Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

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pokerman
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
FringeUK wrote:I think Vettel stayed too long at RBR - he should have gone to Ferrari instead of Kimi. Just my view. He would have spent a useful year at Ferrari rather than a wasteful year at RBR?
Why oh why would Vettel ever want to drive the same car as Alonso? I don't see anything other than Vettel's reputation being injured in the same way as Daniel did, only people would say: "That is that, it was just the car all along."
This viewpoint makes the assumption Vettel believes he would be beaten by Alonso. If, as I suspect, he does not share that view what would there be to stop him?

Rightly or wrongly Vettel, like every other WDC, probably thinks he can take on and beat anyone.
All this has no reality though, Vettel was never going to be driving for Ferrari in 2014, and he wouldn't be driving for Ferrari this year if Alonso had not left.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
Well he is only one point behind in what most would say is an inferior car. So the obvious answer would be yes, or would it?

What Vettel struggled with a lot last year was tyre management and looking at the start of this season he still seems a bit hit and miss. He would have out qualified Nico IMO but the race could be interesting, the other thing to consider though is regardless of whether Vettel could manage his tyres as well as Nico, the latter isn't exactly renowned for the ability to overtake a slower car (though full credit to him he did well in Bahrain).
An argument could be made for the Ferrari being superior in 2 of the 4 races thus far, Mercedes had to run their car right on the reliability limit in the last race to gain a performance advantage over Ferrari and perhaps got lucky?
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
FringeUK wrote:I think Vettel stayed too long at RBR - he should have gone to Ferrari instead of Kimi. Just my view. He would have spent a useful year at Ferrari rather than a wasteful year at RBR?
Why oh why would Vettel ever want to drive the same car as Alonso? I don't see anything other than Vettel's reputation being injured in the same way as Daniel did, only people would say: "That is that, it was just the car all along."
This viewpoint makes the assumption Vettel believes he would be beaten by Alonso. If, as I suspect, he does not share that view what would there be to stop him?

Rightly or wrongly Vettel, like every other WDC, probably thinks he can take on and beat anyone.
All this has no reality though, Vettel was never going to be driving for Ferrari in 2014, and he wouldn't be driving for Ferrari this year if Alonso had not left.
Both true, but nothing to do with my point, which was in reply to the implication Vettel wouldn't partner Alonso because he thought he'd get beat.

He may very well do, but I doubt he thinks that.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by bourbon19 »

pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
What is with the questions? Who knows? Will Hamilton be beating Rosberg at the midseason? Last season my answer was a emphatic yes until we actually arrived at mid-season and Nico was 30 points ahead. Racing is man + machine and the problem with all the speculation is that you cannot second guess either.

Not sure exactly what this has to do with Hamilton's contract. Vettel isn't going to Merc anytime soon.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by lbennie »

pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
Easily imo.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by ReservoirDog »

Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Vettel, no doubt in my mind about it.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by shoot999 »

ReservoirDog wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Vettel, no doubt in my mind about it.
Rosberg

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

Nico ...
It's Lewis that's thrown him off his game Nico could handle Vettel

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by AravJ »

Qiwater wrote:Nico ...
It's Lewis that's thrown him off his game Nico could handle Vettel
Well Vettel has been winning the battle of the witts in the driver interviews, Nico seems to get pretty rattled

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

AravJ wrote:
Qiwater wrote:Nico ...
It's Lewis that's thrown him off his game Nico could handle Vettel
Well Vettel has been winning the battle of the witts in the driver interviews, Nico seems to get pretty rattled

Nico was just using Vettel as a diversion to take his mind off Lewis a bit like long distance driving
averting your gaze and refocusing .

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
FringeUK wrote:I think Vettel stayed too long at RBR - he should have gone to Ferrari instead of Kimi. Just my view. He would have spent a useful year at Ferrari rather than a wasteful year at RBR?
Why oh why would Vettel ever want to drive the same car as Alonso? I don't see anything other than Vettel's reputation being injured in the same way as Daniel did, only people would say: "That is that, it was just the car all along."
This viewpoint makes the assumption Vettel believes he would be beaten by Alonso. If, as I suspect, he does not share that view what would there be to stop him?

Rightly or wrongly Vettel, like every other WDC, probably thinks he can take on and beat anyone.
All this has no reality though, Vettel was never going to be driving for Ferrari in 2014, and he wouldn't be driving for Ferrari this year if Alonso had not left.
Both true, but nothing to do with my point, which was in reply to the implication Vettel wouldn't partner Alonso because he thought he'd get beat.

He may very well do, but I doubt he thinks that.
Fair enough but I still find it highly unlikely that Vettel would have joined Ferrari whilst Alonso was still incumbent in the team
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
What is with the questions? Who knows? Will Hamilton be beating Rosberg at the midseason? Last season my answer was a emphatic yes until we actually arrived at mid-season and Nico was 30 points ahead. Racing is man + machine and the problem with all the speculation is that you cannot second guess either.

Not sure exactly what this has to do with Hamilton's contract. Vettel isn't going to Merc anytime soon.
You would still question Hamilton's ability to beat Rosberg?

The questions are in fact important to Hamilton's contract in ascertaining how important Hamilton is too Mercedes in a car that is no longer out and out dominant.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

lbennie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
Easily imo.
Well he's not easily beating Kimi and we know what happened last season, I think it's very much open to question.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

AravJ wrote:
Qiwater wrote:Nico ...
It's Lewis that's thrown him off his game Nico could handle Vettel
Well Vettel has been winning the battle of the witts in the driver interviews, Nico seems to get pretty rattled
He's rattled by Hamilton and was seemingly looking for an ally in Vettel to help him out which kind of backfired.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Qiwater »

pokerman wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Qiwater wrote:Nico ...
It's Lewis that's thrown him off his game Nico could handle Vettel
Well Vettel has been winning the battle of the witts in the driver interviews, Nico seems to get pretty rattled
He's rattled by Hamilton and was seemingly looking for an ally in Vettel to help him out which kind of backfired.
Exactly

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

pokerman wrote:
lbennie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
Easily imo.
Well he's not easily beating Kimi and we know what happened last season, I think it's very much open to question.
Raikkonen could beat the below drivers who were below the age of 40* at least one season;

David Coulthard (13)
Juan Pablo Montoya (7)
Felipe Massa (11)
Romain Grosjean (0)

Nico Rosberg beat the below drivers who were below 40;

Kazuki Nakajima (0)
Alexander Wurz (0)


**********************
So, Raikkonen would have beaten Lewis in Ferrari with F15T i am afraid. What we see in Mercedes right now is that Lewis is beating Rosberg like Webber did in Williams. Nothing unexpected here. To be precise, Webber had so much talent that ONLY Vettel could dominate him convincingly over teammate period. Webber was one of the names Schumacher gave us in 2006 to watch out.

He was right.




* Damon Hill was a prime example of how 39 years of age disadvantaged him against a young Frentzen in 1999.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by F1Tyrant »

Need4Naiim wrote:So, Raikkonen would have beaten Lewis in Ferrari with F14T i am afraid. What we see in Mercedes right now is that Lewis is beating Rosberg like Webber did in Williams. Nothing unexpected here. To be precise, Webber had so much talent that ONLY Vettel could dominate him convincingly over teammate period. Webber was one of the names Schumacher gave us in 2006 to watch out.
You are mental, N4N. Raikkonen would have lost to Hamilton in the F14T in a big way but not quite as much as Alonso dominated him. Webber was a journeyman who got a lucky break at Red Bull.

Barrichello ≈ Webber

Edit: The way Lewis is driving this season, Kimi wouldn't stand a chance.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

F1Tyrant wrote:Raikkonen would have lost to Hamilton in the F14T in a big way but not quite as much as Alonso dominated him.

Barrichello ≈ Webber
Yes, he would of lost like you say with Ferrari's 2014 car. But, imho, Raikkonen would have beat Lewis Hamilton consistently <apart from China, Canada, Hungary, Abu-Dhabi> with Ferrari's latest car:


SF15T
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Need4Naiim wrote:
pokerman wrote:
lbennie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
Easily imo.
Well he's not easily beating Kimi and we know what happened last season, I think it's very much open to question.
Raikkonen could beat the below drivers who were below the age of 40* at least one season;

David Coulthard (13)
Juan Pablo Montoya (7)
Felipe Massa (11)
Romain Grosjean (0)

Nico Rosberg beat the below drivers who were below 40;

Kazuki Nakajima (0)
Alexander Wurz (0)


**********************
So, Raikkonen would have beaten Lewis in Ferrari with F15T i am afraid. What we see in Mercedes right now is that Lewis is beating Rosberg like Webber did in Williams. Nothing unexpected here. To be precise, Webber had so much talent that ONLY Vettel could dominate him convincingly over teammate period. Webber was one of the names Schumacher gave us in 2006 to watch out.

He was right.




* Damon Hill was a prime example of how 39 years of age disadvantaged him against a young Frentzen in 1999.
Does any of that actually make any sense?

Also yet again making things fit to try and make some kind of argument, we factor in Webber beating Rosberg when he was a rookie, but apparently a few days ago you were writing that despite the Hulk losing to Rubens as a rookie this in fact made him so much stronger because he learnt so much from Rubens, apparently we must assume then that Rosberg learnt nothing from Webber, you play both sides of the argument it's just whatever suits at the time.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Need4Naiim wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:Raikkonen would have lost to Hamilton in the F14T in a big way but not quite as much as Alonso dominated him.

Barrichello ≈ Webber
Yes, he would of lost like you say with Ferrari's 2014 car. But, imho, Raikkonen would have beat Lewis Hamilton consistently <apart from China, Canada, Hungary, Abu-Dhabi> with Ferrari's latest car:


SF15T
There is no evidence, proof for that statement whatsoever, a driver that has had losing seasons against Massa, Alonso and is currently losing against Vettel in a car that apparently suits him down to the ground would have no trouble in beating Hamilton, a double world champion, a driver that has had only one losing season out of 8 seasons in F1, a driver who has finished higher in the WDC than 2 world champions on 3 occasions.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Laura23 »

Niki Lauda is now saying, after claiming it'd be all sorted before Spain, that Hamilton contract could be signed at the Monaco weekend. Yet another delay. Must be some really long short stuff to sort out...
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

pokerman wrote:....Also yet again making things fit to try and make some kind of argument, we factor in Webber beating Rosberg when he was a rookie, but apparently a few days ago you were writing that despite the Hulk losing to Rubens as a rookie this in fact made him so much stronger because he learnt so much from Rubens, apparently we must assume then that Rosberg learnt nothing from Webber, you play both sides of the argument it's just whatever suits at the time.
Hulkenberg showed he learnt SOMETHING from Rubens Barrichello by putting that Williams on pole and showing his authority there by putting a gap of more than 1000 miliseconds!!!! Then he fought like a legend on that very same race too.

By the way, you can not hide Rosberg&Kimi comparison by shadowing the argument by Hulkenberg, yes, i will show it AGAIN:
Need4Naiim wrote:Raikkonen could beat the below drivers who were younger than 40* at least one season;

David Coulthard (13)
Juan Pablo Montoya (7)
Felipe Massa (11)
Romain Grosjean (0)

Nico Rosberg beat the below drivers who were younger than 40;

Kazuki Nakajima (0)
Alexander Wurz (0)


* Damon Hill was a prime example of how 39 years of age disadvantaged him against a young Frentzen in 1999.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Prema »

Need4Naiim wrote:
Hulkenberg showed he learnt SOMETHING from Rubens Barrichello by putting that Williams on pole and showing his authority there by putting a gap of more than 1000 miliseconds!!!! Then he fought like a legend on that very same race too.
As the matter of fact, the gap appeared to be more than 1 billion (1 000 000 000) nanoseconds ! 8O

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

Prema wrote:
Need4Naiim wrote:
Hulkenberg showed he learnt SOMETHING from Rubens Barrichello by putting that Williams on pole and showing his authority there by putting a gap of more than 1000 miliseconds!!!! Then he fought like a legend on that very same race too.
As the matter of fact, the gap appeared to be more than 1 billion (1 000 000 000) nanoseconds ! 8O
If the smallest measured gap in F1 had been nanoseconds, then i would have shown that gap like you wrote.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Need4Naiim wrote:
pokerman wrote:....Also yet again making things fit to try and make some kind of argument, we factor in Webber beating Rosberg when he was a rookie, but apparently a few days ago you were writing that despite the Hulk losing to Rubens as a rookie this in fact made him so much stronger because he learnt so much from Rubens, apparently we must assume then that Rosberg learnt nothing from Webber, you play both sides of the argument it's just whatever suits at the time.
Hulkenberg showed he learnt SOMETHING from Rubens Barrichello by putting that Williams on pole and showing his authority there by putting a gap of more than 1000 miliseconds!!!! Then he fought like a legend on that very same race too.

By the way, you can not hide Rosberg&Kimi comparison by shadowing the argument by Hulkenberg, yes, i will show it AGAIN:
Need4Naiim wrote:Raikkonen could beat the below drivers who were younger than 40* at least one season;

David Coulthard (13)
Juan Pablo Montoya (7)
Felipe Massa (11)
Romain Grosjean (0)

Nico Rosberg beat the below drivers who were younger than 40;

Kazuki Nakajima (0)
Alexander Wurz (0)


* Damon Hill was a prime example of how 39 years of age disadvantaged him against a young Frentzen in 1999.
Was it the only thing of merit that the Hulk did?

Rosberg set fastest lap on his GP debut, that was when fastest laps actually counted for something.

You actually managed not to answer my post but go off in another tangent instead, I guess you had no valid answer?
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

pokerman wrote:Was it the only thing of merit that the Hulk did?

Rosberg set fastest lap on his GP debut, that was when fastest laps actually counted for something.

You actually managed not to answer my post but go off in another tangent instead, I guess you had no valid answer?
Rosberg never shone against Webber, but Hulkenberg showed flashes of brilliance in his debut year even with that Williams. The later teammate of Rubens went on to win a race too. It is not just Hulk that learnt some little tricks from the most experinced F1 driver ever. So, i am writing it again as Kimi is just in another league from Rosberg:
Need4Naiim wrote:Raikkonen could beat the below drivers who were younger than 40* at least one season;

David Coulthard (13)
Juan Pablo Montoya (7)
Felipe Massa (11)
Romain Grosjean (0)

Nico Rosberg beat the below drivers who were younger than 40;

Kazuki Nakajima (0)
Alexander Wurz (0)


* Damon Hill was a prime example of how 39 years of age disadvantaged him against a young Frentzen in 1999.
The only downside of Kimi is that he demands special designed cars to give best performance. He used this strength of him against Alonso&Massa&Hamilton in 2007 when getting his title. He couldn't perform at a level <let alone his own level> with a foreign chassis for his demands last year. With a suitable car for his style, he can beat Bottas, Grosjean, Button, Hamilton and rival Hulkenberg.

imho.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by sandman1347 »

People-I've been coming to this forum for several years and I never do this but let me give a word of advice. Do not engage in conversation with Need4Naiim. Just read his post history and you'll see that he has a clear agenda, no objectivity at all and will make nonsensical arguments to promote Hulkenberg/Raikkonen and especially to take shots at Hamilton. You're wasting your time and lending undue credibility to his posts by responding.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

sandman1347 wrote:People-I've been coming to this forum for several years and I never do this but let me give a word of advice. Do not engage in conversation with Need4Naiim. Just read his post history and you'll see that he has a clear agenda, no objectivity at all and will make nonsensical arguments to promote Hulkenberg/Raikkonen and especially to take shots at Hamilton. You're wasting your time and lending undue credibility to his posts by responding.
I know but it's hard to always give a free pass
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by bourbon19 »

pokerman wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
What is with the questions? Who knows? Will Hamilton be beating Rosberg at the midseason? Last season my answer was a emphatic yes until we actually arrived at mid-season and Nico was 30 points ahead. Racing is man + machine and the problem with all the speculation is that you cannot second guess either.

Not sure exactly what this has to do with Hamilton's contract. Vettel isn't going to Merc anytime soon.
You would still question Hamilton's ability to beat Rosberg?

The questions are in fact important to Hamilton's contract in ascertaining how important Hamilton is too Mercedes in a car that is no longer out and out dominant.
Straight up in perfectly equal cars with equal reliability issues and similar incidents? Hamilton wins. But as last season showed, in the real world, anything can happen.

Your other consideration is interesting and I was wrong to discount the contractual relevance. It might behoove Mercedes to think in those terms, but from the outside looking in, it seems that teams tend to lose focus in that regard when they are in a dominating stage. For example, Red Bull was sure they had it covered going forward this season, but now they are saying they miss Vettel's experience at times when it comes to development. Merc could find themselves musing similarly if they lose Hamilton. It is about this time that someone will shout 'drivers don't develop cars!' and I agree, but I mean it only to the extent that engineers and crew make use of driver contribution.

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by F1Oz »

shoot999 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Vettel, no doubt in my mind about it.
Rosberg
:thumbup:

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by F1Oz »

FringeUK - how can you say Vettel stayed too long at RBR - sorry if someone else said this (i'm jumping forward) but SV was winning WDC to 2013 and who knows who was going to produce the best engine in 2014 - and he was under contract - so this year was the absolute earliest he could have moved.

And in reality, NOBODY expected Ferrari to be this competitive - and SV has lucked into a good car much like he had a good car in the Torro Rosso in 2008 (better than the RBR that year) and moved to RBR just as it became a race winning car (even if Webber would have won in Japan 2008 without SV crashing into him IMO)

This is seb's opportunity to prove he's better than he showed last year - but unless Ferrari manage to seriously out engineer Merc - it may be that Ferrari will push Merc more than any car last year but the win in Malaysia will be like Dan last year - just managing to take advantage of Merc stuffing up strategy or having reliability problems

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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

F1Oz wrote:..And in reality, NOBODY expected Ferrari to be this competitive - and SV has lucked into a good car much like he had a good car in the Torro Rosso in 2008 (better than the RBR that year) and moved to RBR just as it became a race winning car (even if Webber would have won in Japan 2008 without SV crashing into him IMO)
I expected Ferrari to be this competitive <and better than RedBull team first time after 2008> before the season start, during Jerez testing, and claimed that Vettel's RBR knowledge is going to be invaluable for Ferrari team. You can read from my posting history.


But, as usual, my predictions and opinions were not seen as "valuable enough".


Talking of Vettel; no driver can get 4 championships only through luck. Schumacher was more than a lucky driver in the summer of 2001. Prost was a lot more than a lucky driver in autumn of 1993.
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shoot999
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by shoot999 »

Need4Naiim wrote:
F1Oz wrote:..And in reality, NOBODY expected Ferrari to be this competitive - and SV has lucked into a good car much like he had a good car in the Torro Rosso in 2008 (better than the RBR that year) and moved to RBR just as it became a race winning car (even if Webber would have won in Japan 2008 without SV crashing into him IMO)
I expected Ferrari to be this competitive <and better than RedBull team first time after 2008> before the season start, during Jerez testing, and claimed that Vettel's RBR knowledge is going to be invaluable for Ferrari team. You can read from my posting history.


But, as usual, my predictions and opinions were not seen as "valuable enough".


Talking of Vettel; no driver can get 4 championships only through luck. Schumacher was more than a lucky driver in the summer of 2001. Prost was a lot more than a lucky driver in autumn of 1993.
Very true. You did say Ferrari would be this competitive during the Jerez test. Along with most of the forum, the press, and most of the other teams when they saw how Ferrari were performing at the test. So congratulations on being with the vast majority.

But in the interests of balance you also said before the test on the 'Ferrari will be very strong in 2015' thread that the McLaren would be 'fast, if not the fastest.' And made no prediction on the Ferrari performance at all.

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Need4Naiim
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Need4Naiim »

shoot999 wrote: ...But in the interests of balance you also said before the test on the 'Ferrari will be very strong in 2015' thread that the McLaren would be 'fast, if not the fastest.' And made no prediction on the Ferrari performance at all.
If you point this post of mine, i still hold that opinion. Posted on 17th December of 2014;
Need4Naiim wrote:Good news for Jenson then. :nod:

Mclaren will be faster next year if not THE fastest.


Do not forget that McLaren team completed 2014 season without a victory and only 2 podium positions. I STILL think that McLaren of 2015 will have a better record than that.
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mds
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by mds »

F1Oz wrote: And in reality, NOBODY expected Ferrari to be this competitive - and SV has lucked into a good car much like he had a good car in the Torro Rosso in 2008 (better than the RBR that year) and moved to RBR just as it became a race winning car (even if Webber would have won in Japan 2008 without SV crashing into him IMO)
The Toro (1 'R') Rosso was not a good car in 2008. It was outspokenly midfield. It was not decidedly better than the RBR - that's very much up for debate. Both RBR drivers scored more points than the other STR car. It's not impossible that the STR was a better car, but it's not exactly impossible the difference was Vettel being better than Coulthard and Webber either.

I hate this term "lucking into", and doing as if anything a driver accomplishes is just due to having good luck. I can very much say that STR could only win with Vettel and RBR started winning when Vettel arrived.
it may be that Ferrari will push Merc more than any car last year but the win in Malaysia will be like Dan last year - just managing to take advantage of Merc stuffing up strategy or having reliability problems
The Malaysia win was fully on merit. It did not take reliability problems and it was not subject to Merc's strategy
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Ok genuine question,

Stick Hamilton in the Ferrari and Vettel in the Merc this year and who would be leading the WDC?
Another question, would Vettel be beating Rosberg?
What is with the questions? Who knows? Will Hamilton be beating Rosberg at the midseason? Last season my answer was a emphatic yes until we actually arrived at mid-season and Nico was 30 points ahead. Racing is man + machine and the problem with all the speculation is that you cannot second guess either.

Not sure exactly what this has to do with Hamilton's contract. Vettel isn't going to Merc anytime soon.
You would still question Hamilton's ability to beat Rosberg?

The questions are in fact important to Hamilton's contract in ascertaining how important Hamilton is too Mercedes in a car that is no longer out and out dominant.
Straight up in perfectly equal cars with equal reliability issues and similar incidents? Hamilton wins. But as last season showed, in the real world, anything can happen.

Your other consideration is interesting and I was wrong to discount the contractual relevance. It might behoove Mercedes to think in those terms, but from the outside looking in, it seems that teams tend to lose focus in that regard when they are in a dominating stage. For example, Red Bull was sure they had it covered going forward this season, but now they are saying they miss Vettel's experience at times when it comes to development. Merc could find themselves musing similarly if they lose Hamilton. It is about this time that someone will shout 'drivers don't develop cars!' and I agree, but I mean it only to the extent that engineers and crew make use of driver contribution.
That's an argument that goes round and round were some will argue both sides of the coin when it suits
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pokerman
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

Need4Naiim wrote:
F1Oz wrote:..And in reality, NOBODY expected Ferrari to be this competitive - and SV has lucked into a good car much like he had a good car in the Torro Rosso in 2008 (better than the RBR that year) and moved to RBR just as it became a race winning car (even if Webber would have won in Japan 2008 without SV crashing into him IMO)
I expected Ferrari to be this competitive <and better than RedBull team first time after 2008> before the season start, during Jerez testing, and claimed that Vettel's RBR knowledge is going to be invaluable for Ferrari team. You can read from my posting history.


But, as usual, my predictions and opinions were not seen as "valuable enough".


Talking of Vettel; no driver can get 4 championships only through luck. Schumacher was more than a lucky driver in the summer of 2001. Prost was a lot more than a lucky driver in autumn of 1993.
But we perhaps can still call 3 Championships as being lucky? ;)
Last edited by pokerman on Fri May 08, 2015 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pokerman
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by pokerman »

shoot999 wrote:
Need4Naiim wrote:
F1Oz wrote:..And in reality, NOBODY expected Ferrari to be this competitive - and SV has lucked into a good car much like he had a good car in the Torro Rosso in 2008 (better than the RBR that year) and moved to RBR just as it became a race winning car (even if Webber would have won in Japan 2008 without SV crashing into him IMO)
I expected Ferrari to be this competitive <and better than RedBull team first time after 2008> before the season start, during Jerez testing, and claimed that Vettel's RBR knowledge is going to be invaluable for Ferrari team. You can read from my posting history.


But, as usual, my predictions and opinions were not seen as "valuable enough".


Talking of Vettel; no driver can get 4 championships only through luck. Schumacher was more than a lucky driver in the summer of 2001. Prost was a lot more than a lucky driver in autumn of 1993.
Very true. You did say Ferrari would be this competitive during the Jerez test. Along with most of the forum, the press, and most of the other teams when they saw how Ferrari were performing at the test. So congratulations on being with the vast majority.

But in the interests of balance you also said before the test on the 'Ferrari will be very strong in 2015' thread that the McLaren would be 'fast, if not the fastest.' And made no prediction on the Ferrari performance at all.
Pure gold :)
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by Laura23 »

Given Ferrari look further away than ever this year in Barcelona I'd expect the Hamilton/Merc deal to be done ASAP. Why he'd give up that Merc for anything else at the moment I don't know.
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Re: Wolff talks about Alonso, and Hamilton's contract.

Post by F1Tyrant »

Laura23 wrote:Why he'd give up that Merc for anything else at the moment I don't know.
It would be mad to leave Mercedes but I imagine he's stalling over a get-out clause in the contract to let him escape if Mercedes advantage goes down the toilet at some point in the next 3 years.

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