Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best driver"

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Lesky
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Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best driver"

Post by Lesky »

(GMM) Fernando Alonso does not believe reigning quadruple world champion Sebastian Vettel is the best driver in Formula One.

Some have been surprised this year as Vettel, despite his domination of the sport for years, has struggled to keep up with his new Red Bull teammate Daniel Ricciardo.

But Spaniard Alonso on Wednesday said it has been no surprise to him.

"In my opinion," he is quoted by Italy's La Stampa, "Lewis Hamilton is the best driver.

"I don't know what problems Vettel is having this year, but I have not changed my mind about him -- he is not the best.

"It is others who have to change their opinion," Alonso added.


http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alons ... st-driver/
Last edited by Lesky on Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by F1yer »

Butthurt too strong ..

One driver denied him 1 WDC
Another denied him 3 at least LOL

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Zoue »

Don't see the big deal. He's not exactly saying anything revelatory

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pokerman »

F1yer wrote:Butthurt too strong ..

One driver denied him 1 WDC
Another denied him 3 at least LOL

Well you could have said that last year
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Covalent »

Starting to sound like a broken record.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Robot »

More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by F1yer »

Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pokerman »

F1yer wrote:
Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

Well i'm a Hamilton fan and happy to take any accolades that come his way, as for Alonso i think its very much taken by many that he's the best and it seems to be mainly Vettel or Kimi fans that have ever argued otherwise
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pubpokerplayer »

Well he stating what many think without mentioning himself. Think there is little doubt Alonso is the best driver on the grid and that Vettel isn't the main man.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Kolby »

inb4 someone says Alonso is playing mind games

Btw, doesn't he say this thing all the time? Saying he isn't the best doesn't necessary mean he doesn't acknowledge his rival's skills and ability
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by F1yer »

pokerman wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

Well i'm a Hamilton fan and happy to take any accolades that come his way, as for Alonso i think its very much taken by many that he's the best and it seems to be mainly Vettel or Kimi fans that have ever argued otherwise


Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


ANyway , what I mean is how can Lewis be the best when he finally gets the super fast car and is losing to his average teammate (one who lost to Webber).

And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by nixxxon »

He says exactly the same as he did more than two years ago in another interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEzqCcF2mps

And he also said prophetically that if Vettel did the same with a non-dominant car he would eat his words, and Vettel hasnt done it.
Last edited by nixxxon on Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Kolby »

F1yer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

Well i'm a Hamilton fan and happy to take any accolades that come his way, as for Alonso i think its very much taken by many that he's the best and it seems to be mainly Vettel or Kimi fans that have ever argued otherwise


Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


ANyway , what I mean is how can Lewis be the best when he finally gets the super fast car and is losing to his average teammate (one who lost to Webber).

And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...

I don't think you can equate a rookie with an experience driver at that time lol.

Well I think he beat a certain 7x world champion once, but I'm not sure.

Over the hill kimi? His a WDC and his results last year was good.
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Lesky »

A few weeks back Massa was his fastest teammate, now its Hamilton, make up your mind Alonso? :-)

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by angrypirate »

nixxxon wrote:He says exactly the same as he did more than two years ago in another interview.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEzqCcF2mps

And he also said prophetically that if Vettel did the same with a non-dominant car he would eat his words, and Vettel hasnt done it.

:thumbup:

I dont see any top level pundits disagreeing with Alonso

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by RunningMan »

Covalent wrote:Starting to sound like a broken record.


You do know how these interview things work?
Alonso gets asked a question and his job is to answer it. Not his fault if he keeps getting asked the same questions. His answer hasn't changed, so people should stop asking (or acting surprised)
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Zoue »

Lesky wrote:A few weeks back Massa was his fastest teammate, now its Hamilton, make up your mind Alonso? :-)

Best and fastest are not the same

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by RunningMan »

F1yer wrote:
Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


Most fans here on this forum belong to Alonso or Lewis? Have you seen the Kimi thread? Even the Lewis thread is approaching double the Alonso thread.

F1yer wrote:And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...


Post accident Massa is the same as pre accident Massa. There is little evidence to suggest otherwise. Massa has always been a driver who was good at the front, but not so good in the pack.

An over the hill Kimi? Okay. Last year he was putting on impressive performances and races, and less than 12 months on he's over the hill? I don't believe it.
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by James14 »

You could argue, like Vettel, Hamilton has a completely dominant car as well. So if Mercedes dominate for the next four years and Hamilton wins four in a row will Alonso feel the same then?
Alonso is entitled to and has a far more valid opinion than all of us. But it is just an opinion (from a friend of Webbers-who I liked very much too). If Vettel never bounces back he will be proven correct. But I suspect he will and is entitled more than most to have an iffy season.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by FringeUK »

James14 wrote:You could argue, like Vettel, Hamilton has a completely dominant car as well. So if Mercedes dominate for the next four years and Hamilton wins four in a row will Alonso feel the same then?
Alonso is entitled to and has a far more valid opinion than all of us. But it is just an opinion (from a friend of Webbers-who I liked very much too). If Vettel never bounces back he will be proven correct. But I suspect he will and is entitled more than most to have an iffy season.


good point. although the primary difference is that Vettel was hardly seriously challenged (and certainly not any sustained challenge) by his teammate (for whatever reasons) whereas Ham and Ros are very close - and consistently so. Even then, I reckon a lot of folk would prefer Ham to Ros in a straight 'bet your house' situation, though it might be very close if it were a poll! I certainly would in the situation of a random 'new' car with Ros or Ham being given a few laps each (obviously, at Merc the closeness is perhaps even closer as Ros has been there quite a while now and knows the team?). Anyways, the overall point being that close teammates are very likely to be separated by other 'incidents' rather than just straight race results/points because the margins are so tight that a small blip (i.e. dnf, etc) can and will cause an apparent massive difference as we all see.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1yer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

Well i'm a Hamilton fan and happy to take any accolades that come his way, as for Alonso i think its very much taken by many that he's the best and it seems to be mainly Vettel or Kimi fans that have ever argued otherwise


Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


ANyway , what I mean is how can Lewis be the best when he finally gets the super fast car and is losing to his average teammate (one who lost to Webber).

And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...


Fissichella was very highly before Alonso
Massa was very highly rated before ALonso
Kimi was very highly rated before Alonso

Do you see a trend?

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by w1Y! »

Alonso has races alongside lewis at mclaren and is probably the only driver that has challenged alonso in the same car.

Seb is a top driver but can't argue that questions still need answering

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by j man »

mikeyg123 wrote:
F1yer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

Well i'm a Hamilton fan and happy to take any accolades that come his way, as for Alonso i think its very much taken by many that he's the best and it seems to be mainly Vettel or Kimi fans that have ever argued otherwise


Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


ANyway , what I mean is how can Lewis be the best when he finally gets the super fast car and is losing to his average teammate (one who lost to Webber).

And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...


Fissichella was very highly before Alonso
Massa was very highly rated before ALonso
Kimi was very highly rated before Alonso

Do you see a trend?

:thumbup:

Also Grosjean was much more highly rated after Alonso

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

This thread makes me feel like I have used a time machine and gone back to every other time that Alonso has said this.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by slide »

thought i'd add lewis and Fernando are known by all the team managers as the best and tru out the paddock , altho if they not your favourites , I can see why you would argue , but it is plain to see, but you can argue all night if you have nothing else to do

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by nixxxon »

mikeyg123 wrote:Fissichella was very highly before Alonso
Massa was very highly rated before ALonso
Kimi was very highly rated before Alonso

Do you see a trend?

Fisichella IIRC beat all his team mates in his career (Massa included) except Alonso.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Flash2k11 »

nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Fissichella was very highly before Alonso
Massa was very highly rated before ALonso
Kimi was very highly rated before Alonso

Do you see a trend?

Fisichella IIRC beat all his team mates in his career (Massa included) except Alonso.


Which says a lot about Alonso.
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by oz_karter »

I disagree with Fernando.

At the risk of being stoned to death by his many fans, I'm just going to come out with my opinion:

Lewis Hamilton is overrated.

I think Lewis had a brilliant rookie season but apart from some raw talent, I don't think he has the attributes to be in the same league as Alonso or Vettel.

2008 was a season where the McLaren was the dominant car, Lewis scraped through for the win but it was an inconsistent season for all the contenders.

Since then, he hasn't blown away his team mates, including Button who no one rates as particularly fast.
I
Hamilton is easily rattled and this season is a clear demonstration of his lack of discipline. He hasn't blown Rosberg away (by a long shot) and Rosberg isn't ever named in that elite group of drivers. Rosberg was beaten soundly by Webber...

I think Lewis Hamilton has some talent, but I cannot agree with him being called the "best driver".

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by schumilegend »

oz_karter wrote:I disagree with Fernando.

At the risk of being stoned to death by his many fans, I'm just going to come out with my opinion:

Lewis Hamilton is overrated.

I think Lewis had a brilliant rookie season but apart from some raw talent, I don't think he has the attributes to be in the same league as Alonso or Vettel.

2008 was a season where the McLaren was the dominant car, Lewis scraped through for the win but it was an inconsistent season for all the contenders.

Since then, he hasn't blown away his team mates, including Button who no one rates as particularly fast.
I
Hamilton is easily rattled and this season is a clear demonstration of his lack of discipline. He hasn't blown Rosberg away (by a long shot) and Rosberg isn't ever named in that elite group of drivers. Rosberg was beaten soundly by Webber...

I think Lewis Hamilton has some talent, but I cannot agree with him being called the "best driver".


Agreed..Not for a second does Alonso think anyone is better than him...Besides saying that outright and coming across as being arrogant, downplaying Seb(the only driver more successful than Alonso in the current grid) is the next best thing he can do..Although I must admit after Vettel's performance this year so far its making Alonso's case stronger..

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Exediron »

So let me get this straight... after the way this year has gone, there are still people who seriously think Vettel is the best driver? Besides, Alonso has always said that from the start; Lewis did too (remember his comment about Vettel missing apexes left and right during his pole laps?), and Alonso usually wins the paddock votes of who is best.

Frankly, 2014 has done more to strengthen Alonso's own claim to being the best than any prior year since Schumacher left; out of the 'top 4' you always used to hear about, one of them is being beaten by his newly promoted teammate, another is being matched by a driver previously not considered elite and the third is being demolished by Alonso himself. And this is coming from an avowed Raikkonen fan, painfully enough.
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pokerman »

F1yer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Robot wrote:More or less what everyone think in the paddock, Vettel is not the best, Hamilton or Alonso are.


Vettel may not be teh best.

But Alosno or HAmilton being the best isnt a foregone conclusion either. Its subjective.

Well i'm a Hamilton fan and happy to take any accolades that come his way, as for Alonso i think its very much taken by many that he's the best and it seems to be mainly Vettel or Kimi fans that have ever argued otherwise


Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


ANyway , what I mean is how can Lewis be the best when he finally gets the super fast car and is losing to his average teammate (one who lost to Webber).

And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...

Well i guess Hamilton is not as skilled as Rosberg in slicing opponents tyres ;)
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pokerman »

RunningMan wrote:
F1yer wrote:
Who else remains?
BTW - most fans (at least here) belong to Alonso or Lewis.


Most fans here on this forum belong to Alonso or Lewis? Have you seen the Kimi thread? Even the Lewis thread is approaching double the Alonso thread.

F1yer wrote:And who has Alonso beaten himself really? post accident Massa? over the hill Kimi ? What else? His rep is entirely built upon the Ferrari not being good but know really knows whats going on...


Post accident Massa is the same as pre accident Massa. There is little evidence to suggest otherwise. Massa has always been a driver who was good at the front, but not so good in the pack.

An over the hill Kimi? Okay. Last year he was putting on impressive performances and races, and less than 12 months on he's over the hill? I don't believe it.

Yep if it takes less than a season for Kimi to go over the hill maybe Vettel has met his hill earlier than most? ;)
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pokerman »

James14 wrote:You could argue, like Vettel, Hamilton has a completely dominant car as well. So if Mercedes dominate for the next four years and Hamilton wins four in a row will Alonso feel the same then?
Alonso is entitled to and has a far more valid opinion than all of us. But it is just an opinion (from a friend of Webbers-who I liked very much too). If Vettel never bounces back he will be proven correct. But I suspect he will and is entitled more than most to have an iffy season.

Your logic seems a bit flawed he's asking for Vettel to prove himself when he hasn't got a dominant car
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pokerman »

oz_karter wrote:I disagree with Fernando.

At the risk of being stoned to death by his many fans, I'm just going to come out with my opinion:

Lewis Hamilton is overrated.

I think Lewis had a brilliant rookie season but apart from some raw talent, I don't think he has the attributes to be in the same league as Alonso or Vettel.

2008 was a season where the McLaren was the dominant car, Lewis scraped through for the win but it was an inconsistent season for all the contenders.

Since then, he hasn't blown away his team mates, including Button who no one rates as particularly fast.
I
Hamilton is easily rattled and this season is a clear demonstration of his lack of discipline. He hasn't blown Rosberg away (by a long shot) and Rosberg isn't ever named in that elite group of drivers. Rosberg was beaten soundly by Webber...

I think Lewis Hamilton has some talent, but I cannot agree with him being called the "best driver".

2008, most wins Ferrari, most poles Ferrari, most fastest laps Ferrari
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by pubpokerplayer »

Why do people think the 2008 McLaren was a dominant car?

13 fastest laps to McLarens 3

Heikki finished 7th in the championship. Doesn't sound that much like a dominant car.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by James14 »

pokerman wrote:
James14 wrote:You could argue, like Vettel, Hamilton has a completely dominant car as well. So if Mercedes dominate for the next four years and Hamilton wins four in a row will Alonso feel the same then?
Alonso is entitled to and has a far more valid opinion than all of us. But it is just an opinion (from a friend of Webbers-who I liked very much too). If Vettel never bounces back he will be proven correct. But I suspect he will and is entitled more than most to have an iffy season.

Your logic seems a bit flawed he's asking for Vettel to prove himself when he hasn't got a dominant car


I agree that is Alonso's argument. Let Vettel prove himself in a car that is not dominant. Fair point.
My point is has Hamilton done that much in a non dominant car?

Personally I think this is a round about (or clever and subtle) way of proving that I AM THE BEST DRIVER. Because most pundits, fans and myself will agree that he has consistently dragged a non dominant Ferrari in to point scoring finishes.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by lbennie »

I think everytime this story comes out alonso says he was misquoted, so I don't believe this for a second.

If it's true it has to be mind games. I don't think for one second alonso thinks hamilton is the best on the grid. Like most drivers, he would see himself as the best. so there must be an agenda here. Im sure sour grapes have a little to do with it.

Hamilton is not consistent enough to be seen as king imo. He also has a much more dominant car than vettel ever did and he is not getting anywhere near the level of performance Seb was hitting. This against a team mate who was beaten quite comfortably by webber.

This years WDC is much more thanks to the car than any of the last 4. And even then it is looking like Hamilton might not win it. And it's not like he has one of the greats across the garage from him.

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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by specdecible »

If the journalists keep asking him the same questions they should expect the same answers, it's not like Alonso is walking up to everyone in the paddock saying "Vettel is not the best, that guy over there is" whilst pointing at a mirror.
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by Exediron »

lbennie wrote:Hamilton is not consistent enough to be seen as king imo. He also has a much more dominant car than vettel ever did and he is not getting anywhere near the level of performance Seb was hitting. This against a team mate who was beaten quite comfortably by webber.

In his debut year, when it was Webber's 5th full year? Also - bearing in mind that was the year before I started following F1 - but just looking at the numbers it doesn't really look like Webber was that far ahead of Rosberg. 7 points against 4, and both of them retired so much it's hard to make out much else on the basis of the numbers alone. After that season he went on to never be beaten by a teammate again until he partnered Lewis last year, so I'd cut him some slack.

James14 wrote:My point is has Hamilton done that much in a non dominant car?

He's done everything he's done in a non-dominant car, up until this year. That word gets thrown around way too much here; the Mercedes of this year is dominant, because it's clearly the best at all times. A car that is equal best or only best sometimes is not dominant, and unless it's clearly the best car it's not dominant. The McLaren of 2007 wasn't dominant, unless Raikkonen and Massa were actually much better drivers than Lewis and Alonso, and the McLaren of 2008 wasn't either or Lewis should have had it tied up well before the last race and his teammate would have been a bit higher than seventh. It's obvious that the later McLarens weren't dominant either, and the Mercedes of 2013 certainly wasn't.

Out of this decade I think the only cars with any claim to being truly dominant were the Mass Damper Renault of early 2006, the Brawn BGP 001 at the start of 2009, the RB7 for pretty much its entire run and the RB9 at the end of 2013. And of course the Mercedes W05 Hybrid, so far at least.
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lbennie
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Re: Alonso: "Vettel not the best, Hamilton is the best drive

Post by lbennie »

Exediron wrote:
lbennie wrote:Hamilton is not consistent enough to be seen as king imo. He also has a much more dominant car than vettel ever did and he is not getting anywhere near the level of performance Seb was hitting. This against a team mate who was beaten quite comfortably by webber.

In his debut year, when it was Webber's 5th full year? Also - bearing in mind that was the year before I started following F1 - but just looking at the numbers it doesn't really look like Webber was that far ahead of Rosberg. 7 points against 4, and both of them retired so much it's hard to make out much else on the basis of the numbers alone. After that season he went on to never be beaten by a teammate again until he partnered Lewis last year, so I'd cut him some slack.


It is still a fact, you can spin it however you want.
I take you think Hamilton is miles better than alonso then, considering he matched him as a rookie during alonso's 7th full year?

Even if you see rosberg as a more competitive team mate than webber, Lewis should, reliability allowing, be on the front row of the grid & finishing at least second every race, which he is not doing.
Seb was sticking that thing on pole with monstrous monotony with much less of a performance margin over the rest of the field when compared to the mercedes.
Last edited by lbennie on Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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