Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Laura23 · Post by **Laura23** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:13 am

Peter77 wrote:Latest Driver Chassis Updates May 15th 2016

Lewis Hamilton - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Nico Rosberg - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Fernando Alonso - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Daniel Ricciardo - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Nico Hulkenberg - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Valtteri Bottas - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jenson Button - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kevin Magnussen - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Sergio Perez - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kimi Räikkönen - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Felipe Massa - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Romain Grosjean - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jean-Eric Vergne - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Daniil Kvyat - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Adrian Sutil - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Esteban Gutierrez - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Max Chilton - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kamui Kobayashi - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Marcus Ericsson - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jules Bianchi - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Sebastian Vettel - PERFECTLY WORKING CHASSIS ( chassis totally stripped down and checked over and over and over again for weeks now with a fine tooth comb by the redbull team using the most sophisticated equipment and nothing found)

You do realise the teams check chassis regularly for cracks and other wear and tear?

backdoc · Post by **backdoc** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:21 am

Thread locked in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:30 am

Is this like

Person A: God exists
Person B: You can't prove God exists
Person A: You can't prove he doesn't exist

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:39 am

Laura23 wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Latest Driver Chassis Updates May 15th 2016

Lewis Hamilton - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Nico Rosberg - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Fernando Alonso - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Daniel Ricciardo - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Nico Hulkenberg - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Valtteri Bottas - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jenson Button - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kevin Magnussen - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Sergio Perez - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kimi Räikkönen - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Felipe Massa - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Romain Grosjean - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jean-Eric Vergne - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Daniil Kvyat - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Adrian Sutil - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Esteban Gutierrez - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Max Chilton - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kamui Kobayashi - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Marcus Ericsson - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jules Bianchi - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Sebastian Vettel - PERFECTLY WORKING CHASSIS ( chassis totally stripped down and checked over and over and over again for weeks now with a fine tooth comb by the redbull team using the most sophisticated equipment and nothing found)
You do realise the teams check chassis regularly for cracks and other wear and tear?

He's more pointing out that no team has confirmed the chassis wasn't damaged, therefore we have to assume it was.

Man, imagine if Ricciardo's chassis wasn't damaged at China, he could have won the race!

Laura23 · Post by **Laura23** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:44 am

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Latest Driver Chassis Updates May 15th 2016

Lewis Hamilton - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Nico Rosberg - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Fernando Alonso - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Daniel Ricciardo - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Nico Hulkenberg - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Valtteri Bottas - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jenson Button - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kevin Magnussen - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Sergio Perez - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kimi Räikkönen - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Felipe Massa - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Romain Grosjean - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jean-Eric Vergne - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Daniil Kvyat - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Adrian Sutil - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Esteban Gutierrez - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Max Chilton - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Kamui Kobayashi - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Marcus Ericsson - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Jules Bianchi - POSSIBLY DAMAGED CHASSIS (never been checked so possibility exists)
Sebastian Vettel - PERFECTLY WORKING CHASSIS ( chassis totally stripped down and checked over and over and over again for weeks now with a fine tooth comb by the redbull team using the most sophisticated equipment and nothing found)
You do realise the teams check chassis regularly for cracks and other wear and tear?
He's more pointing out that no team has confirmed the chassis wasn't damaged, therefore we have to assume it was.

Man, imagine if Ricciardo's chassis wasn't damaged at China, he could have won the race!

Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:47 am

Laura23 wrote: Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.

You just agreed with me. The Vettel fans are all in here arguing that because Red Bull havn't said there was no problem with the chassis that there might be one.

I'm 100% with you, unless the team says his chassis is damaged, which they haven't, then it isn't.

Laura23 · Post by **Laura23** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:50 am

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.
You just agreed with me. The Vettel fans are all in here arguing that because Red Bull havn't said there was no problem with the chassis that there might be one.

I'm 100% with you, unless the team says his chassis is damaged, which they haven't, then it isn't.

Oh I know. But I don't get why people are bashing Vettel for it either. They swapped the chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it, that doesn't mean it's damaged, just that the driver isn't happy with how it handles. It happens. I'm sure years ago Ferrari gave Schumacher a new chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it. I didn't see people back then crowing at how it was a poor champion being found out etc.

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:52 am

Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.
You just agreed with me. The Vettel fans are all in here arguing that because Red Bull havn't said there was no problem with the chassis that there might be one.

I'm 100% with you, unless the team says his chassis is damaged, which they haven't, then it isn't.
Oh I know. But I don't get why people are bashing Vettel for it either. They swapped the chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it, that doesn't mean it's damaged, just that the driver isn't happy with how it handles. It happens. I'm sure years ago Ferrari gave Schumacher a new chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it. I didn't see people back then crowing at how it was a poor champion being found out etc.

Its a mental thing with seb. He needs to know his equipment is right before he can have the confidence to deliver. Its hard in sport when you're not sure if the other guy has an advantage. Its hard enough being on the pace at every single different track in every single different condition let alone when you mentally don't know how the other guy is doing so well.

Vettel has never faced a team mate faster than him before, even in the junior Formula's his team mates were generally slower than he was. Its a bit of a shock when the guy in the same equipment is doing a better job, he's not used to it.

Laura23 · Post by **Laura23** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:56 am

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.
You just agreed with me. The Vettel fans are all in here arguing that because Red Bull havn't said there was no problem with the chassis that there might be one.

I'm 100% with you, unless the team says his chassis is damaged, which they haven't, then it isn't.
Oh I know. But I don't get why people are bashing Vettel for it either. They swapped the chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it, that doesn't mean it's damaged, just that the driver isn't happy with how it handles. It happens. I'm sure years ago Ferrari gave Schumacher a new chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it. I didn't see people back then crowing at how it was a poor champion being found out etc.
Its a mental thing with seb. He needs to know his equipment is right before he can have the confidence to deliver. Its hard in sport when you're not sure if the other guy has an advantage. Its hard enough being on the pace at every single different track in every single different condition let alone when you mentally don't know how the other guy is doing so well.

Vettel has never faced a team mate faster than him before, even in the junior Formula's his team mates were generally slower than he was. Its a bit of a shock when the guy in the same equipment is doing a better job, he's not used to it.

Yeah but Paul Di Resta beat him in the same car, something he won't let anyone ever forget. I think Vettel genuinely just didn't feel comfortable in the old chassis. It's a bit like when you work in an office, you have YOUR desk and if you have to work at a new one or someone else's it just doesn't feel the same.

silkjet · Post by **silkjet** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:08 am

Blinky McSquinty wrote:Distorted, cracked, faulty or not, so what? When any driver on any team feels uncomfortable and can't explain any loss of form, the team will do whatever it takes to return him to his personal satisfaction. It happens all the time, be it Raikkonen's steering, Button's brakes or whatever.

This is not a childish soap opera but rather engineering with some basic psychology thrown in. Fittipaldi used to spend hours driving his crew crazy. He would sit in the car and have the crew adjust the mirrors, pedals, anything in the cockpit that interacted with his ergonomics. Only when he felt comfortable in the car would he relent. It is the same with balance, you can set up a car to be lightening quick but it would be unstable and very difficult to drive. So the drivers and teams strive to find the setup that is not only quick but one where the driver feels comfortable with the balance and handling.

For Vettel, the car wasn't working to his satisfaction. So the team tried different fixes, and swapping a chassis is just one of many.

Who was the driver that the mechanics told "we made the fix you asked for" but they really did not. After a test ride the driver said: "much better". He's not a current driver. I know I read this somewhere.

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:11 am

Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.
You just agreed with me. The Vettel fans are all in here arguing that because Red Bull havn't said there was no problem with the chassis that there might be one.

I'm 100% with you, unless the team says his chassis is damaged, which they haven't, then it isn't.
Oh I know. But I don't get why people are bashing Vettel for it either. They swapped the chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it, that doesn't mean it's damaged, just that the driver isn't happy with how it handles. It happens. I'm sure years ago Ferrari gave Schumacher a new chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it. I didn't see people back then crowing at how it was a poor champion being found out etc.
Its a mental thing with seb. He needs to know his equipment is right before he can have the confidence to deliver. Its hard in sport when you're not sure if the other guy has an advantage. Its hard enough being on the pace at every single different track in every single different condition let alone when you mentally don't know how the other guy is doing so well.

Vettel has never faced a team mate faster than him before, even in the junior Formula's his team mates were generally slower than he was. Its a bit of a shock when the guy in the same equipment is doing a better job, he's not used to it.
Yeah but Paul Di Resta beat him in the same car, something he won't let anyone ever forget. I think Vettel genuinely just didn't feel comfortable in the old chassis. It's a bit like when you work in an office, you have YOUR desk and if you have to work at a new one or someone else's it just doesn't feel the same.

Im not sure he was necessarily improved at Spain. He still looked like he was on path to qualify behind by a decent margin and the cars ran such different races that it was difficult to judge who had better race pace.

Laura23 · Post by **Laura23** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:12 am

silkjet wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:Distorted, cracked, faulty or not, so what? When any driver on any team feels uncomfortable and can't explain any loss of form, the team will do whatever it takes to return him to his personal satisfaction. It happens all the time, be it Raikkonen's steering, Button's brakes or whatever.

This is not a childish soap opera but rather engineering with some basic psychology thrown in. Fittipaldi used to spend hours driving his crew crazy. He would sit in the car and have the crew adjust the mirrors, pedals, anything in the cockpit that interacted with his ergonomics. Only when he felt comfortable in the car would he relent. It is the same with balance, you can set up a car to be lightening quick but it would be unstable and very difficult to drive. So the drivers and teams strive to find the setup that is not only quick but one where the driver feels comfortable with the balance and handling.

For Vettel, the car wasn't working to his satisfaction. So the team tried different fixes, and swapping a chassis is just one of many.
Who was the driver that the mechanics told "we made the fix you asked for" but they really did not. After a test ride the driver said: "much better". He's not a current driver. I know I read this somewhere.

That happened to Alesi at Benetton apparently in 1996. He asked for fix after fix after fix and the mechanics got fed up with him so they told him they'd changed things when they hadn't and were shocked when he came back in and said the car felt a million times better. But then Alesi was always a driver who drive with his emotions as much as anything else.

I'm sure he isn't the only one who has been duped by mechanics though.

hydra · Post by **hydra** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:18 am

the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?

silkjet · Post by **silkjet** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:19 am

Thank you Laura. Human nature is funny. When something doesn't feel right it can bother you. The team was right to listen to Vettel.

Replacing the chassis allows all to move on to the next diagnostic step.

AravJ · Post by **AravJ** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:30 am

hydra wrote:the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?

Added to this the fact that Vettel has
- been beaten more often than Dan so far,
-Had to move over twice for Dan,
-Had more reliablity issues than Dan,

just proves his detractors wrong when they said Vettel is the favored golden boy of RB and therefore beat Webber to 4 titles.
But detractors fail to bring that up and admit they were wrong.
Vettel is a 4 x world champion powerhouse and he will continue to prove his detractors as irrational.
The last race was a start, so i to all the bashers enjoy the moment, you dreams will soon be over.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:42 am

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Seb has said himself the tub wasn't twisted. He is on record as saying that Dan is getting more from the car than he is.

http://www.espn.co.uk/redbull/motorspor ... MP=OTC-RSS

I'm not sure thats what some of his disciples want to hear

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:46 am

Neutrality wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
LKS1 wrote:Come on guys. We don't know whether or not there was a problem with Seb's chassis.

Let's see how the season unfolds.
Well. We can assume there wasn't a problem since Red Bull haven't reported a problem. Thats the whole point of this fustercluck.

They're just trying to find an issue with the car because they want to discredit Daniel beating Sebastian as 'hardware related'. So even when Red Bull don't release any information on a damaged chassis and outright deny the rumors about one they cling to the fact there must be an issue.
And that's the whole point - its a fans/haters fustercluck.

We don't know, so let's just watch how the season progresses. It should tell us a lot about both Seb and Dan.
some on here seem to need to criticise the ones who beat their favourite driver in order to try to detract from their driver losing. Simple fact is RBR suspect a problem with the chassis but haven't found it as yet, Ricciardo is driving well, but a much improved Vettel turned up last race (coincidently with a new chassis). Perhaps it was more of a mind game by RBR to reset Seb who knows? But as you say far too early to say who will have the better hand at the end of the season!

It wasn't a new chassis

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:50 am

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote: Why would they confirm a chassis wasn't damaged after every race? I'd think that was obvious tbh. Unless a team says a chassis is damaged then it isn't as far as they know. Simple.

This thread has just turned into a bunch of Vettel bashers looking for any excuse to put the boot into him.
You just agreed with me. The Vettel fans are all in here arguing that because Red Bull havn't said there was no problem with the chassis that there might be one.

I'm 100% with you, unless the team says his chassis is damaged, which they haven't, then it isn't.
Oh I know. But I don't get why people are bashing Vettel for it either. They swapped the chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it, that doesn't mean it's damaged, just that the driver isn't happy with how it handles. It happens. I'm sure years ago Ferrari gave Schumacher a new chassis because he wasn't comfortable with it. I didn't see people back then crowing at how it was a poor champion being found out etc.
Its a mental thing with seb. He needs to know his equipment is right before he can have the confidence to deliver. Its hard in sport when you're not sure if the other guy has an advantage. Its hard enough being on the pace at every single different track in every single different condition let alone when you mentally don't know how the other guy is doing so well.

Vettel has never faced a team mate faster than him before, even in the junior Formula's his team mates were generally slower than he was. Its a bit of a shock when the guy in the same equipment is doing a better job, he's not used to it.

That is not true

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:51 am

AravJ wrote:
hydra wrote:the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?
Added to this the fact that Vettel has
- been beaten more often than Dan so far,
-Had to move over twice for Dan,
-Had more reliablity issues than Dan,

just proves his detractors wrong when they said Vettel is the favored golden boy of RB and therefore beat Webber to 4 titles.
But detractors fail to bring that up and admit they were wrong.
Vettel is a 4 x world champion powerhouse and he will continue to prove his detractors as irrational.
The last race was a start, so i to all the bashers enjoy the moment, you dreams will soon be over.

Vettel has had to move over because he has been slower and holding Daniel up. If the situations were reversed then the team orders would be too.

Vettel has had worse mechnical luck, but his luck as a whole is better so far, Daniel has had 2 non finishes to Vettel's 1 and that is reflected in the points swing to Seb despite Sebastian yet to finish ahead once on track.

The rest of your post is just fanboy nonsense. No one ever said Vettel beat Webber because RBR tainted it, but RBR always favored Vettel over Mark. They may not over Ricciardo because he is a part of the young driver program and their own development.

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:53 am

ChopSchuey wrote:Prema, so was there a problem with Vettel's chassis?

I don't know.

The team mentioned there was no distortion found, so if there was a problem, could you supply a link please?

"No one error can be considered an entire explanation and requires further work"
"Once all the information is available, Red Bull will address the points found in order to implement a complete solution."

So give me a break.

Otherwise, he didnt have a problem with the chassis.

You are obvioulsy free to make your mind up as you wish.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:54 am

AravJ wrote:
hydra wrote:the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?
Added to this the fact that Vettel has
- been beaten more often than Dan so far,
-Had to move over twice for Dan,
-Had more reliablity issues than Dan,

just proves his detractors wrong when they said Vettel is the favored golden boy of RB and therefore beat Webber to 4 titles.
But detractors fail to bring that up and admit they were wrong.
Vettel is a 4 x world champion powerhouse and he will continue to prove his detractors as irrational.
The last race was a start, so i to all the bashers enjoy the moment, you dreams will soon be over.

Yes very true but would have Red Bull changed Ricciardo's chassis if the roles had been reversed?

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 10:57 am

"The chassis was not really bent, but in some places it just was not one hundred per cent right." - Helmet Marko.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-251089.html

More vagueness.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:11 am

pokerman wrote:
AravJ wrote:
hydra wrote:the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?
Added to this the fact that Vettel has
- been beaten more often than Dan so far,
-Had to move over twice for Dan,
-Had more reliablity issues than Dan,

just proves his detractors wrong when they said Vettel is the favored golden boy of RB and therefore beat Webber to 4 titles.
But detractors fail to bring that up and admit they were wrong.
Vettel is a 4 x world champion powerhouse and he will continue to prove his detractors as irrational.
The last race was a start, so i to all the bashers enjoy the moment, you dreams will soon be over.
Yes very true but would have Red Bull changed Ricciardo's chassis if the roles had been reversed?

Possibly not but it all fairness it's as much because of Vettel's reputation as anything else. If Ricciardo had been the one to struggle it would have been put down to him not being as good as Seb, since no-one really knew how good he was. But since Seb's a four times WDC it suggests the problem is not the driver but the car. Unfair? Maybe. But understandable.

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:17 am

infi24r wrote:
Prema wrote: The exact quote:

"The 'old' chassis has not been found to be distorted,"

And this is what you are putting into the citation marks:

"We haven't found any issue"

Do you see the difference?
I see the difference, but its elementary at this point, they denied the rumors the chassis is bent and provided no other evidence of any chassis problems.

Exactly. It is because you can see the difference that you are deliberately replacing that original statement with your own fabricated one so to fit to your own particular disposition of mind.

What evidence do you want that there is no problem?

Not your faked quotes, that's for sure.

hydra · Post by **hydra** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:17 am

and unfortunately for all of you, a report has been in the media that Seb and Daniel actually get along and have a good relationship....is that to hide how much Vettel hates Daniel cause now he's exposed him as a fraud who can't drive and 5 races....keep dreaming guys, just like Alonso really hates Lewis for what happaned at McLaren, remember those days, pretty similar....in reality all the drivers are just glad to be in F1 and be seen as the top 22 drivers in the world.

You may not agree with them being top drivers, but what are you going to do about it? Whine, and whine to us other F1 fans, instead of telling it to the team bosses that employ these useless drivers and pay them millions.

I can fully understand and support a thread Vettel vs Ricciardo that goes on over the whole season, but all you guys making the biggest thing out of anything you think you heard or saw, is just ridiculous, there is not a thread here that mentions Vettel that hasn't been ruined by your bashing.

We're all supposed to be fans and enjoy F1 and here to share information, your personal problems with a particular driver don't need to be mentioned everyday in every thread that mentions Vettel. We will never hear or see the end of this now across this forum, thanks

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:27 am

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AravJ wrote:
hydra wrote:the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?
Added to this the fact that Vettel has
- been beaten more often than Dan so far,
-Had to move over twice for Dan,
-Had more reliablity issues than Dan,

just proves his detractors wrong when they said Vettel is the favored golden boy of RB and therefore beat Webber to 4 titles.
But detractors fail to bring that up and admit they were wrong.
Vettel is a 4 x world champion powerhouse and he will continue to prove his detractors as irrational.
The last race was a start, so i to all the bashers enjoy the moment, you dreams will soon be over.
Yes very true but would have Red Bull changed Ricciardo's chassis if the roles had been reversed?
Possibly not but it all fairness it's as much because of Vettel's reputation as anything else. If Ricciardo had been the one to struggle it would have been put down to him not being as good as Seb, since no-one really knew how good he was. But since Seb's a four times WDC it suggests the problem is not the driver but the car. Unfair? Maybe. But understandable.

Yes i agree understandable

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:50 am

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AravJ wrote:
hydra wrote:the actual problem with this thread is the Vettel bashers that can't get over the fact that he won WDC fair and square and beat your favorite drivers, now that he is not dominating they want to have complicated discussions why he should't have ever won. He did, he is 4x WDC, get over it.

It's not our fault he is employed by Red Bull to be their F1 driver. You can set up a petition to get Vettel out of F1, but other than that there is really nothing you can do to take his success away from him or his fans, other than make all those comments, please sir, can I have some more?
Added to this the fact that Vettel has
- been beaten more often than Dan so far,
-Had to move over twice for Dan,
-Had more reliablity issues than Dan,

just proves his detractors wrong when they said Vettel is the favored golden boy of RB and therefore beat Webber to 4 titles.
But detractors fail to bring that up and admit they were wrong.
Vettel is a 4 x world champion powerhouse and he will continue to prove his detractors as irrational.
The last race was a start, so i to all the bashers enjoy the moment, you dreams will soon be over.
Yes very true but would have Red Bull changed Ricciardo's chassis if the roles had been reversed?
Possibly not but it all fairness it's as much because of Vettel's reputation as anything else. If Ricciardo had been the one to struggle it would have been put down to him not being as good as Seb, since no-one really knew how good he was. But since Seb's a four times WDC it suggests the problem is not the driver but the car. Unfair? Maybe. But understandable.
Yes i agree understandable

Yep, when you have a 4xWDC and a 0xrace winner as teammates it's only natural.

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:57 am

Covalent wrote: Yep, when you have a 4xWDC and a 0xrace winner as teammates it's only natural.

Exactly. Thats why I don't really see it as brave when people predict Seb will beat Daniel over the whole season. I mean you'd bloody hope so wouldn't you?

What will be more interesting is if Daniel continues to outperform Sebastian if overall opinions of driver ability could actually swing towards a guy who has won 0 races over a 4x champ.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:05 pm

infi24r wrote:"The chassis was not really bent, but in some places it just was not one hundred per cent right." - Helmet Marko.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-251089.html

More vagueness.

So here's the first evidence there actually was something wrong with the chassis.

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:07 pm

Covalent wrote:
infi24r wrote:"The chassis was not really bent, but in some places it just was not one hundred per cent right." - Helmet Marko.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-251089.html

More vagueness.
So here's the first evidence there actually was something wrong with the chassis.

Well, 'evidence' is quite a strong word for that statement.

But yes, its clear the chassis had a very small problems, but every chassis would, these aren't printed things they are made from carbon fiber by hand, Ricciardo's would have problems too.

ChopSchuey · Post by **ChopSchuey** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:14 pm

Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

Laura, its not bashing Vettel. The fact of the matter is some on here, obviously Vettel fans, are desperately trying to use the chassis as an excuse for his
performances against Dan. They just cannot accept the fact that Dan has qualified and raced better than Seb so far this year. And for not the debacle in OZ,
would have been ahead on points.

Seb will probably come back now that hes more comfortable with the car, because lets face it, its a completely different beast to what last years car was, and
maybe its taking Seb a while to get used to it.

But please give Dan credit where credit is due. His performances have been beyond what anyone would have expected this year, and Seb has got a challenge on his hands, its refreshing.

Now ive just read the above link from 'Paddock Talk'. Who's lying, Red Bull who deny the report, or Vettel who claims something wrong?

Peter77 · Post by **Peter77** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:17 pm

infi24r wrote:
Covalent wrote:
infi24r wrote:"The chassis was not really bent, but in some places it just was not one hundred per cent right." - Helmet Marko.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-251089.html

More vagueness.
So here's the first evidence there actually was something wrong with the chassis.
Well, 'evidence' is quite a strong word for that statement.

But yes, its clear the chassis had a very small problems, but every chassis would, these aren't printed things they are made from carbon fiber by hand, Ricciardo's would have problems too.

This 100% comment made me laugh.
Riccardo definately has a problem also with his chassis then. I'm sure using a scanning electron microscope and checking everything to the millionth of a millimetre it would show it was not 100% correct. Even a millionth off would show his chassis is only 99.9999%. Ricciardo definately needs a new chassis also :p

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:24 pm

ChopSchuey wrote:Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

Laura, its not bashing Vettel. The fact of the matter is some on here, obviously Vettel fans, are desperately trying to use the chassis as an excuse for his
performances against Dan. They just cannot accept the fact that Dan has qualified and raced better than Seb so far this year. And for not the debacle in OZ,
would have been ahead on points.

Seb will probably come back now that hes more comfortable with the car, because lets face it, its a completely different beast to what last years car was, and
maybe its taking Seb a while to get used to it.

But please give Dan credit where credit is due. His performances have been beyond what anyone would have expected this year, and Seb has got a challenge on his
hands, its refreshing.

It's equally clear, though, that Vettel has had issues of some kind. Now, whether that's the chassis or something else is largely immaterial: the fact is he's not been operating at his best. Investigating the chassis is just one in a process of elimination to exclude potential sources of Vettel's problems. I don't know why people are making such a big deal of it, with those trying to prove it's nothing to do with the chassis sometimes sounding as desperate as those claiming it is. Why does it even matter whether it's the chassis or something else? Surely the fact that the team are going to these lengths to support their driver should be commended, not criticised?

None of this detracts from Ricciardo's performances, which have been very good. But we can still say Seb's not performing at his peak without that automatically calling into question what Ricciardo's done. I for one would rather have both of them operating at their best.

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:31 pm

Zoue wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

Laura, its not bashing Vettel. The fact of the matter is some on here, obviously Vettel fans, are desperately trying to use the chassis as an excuse for his
performances against Dan. They just cannot accept the fact that Dan has qualified and raced better than Seb so far this year. And for not the debacle in OZ,
would have been ahead on points.

Seb will probably come back now that hes more comfortable with the car, because lets face it, its a completely different beast to what last years car was, and
maybe its taking Seb a while to get used to it.

But please give Dan credit where credit is due. His performances have been beyond what anyone would have expected this year, and Seb has got a challenge on his
hands, its refreshing.
It's equally clear, though, that Vettel has had issues of some kind. Now, whether that's the chassis or something else is largely immaterial: the fact is he's not been operating at his best. Investigating the chassis is just one in a process of elimination to exclude potential sources of Vettel's problems. I don't know why people are making such a big deal of it, with those trying to prove it's nothing to do with the chassis sometimes sounding as desperate as those claiming it is. Why does it even matter whether it's the chassis or something else? Surely the fact that the team are going to these lengths to support their driver should be commended, not criticised?

None of this detracts from Ricciardo's performances, which have been very good. But we can still say Seb's not performing at his peak without that automatically calling into question what Ricciardo's done. I for one would rather have both of them operating at their best.

You can't say for sure that wasn't his best. Just because Seb gets outdone by another driver doesn't discredit his result. If Vettel wins the next race and Ricciardo finishes behind will you be arguing that Daniel had problems so it doesn't count? I doubt it.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:43 pm

infi24r wrote:
Covalent wrote:
infi24r wrote:"The chassis was not really bent, but in some places it just was not one hundred per cent right." - Helmet Marko.

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-251089.html

More vagueness.
So here's the first evidence there actually was something wrong with the chassis.
Well, 'evidence' is quite a strong word for that statement.

But yes, its clear the chassis had a very small problems, but every chassis would, these aren't printed things they are made from carbon fiber by hand, Ricciardo's would have problems too.

I'm glad you're finally able to admit it, you must feel a bit silly after going on with the "there's nothing wrong with the chassis" comment you've been going on with page after page, even before it had been investigated.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:44 pm

infi24r wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

Laura, its not bashing Vettel. The fact of the matter is some on here, obviously Vettel fans, are desperately trying to use the chassis as an excuse for his
performances against Dan. They just cannot accept the fact that Dan has qualified and raced better than Seb so far this year. And for not the debacle in OZ,
would have been ahead on points.

Seb will probably come back now that hes more comfortable with the car, because lets face it, its a completely different beast to what last years car was, and
maybe its taking Seb a while to get used to it.

But please give Dan credit where credit is due. His performances have been beyond what anyone would have expected this year, and Seb has got a challenge on his
hands, its refreshing.
It's equally clear, though, that Vettel has had issues of some kind. Now, whether that's the chassis or something else is largely immaterial: the fact is he's not been operating at his best. Investigating the chassis is just one in a process of elimination to exclude potential sources of Vettel's problems. I don't know why people are making such a big deal of it, with those trying to prove it's nothing to do with the chassis sometimes sounding as desperate as those claiming it is. Why does it even matter whether it's the chassis or something else? Surely the fact that the team are going to these lengths to support their driver should be commended, not criticised?

None of this detracts from Ricciardo's performances, which have been very good. But we can still say Seb's not performing at his peak without that automatically calling into question what Ricciardo's done. I for one would rather have both of them operating at their best.
You can't say for sure that wasn't his best. Just because Seb gets outdone by another driver doesn't discredit his result. If Vettel wins the next race and Ricciardo finishes behind will you be arguing that Daniel had problems so it doesn't count? I doubt it.

If Dan says there's a problem with the car I will believe it. You can mark my words on that. I wish you guys would give Seb the same benefit of the doubt.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:50 pm

infi24r wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

Laura, its not bashing Vettel. The fact of the matter is some on here, obviously Vettel fans, are desperately trying to use the chassis as an excuse for his
performances against Dan. They just cannot accept the fact that Dan has qualified and raced better than Seb so far this year. And for not the debacle in OZ,
would have been ahead on points.

Seb will probably come back now that hes more comfortable with the car, because lets face it, its a completely different beast to what last years car was, and
maybe its taking Seb a while to get used to it.

But please give Dan credit where credit is due. His performances have been beyond what anyone would have expected this year, and Seb has got a challenge on his
hands, its refreshing.
It's equally clear, though, that Vettel has had issues of some kind. Now, whether that's the chassis or something else is largely immaterial: the fact is he's not been operating at his best. Investigating the chassis is just one in a process of elimination to exclude potential sources of Vettel's problems. I don't know why people are making such a big deal of it, with those trying to prove it's nothing to do with the chassis sometimes sounding as desperate as those claiming it is. Why does it even matter whether it's the chassis or something else? Surely the fact that the team are going to these lengths to support their driver should be commended, not criticised?

None of this detracts from Ricciardo's performances, which have been very good. But we can still say Seb's not performing at his peak without that automatically calling into question what Ricciardo's done. I for one would rather have both of them operating at their best.
You can't say for sure that wasn't his best. Just because Seb gets outdone by another driver doesn't discredit his result. If Vettel wins the next race and Ricciardo finishes behind will you be arguing that Daniel had problems so it doesn't count? I doubt it.

I've never said it doesn't count, so why would I start now? You appear to be making the assumption that anybody defending Seb must be a fan of his, and I'm not. I'm just looking at this objectively and seeing that he's not been performing to his usual standard.

And once again, it's not about discrediting Ricciardo. He's obviously doing very well so why would I do that? But I can say with reasonable confidence that Seb hasn't been at his best because both he and Horner (among others) have said so. That doesn't mean that I think he will start beating Ricciardo when he finally sorts himself out, either. It's clear Ricciardo's more than capable of holding his own. Maybe he's better than Seb. Good for him if he is. I'd just prefer to see it when both are at the top of their game.

going_the_distance · Post by **going_the_distance** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:51 pm

If you look hard enough you'll find something wrong with any chassis that's done a race distance or two. Those kerbs can be brutal.

Peter77 · Post by **Peter77** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:52 pm

infi24r wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

Laura, its not bashing Vettel. The fact of the matter is some on here, obviously Vettel fans, are desperately trying to use the chassis as an excuse for his
performances against Dan. They just cannot accept the fact that Dan has qualified and raced better than Seb so far this year. And for not the debacle in OZ,
would have been ahead on points.

Seb will probably come back now that hes more comfortable with the car, because lets face it, its a completely different beast to what last years car was, and
maybe its taking Seb a while to get used to it.

But please give Dan credit where credit is due. His performances have been beyond what anyone would have expected this year, and Seb has got a challenge on his
hands, its refreshing.
It's equally clear, though, that Vettel has had issues of some kind. Now, whether that's the chassis or something else is largely immaterial: the fact is he's not been operating at his best. Investigating the chassis is just one in a process of elimination to exclude potential sources of Vettel's problems. I don't know why people are making such a big deal of it, with those trying to prove it's nothing to do with the chassis sometimes sounding as desperate as those claiming it is. Why does it even matter whether it's the chassis or something else? Surely the fact that the team are going to these lengths to support their driver should be commended, not criticised?

None of this detracts from Ricciardo's performances, which have been very good. But we can still say Seb's not performing at his peak without that automatically calling into question what Ricciardo's done. I for one would rather have both of them operating at their best.
You can't say for sure that wasn't his best. Just because Seb gets outdone by another driver doesn't discredit his result. If Vettel wins the next race and Ricciardo finishes behind will you be arguing that Daniel had problems so it doesn't count? I doubt it.

When Webber was getting beaten by Vettel did we see the team go out of their way changing and stripping chassis and now designing entirely new ones for him? NO Parts were taken off his car for Vettel's even when webber was leading the championship in 2010. I think we all remember in 2010 the famous statement not bad for a number 2 driver. As webber was ahead on points and being treated as clear number 2 and he was very angry about this. In the interview at silverstone he looked like he was about to kill somebody. Not equally at all and never was.

All we have now is a situation where Ricciardo is quicker than Vettel. Instead of the team focusing on Ricciardo and building him a new chassis and checking his chassis as he is the faster driver they are predominantly focusing on Vettel. Ricciardo's chassis has not been checked which is clear favouritism. Why is Vettel's chassis only being checked and stripped . If the team is focussing the majority of their efforts on Vettel and stripping chassis and building new ones you would expect him to be alot quicker than Ricciardo any day now. Extra attention, extra focus, clear favouritism, new lighter chassis and new parts for Vettel being designed first. I'm definately expecting Vettel to become alot quicker then Ricciardo over the next few races due to this. Riicciardo is quicker. If the gap closes and or Vettel is all of a sudden quicker it will be very obvious why. I wonder if and or when Ricciardo is going to get his new lighter chassis does any anybody know?

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:52 pm

ChopSchuey wrote:Yep thats what i thought, you couldnt supply a link.

Nowhere does it says there is a problem, therefore there is no problem, only a suspected one which has proven to be unfounded.

I dont know what that drivel was when i asked for a link, but does that say, yep the chassis had a crack, or yep, the chassis was twisted?

The drivel is that for some reason you particularly picked on me to supply you with a non existing link for something that I personally have never made a claim about. And now you are bragging about your own good self how you, yep, you knew it I couldn't supply you with the non existing link. So impressive!

Nope, it doesn't. Therefore, Seb had the same chassis as Dan had in all the races so far.

What a brilliant deduction! You solved this issue right on the spot. See, 'Prema' did not supply you the requested link (that you knew couldn't be supplied), and so you got your proof.

And now you may kindly share that knowledge with Red Bull too so that they can save their money and time in looking further.