Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

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Peter77
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Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Peter77 »

Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

Let's see starting from Spain how that works for them.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

So, then we will see Vettel beating Ricciardo easily and comprehensively from Spain on - as always expected.
8)

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by imbrugliaboy »

So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mcdo »

imbrugliaboy wrote:So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.

It'll be worth every penny if it works
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Lotus49 »

Even if there's nothing wrong with it and it's all psychological, If it works then it's worth it for them.

No?
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Lotus49 »

@mcdo

Too quick for me bud
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Prema »

imbrugliaboy wrote:So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.


How about a possibility of implementing some improvements in the new chassis, making some changes an then finding out how that works as compared to the old one? Or is it that only the exact replica of the old one that is being allowed to be produced?

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by stevey »

does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?

Also they have not confirmed any problems with the Chassis so it looks to be an excuse to defend a 4 x wdc poor results, I dont know why they dont accept the fact that form fluctuates and will eventually swing back around.

Worst case scenario, it does not improve and then there is a big psychological impact on sebastian.

But we have to remember all the updates coming to spain so it may just be that he gets a package to his liking and his style and starts winning from that point anyway. I dont think the new chassis will be ready for spain as they will be focusing on all the new updates etc.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by RaggedMan »

Of course only psychologically weak drivers get a new chassis when there's been no major shunt to justify it.
http://en.espnf1.com/usa/motorsport/story/136051.html
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Prema wrote:
imbrugliaboy wrote:So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.


How about a possibility of implementing some improvements in the new chassis, making some changes an then finding out how that works as compared to the old one? Or is it that only the exact replica of the old one that is being allowed to be produced?


You mean that Vettel will get a better car than Ricciardo so that he can beat him?

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by going_the_distance »

The article reads as if Marko is clutching at whatever external straw he can find to explain Vettel's struggles.

A new chassis isn't always a panacea. They can take time to adjust to, to break in. The previous one will need to be genuinely faulty or a step forward in weight of materials for it to make a difference.

I've no doubt Vettel will be faster than Ricciardo in Spain though. Both Horner and Marko have implied a big push behind the scenes to get the car to his liking. No doubt they have something in the pipeline to make that the RB10's rear stickier in slow corners.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by stevey »

RaggedMan wrote:Of course only psychologically weak drivers get a new chassis when there's been no major shunt to justify it.
http://en.espnf1.com/usa/motorsport/story/136051.html



Apart from damage was found and it's telemetry data was reporting differences to Nico's when on the same setup and running at the same time.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by pokerman »

Peter77 wrote:Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-

The car seemed to be perfectly ok in Malaysia
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by going_the_distance »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Prema wrote:
imbrugliaboy wrote:So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.


How about a possibility of implementing some improvements in the new chassis, making some changes an then finding out how that works as compared to the old one? Or is it that only the exact replica of the old one that is being allowed to be produced?


You mean that Vettel will get a better car than Ricciardo so that he can beat him?


The design is homologated but I understand they can usually make the chassis lighter as the year goes on, giving the driver more ballast to play with.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by pokerman »

RaggedMan wrote:Of course only psychologically weak drivers get a new chassis when there's been no major shunt to justify it.
http://en.espnf1.com/usa/motorsport/story/136051.html

Hamilton chassis was cracked, is Vettel's chassis cracked?
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-

The car seemed to be perfectly ok in Malaysia


... afte which it has done 2 races that went from not great to downright bad for Vettel.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

going_the_distance wrote:The article reads as if Marko is clutching at whatever external straw he can find to explain Vettel's struggles.


No, it reads as if they don't really understand why Vettel is suddenly not strong where he used to be strong - tyre wear and setup.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by going_the_distance »

mds wrote:
stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.


A chassis takes months to build. They are usually allocated on a needs basis (damage or total write off of previous one) but you'd imagine the No. 1 driver would get preference.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-

The car seemed to be perfectly ok in Malaysia


... afte which it has done 2 races that went from not great to downright bad for Vettel.

But there is no inference that the car has got worse or different
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:The article reads as if Marko is clutching at whatever external straw he can find to explain Vettel's struggles.


No, it reads as if they don't really understand why Vettel is suddenly not strong where he used to be strong - tyre wear and setup.

Well the more cynical of us might suggest no EBD
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Zoue »

going_the_distance wrote:
mds wrote:
stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.


A chassis takes months to build. They are usually allocated on a needs basis (damage or total write off of previous one) but you'd imagine the No. 1 driver would get preference.

But they must have spares, surely? If one is damaged in an accident they can't wait months for a replacement

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-

The car seemed to be perfectly ok in Malaysia


... afte which it has done 2 races that went from not great to downright bad for Vettel.

But there is no inference that the car has got worse or different


There is no way of telling for us whether the car gone bad or Vettel suddenly losing his strenghts. If next race is a lot better, than we'll have a hint.

Taking it at face value, they don't understand why they Vettel had serious pace issues in China and (to a lesser extent) Bahrain so they suspect the car at fault. Seems logical.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:The article reads as if Marko is clutching at whatever external straw he can find to explain Vettel's struggles.


No, it reads as if they don't really understand why Vettel is suddenly not strong where he used to be strong - tyre wear and setup.

Well the more cynical of us might suggest no EBD


Ah so they had a trick EBD in Malaysia then?
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Balibari »

I've now heard three of the F1 observers I most respect (Gary Anderson, Mark Hughes, Martin brundle) make the same point. From trackside they say it's apparent Vettel is trying to drive this car the same way he he did the blown floor cars, and it isn't working. Two of them theorised that with the STR having relatively little downforce Ricciardo is already adapted to the current requirements and that's why he's been quicker.

And if a team replaces a 'chassis' (which doesn't really even exist in a form we'd identify nowadays anyway) without finding a specific problem and without there having been a significant collision, it's basically just a placebo for the driver, not a real change. But as someone said above, if it works, it works.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-

The car seemed to be perfectly ok in Malaysia


... afte which it has done 2 races that went from not great to downright bad for Vettel.

But there is no inference that the car has got worse or different


There is no way of telling for us whether the car gone bad or Vettel suddenly losing his strenghts. If next race is a lot better, than we'll have a hint.

Taking it at face value, they don't understand why they Vettel had serious pace issues in China and (to a lesser extent) Bahrain so they suspect the car at fault. Seems logical.

I thought China was a problem with the PU, if it was the car then yes there could be a problem
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by UnlikeUday »

My oh My, how the tables seem to have turned?

Good to see that the no 2 driver is having things his way (unintentionally).
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:The article reads as if Marko is clutching at whatever external straw he can find to explain Vettel's struggles.


No, it reads as if they don't really understand why Vettel is suddenly not strong where he used to be strong - tyre wear and setup.

Well the more cynical of us might suggest no EBD


Ah so they had a trick EBD in Malaysia then?

Well the complaint is of a lack of stability at the back of the car
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by going_the_distance »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Peter77 wrote:Red Bull believe the reason for Sebastian Vettel's lack of pace so far this year has to do with a fault in his RB10's chassis.

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/92 ... new-Suzie-

The car seemed to be perfectly ok in Malaysia


... afte which it has done 2 races that went from not great to downright bad for Vettel.

But there is no inference that the car has got worse or different


There is no way of telling for us whether the car gone bad or Vettel suddenly losing his strenghts. If next race is a lot better, than we'll have a hint.

Taking it at face value, they don't understand why they Vettel had serious pace issues in China and (to a lesser extent) Bahrain so they suspect the car at fault. Seems logical.


Some of it might be Ricciardo improving. He is settling in with his engineers and improving his setup. Dan was always a gradual improver at STR.

I'm not sure it's all Vettel and his struggles with no EBD.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Peter77 »

mds wrote:
stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.



In 2010 Webber was beating Vettel and crushed him at monaco. After Vettel complaining that Webber is faster they said it must be the chassis's fault not yours. So a brand new custom made chassis with all the latest updates was built just for him and he's perfomance went up. Redbull then claimed the old spec chassis was cracked hence why it needed replacing and was no good and could not be repaired for some reason.
When webber had the big accident and damaged his car later on that season now magically the old Vettel cracked chassis that was no good and was older spec with none of the new updates was now awesome and the crack easily fixed and was given to Webber. Webber's performance was never able to match Vettel from that point on overall and he lost the championship at the final race as we all know.]

I just hope Ricciardo is treated equally this year. If Vettel starts performing better if they find a crack in the chassis or something and build Vettel a brand new chassis which makes him faster. I hope then if RIcciardo wants a new chassis they dont just fix the old cracked vettel chassis and give it to Ricciardo like they did with webber. Ricciardo should also get a brand new chassis built from scratch also and treated equally. He definately is fast and doesn't deserve the Webber treatment.
Last edited by Peter77 on Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

Peter77 wrote:Sounds like 2010 all over again.


This part is utter nonsense. There has been exactly zero hints of bias at RBR. There have been 2 TO's in favor of Ricciardo. How on earth could you compare that to 2010?
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Prema »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Prema wrote:
imbrugliaboy wrote:So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.


How about a possibility of implementing some improvements in the new chassis, making some changes an then finding out how that works as compared to the old one? Or is it that only the exact replica of the old one that is being allowed to be produced?


You mean that Vettel will get a better car than Ricciardo so that he can beat him?


No.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by speedysoprano »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Prema wrote:
imbrugliaboy wrote:So they haven't identified any issue with the chassis but are building a new one just in case?
Seems an expensive way to fault find to me.


How about a possibility of implementing some improvements in the new chassis, making some changes an then finding out how that works as compared to the old one? Or is it that only the exact replica of the old one that is being allowed to be produced?


You mean that Vettel will get a better car than Ricciardo so that he can beat him?


I'm wondering if this is code for "I want a better car than Daniel, so there."

We shall see...
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

going_the_distance wrote:Some of it might be Ricciardo improving. He is settling in with his engineers and improving his setup. Dan was always a gradual improver at STR.

I'm not sure it's all Vettel and his struggles with no EBD.


Very much possible that Ricciardo is improving. One would expect that. I don't think that this would suddenly elevate him to being 1 second per lap faster than Vettel, as in China.

With all the talks last year of the performance difference of best to worst driver in F1 being no more than 1 second, the logical conclusion would be that the idea of a car problem being at cause here isn't too far-fetched.
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
going_the_distance wrote:The article reads as if Marko is clutching at whatever external straw he can find to explain Vettel's struggles.


No, it reads as if they don't really understand why Vettel is suddenly not strong where he used to be strong - tyre wear and setup.

Well the more cynical of us might suggest no EBD


Ah so they had a trick EBD in Malaysia then?

Well the complaint is of a lack of stability at the back of the car


So then it was stable in Malaysia and suddenly lost all of it after Malaysia?
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Prema »

going_the_distance wrote:
mds wrote:
stevey wrote:does this mean that Daniel will get a new chassis if Sebastian starts to beat him?


I don't see a reason Ricciardio won't get a new chassis if his performances are not up to the level they now know he's capable of.


A chassis takes months to build. They are usually allocated on a needs basis (damage or total write off of previous one) but you'd imagine the No. 1 driver would get preference.


And according to the latest two TOs being issued, that supposed No. 1 driver in RB would be ....... ?

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by Pedrosa_4_Ever »

Incoming claims from the fanboys that he'll now win the title...
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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

Balibari wrote:I've now heard three of the F1 observers I most respect (Gary Anderson, Mark Hughes, Martin brundle) make the same point. From trackside they say it's apparent Vettel is trying to drive this car the same way he he did the blown floor cars, and it isn't working. Two of them theorised that with the STR having relatively little downforce Ricciardo is already adapted to the current requirements and that's why he's been quicker.

And if a team replaces a 'chassis' (which doesn't really even exist in a form we'd identify nowadays anyway) without finding a specific problem and without there having been a significant collision, it's basically just a placebo for the driver, not a real change. But as someone said above, if it works, it works.


We don't need to make excuses for Daniel, such as him being 'used' to it at Toro Rosso.

He simply adapted to the new driving style better. Although I find it strange that Vettel can't manage to do that by race 4.

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Re: Redbull Believe Vettel's chassis is faulty

Post by infi24r »

The article says they haven't found anything wrong with it but they're investigating.

So in other words, nothing.

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