Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

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Aussie Grit
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Aussie Grit »

That was certainly an interesting read guys.
Supporting Alonso, Ricciardo and Hulk.

Find it hard to resist responding to stupid posts.

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bourbon19
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by bourbon19 »

Peter77 wrote:
gregwil wrote:I am beginning to warm, ever so slightly, to Ricciardo, I do think that he is driving exceptionally well and is beating Seb in a straight fight. At first I did think that it was all down to Seb having less track time with all of the issues he has had but recently Ricciardo has really been impressive, his whole weekend at Germany was exceptional. I do however think that it is largely due to the fact that he is more suited to this year's car than Seb is and I doubt very much if he would have matched Seb in the past 5 years as those years the Red Bull car and Seb were the perfect match of car and driver and no-one would have beaten Seb in that car.

This year does not in any way reflect badly on Seb it is rather a great reflection on Ricciardo as he is matching and even beating probably the best driver of this generation, I think that this guy is currently the hungriest driver out there and is out to prove himself more than any other driver and he is doing a fantastic job of it. At the moment I have no doubt if you put him in the Mercedes alongside Hamilton he would be beating him hands down and if you had to put him in the Ferrari alongside Alonso provided he was given equal equipment and an equal opportunity he would at the very least match Alonso, although he would beat Alonso in qualifying and therefore probably beat him throughout.

Having said that I have a theory that the current difference between Seb and Ricciardo is mainly due to the way they are setting up their cars, I may be wrong but this is my theory. I think that Seb is setting his car up to maximise the downforce and thereby sacrificing some straight line speed, his strength has always been in getting through slower corners faster than others and it has to do with the way he goes into and gets out of the corners. Ricciardo on the other hand may be sacrificing a little bit of downforce and maximising the straight line speed of the car and maybe this is the better way to go with this years cars, we all know that this year is all about straight line speed rather than cornering ability. I think if you look at the times through speed traps that these guys are setting as well as the different sector times at each of the tracks it does appear to show that this may be the case. I think on every track Ricciardo has been faster through the speed traps, sometimes it is very minimal and then on other tracks, such as Germany, he is 3 or 4 kms/hr faster which could probably prove quite significant around a lap when you are talking fractions of time in difference. Then if you look at different sector times Seb generally appears to be quicker in sectors with the twisty bits and Ricciardo is generally faster in the sectors with the long straights, it would also explain why Seb has almost always been faster in the wet qualifying sessions. But as I said this is merely a theory, I could be wrong however if it is so I do think that Seb will continue to try to attempt to maximise the downforce as he knows that this is where his strength lies and if he gets it right I do think that he will ultimately beat Ricciardo. I do hope they both keep doing what they are currently doing as they are both doing it very well and are providing loads of excitement on the tracks.
:thumbdown:

So many myths and rumors keep being propagated which I do not believe.

1. Vettel is not suited to this years car and is having an off year.

Last year Webber was very old and not on form at all as we are seeing now. Vettel did not have to push much and easily win and come out on top. He basically cruised the car home on auto pilot as it was that quick. We all remember the Hamilton comment of him missing 3 apexes and still getting pole the redbull was that quick.
This year he now has Ricciardo with faster telemetry and a faster benchmark in the team. Vettel is now pushing alot harder to match him and trying alot harder. It is logical to assume Vettel is driving at his absolute peak and stepped up his game from last year. When he sees Webber in qualy slower everywhere he assumed he did a good lap and cruises home.
When you are in Qualy and Ricciardo is quicker at almost every single corner and sector, then Vettel will use that telemtry and go faster and set a faster Qualy time with his engineers.
It is ludicrous to suggest that having a faster team mate will not help you get faster as well and to match him.

Vettel is still 27. Schumacher, Senna and all the top drivers also drove alot better at these ages as these are the golden years for an F1 driver. The late 20s. Late 30s like Webber drivers get slower and usually retire.
Vettel is in his absolute golden years of driving this year. He was 26 now 27 recently and he is in team 4 WDC Vettel and he has the high of just winning 4 WDC. Nothing to suggest at all he is not at his absolute peak this year.
Vettel this year is driving alot faster than last year as he has a new team mate to push him.
This myth he is driving slower this year and not adapting has to be put to rest.
He just is not as quick as Ricciardo. Not much else to it.

2. Ricciardo could not have won in the exhuast blown diffuser car as somehow it so magical and difficult to drive only Vettel could master it as he is the ultimate master and adaptor of F1 cars.

And no top driver nobody else could master it. Not even Alonso or Hamilton or Rosberg for that matter. Ye right!!!!

If any of these guys were team mates with Vettel at redbull last 4 years all these guys would have easily beaten Vettel and won 4 championships back to back I believe. These 3 especially are the top drivers in the sport and all alot quicker than Vettel. They are all on another level compared to vettel in speed and always have been.

in 2010 Ricciardo was a total F1 rookie at the young drivers test in abu dhabi.
On day 1 he was the only driver who managed to break into the 1.39s.
He came within .2 seconds of the Vettel's Redbull Qualy time on day 1

Mclaren test driver 1.2 seconds off the pace of top driver.
Ferrari test driver 4 seconds off the pace of top driver.
Force India test driver .4 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Williams test driver 1.3 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Renault test driver 1.1 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Torro Rosso test driver .7 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Mercedes test driver 2.4 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Sauber test driver .7 seconds off the pace of top driver time.

Day 2 the track got alot quicker and times started tumbling as the track rubbered in and drivers adapted to the car hence why we shall leave it out so as not to confuse people.

I'm just using day 1 as an example to show what happened when you threw in a 21 year old Ricciardo in Vettel's car on day 1 and seeing how quick him and the other rookies adapted to the cars in just 1 day only.
It is a good example to see what rookies can do after just 1 day.
Day 2 obviously they are adapting and getting faster which is not the point of this comparison at all.
Let's just look at instant day 1 adaption with minimal running time.

Ricciardo came the closest out of any driver to beating the star driver out of all the top teams in Qualy with only .2 second gap.
Ricciardo adapted to the exhuast blown diffuser very very very quick. He adapted quicker than any other rookie.
Which goes to show the exhuast blown diffuser car is the easiest car to adapt to and anybody can as you can get on the throttle early as the car is stuck to the ground giving more stability on acceleration and through corners etc.
The myth here is that it is harder to control and nobody but Vettel the magician can adapt to it. ye right.
More downforce = more grip and easier to drive which is why Ricciardo adapted so quick in 1 day.
That myth needs to be put to bed once and for all.
If rookies can adapt to exhuast blown diffuser cars so so so quick.
Then why would anybody who follows F1 assume Rosberg , Hamilton, Alonso the 3 fastest drivers in F1 with years of experience could not adapt to it? It is beyond ridiculous to even contemplate yet I have heard this comment thrown around 1000s of times in this forum over the last 4 years. Vettel mastered the exhuast blown diffuser car and nobody else could as every other driver cannot adapt to cars at all. Only vettel the magician can
Ricciardo mastered it in 1 day and mastered it quicker than any other rookie driving non exhuast blown diffuser cars in just 1 day.

If Ricciardo adapted in 1 day imagine what would happen in a few weeks working with the engineers.
Well that question has been answered this year.
If you threw in Alonso or Hamilton or Rosberg who are very experienced drivers into the redbull in 1 day they would easily hands down beat Vettel the last 4 years with 4 titles back to back. Not to mention many other drivers on the grid who are also very very fast like Hulkenburg and Button and now Bottas.

Ricciardo was always alot quicker than Vettel even back form 2010.
Vettel is quick yes. But Ricciardo is extremely quick.
I do not see Vettel being able to beat him over an entire season ever no matter what the car. V12, V10, V8, V6 exhuast blown diffuser, non exhuast blown diffuser, turbo, non turbo, 6 wheel car, fan car etc
Ricciardo is just plain quicker.
Even in Germany Ricciardo qualified .3 seconds quicker yet again. The gap has been fairly consistant all year and will continue like this.
You pose a lot of conundrums, but provide no answers.

It is not true that only Vettel among the top drivers adapted to the EBD. Hamilton adapted just fine - Lewis/Macca was fastest in 2012 and if he hadn't had reliability issues and team errors, he would have had too many points for either Alonso or Vettel to overcome. Kimi and Grosjean also master it - Kimi moreso, and was quick as a whip in the Lotus. And Mark of course. So other drivers did, but Vettel and Red Bull were the most consistently on it.

We see this year that consistency is an important, even with the best car. If the team, car or the driver is not consistent, the championship becomes a lot more work.

This season, some drivers are having more difficulty than others with the formula, but since Barcelona, Vettel has been improving with it. Your example fails. You should realize that consistency was again the Villain in Germany. Vettel's S1 and S2 were significantly faster in the two laps prior to the final one - making up the distance to his teammate. So there was more going on than lack of speed. Every driver went faster, Vettel went slower. That is not an excuse, he had no business going slower - but the point is, the speed was there, he just didn't extract it in that lap. (check live timing - McLaren website keeps a record).

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Chunky »

Peter77 wrote:.......................
I think you said something I agree with, but I lost the will to live reading it all.


.

gregwil
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by gregwil »

Peter77 wrote:
gregwil wrote:I am beginning to warm, ever so slightly, to Ricciardo, I do think that he is driving exceptionally well and is beating Seb in a straight fight. At first I did think that it was all down to Seb having less track time with all of the issues he has had but recently Ricciardo has really been impressive, his whole weekend at Germany was exceptional. I do however think that it is largely due to the fact that he is more suited to this year's car than Seb is and I doubt very much if he would have matched Seb in the past 5 years as those years the Red Bull car and Seb were the perfect match of car and driver and no-one would have beaten Seb in that car.

This year does not in any way reflect badly on Seb it is rather a great reflection on Ricciardo as he is matching and even beating probably the best driver of this generation, I think that this guy is currently the hungriest driver out there and is out to prove himself more than any other driver and he is doing a fantastic job of it. At the moment I have no doubt if you put him in the Mercedes alongside Hamilton he would be beating him hands down and if you had to put him in the Ferrari alongside Alonso provided he was given equal equipment and an equal opportunity he would at the very least match Alonso, although he would beat Alonso in qualifying and therefore probably beat him throughout.

Having said that I have a theory that the current difference between Seb and Ricciardo is mainly due to the way they are setting up their cars, I may be wrong but this is my theory. I think that Seb is setting his car up to maximise the downforce and thereby sacrificing some straight line speed, his strength has always been in getting through slower corners faster than others and it has to do with the way he goes into and gets out of the corners. Ricciardo on the other hand may be sacrificing a little bit of downforce and maximising the straight line speed of the car and maybe this is the better way to go with this years cars, we all know that this year is all about straight line speed rather than cornering ability. I think if you look at the times through speed traps that these guys are setting as well as the different sector times at each of the tracks it does appear to show that this may be the case. I think on every track Ricciardo has been faster through the speed traps, sometimes it is very minimal and then on other tracks, such as Germany, he is 3 or 4 kms/hr faster which could probably prove quite significant around a lap when you are talking fractions of time in difference. Then if you look at different sector times Seb generally appears to be quicker in sectors with the twisty bits and Ricciardo is generally faster in the sectors with the long straights, it would also explain why Seb has almost always been faster in the wet qualifying sessions. But as I said this is merely a theory, I could be wrong however if it is so I do think that Seb will continue to try to attempt to maximise the downforce as he knows that this is where his strength lies and if he gets it right I do think that he will ultimately beat Ricciardo. I do hope they both keep doing what they are currently doing as they are both doing it very well and are providing loads of excitement on the tracks.
:thumbdown:

So many myths and rumors keep being propagated which I do not believe.

1. Vettel is not suited to this years car and is having an off year.

Last year Webber was very old and not on form at all as we are seeing now. Vettel did not have to push much and easily win and come out on top. He basically cruised the car home on auto pilot as it was that quick. We all remember the Hamilton comment of him missing 3 apexes and still getting pole the redbull was that quick.
This year he now has Ricciardo with faster telemetry and a faster benchmark in the team. Vettel is now pushing alot harder to match him and trying alot harder. It is logical to assume Vettel is driving at his absolute peak and stepped up his game from last year. When he sees Webber in qualy slower everywhere he assumed he did a good lap and cruises home.
When you are in Qualy and Ricciardo is quicker at almost every single corner and sector, then Vettel will use that telemtry and go faster and set a faster Qualy time with his engineers.
It is ludicrous to suggest that having a faster team mate will not help you get faster as well and to match him.

Vettel is still 27. Schumacher, Senna and all the top drivers also drove alot better at these ages as these are the golden years for an F1 driver. The late 20s. Late 30s like Webber drivers get slower and usually retire.
Vettel is in his absolute golden years of driving this year. He was 26 now 27 recently and he is in team 4 WDC Vettel and he has the high of just winning 4 WDC. Nothing to suggest at all he is not at his absolute peak this year.
Vettel this year is driving alot faster than last year as he has a new team mate to push him.
This myth he is driving slower this year and not adapting has to be put to rest.
He just is not as quick as Ricciardo. Not much else to it.

2. Ricciardo could not have won in the exhuast blown diffuser car as somehow it so magical and difficult to drive only Vettel could master it as he is the ultimate master and adaptor of F1 cars.

And no top driver nobody else could master it. Not even Alonso or Hamilton or Rosberg for that matter. Ye right!!!!

If any of these guys were team mates with Vettel at redbull last 4 years all these guys would have easily beaten Vettel and won 4 championships back to back I believe. These 3 especially are the top drivers in the sport and all alot quicker than Vettel. They are all on another level compared to vettel in speed and always have been.

in 2010 Ricciardo was a total F1 rookie at the young drivers test in abu dhabi.
On day 1 he was the only driver who managed to break into the 1.39s.
He came within .2 seconds of the Vettel's Redbull Qualy time on day 1

Mclaren test driver 1.2 seconds off the pace of top driver.
Ferrari test driver 4 seconds off the pace of top driver.
Force India test driver .4 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Williams test driver 1.3 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Renault test driver 1.1 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Torro Rosso test driver .7 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Mercedes test driver 2.4 seconds off the pace of top driver time.
Sauber test driver .7 seconds off the pace of top driver time.

Day 2 the track got alot quicker and times started tumbling as the track rubbered in and drivers adapted to the car hence why we shall leave it out so as not to confuse people.

I'm just using day 1 as an example to show what happened when you threw in a 21 year old Ricciardo in Vettel's car on day 1 and seeing how quick him and the other rookies adapted to the cars in just 1 day only.
It is a good example to see what rookies can do after just 1 day.
Day 2 obviously they are adapting and getting faster which is not the point of this comparison at all.
Let's just look at instant day 1 adaption with minimal running time.

Ricciardo came the closest out of any driver to beating the star driver out of all the top teams in Qualy with only .2 second gap.
Ricciardo adapted to the exhuast blown diffuser very very very quick. He adapted quicker than any other rookie.
Which goes to show the exhuast blown diffuser car is the easiest car to adapt to and anybody can as you can get on the throttle early as the car is stuck to the ground giving more stability on acceleration and through corners etc.
The myth here is that it is harder to control and nobody but Vettel the magician can adapt to it. ye right.
More downforce = more grip and easier to drive which is why Ricciardo adapted so quick in 1 day.
That myth needs to be put to bed once and for all.
If rookies can adapt to exhuast blown diffuser cars so so so quick.
Then why would anybody who follows F1 assume Rosberg , Hamilton, Alonso the 3 fastest drivers in F1 with years of experience could not adapt to it? It is beyond ridiculous to even contemplate yet I have heard this comment thrown around 1000s of times in this forum over the last 4 years. Vettel mastered the exhuast blown diffuser car and nobody else could as every other driver cannot adapt to cars at all. Only vettel the magician can
Ricciardo mastered it in 1 day and mastered it quicker than any other rookie driving non exhuast blown diffuser cars in just 1 day.

If Ricciardo adapted in 1 day imagine what would happen in a few weeks working with the engineers.
Well that question has been answered this year.
If you threw in Alonso or Hamilton or Rosberg who are very experienced drivers into the redbull in 1 day they would easily hands down beat Vettel the last 4 years with 4 titles back to back. Not to mention many other drivers on the grid who are also very very fast like Hulkenburg and Button and now Bottas.

Ricciardo was always alot quicker than Vettel even back form 2010.
Vettel is quick yes. But Ricciardo is extremely quick.
I do not see Vettel being able to beat him over an entire season ever no matter what the car. V12, V10, V8, V6 exhuast blown diffuser, non exhuast blown diffuser, turbo, non turbo, 6 wheel car, fan car etc
Ricciardo is just plain quicker.
Even in Germany Ricciardo qualified .3 seconds quicker yet again. The gap has been fairly consistant all year and will continue like this.
I am not suggesting that Seb was the only driver who mastered the EBD, I am sure that a lot of the drivers did, it is just that the Red Bull and Seb were a perfect match of car and driver and I doubt that anyone would have beaten him in that car. Then again this is purely speculation based on what I have read and seen, Peter Windsor did a good piece on how Vettel maximised his speed through and whilst exiting slower corners, but there is no way of knowing either way; you are also merely speculating that he would have been beaten by other top drivers there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that this would have been the case.

Do the times in the YDT actually mean much? I don't normally pay much attention to these times as I truely don't know if they do mean a hell of a lot in the general scheme of things. During Qualy the cars are set up for the race, they are carrying race fuel etc whereas Ricciardo's time could have been set with the car maximised for one lap performance and with minimal fuel in the car. Track conditions could have been different, Seb's fastest time may also not have even been set in Q3 he could have set a faster time in one of the other sessions, there are so many variables but I don't know as I said becuase I don't pay too much attention to these times.

You have in fact actually provided us with enough proof that these times do not mean much. You state that Ricciardo was 0.2sec slower than Seb while the YDT Ferrari driver was 4 sec slower than the fastest Ferrari driver, need I elaborate....? Are you suggesting that Ricciardo was almost 4 sec quicker than the Ferrari driver? Why would Ferrari use such a slow driver, surely they want the maximum out of the car, or maybe there were other reasons? Or are you in fact suggesting that the Ferrari is in real terms almost 4 sec slower than the Red Bull and Alonso and Massa made up the difference? If this is the case then Seb and Webber have/had no place being in F1 if they are that slow? You see where I am going with this, the times you have provided us with do not in any way provide clear evidence that Ricciardo would have matched Seb in the previous 5 years. Maybe the times do suggest that he is quick, but I think we know that anyway and Webber was no slouch either he was only made to look like one by Seb.

I have suggested a theory based on what I know combined with information such as measured top speeds as well as some track sector times, admittedly there is minimal information available due to various factors, and I have come to a conclusion which may be not too illogical. You have countered with an argument based on, largely pointless, YDT results combined with speculation and an opinion which is quite possibly somewhat biased based on your dislike of Seb. My theory could be completely wrong but if it is accurate it could also explain a number of things. What you say here is complete nonsense -
Peter77 wrote:When you are in Qualy and Ricciardo is quicker at almost every single corner and sector, then Vettel will use that telemtry and go faster and set a faster Qualy time with his engineers.
- becuase Vettel is probably more often faster in the first part of the sessions and then is beaten by Ricciardo at the end so if anything it would be Ricciardo using Seb's telemtry although I don't think that that is the case either anyway.

Oh just BTW I have to mention this - I love the way you guys have suddenly promoted Rosberg to one of the top three drivers now that he is beating Hamilton, before this he was never mentioned in the top three; have to love your reasoning. My top three are Vettel and Alonso in that order with Hamilton a fair way behind them (and going backwards) and then Ricciardo starting to show potential for the future. Rosberg has showed nothing that makes him top three material, he is just beating Hamilton becuase Hamilton is getting worse.
Last edited by gregwil on Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by pokerman »

Apart from his rookie season Rosberg had always beat his teammates before the arrival of Hamilton, this included a 7xWDC but apparently that didn't count because he was too old, but Vettel's beating of Webber is proof enough of how good he is.

Vettel indeed was the King of the EBD, but then again it does kind of help when you have the best EBD car at your disposal.
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Covalent »

Peter77 wrote:Ricciardo is just plain quicker.
Even in Germany Ricciardo qualified .3 seconds quicker yet again. The gap has been fairly consistant all year and will continue like this.
oops

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by gregwil »

pokerman wrote:Apart from his rookie season Rosberg had always beat his teammates before the arrival of Hamilton, this included a 7xWDC but apparently that didn't count because he was too old, but Vettel's beating of Webber is proof enough of how good he is.

Vettel indeed was the King of the EBD, but then again it does kind of help when you have the best EBD car at your disposal.
You don't think it's because Seb is a 4 x WDC that could be a little bit of proof how good he is? When Rosberg has a at least one WDC maybe then he could be considered in the top tier due to other factors.
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by gregwil »

Covalent wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Ricciardo is just plain quicker.
Even in Germany Ricciardo qualified .3 seconds quicker yet again. The gap has been fairly consistant all year and will continue like this.
oops
:thumbup:

A track with no real straights and Seb was the quicker driver in every single sector even though Ricciardo was still nearly 2km/hr faster through the speed trap, maybe my theory is not far off or maybe Seb is just quicker on a track with corners. :D
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

gregwil wrote:
pokerman wrote:Apart from his rookie season Rosberg had always beat his teammates before the arrival of Hamilton, this included a 7xWDC but apparently that didn't count because he was too old, but Vettel's beating of Webber is proof enough of how good he is.

Vettel indeed was the King of the EBD, but then again it does kind of help when you have the best EBD car at your disposal.
You don't think it's because Seb is a 4 x WDC that could be a little bit of proof how good he is? When Rosberg has a at least one WDC maybe then he could be considered in the top tier due to other factors.
Personally i think the 4xWDCs flatters Vettel.

A number of drivers could probably have won 4 WDC's in those Red Bulls, and they probably wouldn't have made such hard work of 2010 and 2012. Alonso and Hamilton would probably have won 2009 too.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by silkjet »

Watch it everyone. Vettel has out qualified Riicciardo- and the crowing has started.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Mr-E »

gregwil wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Ricciardo is just plain quicker.
Even in Germany Ricciardo qualified .3 seconds quicker yet again. The gap has been fairly consistant all year and will continue like this.
oops
:thumbup:

A track with no real straights and Seb was the quicker driver in every single sector even though Ricciardo was still nearly 2km/hr faster through the speed trap, maybe my theory is not far off or maybe Seb is just quicker on a track with corners. :D
Maybe Vettel should go to Nascar? No straights most of the time. ;)
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by gregwil »

silkjet wrote:Watch it everyone. Vettel has out qualified Riicciardo- and the crowing has started.
You say that as if it is the first time Seb has outqualified Ricciardo.

Here are the actual facts

No of events = 11
No of events Seb has not made Q3 = 4 (all of these due to car issues)

No of events neither has had car issues = 7
No of these events Seb has beaten Ricciardo = 4
No of these events Ricciardo has beaten Seb = 3

Last time I was taught maths 4 was > 3

It's no big deal that Seb has beaten him AGAIN.

These are the real facts, you may taint them by saying that it is 7 to 4 to Ricciardo in a straight fight but you would only be kidding yourself.
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

gregwil wrote:
silkjet wrote:Watch it everyone. Vettel has out qualified Riicciardo- and the crowing has started.
You say that as if it is the first time Seb has outqualified Ricciardo.

Here are the actual facts

No of events = 11
No of events Seb has not made Q3 = 4 (all of these due to car issues)

No of events neither has had car issues = 7
No of these events Seb has beaten Ricciardo = 4
No of these events Ricciardo has beaten Seb = 3

Last time I was taught maths 4 was > 3

It's no big deal that Seb has beaten him AGAIN.

These are the real facts, you may taint them by saying that it is 7 to 4 to Ricciardo in a straight fight but you would only be kidding yourself.
It is 7-4. It's you who's kidding yourself by thinking it's 4-3. :lol:

Seb didn't make Q3 in Austria and there was no car issue.

Anyway your bias is quite clear. You include the following qualifyings in your count:
1. Malaysia (Ricciardo had a fuel sensor issue all weekend).
2. Silverstone (Ricciardo was kept in the pits by the team).
3. Hungary (Ricciardo had a broken rear wing in Q3).

Yet you decide to discount all the qualifying sessions where Vettel had issues.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

It's worth noting that Ricciardo was beaten at the Hungaroring in qualifying in 2011 and 2012 by Liuzzi and Vergne respectively. I don't think it's his strongest track.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by joshb »

Or Vergne and Liuzzi (who outqualified rookie Vettel there) are Hungary specialists

and it's not even Vettel's best track!

hopefully this is the start of the resurgence and not just the one off, but since we got into Europe, except Austria, Seb has been right there, just without the rub of the green until Hockenheim when he got fortunate
In India, he won it 4 times :)
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

joshb wrote:Or Vergne and Liuzzi (who outqualified rookie Vettel there) are Hungary specialists

and it's not even Vettel's best track!

hopefully this is the start of the resurgence and not just the one off, but since we got into Europe, except Austria, Seb has been right there, just without the rub of the green until Hockenheim when he got fortunate
Vettel may not have won here in the past, but he's always had the measure of Webber there.

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Juzzy82
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Juzzy82 »

Did Ricciardo have a broken rear wing in qual? I haven't read that anywhere yet...

Anyway at the start of the season I thought Ricciardo would be doing very well just to out do Vettel a couple of times in the season and not be far behind him for the rest so at the moment even if Ricciardo does get beaten here and there it is still an amazing job considering he has come into a team pretty much built around Vettel.

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Toby.
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Toby. »

davidheath461 wrote:It's worth noting that Ricciardo was beaten at the Hungaroring in qualifying in 2011 and 2012 by Liuzzi and Vergne respectively. I don't think it's his strongest track.
On the contrary, his drive here in 2010 in FR3.5 was one of the strongest drives I've ever seen by anybody in any series. Pole, fastest lap, led every lap. But what was remarkable was that on every lap but one he set the fastest time of anybody on the track that time around.

Seb was just quicker on Saturday, that's all. Hopefully they'll be close to each other on the track sometime in the race. We've been waiting for a battle between the two all season.
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F1yer
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by F1yer »

joshb wrote:Or Vergne and Liuzzi (who outqualified rookie Vettel there) are Hungary specialists

and it's not even Vettel's best track!

hopefully this is the start of the resurgence and not just the one off, but since we got into Europe, except Austria, Seb has been right there, just without the rub of the green until Hockenheim when he got fortunate

I think that may be the case... I m expecting a good result from sebi here esp as lewis is out.

And after Europe, Asia is his territory anyway.... 4 is too large a number to be a fluke..

Although I m just not ready to count Dan out yet...

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purchville
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by purchville »

Juzzy82 wrote:Did Ricciardo have a broken rear wing in qual? I haven't read that anywhere yet...

Anyway at the start of the season I thought Ricciardo would be doing very well just to out do Vettel a couple of times in the season and not be far behind him for the rest so at the moment even if Ricciardo does get beaten here and there it is still an amazing job considering he has come into a team pretty much built around Vettel.
Ricciardo: “We lost a little bit of the rear wing as well, the boys just showed me a piece that fell off during Q3 as well which didn't help our efforts. But anyway, that was pretty much the story today. Better than yesterday but obviously was hoping for a front row after we saw Lewis make an early exit.”

from: http://www.crash.net/f1/news/207119/1/r ... ssues.html
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infi24r
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by infi24r »

I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by mwf1 »

So can Dans rear wing be fixed in parce ferrme before race without penalty

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infi24r
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by infi24r »

mwf1 wrote:So can Dans rear wing be fixed in parce ferrme before race without penalty
Yep. Repairs can be made

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by gregwil »

infi24r wrote:I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.
In the past 5 races he has qualified ahead 3 times this is where the resurgence is coming from and he is getting stronger and stronger, so no it is not just the 1 qualifying session that anyone is basing this on.
Sebastian Vettel - 4 x World Driving Champion!!!

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

gregwil wrote:
infi24r wrote:I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.
In the past 5 races he has qualified ahead 3 times this is where the resurgence is coming from and he is getting stronger and stronger, so no it is not just the 1 qualifying session that anyone is basing this on.
Your only going to make yourself look a fool shouting how good Vettel is from the rooftops after a good qualifying session.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by silkjet »

infi24r wrote:I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.
It is rich. I will be watching the race on RTL (german language). The German commentators almost wet themselves during qualy yesterday when Vettel had provisional pole.

We will see... maybe Vettel has come to grips with the car

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infi24r
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by infi24r »

gregwil wrote:
infi24r wrote:I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.
In the past 5 races he has qualified ahead 3 times this is where the resurgence is coming from and he is getting stronger and stronger, so no it is not just the 1 qualifying session that anyone is basing this on.
Thats good for him, but in one of those sessions Daniel had a damaged car and another one he didn't even get to run.

Not saying Vettel didn't actually perform. But if you cant out qualify your team mate when he's sitting in the garage you'd be worried.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

F1yer wrote:
joshb wrote:Or Vergne and Liuzzi (who outqualified rookie Vettel there) are Hungary specialists

and it's not even Vettel's best track!

hopefully this is the start of the resurgence and not just the one off, but since we got into Europe, except Austria, Seb has been right there, just without the rub of the green until Hockenheim when he got fortunate

I think that may be the case... I m expecting a good result from sebi here esp as lewis is out.

And after Europe, Asia is his territory anyway.... 4 is too large a number to be a fluke..

Although I m just not ready to count Dan out yet...
He generally had the measure of Webber at the Asian tracks, but where was very bad at the Tilke tracks, and lost too much time to Vettel in the slow corners. We'll have to see how Dan does in those tracks - reports from Horner say he is actually very strong in the slow speed corners.

Also, Korea and India (2 of Vettel's most successful tracks) are now gone.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

gregwil wrote:
infi24r wrote:I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.
In the past 5 races he has qualified ahead 3 times this is where the resurgence is coming from and he is getting stronger and stronger, so no it is not just the 1 qualifying session that anyone is basing this on.
selective stats :eek:

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Migen »

infi24r wrote:
gregwil wrote:
infi24r wrote:I love how Vettel finishes ahead in 1 qualifying session which Ricciardo was hindered and suddenly he's having a resurgence.
In the past 5 races he has qualified ahead 3 times this is where the resurgence is coming from and he is getting stronger and stronger, so no it is not just the 1 qualifying session that anyone is basing this on.
Thats good for him, but in one of those sessions Daniel had a damaged car and another one he didn't even get to run.

Not saying Vettel didn't actually perform. But if you cant out qualify your team mate when he's sitting in the garage you'd be worried.
The same can be said for those who count the 2 qualifyings sessions where Vettel had major issues... as if he could have fought to finish ahead of Ricchiardo by pushing the car on foot.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by silkjet »

Meet the new boss- Ricciardo

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by backdoc »

This is about to get interesting............

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by hotbmw »

Ricciardo is the teams number 1 driver now. With another victory in the next race and a poor result by Mercedes somehow, Rici has a chance to win the championship.

Vetel to get the boot at the end of the year! :)

davidheath461
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by davidheath461 »

Very poor race from Vettel.

Remember after the first safety car, Vettel was 7th and Alonso was 8th. Vettel could have got a podium but he ended up being nowhere.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Gumption »

Ricciardo once again drove great and he definitely deserves this win. He was lucky the first 4 didn't pit on the first lap of the safety car - had Vettel pit first that may have been him on the top of the podium but Vettel did look a little lackluster on the opening lap and the spin didn't help things.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by Guia »

Popcorn
Small ... $1.50
Medium ... $2.00
Large ... $2.50

Ham Burgers
$2.00 each

Ice Cream
Kimi Cone ... 90c
Nice'n'Nico ... $1.50
Lewis Licker ... $1.80
Rum'n'Ricciardo ... $1.90
Frosty Fernando ... $1.80
Sebastian Split ... $1.20
Juicy Jenson ... 80c
Last edited by Guia on Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mkone
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by mkone »

Gumption wrote:Ricciardo once again drove great and he definitely deserves this win. He was lucky the first 4 didn't pit on the first lap of the safety car - had Vettel pit first that may have been him on the top of the podium but Vettel did look a little lackluster on the opening lap and the spin didn't help things.
If Vettel was lackluster on the first lap when he lost one place, then so was Ricciardo.

Vettel was definitely unlucky, and the team put him on a nothing strategy after that. The second safety car didn't help either.

That said, fair play to Ricciardo who did what he needed to and got the job done.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by r1latty »

Vettel needs to stop letting Alonso past. That's 3 races in a row now.

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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by aftershocksinthebath »

Guia wrote:Popcorn
Small ... $1.50
Medium ... $2.00
Large ... $2.50

Ham Burgers
$2.00 each

Ice Cream
Kimi Cone ... 90c
Nice'n'Nico ... $1.50
Lewis Licker ... $1.80
Rum'n'Ricciardo ... $1.90
Frosty Fernando ... $1.80
Sebastian Split ... $1.20
Juicy Jenson ... 80c
A Small Popcorn and a Rum'n'Ricciardo please...

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purchville
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Re: Vettel v Ricciardo 2014 watch

Post by purchville »

The first thing I thought about when I saw Vettel's spin was Webber in Korea 2010. Similar conditions, similar mistake. Vettel certainly had some luck today too.
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- 7 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship 6th position
- 2016 Championship 9th position

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