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POBRatings wrote:Paulsf1fix is right, driving for McLaren under Ron was/is always tough. Lauda reckoned after he'd won the 1984 WDC, Ron got him back throughout 1985, for demanding and getting such a high salary to join McLaren back in 1982! Ron is also prone to driver favouritism: Hakkinen against DC, against Alonso, but perhaps understandably in 2007.

All this and what Ron said to Montoya would not have helped the team. I'm still trying to find out: in 2006 was Monty fired or did he walk out? Anyone know?

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

POBRatings wrote:Paulsf1fix is right, driving for McLaren under Ron was/is always tough. Lauda reckoned after he'd won the 1984 WDC, Ron got him back throughout 1985, for demanding and getting such a high salary to join McLaren back in 1982! Ron is also prone to driver favouritism: Hakkinen against DC, against Alonso, but perhaps understandably in 2007.

All this and what Ron said to Montoya would not have helped the team. I'm still trying to find out: in 2006 was Monty fired or did he walk out? Anyone know?

I watched the interview Paulsf1 was talking about. Montoya walked out. he was just fed up with politics and the chance for Nascar came from thin air so he took it

Chunky wrote:Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel was, is and likely never will, be anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.

Agree with you about Jenson. Your last sentence seems to be the key: will Ron have more say than Honda, who have worked for years with JB. Sounds as if he's already undermining Jenson.


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Seanie wrote:If I were Jenson I'd take a massive pay cut just to get in the McLaren Honda.

I reckon Ron would sign him in a heartbeat for a year if the money was right, consistency is always a good thing too.

Chunky wrote:Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel wasn't, isn't and likely never will be, anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.


.

POBRatings wrote:

M.Nader -DODZ- wrote:

POBRatings wrote:Paulsf1fix is right, driving for McLaren under Ron was/is always tough. Lauda reckoned after he'd won the 1984 WDC, Ron got him back throughout 1985, for demanding and getting such a high salary to join McLaren back in 1982! Ron is also prone to driver favouritism: Hakkinen against DC, against Alonso, but perhaps understandably in 2007.

All this and what Ron said to Montoya would not have helped the team. I'm still trying to find out: in 2006 was Monty fired or did he walk out? Anyone know?

I watched the interview Paulsf1 was talking about. Montoya walked out. he was just fed up with politics and the chance for Nascar came from thin air so he took it

Thanks for that M.Nader. Pity Monty was so impulsive; same when he walked out of Williams. I really liked his abilty and style and think he was a great loss to F1.

Some fun: sure he'd have calmed the McLaren waters in 2007 if he'd stayed?

AravJ wrote:The issue with Jenson is that he does not out perform the car. Most people here is in agreement that if Maclaren give him a good car he will show results (which is true), but that is what you would expect from an average F1 driver.
What Maclaren need is a star, that out performs the car in difficult times, inspiring the team to do better.

froze wrote:Do or do not, there is no try.

froze wrote:

Seanie wrote:If I were Jenson I'd take a massive pay cut just to get in the McLaren Honda.

I reckon Ron would sign him in a heartbeat for a year if the money was right, consistency is always a good thing too.

I don't think a couple of mils on driver budget is something that makes a huge difference for Mclaren. If Ron has decided that he wants to replace Button, why would he change his mind just for a pay cut?

Chunky wrote:Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel wasn't, isn't and likely never will be, anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.


.

froze wrote:

Seanie wrote:If I were Jenson I'd take a massive pay cut just to get in the McLaren Honda.

I reckon Ron would sign him in a heartbeat for a year if the money was right, consistency is always a good thing too.

I don't think a couple of mils on driver budget is something that makes a huge difference for Mclaren. If Ron has decided that he wants to replace Button, why would he change his mind just for a pay cut?

Pest44 wrote:

Chunky wrote:Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel wasn't, isn't and likely never will be, anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.


.

Well button is very big in Japan due to having a Japanese girlfriend and driving for Honda in the past. So of they wanted to have a driver for market reasons they would probably keep button. I don't believe macca will be pressured in to getting a driver for market reasons. They will get the best driver line up possible so they can start winning again.

POBRatings wrote:

Chunky wrote:Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel was, is and likely never will, be anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.

Agree with you about Jenson. Your last sentence seems to be the key: will Ron have more say than Honda, who have worked for years with JB. Sounds as if he's already undermining Jenson.


.

Volantary wrote:Mclaren need to sort themselves out. If they build a good car, Jenson will bring home the points. If they want someone with more speed in the other car go for it, but they need a consistent points scorer in the other. If they had two Perez's last year they'd have had many less points than they actually scored.

In 2012 Button and Hamilton looked like a very strong lineup, the guy hasn't lost all his speed in 2 years.

Zoue wrote:

POBRatings wrote:

Chunky wrote:Jenson is on his way out. I've been saying that ever since the Honda engine deal was announced. The one year contract pretty much confirmed it for me.

To my mind, it's madness. You need a mature, capable, analytical driver to help develop a new car, which is effectively what's going to happen next year at McLaren. The Jenson versus Kevin results illustrate that. Unfortunately, Daniel whupping Seb has pretty much contradicted that - people forget that Vettel was, is and likely never will, be anything but a very capable point and squirt driver.

One of next year's Macca drivers will be either Japanese, or from a country where Honda has a big presence or marketing opportunity.

Remember that Jenson was brought in by Whitmarsh, so Ron has no great connection there. Ron's just getting his post-event justification in early.

Agree with you about Jenson. Your last sentence seems to be the key: will Ron have more say than Honda, who have worked for years with JB. Sounds as if he's already undermining Jenson.


.

Honda never showed any inclination to put a Japanese driver in before, either with Lotus with Senna in the early 80s, Williams when Piquet was there or McLaren/Lotus with Senna/Piquet again after that. They tend to associate with the big drivers as a policy. They are pragmatic and will be looking for a winner, not a nationality IMO.

I believe they will try very hard to get either Alonso or Lewis, as these two look the most likely to get the best out of a car even when it doesn't suit them. There are already rumours linking both to McLaren and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Honda were a driving force behind that. Jenson is a very capable driver IMO but doesn't appear to have that extra something to lift an average car. Thing is, beyond the two already mentioned I'm not sure who else would be a step up? McLaren have already tried twice at least to lure Kimi back and I don't think it will happen again; besides, he's also having issues at Ferrari. Vettel's a possibility but again he's being outperformed by his new team mate and doesn't look 100% comfortable, so would he be better than Button? Jury's out for me. Rosberg looks fairly set at Mercedes. Hulk can best be described as solid. Perez has been there done that (and is perhaps a little too erratic). Grosjean is not quite the finished article etc etc. Who else stands out that you'd say would be a definite improvement that Honda would insist on?

Simon1969 wrote:Do people really think Lewis would go back to McLaren? I just don't see it myself.

Jenson and Kamui would be perfect for the marketing side of things.

Zoue wrote: Honda never showed any inclination to put a Japanese driver in before, either with Lotus with Senna in the early 80s, Williams when Piquet was there or McLaren/Lotus with Senna/Piquet again after that. ""......

Zoue wrote:I believe they will try very hard to get either Alonso or Lewis, as these two look the most likely to get the best out of a car even when it doesn't suit them.

Volantary wrote:Mclaren need to sort themselves out. If they build a good car, Jenson will bring home the points. If they want someone with more speed in the other car go for it, but they need a consistent points scorer in the other. If they had two Perez's last year they'd have had many less points than they actually scored.

In 2012 Button and Hamilton looked like a very strong lineup, the guy hasn't lost all his speed in 2 years.

Seanie wrote:

Zoue wrote:I believe they will try very hard to get either Alonso or Lewis, as these two look the most likely to get the best out of a car even when it doesn't suit them.

For 2015?

What are you smoking?

Zoue wrote:

Seanie wrote:

Zoue wrote:I believe they will try very hard to get either Alonso or Lewis, as these two look the most likely to get the best out of a car even when it doesn't suit them.

For 2015?

What are you smoking?

I didn't say they would succeed, but they will definitely try. If Ferrari continues to tank they may well have a chance with Alonso, but it's a very small one. Can't see Lewis leaving Mercedes though

kleefton wrote:Umm....Ron, last I've checked. Jenson has been consistently beating Magnussen this year in race pace and qualifying?
Is Ron on drugs? Jeez...

Chaincase wrote:

Volantary wrote:Mclaren need to sort themselves out. If they build a good car, Jenson will bring home the points. If they want someone with more speed in the other car go for it, but they need a consistent points scorer in the other. If they had two Perez's last year they'd have had many less points than they actually scored.

In 2012 Button and Hamilton looked like a very strong lineup, the guy hasn't lost all his speed in 2 years.

Well I'm sure Ron has analysed 2012 and seen that without the non-driving factors Lewis toasted Jenson in 2012 to the tune of 150 points or so. Now Rosberg is looking closer than that, making JB some way down the totem pole, below LH, NR, DR, SV, and FA at least. Probably add KR and NH to that list and even wondering about Perez after all perhaps.

So at best JB is a No2, for Ron. And if JB is beating Kev then clearly McLaren's driver lineup isn't top drawer and he'll be trying to replace one of them. If only he can, of course. Meanwhile he can only try a kick up the backside.

5ANDYm wrote:So is this Jensen's last call before the retirement boot arrive's ?

I feel this is ron letting him know his time is up.

HERES THE LINK
http://www.gptoday.com/details/view/492 ... ry_harder/

Chaincase wrote:

Volantary wrote:Mclaren need to sort themselves out. If they build a good car, Jenson will bring home the points. If they want someone with more speed in the other car go for it, but they need a consistent points scorer in the other. If they had two Perez's last year they'd have had many less points than they actually scored.

In 2012 Button and Hamilton looked like a very strong lineup, the guy hasn't lost all his speed in 2 years.

Well I'm sure Ron has analysed 2012 and seen that without the non-driving factors Lewis toasted Jenson in 2012 to the tune of 150 points or so. Now Rosberg is looking closer than that, making JB some way down the totem pole, below LH, NR, DR, SV, and FA at least. Probably add KR and NH to that list and even wondering about Perez after all perhaps.

So at best JB is a No2, for Ron. And if JB is beating Kev then clearly McLaren's driver lineup isn't top drawer and he'll be trying to replace one of them. If only he can, of course. Meanwhile he can only try a kick up the backside.