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Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:26 am
by Pest44
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/ ... -accident/

Shocking news!

Thoughts go to the family and friends of the driver who was killed.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:35 am
by Mr-E
I was just going to post this.. Really shocking!
I don't really know what happened but it sure looks like Stewart wanted to make a point and he hit him..
Edit: Warning: The video is graphic!

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:57 am
by James14
Just seen that. It is shocking.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:58 am
by minchy
That's just mental! (sorry, can't think of a better word to describe it)

My thoughts go out Kevin Ward Jr's family, but this in my eyes shows us the stupidity of what is often encouraged in some American motorsports. He was taken out of the race in a racing incident and on a corner where car are drifting round a dirt track, he saw fit to climb out of his car and walk along a live race track. That to me is pure stupidity. Whether Stewart intended to hit him or not is another matter entirely, but Ward was no way without blame in this incident.

We've seen article before with NASCAR owners saying it is good for the show for drivers to settle their disputes with punches track side, but this just shows what can happen when drivers aren't able to keep their emotions in check in a dangerous situation.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:10 am
by Rekonizakilla
Oh no. I feel for all involved. Stewart must be devastated too.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:15 am
by Fiki
That is how bad stupidity can get. Even allowing for adrenalin levels, which these people are supposed to be capable of living with.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:31 am
by InBetween
That is simply unbelievable. The sad part about it is that the management of some of these sporting events seem to encourage this kind of attitude as it's "good" for the show (NASCAR).

I won't get into what went through Stewart's head and if he intended to give Ward a scare or not (I simply won't believe he intentionally hit him) but Ward is the one to blame here for this tragic accident. You can not walk into a live race track pursuing some personal vendetta, it's just mind numbing stupid.

Sadly it cost him his life.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:37 am
by Pedrosa_4_Ever
minchy wrote:That's just mental! (sorry, can't think of a better word to describe it)

My thoughts go out Kevin Ward Jr's family, but this in my eyes shows us the stupidity of what is often encouraged in some American motorsports. He was taken out of the race in a racing incident and on a corner where car are drifting round a dirt track, he saw fit to climb out of his car and walk along a live race track. That to me is pure stupidity. Whether Stewart intended to hit him or not is another matter entirely, but Ward was no way without blame in this incident.

We've seen article before with NASCAR owners saying it is good for the show for drivers to settle their disputes with punches track side, but this just shows what can happen when drivers aren't able to keep their emotions in check in a dangerous situation.

I'm glad I'm not the only person to think like this. It seems like this is a problem symptomatic to these "yee-haw" kinda series, it was only a matter of time before something tragic like this happened.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:49 am
by Laura23
Ward was stupid for walking on the track for sure, remember when Webber got punished in Singapore a couple of years ago for doing similar on the slowing down lap? But if Stewart did retaliate deliberately and just booted the car into Ward then that is unforgivable. Stewart has always had a tempter and sadly he's always been encouraged to show that temper in the name of entertainment. Sadly it looks like that temper has cost someone their life.

Very sad.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:57 am
by mcdo
Logged in just to say HOLY FOOK!!!

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:12 am
by TheDamus
Wow. Always been a fan of Stewart so I hope that it wasn't intentional. Even if it wasn't though why on earth didn't he do more to avoid him? I'll fully agree that ward was rather stupid for attempting that in the first place. As said previously though, this kind of thing is rather encouraged in many forms of American motor sports.

RIP Kevin

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:16 am
by oz_karter
My thinking is that Stewart didn't see Ward running across the track because his view was obscured by the car in front. At least I hope so. It's unthinkable that anyone would deliberately do that.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:17 am
by Pedrosa_4_Ever
Looked at the video. The kid is f**king stupid to be wandering the track just to make some petty signals at TS but it also looks like Stewart wanted to gun the engine and spray him with mud or whatever as he drove by and got it horribly wrong. I'm pretty sure (in my none expert opinion) that if this wasn't a big shot celeb, it would be a nailed on involuntary manslaughter charge.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:22 am
by UnlikeUday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdNPj-pNUh0

Could be either drivers fault, but still not worth the death. RIP

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:27 am
by minchy
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:Looked at the video. The kid is f**king stupid to be wandering the track just to make some petty signals at TS but it also looks like Stewart wanted to gun the engine and spray him with mud or whatever as he drove by and got it horribly wrong. I'm pretty sure (in my none expert opinion) that if this wasn't a big shot celeb, it would be a nailed on involuntary manslaughter charge.

I really can't tell from the quality of the spectators video what Stewart was doing, but Ward did run further onto the track just before Stewart got closer, and in a series where every corner is drifted around, the cars can be unpredictable and a dirt surface. If Stewart was trying to spray him, then that is pretty stupid on his part as well.

For anyone who is unsure if they want to watch the video, it is not overly graphic with respect to blood or body parts, but you are obviously watching a fatal accident and see Ward laying at the side of the track.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:29 am
by Pedrosa_4_Ever
minchy wrote:
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:Looked at the video. The kid is f**king stupid to be wandering the track just to make some petty signals at TS but it also looks like Stewart wanted to gun the engine and spray him with mud or whatever as he drove by and got it horribly wrong. I'm pretty sure (in my none expert opinion) that if this wasn't a big shot celeb, it would be a nailed on involuntary manslaughter charge.

I really can't tell from the quality of the spectators video what Stewart was doing, but Ward did run further onto the track just before Stewart got closer, and in a series where every corner is drifted around, the cars can be unpredictable and a dirt surface. If Stewart was trying to spray him, then that is pretty stupid on his part as well.

For anyone who is unsure if they want to watch the video, it is not overly graphic with respect to blood or body parts, but you are obviously watching a fatal accident and see Ward laying at the side of the track.

They were under caution though and I do think you hear Stewart rev it up as he's going past. Either way, this is such a needless and avoidable incident.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:29 am
by mac_d
oz_karter wrote:My thinking is that Stewart didn't see Ward running across the track because his view was obscured by the car in front. At least I hope so. It's unthinkable that anyone would deliberately do that.


I'm wanting this to be the case.

I admit I am not a NASCAR follower, but why the hell was Ward Jr standing on the track? Was he trying to get to the inside of the track or was he trying to noise up a driver (perhaps the one he was next to when he crashed, hard to tell if he drifted wide into the wall or another guy pushed him wide)?

This is sad. Both because someone was killed and because it looks like it could have been so easily avoided. If Tony Stewart did it deliberately then that's awful. If it was an accident (which, will be my default stance until I see strong evidence otherwise) then it's terrible for Stewart, who will have to live with this, too.

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:30 am
by tootsie323
Had a quick look (shocking), and followed up by reading some comments on YouTube. There are a number of contrasting opinions as to why Stewart may have hit Ward so I can't draw any hard and fast conclusions from that. All I am inm agreement is that nobody should be walking across a live circuit, especially just to make a point.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:44 am
by pokerman
Has the video been pulled now?

Re: Tony Stewart kills driver in accident

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:45 am
by UnlikeUday
tootsie323 wrote:Had a quick look (shocking), and followed up by reading some comments on YouTube. There are a number of contrasting opinions as to why Stewart may have hit Ward so I can't draw any hard and fast conclusions from that. All I am inm agreement is that nobody should be walking across a live circuit, especially just to make a point.


Could Ward's inexperience have made him make this crucial mistake?

Still don't think a driver would intentionally kill.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:52 am
by Toby.
Tragic news. I don't condone the headline "Tony Stewart Kills Driver...", though. It makes it out as if it was a premeditated incident when there's no evidence to suggest it was the case.

Stewart could be in an awful lot of trouble for this. I'm sure it wasn't his intention to hit Ward Jr, but his seemingly intimidatory action in the form of applying power as he passed him on the track has clearly resulted in tragedy.

My thoughts are with the Ward family.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:54 am
by Mod Grey
I felt the same way Toby, have changed the thread title in response.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:06 pm
by Laura23
What I find even more unbelievable is Tony Stewart will race again tonight. No way should he be racing again less than 24 hours after such an incident.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:11 pm
by minchy
Laura23 wrote:What I find even more unbelievable is Tony Stewart will race again tonight. No way should he be racing again less than 24 hours after such an incident.

Is that from a mental perspective or a legal one?

If it mentally, I would tend to agree with you. Intentional or not, taking someone's life is a very emotional thing (I know some soldiers who flat out refuse to talk about their experiences even when it's not classified) and it will take time to recover properly from it.

Legally, I'm not so sure, he has been released by police pending further investigation. But I've not seen anywhere if Ward's family are looking to press charges or take further action.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:12 pm
by Pedrosa_4_Ever
Laura23 wrote:What I find even more unbelievable is Tony Stewart will race again tonight. No way should he be racing again less than 24 hours after such an incident.

Has it been confirmed he's racing? I know he was released by the police but didn't know if he was still going to drive or not. I'd be worried about his emotional state if he's handed a car so soon after something like this.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:14 pm
by Laura23
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Laura23 wrote:What I find even more unbelievable is Tony Stewart will race again tonight. No way should he be racing again less than 24 hours after such an incident.

Has it been confirmed he's racing? I know he was released by the police but didn't know if he was still going to drive or not. I'd be worried about his emotional state if he's handed a car so soon after something like this.


https://twitter.com/JennaFryer/status/498434741109284864


He shouldn't be racing from a legal or a mental perspective IMO. His head must be mashed up and he still could be on a manslaughter charge yet.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:15 pm
by jimmyj
What an awful disaster. I hope they do an honest and thorough investigation. Terrible stuff. I agree with the points about letting drivers walk about the track after crashes. There's no place for it and it should not be allowed.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:16 pm
by Mod Grey
AP are reporting he will race tonight.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:17 pm
by Laura23
Mod Grey wrote:AP are reporting he will race tonight.

Absolutely stupid. His head will not be in the right place after last night and that's just putting himself and others in danger once again.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:19 pm
by jimmyj
Laura23 wrote:
Mod Grey wrote:AP are reporting he will race tonight.

Absolutely stupid. His head will not be in the right place after last night and that's just putting himself and others in danger once again.

Well said. I wouldn't race just as a matter of respect for goodness sakes.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:21 pm
by pokerman
Managed to watch it on my other computor, it seems the car in front of Stewart had to take avoiding action to miss him then of course Stewart the next car hit him, he was stood in the middle of the track. crazy.

Maybe officials will now start to penalise drivers for such reckless behaviour for their own safety, has this not been done in the past maybe because its good for the show?

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:22 pm
by Pedrosa_4_Ever
Jesus, I'd hope his team owner (or does he drive for his own team now? Someone senior in the team then) would step up and say "For a myriad of reasons, you shouldn't be racing today. Just go home".

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:23 pm
by Rekonizakilla
Certain posters on this thread said "we shouldn't be aloud to talk about it", " it's not fair on his family" when I posted about the suspect in the theft case the other day, and it was quickly locked. We can't talk about Michael Schumacher still because that's deemed insensitive.

Why the double standards, mods? Don't get me wrong, I think people should be aloud to talk about all things, and simply have the inappropriate posts banned or removed. The precedent has been set now, so good luck explaining this one.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:25 pm
by Laura23
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:Jesus, I'd hope his team owner (or does he drive for his own team now? Someone senior in the team then) would step up and say "For a myriad of reasons, you shouldn't be racing today. Just go home".

Stewart is his own boss IIRC. The organisers of the race should step in and tell him he's not going to partake today for obvious reasons.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:26 pm
by pokerman
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:Jesus, I'd hope his team owner (or does he drive for his own team now? Someone senior in the team then) would step up and say "For a myriad of reasons, you shouldn't be racing today. Just go home".

Yes personally speaking i wouldn't be racing even if i knew it was 100% not my fault, thats got to take some getting over

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:31 pm
by Laura23
Rekonizakilla wrote:Certain posters on this thread said "we shouldn't be aloud to talk about it", " it's not fair on his family" when I posted about the suspect in the theft case the other day, and it was quickly locked. We can't talk about Michael Schumacher still because that's deemed insensitive.

Why the double standards, mods? Don't get me wrong, I think people should be aloud to talk about all things, and simply have the inappropriate posts banned or removed. The precedent has been set now, so good luck explaining this one.

We know what happened her and the guy is dead. There is no speculating on his condition etc because the outcome is already final. As for Stewart, we know he did hit him and we know the kid did walk out onto a live race track. This is a motorsports event as well so has a clear link to this particular forum, the Schumacher incident did not because it occurred on a ski slope.

If Ward was still alive and his condition unclear then yes, it would be unfair to speculate on it and cause more confusion. The same was true of the Schumacher situation. The theft of his medical files had nothing to do with F1 and it is a situation that is still ongoing and still apparently very sensitive to his family. The mods were protecting the forum from anyone possibly posting libel.

The two situations are very different. In any case I wouldn't blame the mods for locking the either if they choose to do so.

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:53 pm
by Jenson's Understeer
Really horrible incident. Amazing how many people (not necessarily on here, but on YouTube, Twitter, etc.) are attributing the blame based on what, one clip where you don't even see what line Stewart is taking through the corner. Impossible to make any kind of judgement based on that. Unless they have the sort of telemetry on the cars that allows them to see what Stewart was doing with his throttle, steering, etc., it strikes me as one of those incidents where only he will ever know. And even if they do, it might still be difficult to know for sure.

As for Ward Jr. himself, his own stupidity has just cost him his life. What a waste. Why even put yourself in that situation?

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:57 pm
by Martin K
Laura23 wrote:
Rekonizakilla wrote:Certain posters on this thread said "we shouldn't be aloud to talk about it", " it's not fair on his family" when I posted about the suspect in the theft case the other day, and it was quickly locked. We can't talk about Michael Schumacher still because that's deemed insensitive.

Why the double standards, mods? Don't get me wrong, I think people should be aloud to talk about all things, and simply have the inappropriate posts banned or removed. The precedent has been set now, so good luck explaining this one.

We know what happened her and the guy is dead. There is no speculating on his condition etc because the outcome is already final. As for Stewart, we know he did hit him and we know the kid did walk out onto a live race track. This is a motorsports event as well so has a clear link to this particular forum, the Schumacher incident did not because it occurred on a ski slope.

If Ward was still alive and his condition unclear then yes, it would be unfair to speculate on it and cause more confusion. The same was true of the Schumacher situation. The theft of his medical files had nothing to do with F1 and it is a situation that is still ongoing and still apparently very sensitive to his family. The mods were protecting the forum from anyone possibly posting libel.

The two situations are very different. In any case I wouldn't blame the mods for locking the either if they choose to do so.


That still does not explain why it's apparently ok to have discussions of this nature on the main PF1 site
http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/9409134/Schumacher-theft-suspect-found-dead
but not on the forum :?

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:58 pm
by Rekonizakilla
Laura23 wrote:
Rekonizakilla wrote:Certain posters on this thread said "we shouldn't be aloud to talk about it", " it's not fair on his family" when I posted about the suspect in the theft case the other day, and it was quickly locked. We can't talk about Michael Schumacher still because that's deemed insensitive.

Why the double standards, mods? Don't get me wrong, I think people should be aloud to talk about all things, and simply have the inappropriate posts banned or removed. The precedent has been set now, so good luck explaining this one.

We know what happened her and the guy is dead. There is no speculating on his condition etc because the outcome is already final. As for Stewart, we know he did hit him and we know the kid did walk out onto a live race track. This is a motorsports event as well so has a clear link to this particular forum, the Schumacher incident did not because it occurred on a ski slope.

If Ward was still alive and his condition unclear then yes, it would be unfair to speculate on it and cause more confusion. The same was true of the Schumacher situation. The theft of his medical files had nothing to do with F1 and it is a situation that is still ongoing and still apparently very sensitive to his family. The mods were protecting the forum from anyone possibly posting libel.

The two situations are very different. In any case I wouldn't blame the mods for locking the either if they choose to do so.


Yeah, but people are speculating as to whether Stewart intentionally hit Ward. The drivers are almost encouraged to act like friends, and Stewart himself had done the same in the past. For the sake of argument, here's what the mods said:

"Ok, once again we are speculating on details about which speculation is rather inappropriate. We do try to leave things open wherever possible but there is no F1 connection in this since Schumacher is no longer in a position to even drive, let alone still racing. It is also rather futile speculation as we cannot possibly have all the details."

As for relevance to f1, there's an off topic section as you know, which has even got threads about wars and other sensitive issues which people speculate about. Please feel free to put them in order of sensitivity.

Have you ever seen that SouthPark episode where Cartman tries to get Family guy pulled off air?

Re: Kevin Ward Jr killed in Sprint Car incident.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:05 pm
by Amon
Just read the article and must say wth. Of course it's sad for Ward and his family but it's pretty stupid to go on a race track with cars still running. Can't believe that this kind of behavior is encouraged. I have read that there are sometimes fisticuffs or scolding between drivers in NASCAR but I always thought those things were done off the race track.
I rather have the F1 PR robot personalities than this kind of wild west cow boy racing mentality.