suppliers playing hardball with them over payments, they say that has delayed their 2015 car.

There's almost certainly some truth in that, but if FI paid for everything on time, it wouldn't be an issue and suppliers wouldn't be holding back their orders, so they can blame the teams who have gone bust - which probably explains why they weren't willing to grant Manor dispensation to race their 2014 car, but some of the blame for their plight must be their own doing.
They still can't afford to pay for the car though. That much is clear. A team of Force India's stature should be able to pay for a chassis, so it's clear just how on the brink they really are.
I can honestly see them not competing this year - the signs are just too ominous for me!

If they don't make it to the grid in Oz... we must surely be at a tipping point for the sport??
Its a major worry now. 16 cars is an embarrassment. And of course, far too late to have 3rd drivers.

Personally, It would be a disaster for Hulkenberg to be without a F1 drive. Same with Perez tbh
I agree it would be a shame... but is it really too late for three car teams?

I'm not a fan of the idea by the way just pointing out that I bet they could easily produce the required resources. Perez and Hulkenberg would quite happily jump into a Merc, Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari in my opinion - as would any of the other drivers without a team this year. I also believe that they would have enough parts to produce three cars for the grid as well.

Surely the only potential sticking point would be the additional cost and logistics required to move the extra parts/staff

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Sutton »

SILVAF0XX wrote:
Sutton wrote:
SILVAF0XX wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
JohnnyGuitar wrote:Force India have blamed the Caterham and Marussia situations for suppliers playing hardball with them over payments, they say that has delayed their 2015 car.

There's almost certainly some truth in that, but if FI paid for everything on time, it wouldn't be an issue and suppliers wouldn't be holding back their orders, so they can blame the teams who have gone bust - which probably explains why they weren't willing to grant Manor dispensation to race their 2014 car, but some of the blame for their plight must be their own doing.
They still can't afford to pay for the car though. That much is clear. A team of Force India's stature should be able to pay for a chassis, so it's clear just how on the brink they really are.
I can honestly see them not competing this year - the signs are just too ominous for me!

If they don't make it to the grid in Oz... we must surely be at a tipping point for the sport??
Its a major worry now. 16 cars is an embarrassment. And of course, far too late to have 3rd drivers.

Personally, It would be a disaster for Hulkenberg to be without a F1 drive. Same with Perez tbh
I agree it would be a shame... but is it really too late for three car teams?

I'm not a fan of the idea by the way just pointing out that I bet they could easily produce the required resources. Perez and Hulkenberg would quite happily jump into a Merc, Red Bull, McLaren or Ferrari in my opinion - as would any of the other drivers without a team this year. I also believe that they would have enough parts to produce three cars for the grid as well.

Surely the only potential sticking point would be the additional cost and logistics required to move the extra parts/staff
Maybe it can be done. Will just need to wait and see what happens with Force India. What I cannot understand is why doesnt Haas buy them out and start his team rather than starting 100% from scratch in 2016?

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

No team will run a third car this late into pre season preparations.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by SILVAF0XX »

They could run their 2014 cars as a third car :twisted:

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by shoot999 »

colinp wrote:Hummm but if they cant finish building a 2015 car they shot them selves in the foot by banning the 2014 cars - doesn't make sense
This is what I'm waiting for. FI to go cap in hand and ask for dispensation to run a 2014 car. :lol:

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

shoot999 wrote:
colinp wrote:Hummm but if they cant finish building a 2015 car they shot them selves in the foot by banning the 2014 cars - doesn't make sense
This is what I'm waiting for. FI to go cap in hand and ask for dispensation to run a 2014 car. :lol:
After Manor get on the grid with a 2015 spec car. Then Manor protest...
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

Laura23 wrote: Autosport claimed that changed and they are still owe them outstanding payments, I would assume for the new 2015 power units. The 2014 ones were paid up late in Dec. The chassis certainly hasn't been paid for and remains with the company that built it and where it will remain until Force India pay for it upfront.
Not saying that you're wrong, but I still have questions about this. About the PU's, which source did Autosport mention that would have more credibility than Lauda?
And about the chassis, what information is there to claim with certainty that they haven't paid it? Isn't all of this just hearsay and rumors?
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

mds wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Autosport claimed that changed and they are still owe them outstanding payments, I would assume for the new 2015 power units. The 2014 ones were paid up late in Dec. The chassis certainly hasn't been paid for and remains with the company that built it and where it will remain until Force India pay for it upfront.
Not saying that you're wrong, but I still have questions about this. About the PU's, which source did Autosport mention that would have more credibility than Lauda?
And about the chassis, what information is there to claim with certainty that they haven't paid it? Isn't all of this just hearsay and rumors?
The company making the chassis for them themselves said that they were still awaiting payment and that they were holding the chassis until such a time as they received it.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

Laura23 wrote:
mds wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Autosport claimed that changed and they are still owe them outstanding payments, I would assume for the new 2015 power units. The 2014 ones were paid up late in Dec. The chassis certainly hasn't been paid for and remains with the company that built it and where it will remain until Force India pay for it upfront.
Not saying that you're wrong, but I still have questions about this. About the PU's, which source did Autosport mention that would have more credibility than Lauda?
And about the chassis, what information is there to claim with certainty that they haven't paid it? Isn't all of this just hearsay and rumors?
The company making the chassis for them themselves said that they were still awaiting payment and that they were holding the chassis until such a time as they received it.
Do you have a source?

Because what I'm finding is this:
The new car has yet to be seen in part because cash flow issues led to delays with the arrival of key components from outside suppliers. However the first chassis has been delivered, and it is now being readied for Barcelona. The team does of course have to get the VJM08 through all its FIA crash tests before it can run in Spain.

“The chassis is in production and is being worked on at Silverstone,” Fernley told this writer.
AMuS reported the same through Szafnauer: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 54568.html
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Laura23 »

mds wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
mds wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Autosport claimed that changed and they are still owe them outstanding payments, I would assume for the new 2015 power units. The 2014 ones were paid up late in Dec. The chassis certainly hasn't been paid for and remains with the company that built it and where it will remain until Force India pay for it upfront.
Not saying that you're wrong, but I still have questions about this. About the PU's, which source did Autosport mention that would have more credibility than Lauda?
And about the chassis, what information is there to claim with certainty that they haven't paid it? Isn't all of this just hearsay and rumors?
The company making the chassis for them themselves said that they were still awaiting payment and that they were holding the chassis until such a time as they received it.
Do you have a source?

Because what I'm finding is this:
The new car has yet to be seen in part because cash flow issues led to delays with the arrival of key components from outside suppliers. However the first chassis has been delivered, and it is now being readied for Barcelona. The team does of course have to get the VJM08 through all its FIA crash tests before it can run in Spain.

“The chassis is in production and is being worked on at Silverstone,” Fernley told this writer.
AMuS reported the same through Szafnauer: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 54568.html
I wouldn't trust Fernley as far as I could throw him. AMuS are a reliable source and one of their best jounros Michael Schmidt has said they are owe millions in debt. The carbon manufacture EPM have denied that they have been late producing the chassis and said that they were waiting for outstanding payment from Force India.

What is certain is that it's a mess. No one is buying the chassis delays now because it wouldn't take this long to sort it out. But money could clay thing for this length of time rather easily. Mallya is in deep trouble himself, his F1 partner is in jail. Force India are in damage limitation mode right now because they don't want all their money flow cut off because they have so much still to pay out. So it makes sense as to why they'd deny things as heavily as they have been.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

Laura23 wrote: I wouldn't trust Fernley as far as I could throw him. AMuS are a reliable source and one of their best jounros Michael Schmidt has said they are owe millions in debt.
Well I don't find Schmidt saying that they do. I do find an article of Schmidt, dated later, where he interviews Szafnauer.
That's why I'm asking for sources. Can you please provide those?
The carbon manufacture EPM have denied that they have been late producing the chassis and said that they were waiting for outstanding payment from Force India.
"were". Which doesn't negate the possibility that they have been paid by now and that they have delivered the chassis, as claimed by Fernley and Szafnauer.
No one is buying the chassis delays now because it wouldn't take this long to sort it out.
Delayed chassis delivery and delayed wind tunnel time means delayed build-up of the car and missing tests. That much makes sense.

I'm not saying they're in a good place but when people start throwing things around like "chassis certainly hasn't been paid for" I'm raising my eyebrows and I do like to see where that certainty stems from. I have this feeling you're not distinguishing fact from rumor all too well.
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by w1Y! »

Honestly I just think vj is very unprofessional when it comes to paying and also managing intercompany finances. However, it may suit FI if they can give the image of struggling because the sport would really be under pressure.

Quite frankly if they are having issues then cost control
Really needs to be looked at. With red bull wanting more changes it really does seem that costs aren't going to be falling anytime soon

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by spiritone »

Is there live timing anywhere?

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mds
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

So, testing starts in half an hour.
Some guideline times:
- 2013 preseason testing, fastest time: 1:20.130 (Rosberg)
- 2014 pole position: 1:25.232 (Hamilton)

I keep forgetting the good sites to follow this. Anyone has a site that offers both lap count and lap times?
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by dizlexik »

mds wrote:So, testing starts in half an hour.
Some guideline times:
- 2013 preseason testing, fastest time: 1:20.130 (Rosberg)
- 2014 pole position: 1:25.232 (Hamilton)

I keep forgetting the good sites to follow this. Anyone has a site that offers both lap count and lap times?
http://www.f1today.net/en/live/2015/02/ ... -catalunya
eeee

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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by Zoue »


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mds
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by mds »

dizlexik wrote:
mds wrote:So, testing starts in half an hour.
Some guideline times:
- 2013 preseason testing, fastest time: 1:20.130 (Rosberg)
- 2014 pole position: 1:25.232 (Hamilton)

I keep forgetting the good sites to follow this. Anyone has a site that offers both lap count and lap times?
http://www.f1today.net/en/live/2015/02/ ... -catalunya
Thanks, I think this is the one I keep forgetting. :)
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dizlexik
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Re: Barcelona Testing

Post by dizlexik »

mds wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
mds wrote:So, testing starts in half an hour.
Some guideline times:
- 2013 preseason testing, fastest time: 1:20.130 (Rosberg)
- 2014 pole position: 1:25.232 (Hamilton)

I keep forgetting the good sites to follow this. Anyone has a site that offers both lap count and lap times?
http://www.f1today.net/en/live/2015/02/ ... -catalunya
Thanks, I think this is the one I keep forgetting. :)
You're welcome. I have a lot of F1 related sites bookmarked at work :)
eeee

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