Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Forum rules
Please read the forum rules

Top speed in Monza 2014?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:50 pm

< 350 Km/h
5
9%
355 Km/h
5
9%
360 Km/h
9
17%
365 Km/h
13
25%
370 Km/h
8
15%
375 Km/h
5
9%
380 Km/h
4
8%
385 Km/h
2
4%
390 Km/h
0
No votes
> 390 Km/h
2
4%
 
Total votes: 53

User avatar
shift
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Imola
Contact:

Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by shift »

Image
AND NOW?


Just found this curious image.
Not a very recent one, but should still be representative going into next weekend's race in Monza.
One of the most anticipated events this year, thanks to the enormous torque generated by the new Hybrid Engines and the consequent top speed.

347 km/h by Bottas in Hockenheim, 344 km/h last week in Spa by Nico Hulkenberg, this year's car are straightline beasts.

And now we arrive in Monza, "the temple of speed", with extremely low (well, even lower than the 2014 standards) downforce set-up and huge PU recovery thanks to the violent braking points and accelerations.

What kind of top speed can we imagine next week down the Rettifilo? Will Montoya's 2005 official speed record collapse under the power of the new Hybrid V6's?

Image

Schumacher forever#1
Posts: 2980
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:29 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

I'd say between 360-365. Don't really know.
"Always believe you will become the best, but never believe you have done so"

User avatar
Laura23
Posts: 8767
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Location: London

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Laura23 »

The Mercs might manage 370.
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Get well soon Schumi.

No one call anyone a moo-pickle...

User avatar
Alienturnedhuman
Posts: 3955
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

According to the official data on the F1.com website, it seems that the cars are 40km/h faster in Monza compared to Spa in both 2005 and 2013 - so that would mean they should achieve about 385km/h at Monza this year.

User avatar
Laura23
Posts: 8767
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Location: London

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Laura23 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:According to the official data on the F1.com website, it seems that the cars are 40km/h faster in Monza compared to Spa in both 2005 and 2013 - so that would mean they should achieve about 385km/h at Monza this year.

All down to the gear ratios. Some cars will max out long before they can reach their genuine top speed because they'll run out of gearing.
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Get well soon Schumi.

No one call anyone a moo-pickle...

User avatar
Alienturnedhuman
Posts: 3955
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Laura23 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:According to the official data on the F1.com website, it seems that the cars are 40km/h faster in Monza compared to Spa in both 2005 and 2013 - so that would mean they should achieve about 385km/h at Monza this year.

All down to the gear ratios. Some cars will max out long before they can reach their genuine top speed because they'll run out of gearing.

Obviously. Does anyone have any onboard footage to see the rpm they were doing to achieve 344km/h? If it was 13,400rpm or lower then they have the gearing to reach 385km/h.

funkymonkey
Posts: 1892
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by funkymonkey »

Does anyone have gears long enough to go much higher? I am predicting 350 oor there about.

wire2004
Posts: 1590
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by wire2004 »

I know we are early in the season when I noticed it. But merc were still in 7th gear down the Chinese straight at 340 klicks
So 8th gear. Do you think merc want 400???
I really wanna see 400

wire2004
Posts: 1590
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by wire2004 »

Actually a different question to ask.
Do you think we'll see the full 15,000rpm from the engine
I know we may lose power output from the turbo after 12,500 I think was quoted. But if merc can change where the turbo comes in say 8,500rpm as apposed to 5,000 so the turbo is helping with power output further along the rev range at 13,800 - 14,300,

Can you move where the turbo range kicks in or so you see that as set in the position it is in the power band at the start of the season.

User avatar
Alienturnedhuman
Posts: 3955
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

wire2004 wrote:Actually a different question to ask.
Do you think we'll see the full 15,000rpm from the engine
I know we may lose power output from the turbo after 12,500 I think was quoted. But if merc can change where the turbo comes in say 8,500rpm as apposed to 5,000 so the turbo is helping with power output further along the rev range at 13,800 - 14,300,

Can you move where the turbo range kicks in or so you see that as set in the position it is in the power band at the start of the season.

These turbos don't work like the turbos people are used to, the issue of 'the speed the turbo kicks in at' is largely irrelevant. The turbo is not only powered by the exhaust gas pressure but also a powerful MGU, which means the ECU can have it spool up at 0rpm if it needs to.

User avatar
nixxxon
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by nixxxon »

The mercedes gearing is quite long.
Just saw the Rosberg pass on Alonso at the long China straight, with DRS.... Rosberg put the 8th gear just at the end before breaking and with low RPM's, that means they should reach very high speeds at Monza.
Last edited by nixxxon on Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ja'a
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Ja'a »

I hope they reach 400 km/h. :twisted:

User avatar
Lotus49
Posts: 5273
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Lotus49 »

Eenie Meenie Miny Massa- 383 km/h
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

User avatar
Covalent
Posts: 10173
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Covalent »

376

flyboy10
Posts: 5402
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by flyboy10 »

Can you put the speeds in mph?

User avatar
Alienturnedhuman
Posts: 3955
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

I think editing the poll will reset it, and given that the FIA give the speeds in km/h it makes sense of the poll to use those figures.

However, here they are converted to mph:

350 = 217.5
355 = 220.6
360 = 223.7
365 = 226.8
370 = 229.9
375 = 233.0
380 = 236.1
385 = 239.2
390 = 242.3


Incidentally, the fastest a car meeting the F1 regulations has ever gone is 410km/h (255mph) which was the BAR land speed record attempt on the Bonneville Salt Flats. And that didn't have a rear wing, just a fin.

oz_karter
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:29 am

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by oz_karter »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:According to the official data on the F1.com website, it seems that the cars are 40km/h faster in Monza compared to Spa in both 2005 and 2013 - so that would mean they should achieve about 385km/h at Monza this year.


Based on that, and the fact drag increases with the square of velocity, I would say they won't reach 385.

Although, the wings are likely to produce less drag so who knows.

I will guess 375km/h.

Pest44
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Pest44 »

I read somewhere earlier in the season (can't remember where) that unlike previous years where they bring low drag aero kits to monza that won't be the case this year. Because they've lost so much downforce that basically they've been running monza levels of downforce all year so will keep the aero kits they've had all year. So on that info I'll say around 360 kph.
Last edited by Pest44 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flyboy10
Posts: 5402
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by flyboy10 »

I'm going for 240mph so about 385.25km/h?

User avatar
Alienturnedhuman
Posts: 3955
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Pest44 wrote:I read somewhere earlier in the season (can't remember where) that unlike previous years where they bring low drag aero kits to monza that won't be the case this year. Because they've lost so much downforce that basically they've been running monza levels of downforce all year so will keep the aero kits they've had all year. So on that info I'll say around 360 kph.

Mercedes have been running their highest downforce package at every race. However, Red Bull ran a lower downforce package at Spa suggesting that at Monza the high downforce package Mercedes run would be too much.

Monza is an anomaly on the calendar, low drag is more important than downforce.

User avatar
froze
Posts: 2680
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:05 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by froze »

shift wrote:What kind of top speed can we imagine next week down the Rettifilo? Will Montoya's 2005 official speed record collapse under the power of the new Hybrid V6's?

But is it really an official speed record as it was set during a test day? If I remember correctly the highest speed recorded during a race weekend was Raikkonen's 370,1 kph in Monza 2005. If we are going to compare, then I think we need to compare race weekends only because they're not testing in Monza this year, and in tests they can run all kinds of weird setups and engine maps.
“I'm happy, but there's nothing to jump around about.”

Pest44
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Pest44 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Pest44 wrote:I read somewhere earlier in the season (can't remember where) that unlike previous years where they bring low drag aero kits to monza that won't be the case this year. Because they've lost so much downforce that basically they've been running monza levels of downforce all year so will keep the aero kits they've had all year. So on that info I'll say around 360 kph.

Mercedes have been running their highest downforce package at every race. However, Red Bull ran a lower downforce package at Spa suggesting that at Monza the high downforce package Mercedes run would be too much.

Monza is an anomaly on the calendar, low drag is more important than downforce.


Red bull ran such a low downforce package at spa because of there engine deficit to Mercedes. They will do the same at monza because they have no choice but merc don't have to run there lowest downforce package but they have a good engine. If I remember correctly red bull in 2011 were the slowest car down the straight but vettel still comfortable won because of the downforce he had through the corners and being able to get on the throttle very early at the exit of them. It's not all about top speed it's also how quickly you get to your top speed
Last edited by Pest44 on Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
f1madman
Posts: 1751
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:14 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by f1madman »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Incidentally, the fastest a car meeting the F1 regulations has ever gone is 410km/h (255mph) which was the BAR land speed record attempt on the Bonneville Salt Flats. And that didn't have a rear wing, just a fin.


If I recall correctly I don't think it would meet the regulations of back then, I seem to remember they modded it more than just removing the rear wing, andthat it'd actually be illegal if the ever raced it.
Pathfinder

User avatar
Juzzy82
Posts: 327
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:30 am

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Juzzy82 »

352 km/h

User avatar
Laura23
Posts: 8767
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:56 am
Location: London

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Laura23 »

f1madman wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Incidentally, the fastest a car meeting the F1 regulations has ever gone is 410km/h (255mph) which was the BAR land speed record attempt on the Bonneville Salt Flats. And that didn't have a rear wing, just a fin.


If I recall correctly I don't think it would meet the regulations of back then, I seem to remember they modded it more than just removing the rear wing, andthat it'd actually be illegal if the ever raced it.

As far as I remember they had to race legal except the rear fin. That was the criteria, the car had to be race legal apart from the rear fin which they needed for stability.
1994 1995 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Get well soon Schumi.

No one call anyone a moo-pickle...

User avatar
Lt. Drebin
Posts: 4796
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Lt. Drebin »

362,3 km/h
The end is near

User avatar
shift
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Imola
Contact:

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by shift »

Image

Just found this!
Still in Km/h, but it's interesting indeed

User avatar
nixxxon
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by nixxxon »

shift wrote:Image

Just found this!
Still in Km/h, but it's interesting indeed

very interesting. I think this year the Mercs at leats will clearly be faster than last year.
I'm predicting around 360 with DRS.


Also... km/h is the way to go.

User avatar
slide
Posts: 1426
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by slide »

I voted 370

User avatar
Covalent
Posts: 10173
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Covalent »

BTW: I find it pretty unlikely that any of the poll's options are correct ;)

User avatar
dizlexik
Posts: 7796
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by dizlexik »

I voted 360.
eeee

User avatar
shift
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Imola
Contact:

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by shift »

Lewis predicts 360-370 Km/h after his simulator work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JabT8AOvjLQ

angrypirate
Posts: 704
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:24 am

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by angrypirate »

On the basis that the Mercs have barely gotten into 8th gear, you have to fancy them for something special, although I dont think they will be beating any records. What could be interested is to see if Merc will play their joker after Monza and put in silghtly closer ratioed gears for the remaining races.

wire2004
Posts: 1590
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:54 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by wire2004 »

It depends if merc have already changed their ratios already.
Don't forget they only have 1 change this year and next year. They are locked in at fp1 in Melbourne for the year next year

lord byron
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by lord byron »

I'd say 369
Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. Luke 17 22

Deep_blue
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by Deep_blue »

362

User avatar
shift
Posts: 360
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Imola
Contact:

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by shift »

FP1's TOP SPEEDS
Image

User avatar
nixxxon
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by nixxxon »

shift wrote:FP1's TOP SPEEDS
Image

cant see the image

User avatar
dizlexik
Posts: 7796
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by dizlexik »

nixxxon wrote:
shift wrote:FP1's TOP SPEEDS
Image

cant see the image

I can see it. 348.2 is the top speed.
eeee

User avatar
nixxxon
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Monza - Guess the Top Speed!

Post by nixxxon »

dizlexik wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
shift wrote:FP1's TOP SPEEDS
Image

cant see the image

I can see it. 348.2 is the top speed.

Which car?
Disappointing.

Post Reply