planetf1.com

Amon wrote:I'm no fan of the current format even though there were worse ones such as the average of 2 sessions over 1 lap.

When was this? I've been watching for nearly 50 years but don't remember ever seeing or hearing about this format.

"Fernando is faster than you" and other incidents like this (team orders) did not sit well with a newer generation that ultimately turned off. Older fans like myself were used to it and accepted it.
Couple this with a blandness because of over domination and over regulation we ended up with a lot of boring races.

James14 wrote:"Fernando is faster than you" and other incidents like this (team orders) did not sit well with a newer generation that ultimately turned off. Older fans like myself were used to it and accepted it.
Couple this with a blandness because of over domination and over regulation we ended up with a lot of boring races.

Incidents like "Fernando is faster than you" has never been appreciated by any generation!

Remember the uproar (quite correctly) when Barri was told to let Schumi pass in Austria '02?

IIRC team orders were pretty much restricted to favourable strategies after that - until "Alonso is faster than you" in '10. Obviously I'm excluding Singapore '08 when Piquet deliberately crashed to give Alonso an advantage - as we only found this out a couple of years later.

dirtysurfer wrote:Lack of personality. We used to have great personalities up and down the grid. Not just drivers, but team owners/managers such as Paul Stoddart, Dave Richards, Ross Brawn, Eddie Jordan had interesting things to say after the race. Now it all feels like pre-rehearsed PR speak and seems to lack passion and true opinion.

Processional and predictable racing. I used to like that a wild card could be thrown through equipment failure. It meant that the race wasn't over until the last lap. We often now see everything settle after the last pit stop (although not always recently).

both points won't change easily... f1 is a manager business, not a personality-thing... sadly, those persons aren't the political business people that you need to run a team today...

rules almost dictate that the competitive order from saturday equals sunday's race performance... allowing set-up changes would provide some chances for shake-ups but was deemed to expensive... as are components that are built to the (1-race-distance) limit...

egnat69 wrote:

dirtysurfer wrote:Lack of personality. We used to have great personalities up and down the grid. Not just drivers, but team owners/managers such as Paul Stoddart, Dave Richards, Ross Brawn, Eddie Jordan had interesting things to say after the race. Now it all feels like pre-rehearsed PR speak and seems to lack passion and true opinion.

Processional and predictable racing. I used to like that a wild card could be thrown through equipment failure. It meant that the race wasn't over until the last lap. We often now see everything settle after the last pit stop (although not always recently).

both points won't change easily... f1 is a manager business, not a personality-thing... sadly, those persons aren't the political business people that you need to run a team today...

rules almost dictate that the competitive order from saturday equals sunday's race performance... allowing set-up changes would provide some chances for shake-ups but was deemed to expensive... as are components that are built to the (1-race-distance) limit...

I agree with you and know the reasons. I am glad I got to see F1 before the corporatisation, the same can be said for many things and is just the way of the world.

I will continue to watch for now, I don't know how much exactly is habit and how much is enjoyment but I can see that there will be a watershed moment. I was hoping that was going to be FE (and less recently the proposed breakaway series), but FE is starting to look a bit gimicky with vote for power bonuses, etc so I won't be heading that way just yet.

Blinky McSquinty wrote:..., the certain knowledge that at 99% of the time the drivers cannot fully unleash their cars...

JMILAT wrote:The other thing is there is a feeling that we are no longer watching things on the limit.

I think you two have hit the nail on the head. I think LdM can often spout a lot of rubbish but he's bang on the money when he complains about drivers not being able to push sufficiently anymore:

"They must save fuel and tyres instead of being fast. The teams have to decide how much fuel they're using and how many tyres are wearing out.

"Before, it was the best man winning in the best car.

There appears to be a movement to turn F1 into a test of endurance, rather than speed. Much of the strategic element is hidden from view and has to be guessed at, which is a bit of a turn off for the fans. Is a driver slow because he's slow, or because he's been instructed to save fuel / tyres / engine / brakes / some other component of choice? Often it's not apparent and can be hard to follow.

Strategy has always played a part in F1, of course. Drivers have always had to look after their tyres and keep an eye on their fuel: Prost was famous for conserving his tyres at the start and putting the hammer down later. But the pendulum has swung too far IMO, to the point where pacing oneself appears to be valued more than having a charge. I think the real reson people are getting turned off from the sport is that they want to see the drivers going balls out again.

F1 used to be far more gladiatorial. Now the drivers and teams spend more time calculating various strategies than they do driving as fast as they can.

I do wonder if some of you are actually watching the same series I am... and if you're watching it through a pair of spectacles with a rosy tint...

While I’m in a moaning mood, and as others have eluded to, we complain a lot about one team or driver dominating.

My big problem is not the domination itself but that the regulations are so restrictive that other teams can’t develop enough throughout the year to catch up and end that domination.

Therefore we have a situation whereby we pretty much know which team will win the championship after a couple of races. How is that going to attract new fans?

It’s really no fun at to see a relatively poorly performing Ferrari or McLaren knowing that their year is over so early in the season.
F1 is supposed to be competitive sport, forget the gimmicks and just let them compete FFS!

Short answer is:
Mercedes Domination.

People want a close fight between several drivers AND several teams. They do not want to see a couple of cars get away from the rest.


Also yes, maybe the sound change played some part on it, but I dont think its that important. I mean if that would be the case, other racing series wouldn't be followed.

where is the loss of viewers?

uk obviously with paytv move.
germany due to vettell success stemmed?

everywhere due to artifical tinkering of rules etc?

sky now are going on about how they want a close race, why? Most british watching sky wont want the teams close they will want a easy win for hamilton.

After god knows how many years a 3rd of the live race is still full screen replays with live times removed.
Still dodgy camera work, constantly missing the best action.
Lack of onboard coverage.
Constant technical issues with live times dissapearing etc.
Red flag every time bit of rain.
SC's lasting too long.

DOLOMITE wrote:I do wonder if some of you are actually watching the same series I am... and if you're watching it through a pair of spectacles with a rosy tint...

Exactly when has F1 ever been perfect, its no worse now then it ever has been

nixxxon wrote:Short answer is:
Mercedes Domination.

People want a close fight between several drivers AND several teams. They do not want to see a couple of cars get away from the rest.


Also yes, maybe the sound change played some part on it, but I dont think its that important. I mean if that would be the case, other racing series wouldn't be followed.

noone I know wants this.

dominating = good to watch.

spec series = boring.

There's a dangerous assumption being made here that recorded viewing figures directly = interest.

That's like newspaper headlines screaming crime has risen when what they mean is recorded crime has risen.

Same with the music charts = sales of CD's have fallen drastically, but that doesn't mean less people are listening to music.

Interest tends to tail off as the season goes along. Why, because it's the same result, different track to the casual viewer.

I just can't imagine many youngsters/ teenagers buying into F1. It's a bit like test match cricket. To truly appreciate it, you have to invest lots of time and grey matter.

I am guessing that the average spectator/ viewers ages has risen over the years, as is happening with football.

flyboy10 wrote:

Amon wrote:I'm no fan of the current format even though there were worse ones such as the average of 2 sessions over 1 lap.

When was this? I've been watching for nearly 50 years but don't remember ever seeing or hearing about this format.

Doing a bit of research and the help of my blurry memory and voila the infamous aggregate qualifying which lasted for a whole of 6 races in 2005:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Formula_One_season
Scroll down to the part about qualifying
No wonder hardly anyone remembers it.

To me it seems that the engineers have taken too much control over proceedings. Everything has become so tightly controlled and data-driven that it seems to me that F1 has lost some of its soul. There are too many instructions from the pit wall controlling and micro-managing every aspect of the driver's race and it seems there is less opportunity for individuals to stand out. I've come to the decision that I'd like to see pit-to-car radios banned to put more emphasis on the driver to control his own race.

However I would say that the wheel-to-wheel racing is as good as it's ever been. With the restricted aero the cars are able to follow each other more closely than they have been for decades. Anyone complaining about processional races should go back and watch some races from the 90s and early 2000s, this is one area where there really is nothing wrong.

The biggest problem for me though is the move to pay TV. F1 has lost its casual fans.

chrcoluk wrote:noone I know wants this.

dominating = good to watch.

spec series = boring.

what? joking i suppose
close competition doesnt equal to spec series.

I really don't think the Mercedes domination is that much of a big deal. It may spread the rumours around that 'you shouldn't bother watch F1, it's just another car dominating'. It may be one car dominating, but we have such close competitveness at the front, and also an almighty scrap between several teams for the last podium spot.

The thing I dislike most about the new formula is the fact that they don't race on the limit. It's much more thrilling to watch the drivers right on the edge knowing that one mistake will be costly (another thing, no more run-off roads). We don't get the same thrill anymore. But is this the reason why the OPer has lost interest in the sport, I don't think so.

20 years is a long time to watch F1, and the racing probably feels a bit repetitive nowadays. When I started watching F1 in 2012, I was massively tuned into every race, taking in everything such as drafting and pit stop strategies and tyre compounds. We're now in F1, and I've nothing that I want to learn (nope, not how the brakes harvest energy and is delivered back into the engine, but thanks). Now, I'm not saying I'm bored of it, not at all! After 20 years, you'll see every type of overtake, every random tale of events and the fight for the drivers title being the same as the one years before. Don't you just think that you're just simply bored of it? Like a game on the playstation, or having the same meal every week.

But the problem for the lack of viewership is the lack of recycling fans. Fans used to come and go. But, now they go, but nobody comes... The intenet should be promoting F1 massively around the web, it's cheap and people see it easily. What's the incentive for young people like me watching 'cars driving around circles' (ugh, I despise that expression). There are only 2 other people out of 150 in my year that watch formula one, and they're the record and maybe watch later sort of people. None of the youth watch F1. These are the people who have unlimited amounts of spare time in the summer watching Dr Phil or whatever. But we should get them involved in F1. The Internet holds the key to advertising for the youth. Tell them that an F1 car can driver upside down in a tunnel, and they'd be like, that's pretty cool. The youth are too stubborn to flick it on, and we've got to do something about it.

My brother has only recently started watching F1, and we were just talking about the layouts of the track, how I wished there were gravel traps, and I was surprised to hear him say he'd like run-off roads. This is half-hearted proof that a fan will adapt to the new formulae, and may not mind to see the ERS and so on in F1. Also, I don't think these minor things of DRS and ugly noses are the reason people stop watching F1. Maybe a build up of a dozen things, but not simply 4/5 nuisances.

For me I think zoue made a point that stuck with me and that is the loss of a more gladiatorial aspect to the sport maybe its me being rose tinted about it but I liked the regs when you had bemothic cars that took a great effort to drive and then you had your foe to go up against as well, Having cars that out powered there tyres and suspention was much more ben hur than what I see now, its still good just not great.

I think one of the main reasons for drop in viewers is the change to pay tv in the UK and other countries. A huge ,enthusiastic audience has been lost worldwide.

I've been following for a few years (cough), and I don't think any of the recent seasons' racing has been less excting than in earlier times. Clark winning 7/10 races could be really boring, before that usually Fangio, Ascari or Moss led and won from the early laps. I thought 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2012 were among the most exciting seasons. It is accidental how many teams/cars/drivers fight at the front each season. 2014 with two team-mates going at each other for wins is not so exceptional (Prost-Senna 1988-9). I still enjoy battles through the filed.

DRS, compulsory tyres, nutty points systems and grid penalties are not helping though.

Bland and uninteresting.

Even before practice we know what is going to happen, and I dont mean the Mercs, or Red Bulls as it was, are going to run away with it.

The only real option for anyone is to start on the hard or soft rubber or in the case of 4 cars, to go out and do a lap or not.

Now and again a car or two will have a mishap and start out of its normal grid slot, but we know it will usually be back in place in a handful of laps.

Everyone has the same aero the same engine same rubber same choice of strategy, there is nothing for the midfield to try, no new components that may or may not work or not last the race, no possibility of a slower car passing a lead car due to driving or passing backmarkers, no option of refueling early or late, using supersofts for a couple of laps or super hards to do it non stop.


In short, regulated to death.

F1 has become too corporate. Get rid of the car manufacturers, bring back the independents, get budgets under control, bring back the underdog and, most importantly, make sport the driving force not profit.

In a way it's grimly satisfying to hear about fans leaving in their droves as it sends a clear message to the corporations that they have no place in sport.

j man wrote:To me it seems that the engineers have taken too much control over proceedings. Everything has become so tightly controlled and data-driven that it seems to me that F1 has lost some of its soul. There are too many instructions from the pit wall controlling and micro-managing every aspect of the driver's race and it seems there is less opportunity for individuals to stand out. I've come to the decision that I'd like to see pit-to-car radios banned to put more emphasis on the driver to control his own race.

However I would say that the wheel-to-wheel racing is as good as it's ever been. With the restricted aero the cars are able to follow each other more closely than they have been for decades. Anyone complaining about processional races should go back and watch some races from the 90s and early 2000s, this is one area where there really is nothing wrong.

The biggest problem for me though is the move to pay TV. F1 has lost its casual fans.

I agree i hate how much coaching the drivers get from the engineers

chaz986 wrote:For me I think zoue made a point that stuck with me and that is the loss of a more gladiatorial aspect to the sport maybe its me being rose tinted about it but I liked the regs when you had bemothic cars that took a great effort to drive and then you had your foe to go up against as well, Having cars that out powered there tyres and suspention was much more ben hur than what I see now, its still good just not great.

Well in that respect the cars are much better now then they were last season

Why the loss of interest? A few thoughts...

F1 was once about how fast a car could be made to go and driven. The pinnacle of motorsport. Pure racing and performance.

Now we have:

-Artificial passing manoeuvres
-Driving to save fuel and tyres
-Constant rule changes that further restrict the engineers and designers
-A broken qualifying format

This year in particular has seen some very good racing (apart from the Mercedes domination) and interesting team mate battles. But over the years F1 has got to wrapped up in trying to be something it isn't.

pokerman wrote:

chaz986 wrote:For me I think zoue made a point that stuck with me and that is the loss of a more gladiatorial aspect to the sport maybe its me being rose tinted about it but I liked the regs when you had bemothic cars that took a great effort to drive and then you had your foe to go up against as well, Having cars that out powered there tyres and suspention was much more ben hur than what I see now, its still good just not great.

Well in that respect the cars are much better now then they were last season

Yes, today's cars at least have a surfeit of power over grip.

The cars just arnt cool any more i love f1, have done since the day i was born , but the only race i get excited sbout now is lemans24h the cars are diffrent, they dont look silly -maby mad in the case of the delta wing...

I still go to thing like the british gp, and watch, im just not intredted

You know how a lot of small things make an f1 car faster, i think also a lot of small things are loosing my love of f1

Amon wrote:

flyboy10 wrote:

Amon wrote:I'm no fan of the current format even though there were worse ones such as the average of 2 sessions over 1 lap.

When was this? I've been watching for nearly 50 years but don't remember ever seeing or hearing about this format.

Doing a bit of research and the help of my blurry memory and voila the infamous aggregate qualifying which lasted for a whole of 6 races in 2005:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Formula_One_season
Scroll down to the part about qualifying
No wonder hardly anyone remembers it.

I'd completely forgotten about that - and still can't remember it!

So many good points made in this thread re. 1) the loss of enthusiasm from those who have loved F1 for many years and 2) TV viewing figures going down.

I doubt that the reasons are entirely the same for both categories - although there is more than likely some overlap.

IMO it would probably be better to have two separate threads - one for 'why is F1 not attracting new viewers' and another for 'why are long-term F1 fans less enthusiastic'.

No Schumacher. Alonso and Raikkonen stuck in a piece of fairy cakes Ferrari. Save tyres save fuel. Push to pass.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

chaz986 wrote:For me I think zoue made a point that stuck with me and that is the loss of a more gladiatorial aspect to the sport maybe its me being rose tinted about it but I liked the regs when you had bemothic cars that took a great effort to drive and then you had your foe to go up against as well, Having cars that out powered there tyres and suspention was much more ben hur than what I see now, its still good just not great.

Well in that respect the cars are much better now then they were last season

Yes, today's cars at least have a surfeit of power over grip.

Yer agreed its nice to see that aspect coming back and I like the new engines but there is as has been well covered to many regs and its strangling the whole thing to death.

I do think F1 moving to pay channels in many countries probably have had the largest impact in Europe. F1 used to be coffee table talk subject back in Häkkinen's time in Finland, but that changed after F1 went to pay channel.
Same goes for Red Bull dominance now moving to Mercedes, that is even more dominant with those two drivers. F1 can thank its luck that these drivers dominating have also come from big countries. Certainly not bringing any new neutral fans.

Imo neutral masses only watching the races from TV care far less about the engine changes and such, compared to people who take this a bit more seriously and are part of forums like this.

Apart from all rules, that most of you mentioned, that remove a lot of the pure driving and driver individuality, as well as add too much artificial taste, i think it's generation think change too.
I don't think there is a big influx of new fans of F1.
Younger people can hardly stand and hour and a half to watch cars driving (a lot of the times without anything interesting happening) one after another.
If F1 doesn't change drastically in the coming years it will slowly die away as a top motor sport i think.
The irony will be that part of what the ruling factors in F1 think will revive it - making it more of a show, will actually kill it.
You can't attract the masses to F1, but with their way they alienate the hardcore fans.

Things they have to change to give F1 better chance:
- stop micromanaging everything.
- bring back the "pedal to the floor" feeling. No more fuel saving, tire saving.
- let the drivers race without artificial additions, just remove all the fancy aero stuff and let the good old slip-streaming do the work.
- remove the boring city races where almost no-one overtakes because the road was made for effing civilian cars, not for F1 cars.
- cut on the too long pauses.
- make the races shorter, at most an hour, even that is too much.

These are just some of the things.

The irony here is that we are reading a list of reasons about why people don't watch F1... By people who presumably do watch it...

Anyone know anyone who used to watch regularly but doesn't any longer? If so ask them why.

DOLOMITE wrote:The irony here is that we are reading a list of reasons about why people don't watch F1... By people who presumably do watch it...

Anyone know anyone
That wants who used to watch regularly but don't any longer? if so ask them why.

I had two buddies that stopped watching because their teams exited the sport. One was a Honda fan and the other a bmw fan.

I personally lost some interest when Schumacher left. Had big hopes for Kimi but didn't feel the Ferrari fit his driving style as I still feel it doesn't. I'd get a lot more joy out of watching Kimi in a car that suits him.

Then Alonso joined Ferrari and killed any interest I had in that team... he was the enemy from 06 still in my mind.

I miss the aerodynamic cars that looked awesome with the huge tires. They looked like rocket ships on rails. F2008 with Marlboro all over it was my favorite.

Previous qualifying format left room for good drivers to start farther back more often which mixed up the grid a bit more.

DOLOMITE wrote:The irony here is that we are reading a list of reasons about why people don't watch F1... By people who presumably do watch it...

Anyone know anyone who used to watch regularly but doesn't any longer? If so ask them why.

Who do you expect to post on a forum for F1 and eventually point out the problems and give suggestions?
Surely it won't be someone who is not even watching it, right?

I think that the sport isn't as big as it used to be but the glamour and fuzz are maybe bigger than ever. So in my eyes we have an overhyped racing series instead "pinnacle of motorsport".
I can only compare modern F1 to the state it was in rhe turn of the millenium. What we had back then was constant development of cars and unlimited spareparts and even spare cars. If you blew your engine in practise, no problem. Just take a new one. Started having troubles during race? Just keep going and hope it lasts. And because you were going flat out, the guy in front has to go flat out and causes techical failures and driving mistakes.
So in sportswise F1 isn't anymore even close to what it was. And I'm not talking any golden ages of 60's or 70's but in relatively modern ages.
F1 should be the final frontier of little dangerous speed orientated motorport.
It's just so frustrating to watch qualifying when half of the drivers are are allowed to start with fresh tires and half are forced to start with used ones. And with those budgets it's laughable that they don't have enough tires to survive saturday and sunday. And then we have those copound rules, DRS, fuel limits...
I just can't respect it anymre as much as I used to.

here in brazil after 23 years in a row they stoped broadcasting the whole qualyfying session to broadcast cartoons instead, its a clear sign f1 lost atention

Personally. I find I have lost interest recently. Mainly because I can no longer afford SSF1. For me the race needs to be live. I'll put up with the highlights but its not the same and I feel myself slowly losing interest.

Did not people say that pay to view would kill viewing figures?