Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by silkjet »

gregwill: I like your Earnhardt quote. It could apply to Alonso. :)

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by gregwil »

Laura23 wrote:
gregwil wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
gregwil wrote:
Balibari wrote:I've now heard three of the F1 observers I most respect (Gary Anderson, Mark Hughes, Martin brundle) make the same point. From trackside they say it's apparent Vettel is trying to drive this car the same way he he did the blown floor cars, and it isn't working. Two of them theorised that with the STR having relatively little downforce Ricciardo is already adapted to the current requirements and that's why he's been quicker.
This is exactly what I have been saying. Ricciardo is performing well as the STR had relatively little downforce and was much more closely related to this years cars as the RedBull whereas Vettel had a unique way of driving by maximising use of the rear downforce and now that that has been minimised it is affecting him more than others, that was the intention of the FIA anyway.

What makes Vettel one of the greats is that he knows what he needs and he knows how to get it. He knows what he needs from the car and he knows how to get the team to give it to him and if he has to stand on poor old Ricciardo's toes to get it then so be it, the sign of a true champion - take no prisoners. He may offend some of the PC brigade who will go and boo him when he starts winning again but tough luck, his job is to win and that is what he should do. Ricciardo is good, he has proved to be so, but I think he will be like Webber in that he will remain consistently just good and won't improve. Vettel on the other hand evolves every year along with the car and he gets better and better as the year goes along and Red Bull knows that this is what they really need in order to challenge for championships. In fact this is probably the best combination for a team, one consistently good driver and one driver who just keeps getting better as the year goes along.

Mark my words at the end of this year there will be two guys in the hunt for the championship, Hamilton because he has a rocket ship at his disposal and Vettel because he knows what he needs to do to win and he will work with his team until he has what he needs and then he will be unstoppable. Note how even Mercedes is starting to worry - exhibit no.1 "Mercedes hint at team orders rethink", they are starting to worry.

Vettel won't be challenging for the title this year. That much is abundantly clear. He's struggling to beat his team mate, never mind a pair of Merc's in a car thats way faster than his own. He's already 42 points behind, and yes crow about double points all you want but the chances are that gap will have at least doubled in six or seven races time.
Pre-season where was Red Bull? They are now 2nd in the championship with their drivers 5th and 6th. There are still almost 400 drivers points to play for. I wouldn't right off the best driver, who certainly knows how to win championships, and the best team this early in the season.

:lol:

Red Bull had pace pre season, they just had no reliability. But they were still miles off of Merc. They were at least a second slower than the Mercs in the dry in China, possibly 1.5 and they won't be getting that back until at least late into the European season. That's assuming Merc stay still as well.

For Vettel to win the championship this year now he has to pretty much have a perfect season from Spain onwards and given he's been eating his way through his power unit tally too that is highly unlikely.
Actually I don't necessarily think he will WIN the championship this year, that Mercedes is on a completely different level to anything else, but he will at the very least be the last man standing after the Mercs and I do think he could challenge Rosberg for second place.

Anyway we will see once he gets that car where he wants it, watch this space.........................
Sebastian Vettel - 4 x World Driving Champion!!!

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by gregwil »

silkjet wrote:gregwill: I like your Earnhardt quote. It could apply to Alonso. :)

Yeah it could, if he didn't keep loosing ;) It better suits Vettel, especially the part about refusing to loose.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Laura23 »

gregwil wrote:
silkjet wrote:gregwill: I like your Earnhardt quote. It could apply to Alonso. :)

Yeah it could, if he didn't keep loosing ;) It better suits Vettel, especially the part about refusing to loose.


It's 'lose'. Not 'loose'. Vettel doesn't like loose things, especially the rear end of his car.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by gregwil »

Laura23 wrote:
gregwil wrote:
silkjet wrote:gregwill: I like your Earnhardt quote. It could apply to Alonso. :)

Yeah it could, if he didn't keep loosing ;) It better suits Vettel, especially the part about refusing to loose.


It's 'lose'. Not 'loose'. Vettel doesn't like loose things, especially the rear end of his car.
You got me there, I think I loosed this speling compitision, dam!!!! I'm going to beed....
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by silkjet »

Good night gregwill: Happy dreams about loose things!

PS Alonso rules!!! ;)

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by oz_karter »

There is a big problem with Vettel's chassis.

Daniel Ricciardo isn't in it.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

going_the_distance wrote:Actually I'm going to correct my own view here, there is an article out in German today that I've just read with Marko commenting on Ricciardo:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 82090.html

Some positive things, but also really interesting to hear it confirmed that there were people in the team that didn't want him (there were reports that Horner and Newey wanted Raikkonen over Ric) and that the team harmony is much better with Ricciardo rather than Webber. Some unflattering Webber stuff in there, unsuprisingly!

Ricciardo is just as much Marko's boy as Seb is, potentially, obviously he will always favour the one who wins.

Horner and Newey just want results, they may have wanted Raikkonen before but no doubt that's already changed given Ricciardo's performance (and smaller pay cheque)

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mmi16 »

'Identical race cars' are rarely if ever identical - when used on the track.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Laura23 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:Actually I'm going to correct my own view here, there is an article out in German today that I've just read with Marko commenting on Ricciardo:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 82090.html

Some positive things, but also really interesting to hear it confirmed that there were people in the team that didn't want him (there were reports that Horner and Newey wanted Raikkonen over Ric) and that the team harmony is much better with Ricciardo rather than Webber. Some unflattering Webber stuff in there, unsuprisingly!

Ricciardo is just as much Marko's boy as Seb is, potentially, obviously he will always favour the one who wins.

Horner and Newey just want results, they may have wanted Raikkonen before but no doubt that's already changed given Ricciardo's performance (and smaller pay cheque)

Going by the look on Marko's face on Sunday in China I don't think he was all that happy about Vettel being trounced by Ricciardo that day.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by PGracer »

oz_karter wrote:There is a big problem with Vettel's chassis.

Daniel Ricciardo isn't in it.


Engineers have also heard a whining sound coming from just behind the steering wheel.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by going_the_distance »

Laura23 wrote: Going by the look on Marko's face on Sunday in China I don't think he was all that happy about Vettel being trounced by Ricciardo that day.


No indeed. :lol:

I've followed Daniel's career for some time now and I think it's important to point out that he has had a very different path with Marko than Vettel.

Vettel first came under Marko's wing when he was just 12 years old. Marko was by his side regularly in junior racing at a quite young age. Marko's relationship with Mateschitz and the consequent Red Bull young driver program (and F1 team ownership) essentially flourished at the same time Marko was bringing Vettel through the ranks.

You can read a bit about Marko and Vettel here:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/n ... lmut-marko

Daniel by contrast came into the program at a point where it was a more evolved entity, attached to two successful and growing F1 teams. It was more of a machine by then, if a brutal one. Daniel was picked up in 2008, so at the age of 18/19. He won his place via a series of cut throat race auditions, and has always had a comparatively arms length relationship with Marko. Even when Daniel made it to WSR 3.5, it's not like Marko was there by his side, he'd pop up to visit him and Vergne (or Hartley before he was dropped) at the odd race.

So whilst Dan is a Red Bull product and no doubt will be treated much better than Webber because of this (Webber obviously undermined Marko's program) he does not enjoy the special, father figure like relationship with Marko that Vettel does.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Rek »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:Actually I'm going to correct my own view here, there is an article out in German today that I've just read with Marko commenting on Ricciardo:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 82090.html

Some positive things, but also really interesting to hear it confirmed that there were people in the team that didn't want him (there were reports that Horner and Newey wanted Raikkonen over Ric) and that the team harmony is much better with Ricciardo rather than Webber. Some unflattering Webber stuff in there, unsuprisingly!

Ricciardo is just as much Marko's boy as Seb is, potentially, obviously he will always favour the one who wins.

Horner and Newey just want results, they may have wanted Raikkonen before but no doubt that's already changed given Ricciardo's performance (and smaller pay cheque)


Marko may love them both, but definitely not equally.

"In 2012 it was the same and by the time he was happy with the rear he was unbeatable."

He wasn't unbeatable towards the end of 2012. Hamilton Raikkonen and Button won 3 of the last 4 races. What he means is unbeatable compared to his not so equal teammate.

I also think the thread title isn't particularly accurate. RB haven't identified a problem with the chassis, have they?

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by HawaiiF1Fan »

Zoue wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:
mds wrote:
stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.


A chassis takes months to build. They are usually allocated on a needs basis (damage or total write off of previous one) but you'd imagine the No. 1 driver would get preference.

But they must have spares, surely? If one is damaged in an accident they can't wait months for a replacement



I seriously doubt it takes months to build a new tub.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Laura23 »

HawaiiF1Fan wrote:
Zoue wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:
mds wrote:
stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.


A chassis takes months to build. They are usually allocated on a needs basis (damage or total write off of previous one) but you'd imagine the No. 1 driver would get preference.

But they must have spares, surely? If one is damaged in an accident they can't wait months for a replacement



I seriously doubt it takes months to build a new tub.


Even for the best teams, you're talking 12 weeks from pressing the button on a chassis build to having a completed chassis.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20844843

Red Bull likely built three chassis to begin with to be ready for pre season testing, perhaps even only two if they were running a bit behind. They would have had three by Oz though. Vettel will likely get Chassis No3 for Spain now and they'll be building Chassis No4 as we speak just in case they decide to scrap Vettel's original tub.

Most teams only build four or five chassis per season if they can these days because they have no need for a spare car at races anymore, they just need one spare tub and the two race rubs. They'll add a fourth and fifth as back ups as the season progresses and the original tubs see some wear and tear. I think it was Alonso in either 2005 or 2006 who went the entire season with the same tub, so they don't need dozens of the things. I think the top teams may build a sixth toward the end of the season so they can have enough tubs for showcars once the season has finished. But most stick with four or five of them. That's one of the reasons most of the teams showcars for events like Goodwood or show runs tend to be quite old chassis these days, they just don't have enough recent tubs to go around. Red Bull were still using an RB5 tub as recently as 2012 for their show car.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by purchville »

and I thought Vettel's issues so far had been put down to lack of feel with the Renault engine's power delivery...

i.e. improved engine software mapping would be they way to go for improvement rather than anything with the chassis..

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

Laura23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:Actually I'm going to correct my own view here, there is an article out in German today that I've just read with Marko commenting on Ricciardo:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 82090.html

Some positive things, but also really interesting to hear it confirmed that there were people in the team that didn't want him (there were reports that Horner and Newey wanted Raikkonen over Ric) and that the team harmony is much better with Ricciardo rather than Webber. Some unflattering Webber stuff in there, unsuprisingly!

Ricciardo is just as much Marko's boy as Seb is, potentially, obviously he will always favour the one who wins.

Horner and Newey just want results, they may have wanted Raikkonen before but no doubt that's already changed given Ricciardo's performance (and smaller pay cheque)

Going by the look on Marko's face on Sunday in China I don't think he was all that happy about Vettel being trounced by Ricciardo that day.


Would you if you were Marko? Vettel is probably on 10x or more the money of Ricciardo.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

Laura23 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20844843

Red Bull likely built three chassis to begin with to be ready for pre season testing, perhaps even only two if they were running a bit behind. They would have had three by Oz though. Vettel will likely get Chassis No3 for Spain now and they'll be building Chassis No4 as we speak just in case they decide to scrap Vettel's original tub.

Most teams only build four or five chassis per season if they can these days because they have no need for a spare car at races anymore, they just need one spare tub and the two race rubs. They'll add a fourth and fifth as back ups as the season progresses and the original tubs see some wear and tear. I think it was Alonso in either 2005 or 2006 who went the entire season with the same tub, so they don't need dozens of the things. I think the top teams may build a sixth toward the end of the season so they can have enough tubs for showcars once the season has finished. But most stick with four or five of them. That's one of the reasons most of the teams showcars for events like Goodwood or show runs tend to be quite old chassis these days, they just don't have enough recent tubs to go around. Red Bull were still using an RB5 tub as recently as 2012 for their show car.


Remember there is no identified issue with Sebastian's car. They are just scratching their head why he is being beaten by such a margin by Ricciardo and are looking for any reason.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Prema »

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20844843

Red Bull likely built three chassis to begin with to be ready for pre season testing, perhaps even only two if they were running a bit behind. They would have had three by Oz though. Vettel will likely get Chassis No3 for Spain now and they'll be building Chassis No4 as we speak just in case they decide to scrap Vettel's original tub.

Most teams only build four or five chassis per season if they can these days because they have no need for a spare car at races anymore, they just need one spare tub and the two race rubs. They'll add a fourth and fifth as back ups as the season progresses and the original tubs see some wear and tear. I think it was Alonso in either 2005 or 2006 who went the entire season with the same tub, so they don't need dozens of the things. I think the top teams may build a sixth toward the end of the season so they can have enough tubs for showcars once the season has finished. But most stick with four or five of them. That's one of the reasons most of the teams showcars for events like Goodwood or show runs tend to be quite old chassis these days, they just don't have enough recent tubs to go around. Red Bull were still using an RB5 tub as recently as 2012 for their show car.


Remember there is no identified issue with Sebastian's car. They are just scratching their head why he is being beaten by such a margin by Ricciardo and are looking for any reason.


In other words, they are a bunch of delusional people looking for just any reason for the lack of top performance there where it can't possibly be found instead of recognizing that it is the driver who is the reason. Simply wasting their time and money. They'll be better off to read the posts on this thread and save themselves from unnecessary trouble...

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by wolfie81 »

I hope he gets the new chassis and still gets trounced. It would certainly hinder his rep and 4 titles even further :D

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

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Prema wrote:They'll be better off to read the posts on this thread and save themselves from unnecessary trouble...

Some teams would...
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by wolfie81 »

By the way it seems everyone and RB were quick to point out that when Webber didn't perform with Vettel it was acknowledged that it was his driving style that was the issue. Webber wasn't lucky enough to grab a 'new chassis' and basically forced to adapt. There is no reason Webber couldn't have outdone Vettel with these new cars.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, why is there even a debate or RB trying to defend Vettel? Maybe he just hasn't realised how to come to grips with the car (and may never will either) much like Webber did. Double standards left right and centre.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

We'll see over the year. If Ric continues to outperform him then by mid year all excuses will just be that, long forgotten excuses.

Its reasonable for Red Bull to do everything possible to make Vettel comfortable, as long as its not to the detriment of Ricciardo.

If their efforts aren't effective then they may have to consider switching focus.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mikeyg123 »

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:Actually I'm going to correct my own view here, there is an article out in German today that I've just read with Marko commenting on Ricciardo:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 82090.html

Some positive things, but also really interesting to hear it confirmed that there were people in the team that didn't want him (there were reports that Horner and Newey wanted Raikkonen over Ric) and that the team harmony is much better with Ricciardo rather than Webber. Some unflattering Webber stuff in there, unsuprisingly!

Ricciardo is just as much Marko's boy as Seb is, potentially, obviously he will always favour the one who wins.

Horner and Newey just want results, they may have wanted Raikkonen before but no doubt that's already changed given Ricciardo's performance (and smaller pay cheque)

Going by the look on Marko's face on Sunday in China I don't think he was all that happy about Vettel being trounced by Ricciardo that day.


Would you if you were Marko? Vettel is probably on 10x or more the money of Ricciardo.


I doubt he cares. Marko does not pay Vettel's wages, and Ricciardo has come up through the Marko school of hard knocks just like Vettel. Why would Marko have a preference?

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by specdecible »

I can't see Red Bull ever building Webber a new chassis just incase there was something wrong with it, hell they didn't even build him a new one after he destroyed his in Valencia they just gave him Vettel's old one. Seems like an unnecessary expense and a bit of a knee jerk reaction especially if there is no real evidence of there being anything wrong.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Laura23 »

specdecible wrote:I can't see Red Bull ever building Webber a new chassis just incase there was something wrong with it, hell they didn't even build him a new one after he destroyed his in Valencia they just gave him Vettel's old one. Seems like an unnecessary expense and a bit of a knee jerk reaction especially if there is no real evidence of there being anything wrong.

They would have been building a new tub anyway. The process takes up to 12 weeks so Vettel's new chassis, if he's actually getting a brand new one, would have begun it's building process in Feb. Red Bull have likely been using three chassis since the season begun in Oz, 01 for Vettel, 02 for Ricciardo and 03 as a spare. Vettel could even be getting the 03 chassis and Red Bull doing a straight swap with his original 01 tub.

But be sure that a fourth tub will already have been, or be in the process of being built. Regardless of Vettel's issues.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

What race do we expect Daniel to assume the team leader role? Assuming he continues to perform ahead obviously.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Laura23 »

infi24r wrote:What race do we expect Daniel to assume the team leader role? Assuming he continues to perform ahead obviously.

He won't. Not unless Red Bull are in with a shot at the title which is unlikely. They'll just let them race each other as equals.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:What race do we expect Daniel to assume the team leader role? Assuming he continues to perform ahead obviously.

He won't. Not unless Red Bull are in with a shot at the title which is unlikely. They'll just let them race each other as equals.


I didn't mean like a Ferrari number 1 situation, I mean the driver who pushes development, the driver the team starts to mention most with their results. You still hear it a lot in the media the team are really trying to explain why Vettel isn't performing, its seen as unusual that he is not their lead driver at the moment. We will have a tipping point that this stops being seen as abnormal and becomes the new norm if it keeps up. For instance you never heard the team explain why Vettel was ahead of Webber, it was just accepted.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Balibari »

Peter77 wrote:
infi24r wrote:
Balibari wrote:I've now heard three of the F1 observers I most respect (Gary Anderson, Mark Hughes, Martin brundle) make the same point. From trackside they say it's apparent Vettel is trying to drive this car the same way he he did the blown floor cars, and it isn't working. Two of them theorised that with the STR having relatively little downforce Ricciardo is already adapted to the current requirements and that's why he's been quicker.

And if a team replaces a 'chassis' (which doesn't really even exist in a form we'd identify nowadays anyway) without finding a specific problem and without there having been a significant collision, it's basically just a placebo for the driver, not a real change. But as someone said above, if it works, it works.


We don't need to make excuses for Daniel, such as him being 'used' to it at Toro Rosso.

He simply adapted to the new driving style better. Although I find it strange that Vettel can't manage to do that by race 4.


yep these "used" to it excuses are getting old. The torro rosso also had an exhuast blown diffuser.
Every single car on the grid had an exhuast blown diffuser last year if im not mistaken. So every driver is in the same boat.
Vettel is not adjusting to a car with less rear downforce as every single driver on the grid has had to make an adjustment to less rear downforce this year. Vettel is adjusting to driving a slower car that isn't a rocketship.

It isn't an excuse it's an explanation. It doesn't excuse poor pace to say someone perhaps doesn't have the ability to adapt, or that one set of regs inherently suits them better than another.

The technology may have been on all the cars to some extent but it was obviously far more effective on the RBR han others, and a more significant element in its overall performance level. It also seems likely Vettel had a uniquely effective way with it. Drivers now have incredibly high levels of professionalism and consistency, with all sorts of analysis and development tools at their disposal. There's less of a difference amongst them than ever before, in my view. With such tiny margins regulation changes inevitably swing the balance of power from one to another. The best should adapt and always be quick, others might be exceptional only when car characteristics are exactly suited to them and merely good when they aren't. I don't know whether Vettel will adapt and get on top of Ricciardo, but I find this the most likely explanation for his current woes. Vettel faces a bigger change than Ricciardo, is perhaps less well equipped to adapt to that change, and is almost certainly trying to adapt to something inherently less to his liking. (Possible) explanation, not an excuse.

I'm not denigrating Ricciardo. He's been better than Vettel in these cars, even if I think Vettel would have beaten him in the last ones it doesn't mean anything. I suspect I'll always think Vettel was monumentally fortunate to have so many favourable factors converge in such a way he was able to win those four titles. No set of regs is inherently more valid than another... though I automatically give less credit to every race won on the chocolate clown tyres of recent seasons.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Prema »

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:What race do we expect Daniel to assume the team leader role? Assuming he continues to perform ahead obviously.

He won't. Not unless Red Bull are in with a shot at the title which is unlikely. They'll just let them race each other as equals.


I didn't mean like a Ferrari number 1 situation, I mean the driver who pushes development, the driver the team starts to mention most with their results. You still hear it a lot in the media the team are really trying to explain why Vettel isn't performing, its seen as unusual that he is not their lead driver at the moment. We will have a tipping point that this stops being seen as abnormal and becomes the new norm if it keeps up. For instance you never heard the team explain why Vettel was ahead of Webber, it was just accepted.


You mean, what race do we expect Daniel to become "Schumacher"? Well, at least, let him first become a WDC, to start with. Who knows what the future holds in for the young man...

stranger
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:55 pm

Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by stranger »

Of course they will try anything and everything to get their golden boy back in the limelight.

They better hope Ricciardo is not again faster at Barcelona or it will be an embarrassment.

stranger
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:55 pm

Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by stranger »

And this is an interesting comment from Helmut
"2014 is so complex that even the engineers don't understand everything.

"That makes it even harder for Seb to tune the car to his needs."



Sounds like excuses to me, 2014 being complex should be just as much an inconvenience to all drivers, including the less experienced Ricciardo.

They are now rebuilding the whole car without even identifying any issue. Good luck morons!

orion_f1
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Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 1:20 pm

Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by orion_f1 »

going_the_distance wrote:Actually I'm going to correct my own view here, there is an article out in German today that I've just read with Marko commenting on Ricciardo:

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 82090.html

Some positive things, but also really interesting to hear it confirmed that there were people in the team that didn't want him (there were reports that Horner and Newey wanted Raikkonen over Ric) and that the team harmony is much better with Ricciardo rather than Webber. Some unflattering Webber stuff in there, unsuprisingly!


Not surprising at all, Webber was an 'outsider' while Ricciardo came through the ranks of Red Bull's driver programme, which is headed by Marko

Zoue
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Zoue »

stranger wrote:Of course they will try anything and everything to get their golden boy back in the limelight.

They better hope Ricciardo is not again faster at Barcelona or it will be an embarrassment.

why an embarrassment? Is Lewis being as quick as Alonso an embarrassment?

Zoue
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am

Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Zoue »

infi24r wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
infi24r wrote:What race do we expect Daniel to assume the team leader role? Assuming he continues to perform ahead obviously.

He won't. Not unless Red Bull are in with a shot at the title which is unlikely. They'll just let them race each other as equals.


I didn't mean like a Ferrari number 1 situation, I mean the driver who pushes development, the driver the team starts to mention most with their results. You still hear it a lot in the media the team are really trying to explain why Vettel isn't performing, its seen as unusual that he is not their lead driver at the moment. We will have a tipping point that this stops being seen as abnormal and becomes the new norm if it keeps up. For instance you never heard the team explain why Vettel was ahead of Webber, it was just accepted.
true, but it was accepted because it was the norm. Vettel has been the fastest man in F1 for a while now so for him to be suffering problems is unusual, as is him being slower than his team mate. But he's clearly not 100% comfortable yet and the team know what kind of reward they will get when he is, so I'm sure that it will be a while yet before they "tune him out," if at all

AnRs
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by AnRs »

I would like to compare Vettel 2014 with Alonso in 2008, comin from straight wins and being the fastest for a couple off years and have to relearn, it can take some time, have patience...

orion_f1
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by orion_f1 »

stranger wrote:Of course they will try anything and everything to get their golden boy back in the limelight.


Yes, how weird that a team will expend any effort to improve results!

stranger wrote:They better hope Ricciardo is not again faster at Barcelona or it will be an embarrassment.


Why would it be? The idea is to for vettel to go faster, certainly, but in Barcelona there will be a lot of updates, Red Bull will be also wanting Ricciardo to go faster as well. It will be embarassing to Red Bull if at Barcelona they lose ground to Mercedes, Ferrari and other teams, not if Ricciardo is faster then Vettel.
For Vettel personally it will be uncomfortable if Ricciardo beats him again in Barcelona, but he will be happy as long as he is seeing improvement and closing the gap. He knows from his own championship-winning experience that a season is long and there is time to catch up (even more so this year with double points)
If come the end of the season Ricciardo has comprehensively beaten Vettel, yes that would be embarassing. If they end up more or less equal... well, Alonso was equalled by rookie Hamilton, and I don't think anyone thinks any less of Alonso because of that*. Ricciardo is developing as a better and better driver, and it's better for F1 if he can reach or even surpass Vettel's level.

*Only talking about race results here not behind-the-scenes stuff

F1yer
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by F1yer »

Surely the cheapest way to find out is switch the chassis with Dan.

If Seb gains significantly over Dan - then the chasis was faulty - then build one for Seb or Dan
If Seb is still behind Dan - "Tough Luck" :)

Building a new one without evidence is a waste of expense IMO.

stranger
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:55 pm

Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by stranger »

Zoue wrote:
stranger wrote:Of course they will try anything and everything to get their golden boy back in the limelight.

They better hope Ricciardo is not again faster at Barcelona or it will be an embarrassment.

why an embarrassment? Is Lewis being as quick as Alonso an embarrassment?


Uhh, ok lets get some facts sorted first

Sebastian = driver for Red Bull for 5 years in a row, won the last 4 titles in a row and had the team build the car around him, support him, praise him, and let him override team orders.

Daniel = Has not driven for Red Bull before, less experienced overall.

Daniel has outpaced Sebastian almost the entire season so far. So the team is now rebuilding Seb's car and will spend a lot of money to try and get Sebastian up to Daniel's level.

So your saying after all this, if Daniel AGAIN outpaces Sebastian this time at Spain, its not embarrasing? Its completely embarrassing and I can't wait to see Helmut and Seb's faces droop in acceptance that Daniel is superior to him.


Lewis & Alonso you say? Two notable world champion drivers, but proven their mark. What's that got anything to do with it.

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