Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

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crankcase
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Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by crankcase »

I've been an F1 fan for 20 years or more but in the last few seasons the passion has gone!!

I thought it was the Vettel effect possibly but I got through the Schumi years ok so I don't think that was it.

The lack of sound doesn't bother me, yes the sound was awesome, but unless you don't want to talk to anyone for a week about what you've just experienced and live in your own little world for a while then its something you want for a while but not the whole experience (in my view)

The DRS and ERS (KERS or whatever) doesn't bother me. The old processions were boring, yet I was interested throughout the season despite the dominance of whichever team was in front.

Small engines don't bother me, aero doesn't bother me, dominance doesn't bother me so why have I totally lost the passion?

There are figures bandied about regarding the loss of viewers and reasons for it but none of them ring true to me. I used to read every site with news, read every forum with passion and watch every second I could. Would be up for every race in asia, would never miss a second of practice etc.... Now my interest has dropped to cancelling sky, not even watching races at times and just having no passion for the sport at all, whats gone wrong?

I honestly thought that 2014 would reignite the fire before the season started, a bit of unreliability and new people coming through like Rosberg but no I just don't really have any interest at all anymore.

After 20 something years I don't understand why? Can anyone explain? Like I said its not new rules, so what is it?

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AngusWolfe
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by AngusWolfe »

You don't have a problem, I don't have a problem, some do. Plus in a lot of markets the TV rights have gone to companies like sky where you have to pay (on top of the TV liscence in the UK) to watch.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

So what turns your crank, what makes you all excited and interested?

IMO this has been a dismal season. There have been bright spots, such as Hamilton and Rosberg locked in a battle, Bottas, Ricciardo, and Williams (for me) but there have also been some real buzz-killers. And it's a very long list. Alonso and Raikkonen, both top-tier drivers unable to compete because somehow Ferrari have lost their way, the Renault engines sucking the life out of anyone using them, the lack of reliability, the still ugly noses, some teams in dire financial straights, the certain knowledge that at 99% of the time the drivers cannot fully unleash their cars, and the politics. Yikes, the politics, that has become a very unpleasant distraction.

A good measure of the "happiness" level in Formula One can be measured by the types of posts in this forum. What are we discussing and arguing about? Trivial crap, it's a rare event when suddenly people get excited about the actual events and racing that happens on track. Just look at the World Cup, look at what people are buzzing about .. Van Persie's goal, the collapse of Spain and Brazil, Saurez and his diet, the list is long and exciting. They have something to talk about, something to savor, and something to look forward to next time around.

And what do we have to look forward to? Even weirder changes, even more disgusting politics, and racing that isn't really racing anymore.

Crankcase, I feel the same way. I am still addicted, but somehow along the way the races don't reach that peak of fun and excitement, I don't get my nerdgasm. There used to be times when the racing couldn't come soon enough, I just couldn't wait until race day, get up in the morning and say to myself, "great, they are racing as this track, this is going to be fun to watch, I can't wait until it starts". Now, it's more like, "oh yea, race is on at eight".

JMILAT
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by JMILAT »

Honestly I think the Vettel effect is a big part of it. This is not like Schumacher or Marquez (motogp) dominating as with those two it is the great driver in the great car rather than just the good driver in the great car. Watching Marquez you feel you are watching the next big thing whilst with Vettel it was more like he's only beating Alonso because his car is better. Once the second half of 2013 started to roll in that was it I think for a lot of people. I think this is half of it.

The other thing is there is a feeling that we are no longer watching things on the limit. We've artificially dumbed things down rather than pushing everything to the limit as we were only even a few years ago and in the process devalueing what the drivers are doing. The problem is that the powers that be wrongfully thought we were after excitement, rather we just want to see a competition with everything on the limit between the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Rosberg, Vettel and Ricciardo.

We have more exciting racing than ever so this is clearly not the problem and is despite what people say not what they are after. Yet rather than fix the real issue it seems that F1 wants to go further in the direction they are going in with things like double points and standing restarts after safety cars.

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specdecible
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by specdecible »

Honestly, I think it is because we have been spoiled. In the pursuit to improve the racing, regulations have been brought in to make overtaking easier and more common to the extent they start to lose their significance. Look at Ricciardo's overtake on Hulkenberg in Austria for example, if that had happened 10 years ago people would be losing their minds, but today its just seen as another overtake.

I often wonder what Formula 1 might be like today if Canada 2010 never happened, as that one race changed the face of what people wanted F1 to be like.
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chaz986
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by chaz986 »

politics, the corperate character of drivers, and ever more stringent and silly rules I would say have blunted a good show that had more open rules and great drivers of a less than pc nature, plus some fine drives ,I feel that are lives are ever more micro managed and maybe F1 was something that took us away from that only to find it is burdened by the same yoke.

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bourbon19
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by bourbon19 »

JMILAT wrote:Honestly I think the Vettel effect is a big part of it. This is not like Schumacher or Marquez (motogp) dominating as with those two it is the great driver in the great car rather than just the good driver in the great car. Watching Marquez you feel you are watching the next big thing whilst with Vettel it was more like he's only beating Alonso because his car is better. Once the second half of 2013 started to roll in that was it I think for a lot of people. I think this is half of it.

The other thing is there is a feeling that we are no longer watching things on the limit. We've artificially dumbed things down rather than pushing everything to the limit as we were only even a few years ago and in the process devalueing what the drivers are doing. The problem is that the powers that be wrongfully thought we were after excitement, rather we just want to see a competition with everything on the limit between the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Rosberg, Vettel and Ricciardo.

We have more exciting racing than ever so this is clearly not the problem and is despite what people say not what they are after. Yet rather than fix the real issue it seems that F1 wants to go further in the direction they are going in with things like double points and standing restarts after safety cars.


It's all Vettel's fault, lol. This season its Lewis and Nico and viewership is dropping still and the people complaining they were bored are still bored. I guess they are now boring us with mediocre drivers in a great car. Nonsense. 2010 was one of the most excited seasons we've had in ages and 2012 was also great, tons of winners, racing to the end. This season is not as suspenseful, but it has had great moments. So I don't know why you feel as you do, but I don't think your view is the correct answer to the issue posed, although it may be your answer.

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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by vince14 »

JMILAT wrote:Honestly I think the Vettel effect is a big part of it. This is not like Schumacher or Marquez (motogp) dominating as with those two it is the great driver in the great car rather than just the good driver in the great car.

Please explain the massive drop-off in viewers from 2001-2005.

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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by egnat69 »

AngusWolfe wrote:You don't have a problem, I don't have a problem, some do. Plus in a lot of markets the TV rights have gone to companies like sky where you have to pay (on top of the TV liscence in the UK) to watch.

this is one issue... sky isn't really cheap...

second issue i see is that F1 lost the "casual" factor... you have to be really involved to understand what's going on... not only technology-wise but also rules-wise... drivers are being handed penalties from the last race, from a practice session, due to some part being changed and so on... we understand that but the casual viewer who opted to watch like 10 races a season will lose track quickly...

this year, i could see another factor coming in... i was hoping for that uncertainty factor coming back... when i started watching f1, a handful of engines blew up every race, gearboxes broke with 3 laps to go or a guy ran out of fuel... someone hit a golden bullet with changing the setup between qualifying and the race... that all is being prevented by the rules... i was hoping for some blown up engines with the new regs, but that didn't really turn out to be the case... so, probably lots of people had high hopes pinned on those new set of rules and they just didn't turn out...

in the end, there is also more competition... more tv-stations, more things to watch, more work and other life-stuff equals less time...
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smoothcrim
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by smoothcrim »

Because Webber retired, and because he didnt get equal treatment at redbull the last few years.

The people have spoken.

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specdecible
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by specdecible »

smoothcrim wrote:Because Webber retired, and because he didnt get equal treatment at redbull the last few years.

The people have spoken.

When Webber left he took all the excitement with him to WEC
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babararacucudada
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by babararacucudada »

I watch less because I don't care enough to pay Sky prices to watch.

The racing is artificial and cautious.

I liked drivers like Jo Siffert - who drove flat out all race, even if their car didn't make the finish.

I want to see powerful cars that can race in close proximity to each other and are difficult to drive at their limit. I want to see more than one or two drivers with a chance of winning. Having 3 or 4 discards is a good way of encouraging drivers to drive hard all race.

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Biffa
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Biffa »

I get where the OP is coming from, in the past I would never miss a GP weekend but these days I can take it or leave it. I still love the sport but am just not as excited as I once was.

Personally I think it’s a combination of me getting older and the sport becoming so refined that it is growing more sterile.

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MistaVega23
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by MistaVega23 »

Chaincase, may I ask your age range? Like you, I have been an avid fan for over 20 years, I'm 30 now and in the last 5-6 years I've felt my hyperactivity in anticipation of a race weekend dwindle somewhat. I've thought of many possibilities for this; the Vettel effect, the introduction of joke tyres and DRS, the tightening of the regs, too many races, the availability of F1 media 24/7, even new tracks that are pretty bad. I've considered everything.

But I firmly believe it's simply a case of getting older. When I was growing up and through my teens I'd be jumping up and down at the thought of waking up at 3am for Melbourne. I'd read Autosport and F1 Racing over and watch the season reviews every single night. But as I've progressed through my 20s and entered my 30s I've simply got no time for it anymore. Seventy per cent of the races I watch now are pre-recorded and rarely do I watch the pre-race build-up. I skip to the end of Q1 and Q2 and now don't even watch the podium interviews. Having a family and other commitments means I simply don't have the time for it like I used to. If I was single and living on my own would I watch it more? Probably, but deep down I think I'd be the same.

Growing up, I never ever thought I would attend a GP weekend. I thought it too expensive and way out of my reach. Besides I put the sport on such a pedestal that I even classed myself as 'beneath' it! Then I went to Silverstone in 2012, and my dream was realised. But at the same time I was a little deflated; at the end of the day it's just a bunch of cars going around a track. But would I have felt the same if I had attended a GP at eleven years old? I think not.

Don't get me wrong, F1 is my life and always will be, but now I've grown up I've put certain things ahead of it and now I simply watch it when I can (and when the missus allows me!). My stepson recorded over the Spanish GP last year and I almost threw him out, so on that front I guess you could still class me as a 'fan'!

Now I know there are a great many people on this forum who are older than me and do now what I used to do as a kid, but like I said it's just something I've considered.
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Covalent
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Covalent »

^I think you may have a point... I too am in my thirties and while I still have all the reason to feel as exited as I did ten years ago, I just don't.

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Biffa
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Biffa »

Covalent wrote:^I think you may have a point... I too am in my thirties and while I still have all the reason to feel as exited as I did ten years ago, I just don't.


He he, yes maybe we're all just getting too bloody old and cynical.

We should have a separate seniors message board where we can all have a good moan about things and leave the youngsters to slog it out!

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DOLOMITE
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by DOLOMITE »

Well, I have been watching F1 for nearly 25 years, and now I watch very few live races, simply because of the move to Sky. It really is simple as that. If I do, I have to go to a mates house who has Sky. So 2 people watching but only 1 TV. If this is common, then there's your drop in numbers. Other thing is of course, catch-up TV means you have the option to watch later when previosly you had to watch it live or the scheduled highlights.
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LKS1
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by LKS1 »

Biffa wrote:I get where the OP is coming from, in the past I would never miss a GP weekend but these days I can take it or leave it. I still love the sport but am just not as excited as I once was.

Personally I think it’s a combination of me getting older and the sport becoming so refined that it is growing more sterile.

Same here. A few years ago I'd stay up until any unearthly hour to watch the race live - now I watch the re-play the following morning.

I don't think its just getting older, but perhaps we no longer have a driver that we support fervently?

The rule changes haven't helped either e.g. DRS making overtaking far easier/v difficult to defend etc. etc.

But I suspect the most important factor is whether or not you have a much-loved driver in a car that is capable of winning the race?

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Beschy
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Beschy »

I know where OP is coming from, but have no real answer either.

Logically I can readily accept that this is a classic season and is on paper, really exciting.

For some reason though, I'm not half as psyched as I was in say...2012.

I'm 26 years old.
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mcdo
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by mcdo »

I think people don't understand that there's an ongoing epic battle for the WDC. All they hear is "Merc domination" and have no interest. They immediately think Schumacher or Vettel and never bother having a look. The majority have probably vaguely heard of Nico Rosberg from that one time they watched a race back in 2007

The switch to pay TV in some countries and the fact that Bernie remains a million miles behind the rest of the world in embracing the internet is obviously impacting viewership. For such a shrewd businessman it's amazing how flipping thick he can be. Like Prince. Who is also tiny.

I've often been told that the bikes are more entertaining. Anyone that is finding MotoGP more entertaining than F1 right now is demented
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by egnat69 »

so from what has been said, it seems clear that people that grow older just have less time to spend... i'm having the same issue... family, work, hobbies... the days are like 12 hours short sometimes...

but the real issue here would be that seemingly after our generation (i'm 29), F1 failed to reach the youth...
How to fix F1:
1. Stop seeking consensuses on rules - it will always turn out to be the least favourible option for everyone involved...
2. Listen to the fans - there are plenty of them and they have good ideas...

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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Balibari »

There are two different stories here I think, albeit with some likely crossover: practical and sporting. Changes in the way we watch TV and the shift to pay services is obviously going to reduce ratings. And some fans have been put off by Vettel domination and increasingly artificial racing thanks to the regs. I nearly took a step back from F1 when it went to Sky, but I decided to bury my conscience and bend over for Rupert. I then lost interest at teh height of the comedy tyres debacle. So twice in the space of a couple of years a lifetime die hard fan nearly abandoned the sport. If I came that close, plenty must have gone further. So take your pick: pay TV, conveniance of catchup TV, Vettel domination, artificial racing and delta time cruising.
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Lt. Drebin
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Lt. Drebin »

It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in qualifications and boxes to a large degree, not that much in races itself. There is a clinical procession at the front - whoever get's ahead in qualy, he ends up being there (except for one race this year). Also, there is nothing sweet in mind games that are going on, they are not fun. There is too much PR involved in F1, and statements that are issued, before and after the races are ridiculously stupid, actually an insult to the intellect. Overtakes have lost their meaning to some degree because, again, the order can so easily change in the box (due to a team being slower a single second), or because of the safety car.

This are little things that constitute the whole flavor. And it's meh.
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mcdo
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by mcdo »

Lt. Drebin wrote:It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in boxes to a large degree.

I for one don't agree with that. There is a huge battle happening right now and I could watch the Merc boys go hard at it all day. If reliability hadn't played a part yet I reckon we would have witnessed a headline-grabbing clash by now. I was certain it was coming in Canada
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egnat69
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by egnat69 »

mcdo wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in boxes to a large degree.

I for one don't agree with that. There is a huge battle happening right now and I could watch the Merc boys go hard at it all day. If reliability hadn't played a part yet I reckon we would have witnessed a headline-grabbing clash by now. I was certain it was coming in Canada

sadly, merc decided to "treat them equally" in a bad way... they basically have to use the same race pit-stop strategy which i think is the wrong way to go...
How to fix F1:
1. Stop seeking consensuses on rules - it will always turn out to be the least favourible option for everyone involved...
2. Listen to the fans - there are plenty of them and they have good ideas...

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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by ALESI »

All of the above, plus the drivers have no charisma and limited public exposure. There's only 24 drivers in F1 why aren't they on TV all the time promoting themselves and the sport? Hamilton, despite only having won 1 title, ages ago, is supposedly the most marketable driver, probably because he's the only one joe public knows because he is going out with a Pussycat Doll. Moving to pay TV is terribly short sighted, and how long before the teams start bitching that the sponsors want to pay less because less people are watching, you can't have it both ways.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Balibari »

egnat69 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in boxes to a large degree.

I for one don't agree with that. There is a huge battle happening right now and I could watch the Merc boys go hard at it all day. If reliability hadn't played a part yet I reckon we would have witnessed a headline-grabbing clash by now. I was certain it was coming in Canada

sadly, merc decided to "treat them equally" in a bad way... they basically have to use the same race pit-stop strategy which i think is the wrong way to go...

Both drivers have changed strategy during the race in order to try and vault the other. Have I missed what you mean?

For what it's worth I agree with mcdo. I want two things from F1: a good battle for the title and cars that are visibly on the edge. The Rosberg/Hamilton duel has been one of the best head to heads in recent memory. And thanks to the new regs the cars are on the limit again and a pleasure to watch. I haven't enjoyed a season this much for a long time. More power than grip seems to be the key.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by egnat69 »

Balibari wrote:
egnat69 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in boxes to a large degree.

I for one don't agree with that. There is a huge battle happening right now and I could watch the Merc boys go hard at it all day. If reliability hadn't played a part yet I reckon we would have witnessed a headline-grabbing clash by now. I was certain it was coming in Canada

sadly, merc decided to "treat them equally" in a bad way... they basically have to use the same race pit-stop strategy which i think is the wrong way to go...

Both drivers have changed strategy during the race in order to try and vault the other. Have I missed what you mean?

For what it's worth I agree with mcdo. I want two things from F1: a good battle for the title and cars that are visibly on the edge. The Rosberg/Hamilton duel has been one of the best head to heads in recent memory. And thanks to the new regs the cars are on the limit again and a pleasure to watch. I haven't enjoyed a season this much for a long time. More power than grip seems to be the key.

Merc would have disallowed Hamilton's switch to 1-stop in Britain, due to intra-team policy... they want both drivers to do the same number of pit-stops in a race, but they will still be allowed to swap the order of the compound used... link to one of the articles on that topic: http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/07/15/ ... trategies/
How to fix F1:
1. Stop seeking consensuses on rules - it will always turn out to be the least favourible option for everyone involved...
2. Listen to the fans - there are plenty of them and they have good ideas...

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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Amon »

I have the "luck" that there are still 1 or 2 channels on cable that want to broadcast F1 for free. I wouldn't bother paying for a sports channel if F1 would be the only sport I would watch. I have simply more other things to do than watching sport all day. Most sports bore me after a while. Even the World Cup football started to get tiresome for me the more the tournament advanced.

As for F1 my interest started to decrease once Ayrton Senna had his fatal crash. Suddenly my heroes no longer were safe nor immortal. The Schumi dominance was terrible as was the privileges Ferrari got during that period. I was not always against Ferrari actually quite liked them during the Mansell-Berger and Berger-Alesi days.

The messing with the qualifying format is another thing that put me of and a reason I often find myself having qualy on but meanwhile doing other things in the house. Sometimes I even forget qualy is on. I'm no fan of the current format even though there were worse ones such as the average of 2 sessions over 1 lap. However I did like the 1 lap qualy over 1 session more than what we have now. But more so I still prefer the old format of 1 hour qualification with no shoot-outs even if little action in the first half. Exciting it was to know who actually could make the grid of the drivers for smaller teams.

Than there is the tires. Obligatory use of several compounds is only a recent thing. It enables for more strategy which sounds exciting to some but it makes battles on track less exciting because mostly one of the 2 cannot go flat out because one's tires are worn or the other has the faster compound on. It becomes much more of a guessing game for me how great an overtake was and than I haven't spoken of ERS and DNS yet. A tire war? Actually I liked those times when we had 2 tire suppliers in F1. One supplier seems fairer but still with 2 suppliers we could see at certain tracks that one supplier did better than than the other. I remember the 1990 USA race where Pirelli performed well enabling their teams to shine and compete with the Goodyear ones. Michelin did well in hot conditions versus Bridgestone some years. With 1 tire supplier smaller teams cannot rely on that to make a suprise result on some tracks.

Reliability. It has been the key to success somewhere during the mid nineties more so than winning. Cars have indeed become more reliable, but the run of areas have become so large at many tracks that mistakes aren't so costly any more rarely ending in a DNF nowadays. Drivers even ask if they can engage in a battle with another driver now! Of course not being allowed to go flat out all race helps for reliabilty too. The danger of a mistake or something that broke was painful but part of the show and sometimes really helpful for smaller teams to score points. Also the points format where only x best results counted allowed for more flat out racing and could have been reintroduced rather than the double points finale.

The F1 calendar. Even if I like Malaysia and China to some extent I think most tracks in Asia and more so in the Middle East have no place in F1. I really am not cheering for losing classic tracks or losing countries with F1 history, tradition and F1 following. France GP could be so boring but that they don't have a race for so many seasons now is something I cannot grasp giving that motor racing all started there.

The regulations. Lauda worded it perfectly that every little thing is regulated nowadays in F1 and penalised. I have never been a fan of grid penalties which are the most unfair thing to do when it happens when something breaks beyond the driver's control. Impeding a driver during qualifying is indeed unfair and happened a lot in the past too but in my mind mostly unintentional. Drivers complained but had to carry on , now we see the impeded driver complain and ask for a penalty for the one impeding him. During battles we see that happen too, sniff he didn't give me enough room, he moved of the racing line twice, he blocked me, get my teammate out of the way he is too slow. It sure gives people something to talk about on these boards but really sounds so much like a bunch of crybabies. Let them race I say and only if one drives like a lunatic or drives with a car that could cause harm to others blackflag plain and simple. If it happens more penalize with race bans. I found those penalty systems fairer and more efficient.

The safety car. Well has been discussed so many times before. Whenever an accident happens chance is big there will be a SC and I hate it. If they found another solution it I would be so happy.

Wet races excited me a lot in the past. They can be exciting still now too but often I wonder how much is due to driver skill and if it wasn't just the set-up of the car or the tires that did it. In the past I knew who would perform well on a wet track and who wouldn't. Today you don't see anyone excelling in the rain any more on a constant basis. Even the supposed rain master Schumi looked average in his comeback on a wet track sometimes.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by mcdo »

Amon wrote:The messing with the qualifying format is another thing that put me of and a reason I often find myself having qualy on but meanwhile doing other things in the house.

You know what? I have always and ever been this way throughout every iteration of qualy. I've probably only given it my full attention for Monaco, Singapore and the last handful of races (and only if there's a title battle on the cards).

Qualifying is a fundamental part of a driver's race but the whole "some guy was fast for one lap" thing doesn't interest me at all. I'll commend a driver that has a good qualy and criticise a driver that has a bad one but I personally don't derive the enjoyment that others seem to get from it. In an ideal world all 22 cars would line up side by side on Sunday :-P
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by speedysoprano »

To me, this year is so much more exciting than any of the last 5. Granted, I've only been a real F1 follower for the last 5 years, but this year seems to have so much more to hold my interest. I've always been keen to watch all the GPs, but this year I genuinely can't wait for the next one. (I'm 31, for reference).
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by AngusWolfe »

speedysoprano wrote:To me, this year is so much more exciting than any of the last 5. Granted, I've only been a real F1 follower for the last 5 years, but this year seems to have so much more to hold my interest. I've always been keen to watch all the GPs, but this year I genuinely can't wait for the next one. (I'm 31, for reference).

6 years here, I think I enjoyed 2012 more at the time, but this year is definitely a close second thusfar.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by pokerman »

egnat69 wrote:
Balibari wrote:
egnat69 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in boxes to a large degree.

I for one don't agree with that. There is a huge battle happening right now and I could watch the Merc boys go hard at it all day. If reliability hadn't played a part yet I reckon we would have witnessed a headline-grabbing clash by now. I was certain it was coming in Canada

sadly, merc decided to "treat them equally" in a bad way... they basically have to use the same race pit-stop strategy which i think is the wrong way to go...

Both drivers have changed strategy during the race in order to try and vault the other. Have I missed what you mean?

For what it's worth I agree with mcdo. I want two things from F1: a good battle for the title and cars that are visibly on the edge. The Rosberg/Hamilton duel has been one of the best head to heads in recent memory. And thanks to the new regs the cars are on the limit again and a pleasure to watch. I haven't enjoyed a season this much for a long time. More power than grip seems to be the key.

Merc would have disallowed Hamilton's switch to 1-stop in Britain, due to intra-team policy... they want both drivers to do the same number of pit-stops in a race, but they will still be allowed to swap the order of the compound used... link to one of the articles on that topic: http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/07/15/ ... trategies/

So basically the drivers do not really have 100% freedom to race one another if Mercedes would have forced Hamilton into a second pitstop even though it was not needed
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by Balibari »

egnat69 wrote:
Balibari wrote:
egnat69 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:It's because, in general, nothing epic is happening. Races are determined in boxes to a large degree.

I for one don't agree with that. There is a huge battle happening right now and I could watch the Merc boys go hard at it all day. If reliability hadn't played a part yet I reckon we would have witnessed a headline-grabbing clash by now. I was certain it was coming in Canada

sadly, merc decided to "treat them equally" in a bad way... they basically have to use the same race pit-stop strategy which i think is the wrong way to go...

Both drivers have changed strategy during the race in order to try and vault the other. Have I missed what you mean?

For what it's worth I agree with mcdo. I want two things from F1: a good battle for the title and cars that are visibly on the edge. The Rosberg/Hamilton duel has been one of the best head to heads in recent memory. And thanks to the new regs the cars are on the limit again and a pleasure to watch. I haven't enjoyed a season this much for a long time. More power than grip seems to be the key.

Merc would have disallowed Hamilton's switch to 1-stop in Britain, due to intra-team policy... they want both drivers to do the same number of pit-stops in a race, but they will still be allowed to swap the order of the compound used... link to one of the articles on that topic: http://www.grandprix247.com/2014/07/15/ ... trategies/

Thanks, hadn't seen that. Shame.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by egnat69 »

pokerman wrote:So basically the drivers do not really have 100% freedom to race one another if Mercedes would have forced Hamilton into a second pitstop even though it was not needed

that's what i meant to say... merc say they treat their drivers equally but actually they are just trying to prevent a fallout... if we aren't talking about a 100% clone, two drivers will always differ in driving style, preferred setup and therefore things like tyre-wear...

for me, F1 always had to do with strategy... espacially taking risky strategy calls like staying out on slicks in rain or swapping early and so on... also, trying to go on a 1-stop instead of two could be such a call...

mercedes takes that out of the fight, which i think is a shame... they can race each other but the leading one gets the strategy call and the second placed can swap the compound... that just feels not right... it's like two heavy weight boxers slapping each other...
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by pokerman »

I'm always rather cynical with things like this and i think more of wrong team/driver winning, i've watched F1 for a long time now and there has been far worse seasons.

If people think F1 is bad now then in my opinion it's only going to get worse with more gimmicky things being brought forward to improve the show, we already have a double points finale this season, then there is standing start restarts after SC's for next season, and god knows what else is in the pipeline.

Its clear the FIA are targetting the loss of viewers down to Mercedes domination with the banning of FRIC in an effort in my opinion to try and close the performance gap.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by pokerman »

egnat69 wrote:
pokerman wrote:So basically the drivers do not really have 100% freedom to race one another if Mercedes would have forced Hamilton into a second pitstop even though it was not needed

that's what i meant to say... merc say they treat their drivers equally but actually they are just trying to prevent a fallout... if we aren't talking about a 100% clone, two drivers will always differ in driving style, preferred setup and therefore things like tyre-wear...

for me, F1 always had to do with strategy... espacially taking risky strategy calls like staying out on slicks in rain or swapping early and so on... also, trying to go on a 1-stop instead of two could be such a call...

mercedes takes that out of the fight, which i think is a shame... they can race each other but the leading one gets the strategy call and the second placed can swap the compound... that just feels not right... it's like two heavy weight boxers slapping each other...

Yep they say the drivers can race one another but basically all the dice are rolled in favour of the driver that leads after the first lap.
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by LKS1 »

egnat69 wrote:
pokerman wrote:So basically the drivers do not really have 100% freedom to race one another if Mercedes would have forced Hamilton into a second pitstop even though it was not needed

that's what i meant to say... merc say they treat their drivers equally but actually they are just trying to prevent a fallout... if we aren't talking about a 100% clone, two drivers will always differ in driving style, preferred setup and therefore things like tyre-wear...

for me, F1 always had to do with strategy... espacially taking risky strategy calls like staying out on slicks in rain or swapping early and so on... also, trying to go on a 1-stop instead of two could be such a call...

mercedes takes that out of the fight, which i think is a shame... they can race each other but the leading one gets the strategy call and the second placed can swap the compound... that just feels not right... it's like two heavy weight boxers slapping each other...

Exactly. Its not in Merc's interest to risk them taking each other out.

But Merc are allowing the drivers to use different strategies - partly as a way to keep them apart from each other I suspect!

As the Merc is the only car capable of winning the WDC this season, its obviously going to be less interesting than when there are 2 or 3 teams/drivers fighting for the WDC. But it appears from this thread that a few of us have been losing our enthusiasm for a number of seasons now.

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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by pokerman »

LKS1 wrote:
egnat69 wrote:
pokerman wrote:So basically the drivers do not really have 100% freedom to race one another if Mercedes would have forced Hamilton into a second pitstop even though it was not needed

that's what i meant to say... merc say they treat their drivers equally but actually they are just trying to prevent a fallout... if we aren't talking about a 100% clone, two drivers will always differ in driving style, preferred setup and therefore things like tyre-wear...

for me, F1 always had to do with strategy... espacially taking risky strategy calls like staying out on slicks in rain or swapping early and so on... also, trying to go on a 1-stop instead of two could be such a call...

mercedes takes that out of the fight, which i think is a shame... they can race each other but the leading one gets the strategy call and the second placed can swap the compound... that just feels not right... it's like two heavy weight boxers slapping each other...

Exactly. Its not in Merc's interest to risk them taking each other out.

But Merc are allowing the drivers to use different strategies - partly as a way to keep them apart from each other I suspect!

As the Merc is the only car capable of winning the WDC this season, its obviously going to be less interesting than when there are 2 or 3 teams/drivers fighting for the WDC. But it appears from this thread that a few of us have been losing our enthusiasm for a number of seasons now.

Exactly the different strategies is merely to keep the cars apart rather than really letting the drivers race one another
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Re: Loss of viewers - Loss of interest but why?

Post by dirtysurfer »

For me, I think, interest wanes because:

Not all races are live (Non-Sky UK viewer). I have Sky TV, but to add the sports pack is more than I want to pay to watch F1. I have no interest in football, rugby, cricket, etc so the price for a single channel is too high to justify.
This also has the effect that I cannot run live timing with most races now (also being older with a family I record and watch in the evening), so the fun of watching the gaps has gone.

Lack of personality. We used to have great personalities up and down the grid. Not just drivers, but team owners/managers such as Paul Stoddart, Dave Richards, Ross Brawn, Eddie Jordan had interesting things to say after the race. Now it all feels like pre-rehearsed PR speak and seems to lack passion and true opinion.

Processional and predictable racing. I used to like that a wild card could be thrown through equipment failure. It meant that the race wasn't over until the last lap. We often now see everything settle after the last pit stop (although not always recently).

I still enjoy F1, but I think it now has too much of a corporate feel to it.

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