Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

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Robot
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Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Robot »

-"Hamilton renewal? We will discuss it during the year but I’m optimistic, Alonso is the first alternative,then Bottas”

-”Alonso at McLaren? He’s dangerous with any car. If he have a car that can arrive 6th, he can takes it in 3rd place”

From today interview in La Gazzetta. http://t.co/jHdUFQR4nG

Really interesting that they are going to wait to finalize Hamilton's renewal and also very interesting that Alonso will be the main goal if Hamilton renewal fail, I guess it could be true that Alonso can get out of McLaren whenever he wants?.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by F1Tyrant »

Robot wrote:Really interesting that they are going to wait to finalize Hamilton's renewal and also very interesting that Alonso will be the main goal if Hamilton renewal fail, I guess it could be true that Alonso can get out of McLaren whenever he wants?.
I think its a good idea to delay until the end of the contract if the Mercedes 2015 car isn't up to scratch or the rules change in 2016. Hamilton is in a better position than Rosberg. Nico had to renew straight away as Merc may be the only time he has a top drive bar some Brawn GP-esque fluke.

An engine unfreeze in 2016 will give a couple of teams the opportunity to catch and overtake Mercedes. If Vettel is matched by Kimi then Ferrari may go all out to sign Hamilton from Mercedes for 2016+. Hamilton and Vettel in the same team would be fascinating!
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

I don't think there is anything new really in the first part, Mercedes first objective is to re-sign Hamilton, if that fails then they wanted Alonso and I think they may have even contacted him to see if he was available, it's even been said that Alonso cleared it at Ferrari to leave if Mercedes came a calling.

The second part is in Italian so I'm in the dark, I guess its saying that Alonso has a get out clause for 2016 which would surprise me that McLaren agreed to that.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by shoot999 »

Maybe the writings on the wall when the boss can't even remember..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zEBdP ... 2e3744ab10

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by ReservoirDog »

shoot999 wrote:Maybe the writings on the wall when the boss can't even remember..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zEBdP ... 2e3744ab10
Toto forgot Lewis, Nico forgot his dad...

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by davidheath461 »

Robot wrote:
-”Alonso at McLaren? He’s dangerous with any car. If he have a car that can arrive 6th, he can takes it in 3rd place”
He must have been brainwashed.

If a car that can only come 6th, then it's physically impossible to make it come 3rd. You can't outperform a car. :lol: :uhoh:

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by shoot999 »

davidheath461 wrote:
Robot wrote:
-”Alonso at McLaren? He’s dangerous with any car. If he have a car that can arrive 6th, he can takes it in 3rd place”
He must have been brainwashed.

If a car that can only come 6th, then it's physically impossible to make it come 3rd. You can't outperform a car. :lol: :uhoh:
He can if three of the drivers in front of him are not at his level and its his superior skills that make the difference. ;)

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

ReservoirDog wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Maybe the writings on the wall when the boss can't even remember..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88zEBdP ... 2e3744ab10
Toto forgot Lewis, Nico forgot his dad...
They nearly all forgot Alonso........
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by paulsf1fix »

I thought that Alonso has a long deal with McLaren, I dunno why but I can't see Fernando running for the hills after one year returning back to Woking. I also I can't imagine Mercedes would want to get rid of Hamilton either.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Ennis »

paulsf1fix wrote:I thought that Alonso has a long deal with McLaren, I dunno why but I can't see Fernando running for the hills after one year returning back to Woking. I also I can't imagine Mercedes would want to get rid of Hamilton either.
It's more of a this is our plan if that plan fails. Imagine its a bit of a heads up for Hamilton not to get too cocky too.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by jrwb6e »

Ennis wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:I thought that Alonso has a long deal with McLaren, I dunno why but I can't see Fernando running for the hills after one year returning back to Woking. I also I can't imagine Mercedes would want to get rid of Hamilton either.
It's more of a this is our plan if that plan fails. Imagine its a bit of a heads up for Hamilton not to get too cocky too.
It's a negotiating ploy more than anything else.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Balibari »

jrwb6e wrote:
Ennis wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:I thought that Alonso has a long deal with McLaren, I dunno why but I can't see Fernando running for the hills after one year returning back to Woking. I also I can't imagine Mercedes would want to get rid of Hamilton either.
It's more of a this is our plan if that plan fails. Imagine its a bit of a heads up for Hamilton not to get too cocky too.
It's a negotiating ploy more than anything else.
Yeah. He and Hamilton both implied these negotiations would be settled easily. We know they want to stay together so I'd guess the impasse is money related. Wolff isn't telling us something we already know. He's telling Hamilton the disagreement is moving on to the next level and asking if he really wants that.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Chunky »

It's just a staightforward negotiating tactic. Wolff is saying, "Okay, we want you, but we need to talk about less money". If you can't do it cheaper, Alonso will crawl over broken glass to drive a Merc.

The real threat for the seat is Bottas, 'cos he will be cheap and is a rising star. Alonso is only an option if he's willing to either drive for free or bring Santander with him.

.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by mas »

Hamilton is just stalling to wait and see how the competition measures up next year. He will accept a slightly lower salary if Mercedes is still dominant but if McLaren-Honda start kicking butt he will replace Button next year in it.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by F1Tyrant »

mas wrote:Hamilton is just stalling to wait and see how the competition measures up next year. He will accept a slightly lower salary if Mercedes is still dominant but if McLaren-Honda start kicking butt he will replace Button next year in it.
It's far more likely to be that Lewis would replace Alonso partnering Magnussen. McLaren are not going down the Hamilton Alonso road ever again...
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Chunky wrote:It's just a staightforward negotiating tactic. Wolff is saying, "Okay, we want you, but we need to talk about less money". If you can't do it cheaper, Alonso will crawl over broken glass to drive a Merc.

The real threat for the seat is Bottas, 'cos he will be cheap and is a rising star. Alonso is only an option if he's willing to either drive for free or bring Santander with him.

.
I don't believe it has anything to do with a pay cut, the rumour is that Hamilton has been offered a slight pay increase so it might be that Hamilton just wants that bit more, or maybe any delays might have a bit more to do with just the money itself whatever that might be
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Zoue »

F1Tyrant wrote:
mas wrote:Hamilton is just stalling to wait and see how the competition measures up next year. He will accept a slightly lower salary if Mercedes is still dominant but if McLaren-Honda start kicking butt he will replace Button next year in it.
It's far more likely to be that Lewis would replace Alonso partnering Magnussen. McLaren are not going down the Hamilton Alonso road ever again...
Different circumstances. In 2007 Lewis took everyone by surprise with his performance. If they were to partner again everyone would be much better prepared. I'd like to see it happen, personally

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by mas »

F1Tyrant wrote:
mas wrote:Hamilton is just stalling to wait and see how the competition measures up next year. He will accept a slightly lower salary if Mercedes is still dominant but if McLaren-Honda start kicking butt he will replace Button next year in it.
It's far more likely to be that Lewis would replace Alonso partnering Magnussen. McLaren are not going down the Hamilton Alonso road ever again...
No, because we already know that Ron wanted Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel to drive for him in 2015 and probably in that order too. Only Alonso was ultimately available and Button was chosen as the best of his current drivers to pair with him. Alonso obviously respects Hamilton now as a fellow dual-champion so there would be none of that No.1 driver vs rookie nonsense again. The biggest step has already been taken, the mending of the Ron/Alonso relationship, the rest would be easy. Hamilton is not stupid, he wants to see if Mercedes retain their lead in 2015 before signing another x years of his life with them especially with the new unknown Mclaren-Honda joker thrown into the ring now.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Prema »

mas wrote:Hamilton is just stalling to wait and see how the competition measures up next year.
mas wrote:Hamilton is not stupid, he wants to see if Mercedes retain their lead in 2015 before signing another x years of his life with them especially with the new unknown Mclaren-Honda joker thrown into the ring now.
In other words, he would not want to gamble anything but still profit big? Yes, that may not be stupid, but in Mercedes may not be stupid people either.

You are quite possibly depicting a situation in which Mercedes would be far less dependent on Hamilton to win the titles than Hamilton would be dependent on Mercedes. If you take this year as the example, and you take Hamilton out of equation, both of the titles would had been won just as convincingly. If Hamilton is really the one who is stalling the renewal of the contract with Mercedes out of the above mentioned reason, then it could easily backfire. Mercedes is currently perhaps the dream team of any given F1 driver.

A better negotiating situation for a driver of Hamilton caliber would rather be such where there is a dose of uncertainty about wether the car will be the dominating one.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

I don't believe it has anything to do with money.

McLaren tried that pay cut tactic and had to backtrack and offer him even more than he was probably asking for.

No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.

I believe Lewis is stalling for leverage next season as the team may wish to give Nico a WDC and promise Lewis the following year, Lewis wouldn't agree to that or like to be put in that position by signing multiple years too soon .

Half way through next season he'd be on his way to third title.
He can then stay or walk with his three desired titles, and take his chances for one or two more with another team.
It was also rumoured that Alonso's management had been trying a straight swap with Lewis or Nico and Mr Wolff said no.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by VDV23 »

Qiwater wrote:No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.
I think you're overexaggerating Lewis' (and F1 drivers' in general) influence and importance TBH Whitmarsh and Mattiacci didn't make way because of losing their star driver.

Not to mention that Merc have the "leverage" currently given how dominant their car is. It's not like they won the WDC/WCC because Hamilton and Rosberg were finding time that no one else on the grid could.

That being said I have no idea what's the hold-up for the contract to be renewed. It's usually money or money-related thing (like attending PR events) so I'm gonna go with that.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Zoue »

VDV23 wrote:
Qiwater wrote:No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.
I think you're overexaggerating Lewis' (and F1 drivers' in general) influence and importance TBH Whitmarsh and Mattiacci didn't make way because of losing their star driver.

Not to mention that Merc have the "leverage" currently given how dominant their car is. It's not like they won the WDC/WCC because Hamilton and Rosberg were finding time that no one else on the grid could.

That being said I have no idea what's the hold-up for the contract to be renewed. It's usually money or money-related thing (like attending PR events) so I'm gonna go with that.
I'd have to agree that Merc appear to have the leverage here. Much as I'm sure they do want to extend Lewis, if he chooses not to sign their car is so competitive it wouldn't be the end of the world for them. And it's not as though they would have a shortage of drivers queuing up to take his place. They are in a very different position to e.g. McLaren in 2014, where they simply had to get a big driver to push forwards with.

I can't see Wolff being nervous about this, either. I'm sure he didn't get to where he is by showing nerves over a simple contract, especially when he holds most of the aces. Nico's not as good as Lewis, but should Lewis go he's more than capable of getting poles and leading from the front. I think in any negotiation Lewis currently has more to lose than Mercedes.

I agree with others who think that it's more likely a gentle reminder to Lewis that Mercedes can have their pick of drivers. Other than that, I don't think there are any hidden messages here. WYSIWYG.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

Zoue wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Qiwater wrote:No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.
I think you're overexaggerating Lewis' (and F1 drivers' in general) influence and importance TBH Whitmarsh and Mattiacci didn't make way because of losing their star driver.

Not to mention that Merc have the "leverage" currently given how dominant their car is. It's not like they won the WDC/WCC because Hamilton and Rosberg were finding time that no one else on the grid could.

That being said I have no idea what's the hold-up for the contract to be renewed. It's usually money or money-related thing (like attending PR events) so I'm gonna go with that.
I'd have to agree that Merc appear to have the leverage here. Much as I'm sure they do want to extend Lewis, if he chooses not to sign their car is so competitive it wouldn't be the end of the world for them. And it's not as though they would have a shortage of drivers queuing up to take his place. They are in a very different position to e.g. McLaren in 2014, where they simply had to get a big driver to push forwards with.

I can't see Wolff being nervous about this, either. I'm sure he didn't get to where he is by showing nerves over a simple contract, especially when he holds most of the aces. Nico's not as good as Lewis, but should Lewis go he's more than capable of getting poles and leading from the front. I think in any negotiation Lewis currently has more to lose than Mercedes.

I agree with others who think that it's more likely a gentle reminder to Lewis that Mercedes can have their pick of drivers. Other than that, I don't think there are any hidden messages here. WYSIWYG.

Lewis is already paid handsomely by Mercedes and as Nico has apparently had his pay raised from twelve to seventeen million one can safely assume that lewis will be offered more in his new contract or a improbable explanation as to why his teammate is worth a raise and he isn't .

Alonso is the highest paid driver of all so he doesn't come cheap, and Alonso"s ego would not allow him to take a substantial pay cut to drive for Mercedes.

Lewis brings more to Mercedes as a brand than just his speed. The sales of Mercedes have increased globally apart from Germany.

Neither Alonso nor Bottas can better him in that aspect.

Alonso can bring Santander, but Mercedes are in the business of selling cars globally .

As stated the Merc is superior so does not need the apparent extra tenths that Alonso has in his pocket and the drama that brings with it.

But lets remember the three wins Ricciardo took when lewis was compromised..

I remember similar posts and talk of money when Lewis left McLaren for Mercedes ,you were all proved wrong then and I think will be proved wrong again.

Lewis does not need reminding that there are other capable drivers on the grid . that is just plain rude and amateurish.
He also would not expect to be told that his teammate with all of six wins is getting a fifty percent increase and he.....the current WDC with 11 wins will be asked to take a pay cut. Mercedes are far too professional for that malarkey.


No Lewis is the one stalling here and its not for money , could be little things that have been bugging him like sharing of data and inflexible strategy on race day, which did compromise him a couple of times last season.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Zoue »

Qiwater wrote:
Zoue wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Qiwater wrote:No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.
I think you're overexaggerating Lewis' (and F1 drivers' in general) influence and importance TBH Whitmarsh and Mattiacci didn't make way because of losing their star driver.

Not to mention that Merc have the "leverage" currently given how dominant their car is. It's not like they won the WDC/WCC because Hamilton and Rosberg were finding time that no one else on the grid could.

That being said I have no idea what's the hold-up for the contract to be renewed. It's usually money or money-related thing (like attending PR events) so I'm gonna go with that.
I'd have to agree that Merc appear to have the leverage here. Much as I'm sure they do want to extend Lewis, if he chooses not to sign their car is so competitive it wouldn't be the end of the world for them. And it's not as though they would have a shortage of drivers queuing up to take his place. They are in a very different position to e.g. McLaren in 2014, where they simply had to get a big driver to push forwards with.

I can't see Wolff being nervous about this, either. I'm sure he didn't get to where he is by showing nerves over a simple contract, especially when he holds most of the aces. Nico's not as good as Lewis, but should Lewis go he's more than capable of getting poles and leading from the front. I think in any negotiation Lewis currently has more to lose than Mercedes.

I agree with others who think that it's more likely a gentle reminder to Lewis that Mercedes can have their pick of drivers. Other than that, I don't think there are any hidden messages here. WYSIWYG.

Lewis is already paid handsomely by Mercedes and as Nico has apparently had his pay raised from twelve to seventeen million one can safely assume that lewis will be offered more in his new contract or a improbable explanation as to why his teammate is worth a raise and he isn't .

Alonso is the highest paid driver of all so he doesn't come cheap, and Alonso"s ego would not allow him to take a substantial pay cut to drive for Mercedes.

Lewis brings more to Mercedes as a brand than just his speed. The sales of Mercedes have increased globally apart from Germany.

Neither Alonso nor Bottas can better him in that aspect.

Alonso can bring Santander, but Mercedes are in the business of selling cars globally .

As stated the Merc is superior so does not need the apparent extra tenths that Alonso has in his pocket and the drama that brings with it.

But lets remember the three wins Ricciardo took when lewis was compromised..

I remember similar posts and talk of money when Lewis left McLaren for Mercedes ,you were all proved wrong then and I think will be proved wrong again.

Lewis does not need reminding that there are other capable drivers on the grid . that is just plain rude and amateurish.
He also would not expect to be told that his teammate with all of six wins is getting a fifty percent increase and he.....the current WDC with 11 wins will be asked to take a pay cut. Mercedes are far too professional for that malarkey.


No Lewis is the one stalling here and its not for money , could be little things that have been bugging him like sharing of data and inflexible strategy on race day, which did compromise him a couple of times last season.
Hang on, I never said anything about money. I just said that I think Mercedes will have the upper hand in negotiations - whatever they might be for. I don't know what all this proven wrong business is all about!

I'm sure Mercedes do want to keep him. But they they have the car that everyone wants to drive, so I'm sure they can afford to play a little harder than other teams on the grid at the moment, that's all.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

Zoue wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
Zoue wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Qiwater wrote:No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.
I think you're overexaggerating Lewis' (and F1 drivers' in general) influence and importance TBH Whitmarsh and Mattiacci didn't make way because of losing their star driver.

Not to mention that Merc have the "leverage" currently given how dominant their car is. It's not like they won the WDC/WCC because Hamilton and Rosberg were finding time that no one else on the grid could.

That being said I have no idea what's the hold-up for the contract to be renewed. It's usually money or money-related thing (like attending PR events) so I'm gonna go with that.
I'd have to agree that Merc appear to have the leverage here. Much as I'm sure they do want to extend Lewis, if he chooses not to sign their car is so competitive it wouldn't be the end of the world for them. And it's not as though they would have a shortage of drivers queuing up to take his place. They are in a very different position to e.g. McLaren in 2014, where they simply had to get a big driver to push forwards with.

I can't see Wolff being nervous about this, either. I'm sure he didn't get to where he is by showing nerves over a simple contract, especially when he holds most of the aces. Nico's not as good as Lewis, but should Lewis go he's more than capable of getting poles and leading from the front. I think in any negotiation Lewis currently has more to lose than Mercedes.

I agree with others who think that it's more likely a gentle reminder to Lewis that Mercedes can have their pick of drivers. Other than that, I don't think there are any hidden messages here. WYSIWYG.

Lewis is already paid handsomely by Mercedes and as Nico has apparently had his pay raised from twelve to seventeen million one can safely assume that lewis will be offered more in his new contract or a improbable explanation as to why his teammate is worth a raise and he isn't .

Alonso is the highest paid driver of all so he doesn't come cheap, and Alonso"s ego would not allow him to take a substantial pay cut to drive for Mercedes.

Lewis brings more to Mercedes as a brand than just his speed. The sales of Mercedes have increased globally apart from Germany.

Neither Alonso nor Bottas can better him in that aspect.

Alonso can bring Santander, but Mercedes are in the business of selling cars globally .

As stated the Merc is superior so does not need the apparent extra tenths that Alonso has in his pocket and the drama that brings with it.

But lets remember the three wins Ricciardo took when lewis was compromised..

I remember similar posts and talk of money when Lewis left McLaren for Mercedes ,you were all proved wrong then and I think will be proved wrong again.

Lewis does not need reminding that there are other capable drivers on the grid . that is just plain rude and amateurish.
He also would not expect to be told that his teammate with all of six wins is getting a fifty percent increase and he.....the current WDC with 11 wins will be asked to take a pay cut. Mercedes are far too professional for that malarkey.


No Lewis is the one stalling here and its not for money , could be little things that have been bugging him like sharing of data and inflexible strategy on race day, which did compromise him a couple of times last season.
Hang on, I never said anything about money. I just said that I think Mercedes will have the upper hand in negotiations - whatever they might be for. I don't know what all this proven wrong business is all about!

I'm sure Mercedes do want to keep him. But they they have the car that everyone wants to drive, so I'm sure they can afford to play a little harder than other teams on the grid at the moment, that's all.
My response was not directed solely at you .

They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Prema »

Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by LKS1 »

Qiwater wrote:
Zoue wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Qiwater wrote:No I think Mr Wolff's nerves are talking. He's not been in this situation before. He now finds himself having to deal directly with Lewis and not through a management company .
He's wary of Lewis's so called " emotions"

He also knows what happened to Whitmarsh and Mattiacci after failing to keep one of the F1 superstars aboard ship .
He's just babbling .
Lewis knows what he is doing and also has his father for advice if need be.
I think you're overexaggerating Lewis' (and F1 drivers' in general) influence and importance TBH Whitmarsh and Mattiacci didn't make way because of losing their star driver.

Not to mention that Merc have the "leverage" currently given how dominant their car is. It's not like they won the WDC/WCC because Hamilton and Rosberg were finding time that no one else on the grid could.

That being said I have no idea what's the hold-up for the contract to be renewed. It's usually money or money-related thing (like attending PR events) so I'm gonna go with that.
I'd have to agree that Merc appear to have the leverage here. Much as I'm sure they do want to extend Lewis, if he chooses not to sign their car is so competitive it wouldn't be the end of the world for them. And it's not as though they would have a shortage of drivers queuing up to take his place. They are in a very different position to e.g. McLaren in 2014, where they simply had to get a big driver to push forwards with.

I can't see Wolff being nervous about this, either. I'm sure he didn't get to where he is by showing nerves over a simple contract, especially when he holds most of the aces. Nico's not as good as Lewis, but should Lewis go he's more than capable of getting poles and leading from the front. I think in any negotiation Lewis currently has more to lose than Mercedes.

I agree with others who think that it's more likely a gentle reminder to Lewis that Mercedes can have their pick of drivers. Other than that, I don't think there are any hidden messages here. WYSIWYG.

Lewis is already paid handsomely by Mercedes and as Nico has apparently had his pay raised from twelve to seventeen million one can safely assume that lewis will be offered more in his new contract or a improbable explanation as to why his teammate is worth a raise and he isn't .

Alonso is the highest paid driver of all so he doesn't come cheap, and Alonso"s ego would not allow him to take a substantial pay cut to drive for Mercedes.

Lewis brings more to Mercedes as a brand than just his speed. The sales of Mercedes have increased globally apart from Germany.

Neither Alonso nor Bottas can better him in that aspect.

Alonso can bring Santander, but Mercedes are in the business of selling cars globally .

As stated the Merc is superior so does not need the apparent extra tenths that Alonso has in his pocket and the drama that brings with it.

But lets remember the three wins Ricciardo took when lewis was compromised..

I remember similar posts and talk of money when Lewis left McLaren for Mercedes ,you were all proved wrong then and I think will be proved wrong again.

Lewis does not need reminding that there are other capable drivers on the grid . that is just plain rude and amateurish.
He also would not expect to be told that his teammate with all of six wins is getting a fifty percent increase and he.....the current WDC with 11 wins will be asked to take a pay cut. Mercedes are far too professional for that malarkey.


No Lewis is the one stalling here and its not for money , could be little things that have been bugging him like sharing of data and inflexible strategy on race day, which did compromise him a couple of times last season.
You could well be right.

I agree with a previous poster that 'Alonso would crawl over broken glass' to get in the '15 Merc (regardless of money) - but '16 is too far in the future to be sure that the Merc will still be entirely dominant.

I also think its entirely possible that Lewis may be holding back because he doesn't want an equal policy - i.e. data sharing or strategies that only benefit the driver leading the race.

On the other hand its also likely that the delay is 'cos they are 'arguing' over money.

Qiwater
Posts: 1289
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.
Which is why Lewis has clearly stated that he is very happy with the team and renewing the contract is just a formality and Mercedes have expressed a keen desire to continue with him .

So why people are imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for more money, I have no idea.
Lewis's track record shows loyalty to the companies that helped him into F1 McLaren and Mercedes.

There were no signs of him doing that whilst with McLaren , in fact they offered him more that Mercedes to stay and he turned it down.

Mercedes have also praised the development skills he bought to the team and Mr Wolffe has stated many times his surprise at how different Lewis is to that the person described by the press and media.

2016 is likely to bring more changes I'm sure Lewis would like to keep his options flexible .
I'm also sure that Mercedes know that if those changes bring the other teams closer , which they will be designed to do .. Then a driver of Lewis's skill set is essential.

If the other teams were closer I dont think Nico would have got as many second places as he did.

They both need each other and Mr Wolff needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job .

I said the same of Mattiacci when he was playing hard ball with Alonso you do not lose one of the two best drivers on the grid and keep your job, even if you bring in another good one ie Vettel.

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LKS1
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by LKS1 »

Qiwater wrote:
Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.
Which is why Lewis has clearly stated that he is very happy with the team and renewing the contract is just a formality and Mercedes have expressed a keen desire to continue with him .

So why people are imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for more money, I have no idea.
Lewis's track record shows loyalty to the companies that helped him into F1 McLaren and Mercedes.

There were no signs of him doing that whilst with McLaren , in fact they offered him more that Mercedes to stay and he turned it down.

Mercedes have also praised the development skills he bought to the team and Mr Wolffe has stated many times his surprise at how different Lewis is to that the person described by the press and media.

2016 is likely to bring more changes I'm sure Lewis would like to keep his options flexible .
I'm also sure that Mercedes know that if those changes bring the other teams closer , which they will be designed to do .. Then a driver of Lewis's skill set is essential.

If the other teams were closer I dont think Nico would have got as many second places as he did.

They both need each other and Mr Wolff needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job .

I said the same of Mattiacci when he was playing hard ball with Alonso you do not lose one of the two best drivers on the grid and keep your job, even if you bring in another good one ie Vettel.
Re. the first emboldened part - so why hasn't the contract been signed yet?

Re. the next - you may be right that someone has said this, but do you believe EVERY quote you hear from a current team member??

Negotiations that seemed to be obvious have stalled for some reason - and so far, plausible reasons are fairly limited.

Edit - Actually, arguing over money is the kindest explanation for the delay in signing contracts as opposed to other theories!

ZeroG
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by ZeroG »

Any excuse to criticise Lewis. Now its because he's DEMANDING more money. I suppose there is hard evidence that this is the reason why the contract has not been signed?

When Lewis left Mclaren there was criticism of his negotiating technique or lack of. I think its safe to assume that Lewis knows what he is doing.

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LKS1
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by LKS1 »

ZeroG wrote:Any excuse to criticise Lewis. Now its because he's DEMANDING more money. I suppose there is hard evidence that this is the reason why the contract has not been signed?

When Lewis left Mclaren there was criticism of his negotiating technique or lack of. I think its safe to assume that Lewis knows what he is doing.
I've missed the post that said the delay is 'cos Lewis is "DEMANDING more money"?

ZeroG
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by ZeroG »

LKS1 wrote:
ZeroG wrote:Any excuse to criticise Lewis. Now its because he's DEMANDING more money. I suppose there is hard evidence that this is the reason why the contract has not been signed?

When Lewis left Mclaren there was criticism of his negotiating technique or lack of. I think its safe to assume that Lewis knows what he is doing.
I've missed the post that said the delay is 'cos Lewis is "DEMANDING more money"?
Try reading the above posts.

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LKS1
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by LKS1 »

ZeroG wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
ZeroG wrote:Any excuse to criticise Lewis. Now its because he's DEMANDING more money. I suppose there is hard evidence that this is the reason why the contract has not been signed?

When Lewis left Mclaren there was criticism of his negotiating technique or lack of. I think its safe to assume that Lewis knows what he is doing.
I've missed the post that said the delay is 'cos Lewis is "DEMANDING more money"?
Try reading the above posts.
I did, and missed it - which is why I was asking you to be more specific in your allegation. :?

ZeroG
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by ZeroG »

LKS1 wrote:
ZeroG wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
ZeroG wrote:Any excuse to criticise Lewis. Now its because he's DEMANDING more money. I suppose there is hard evidence that this is the reason why the contract has not been signed?

When Lewis left Mclaren there was criticism of his negotiating technique or lack of. I think its safe to assume that Lewis knows what he is doing.
I've missed the post that said the delay is 'cos Lewis is "DEMANDING more money"?
Try reading the above posts.
I did, and missed it - which is why I was asking you to be more specific in your allegation. :?
Err...... "Actually, arguing over money is the kindest explanation for the delay in signing contracts as opposed to other theories"! Not sure I can be anymore specific.

Qiwater
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

LKS1 wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.
Which is why Lewis has clearly stated that he is very happy with the team and renewing the contract is just a formality and Mercedes have expressed a keen desire to continue with him .

So why people are imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for more money, I have no idea.
Lewis's track record shows loyalty to the companies that helped him into F1 McLaren and Mercedes.

There were no signs of him doing that whilst with McLaren , in fact they offered him more that Mercedes to stay and he turned it down.

Mercedes have also praised the development skills he bought to the team and Mr Wolffe has stated many times his surprise at how different Lewis is to that the person described by the press and media.

2016 is likely to bring more changes I'm sure Lewis would like to keep his options flexible .
I'm also sure that Mercedes know that if those changes bring the other teams closer , which they will be designed to do .. Then a driver of Lewis's skill set is essential.

If the other teams were closer I dont think Nico would have got as many second places as he did.

They both need each other and Mr Wolff needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job .

I said the same of Mattiacci when he was playing hard ball with Alonso you do not lose one of the two best drivers on the grid and keep your job, even if you bring in another good one ie Vettel.
Re. the first emboldened part - so why hasn't the contract been signed yet?

Re. the next - you may be right that someone has said this, but do you believe EVERY quote you hear from a current team member??

Negotiations that seemed to be obvious have stalled for some reason - and so far, plausible reasons are fairly limited.

Edit - Actually, arguing over money is the kindest explanation for the delay in signing contracts as opposed to other theories!

Lewis has a contract for 2015 there is no real hurry they can take their time and try to negotiate favourable terms for both parties.

That is what two people who wish to continue a harmonious relationship would do.

Mr Wolff responded to a particular question , in no way did he suggest there was a problem with the negotiations .
I have no reason to think that Toto Wolff would lie about his findings concerning Lewis's temperament, I trust journalists and people on forums less as their opinions like mine are based on perception / bias and not fact.

Prema
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Prema »

Qiwater wrote:
Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.
Which is why Lewis has clearly stated that he is very happy with the team and renewing the contract is just a formality and Mercedes have expressed a keen desire to continue with him .

So why people are imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for more money, I have no idea.
Lewis's track record shows loyalty to the companies that helped him into F1 McLaren and Mercedes.

There were no signs of him doing that whilst with McLaren , in fact they offered him more that Mercedes to stay and he turned it down.

Mercedes have also praised the development skills he bought to the team and Mr Wolffe has stated many times his surprise at how different Lewis is to that the person described by the press and media.

2016 is likely to bring more changes I'm sure Lewis would like to keep his options flexible .
I'm also sure that Mercedes know that if those changes bring the other teams closer , which they will be designed to do .. Then a driver of Lewis's skill set is essential.

If the other teams were closer I dont think Nico would have got as many second places as he did.

They both need each other and Mr Wolff needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job .

I said the same of Mattiacci when he was playing hard ball with Alonso you do not lose one of the two best drivers on the grid and keep your job, even if you bring in another good one ie Vettel.
I don't know about people imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for money. But people are apparently depicting him as being in the position to be stalling the negotiation as per his own interests such as, in particular, to evaluate which of the teams would come up with the best car in the coming year (and there the loyalty would go straight out of the window in such a case).

You are also in a way depicting Lewis as the one in the position to impose his conditions (whatever it already be) upon Mercedes, judging from your assessment that Toto Wolff is to be fired in the case they do not reach an agreement. In other words, if to keep his job, Toto Wolff better go kissing Hamilton's feet and go begging him to stay in Mercedes.
(Ferrari and Mattiacci, that is entirely an another saga, start another thread...)

Qiwater
Posts: 1289
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:11 pm

Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.
Which is why Lewis has clearly stated that he is very happy with the team and renewing the contract is just a formality and Mercedes have expressed a keen desire to continue with him .

So why people are imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for more money, I have no idea.
Lewis's track record shows loyalty to the companies that helped him into F1 McLaren and Mercedes.

There were no signs of him doing that whilst with McLaren , in fact they offered him more that Mercedes to stay and he turned it down.

Mercedes have also praised the development skills he bought to the team and Mr Wolffe has stated many times his surprise at how different Lewis is to that the person described by the press and media.

2016 is likely to bring more changes I'm sure Lewis would like to keep his options flexible .
I'm also sure that Mercedes know that if those changes bring the other teams closer , which they will be designed to do .. Then a driver of Lewis's skill set is essential.

If the other teams were closer I dont think Nico would have got as many second places as he did.

They both need each other and Mr Wolff needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job .

I said the same of Mattiacci when he was playing hard ball with Alonso you do not lose one of the two best drivers on the grid and keep your job, even if you bring in another good one ie Vettel.
I don't know about people imagining Lewis making unreasonable demands for money. But people are apparently depicting him as being in the position to be stalling the negotiation as per his own interests such as, in particular, to evaluate which of the teams would come up with the best car in the coming year (and there the loyalty would go straight out of the window in such a case).

You are also in a way depicting Lewis as the one in the position to impose his conditions (whatever it already be) upon Mercedes, judging from your assessment that Toto Wolff is to be fired in the case they do not reach an agreement. In other words, if to keep his job, Toto Wolff better go kissing Hamilton's feet and go begging him to stay in Mercedes.
(Ferrari and Mattiacci, that is entirely an another saga, start another thread...)
I have made no such assumption . Your imagination is once again getting the better of you.

I state again my opinion that Lewis and Merc both wish to continue with each other and have clearly expressed that desire.
Some stated that Merc hold all the power because they have the fastest car and could put " any driver on the grid " in it.

I said if that was the case they would not be courting Lewis and Alonso

Most are suggesting some obsession with money as being a problem with Lewis making demands I said
I see no reason for that assertion and felt if anything it would be related to sharing of data and race strategy , two things I heard Lewis comment on throughout the season.

Given all that I believe they will re-sign and for a considerable number of years with a get out clause for Lewis in 2016.

Why do you think Whitmarsh and more recently Mattiacci lost their positions . I believe it was due to them not achieving the objective of the board. ie retain the lead driver.
What do you think it was?

Zoue
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Zoue »

Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
They may have the car that "everybody" wants to drive , but as Lewis is their first choice and Alonso their second ... It clearly matters to them who drives their car, and the calibre of the driver is of prime
importance to them.
And in the same time, it clearly matters to Lewis what car he will drive in his future.

The point being, in the case of troubled negotiations when one side is stalling those (Lewis?), Mercedes will find themselves in a far lesser trouble to replace their winning driver for a winning driver in 2016, than their driver replacing his winning team for a winning team.
Again, I'd have to agree. It's not about Mercedes not caring whether Lewis stays - they clearly want to keep him; who wouldn't? But Lewis has more to lose should any deal fall through than Mercedes do. If Lewis goes somewhere else, then chances are he will forfeit any opportunity for the title. But Mercedes will still have a title-challenging car to give to whoever takes Lewis' place.

Of courser, should any of the other teams catch up massively in 2015 then it paints a different picture. But given that Mercedes hold such a massive advantage now it's unlikely that they will suddenly fall to being also-rans.

One final point: if Wolff is indeed in a weak position then I really can't see him weakening his hand further by exposing this so publicly. He's not some rookie himself. The only way this interview makes sense as a negotiating ploy is if he's sending a message that he's in a strong place and that he has options. And, of course, if it's not a negotiating ploy then there's no need to debate it ;)

Prema
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Prema »

Qiwater wrote:
I have made no such assumption . Your imagination is once again getting the better of you.
You actually made a lot of assumption by blankly stating that "Mr Wolffe" needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job. Where to start listening all those assumptions, would be the only question.
Why do you think Whitmarsh and more recently Mattiacci lost their positions . I believe it was due to them not achieving the objective of the board. ie retain the lead driver.
What do you think it was?
I don't know exactly why Whitmarsh lost his job. There was a lot of internal politics going on there, Dennis returning, McLaren cars performing miserably... In any case, he did not lose his job in the aftermath of Lewis leaving McLaren. Lewis left as Lewis wanted to leave, you can't force the horse to drink the water.

And Mattiacci, he was said to be not the best man for the job, period. Too much of such stuff has been going in Ferrari anyway, it is the time of a total re-organization. And regarding Alonso, he was even given the credit for it:

Behind the scenes, it had seemed that Mattiacci was making the right changes.
He boldly called Fernando Alonso's bluff and agreed to cut him loose if he did not offer the necessary commitment to Ferrari.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116930


Somehow or other, you seem to be imagining that F1 is about these drivers and that (re)signing them by all costs and means is the prime duty of the team principles and the prime objective of the boards. So that they (TPs) get fired or got to be fired if they do not (re)sign them, never mind what else. So never mind if Mercedes would go winning all the titles again, the man got to be fired since he did not re-sign Lewis, since they all in Mercedes must be all about Lewis and nothing and nobody else.

ZeroG
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by ZeroG »

Prema wrote:
Qiwater wrote:
I have made no such assumption . Your imagination is once again getting the better of you.
You actually made a lot of assumption by blankly stating that "Mr Wolffe" needs to make sure he re-signs Lewis or lose his job. Where to start listening all those assumptions, would be the only question.
Why do you think Whitmarsh and more recently Mattiacci lost their positions . I believe it was due to them not achieving the objective of the board. ie retain the lead driver.
What do you think it was?
I don't know exactly why Whitmarsh lost his job. There was a lot of internal politics going on there, Dennis returning, McLaren cars performing miserably... In any case, he did not lose his job in the aftermath of Lewis leaving McLaren. Lewis left as Lewis wanted to leave, you can't force the horse to drink the water.

And Mattiacci, he was said to be not the best man for the job, period. Too much of such stuff has been going in Ferrari anyway, it is the time of a total re-organization. And regarding Alonso, he was even given the credit for it:

Behind the scenes, it had seemed that Mattiacci was making the right changes.
He boldly called Fernando Alonso's bluff and agreed to cut him loose if he did not offer the necessary commitment to Ferrari.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116930


Somehow or other, you seem to be imagining that F1 is about these drivers and that (re)signing them by all costs and means is the prime duty of the team principles and the prime objective of the boards. So that they (TPs) get fired or got to be fired if they do not (re)sign them, never mind what else. So never mind if Mercedes would go winning all the titles again, the man got to be fired since he did not re-sign Lewis, since they all in Mercedes must be all about Lewis and nothing and nobody else.
Well it is about winning races and ultimately WCC/WDC. We don't know exactly what goes on behind closed doors and why Whitmarsh was actually fired but I would suggest that losing the best driver on the grid (Alonso might be the best but he was under contract at a different team) surely has to go against you.

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