Drivers to Strike?

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hydra
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Drivers to Strike?

Post by hydra »

Some of the drivers are unhappy about certain conditions and I have hears they have signed an agreement to strike if it goes on, Hamilton is the only one who hasn't signed....

It mentioned drivers like Romain Grosjaen, Hulkenberg, Sutil and Kobayashi are fed up with not being paid, and don't want to go to the press about it as they believe it is not their team's fault as the costs of F1 are increasing and some teams simply don't have the funds and drivers are easily replaceable in those teams.

Have you heard something about this? I got the story from a news site but it's not in english so the link may not help. Could be something in the making....

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Beschy
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Beschy »

What?
Schumacher was better than Senna.


Siao7
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Siao7 »

First time I hear this. It will be quite big if true. Glad if all the drivers stick together, the ones that do get paid and the ones that not.

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Toby.
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Toby. »

Haven't heard a word about it. I've got to say it sounds a little bit made up.

How could teams not paying a team be anything but the team's fault? If the teams can't afford the drivers then they shouldn't offer the contracts. Silly.
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stevey
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by stevey »

hydra wrote:Some of the drivers are unhappy about certain conditions and I have hears they have signed an agreement to strike if it goes on, Hamilton is the only one who hasn't signed....

It mentioned drivers like Romain Grosjaen, Hulkenberg, Sutil and Kobayashi are fed up with not being paid, and don't want to go to the press about it as they believe it is not their team's fault as the costs of F1 are increasing and some teams simply don't have the funds and drivers are easily replaceable in those teams.

Have you heard something about this? I got the story from a news site but it's not in english so the link may not help. Could be something in the making....



You said it yourself, drivers are easily replacable so the strike threat is a pretty empty all in all and given its over money the publice wont get behind them as much as they would if it was to do with safety etc.

That being said I also doubt massively what is being said especially as no where else is reporting it and the fact it says LH is the only one not to sign. looks like a bit of a troll to me.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by stevey »

Ah so its not that they dont get paid its that some of them havent been paid what their owed.

I suppose if you dont get paid you could go on strike, but it would be hard to get other people to strike who do get paid on time.

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flavio81
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by flavio81 »

stevey wrote:
hydra wrote:Some of the drivers are unhappy about certain conditions and I have hears they have signed an agreement to strike if it goes on, Hamilton is the only one who hasn't signed....

It mentioned drivers like Romain Grosjaen, Hulkenberg, Sutil and Kobayashi are fed up with not being paid, and don't want to go to the press about it as they believe it is not their team's fault as the costs of F1 are increasing and some teams simply don't have the funds and drivers are easily replaceable in those teams.

Have you heard something about this? I got the story from a news site but it's not in english so the link may not help. Could be something in the making....



You said it yourself, drivers are easily replacable so the strike threat is a pretty empty all in all


It has been done in the past, in 1982, when drivers weren't the product-branding faces they are now, and when all kinds of testing were allowed, and thus they were even more replaceable than today. The drivers strike was completely successful.

And BTW drivers are *not* so easily replaceable once the season has started. Any F1 driver can step inside the cockpit and drive it, but to be sure your driver is extracting the maximum potential of the car, he/she would need to have worked over the winter on set-up, simulation, and have a lot of mileage on your car to adapt to it.

So by replacing your regular F1 driver with a substitute, you are paying a steep speed penalty which may as well be more expensive to overcome (with technology) than just by settling matters with the regular F1 driver and getting him back in the cockpit.

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flavio81
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by flavio81 »

stevey wrote:I suppose if you dont get paid you could go on strike, but it would be hard to get other people to strike who do get paid on time.


"It is believed that, under the auspices of their union, the GPDA, the Formula 1 drivers have signed a document vowing to strike if the growing trend of not being paid continues."

This would mean the strike would include all GPDA members, which IIRC are all F1 drivers except Vettel and Kimi (?)
Lewis and Kimi have supposedly not signed the document.

hydra
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by hydra »

thanks for the link so they can see I'm not "trolling".

We all know what happened with Lotus and Raikkonen, and it wasn't Kimi's fault he was better than Lotus have budgeted for. I simply do not understand how you cannot pay a worker after he's done the work for you, that should be a criminal offence.

Who'd care if the 4 mentioned drivers did strike? People would hardly notice, wheras if Alonso, Hamilton and those drivers threatened a strike it would be taken more seriously, especially Alonso, he's always got some juicy info on his own team :)

I do find it surprising that Hamilton would be the only driver not to sign and that Rosberg, Alonso and other did sign it....unless Hamilton's totally a rapper now, and doesn't want to be seen as whining about a lack of money.

Hopefully nothing more will develop out this.

and here's a link for all you troll hunters out there

http://www.tportal.hr/sport/automoto/32 ... ajkom.html

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by stevey »

flavio81 wrote:
stevey wrote:
hydra wrote:Some of the drivers are unhappy about certain conditions and I have hears they have signed an agreement to strike if it goes on, Hamilton is the only one who hasn't signed....

It mentioned drivers like Romain Grosjaen, Hulkenberg, Sutil and Kobayashi are fed up with not being paid, and don't want to go to the press about it as they believe it is not their team's fault as the costs of F1 are increasing and some teams simply don't have the funds and drivers are easily replaceable in those teams.

Have you heard something about this? I got the story from a news site but it's not in english so the link may not help. Could be something in the making....



You said it yourself, drivers are easily replacable so the strike threat is a pretty empty all in all


It has been done in the past, in 1982, when drivers weren't the product-branding faces they are now, and when all kinds of testing were allowed, and thus they were even more replaceable than today. The drivers strike was completely successful.

And BTW drivers are *not* so easily replaceable once the season has started. Any F1 driver can step inside the cockpit and drive it, but to be sure your driver is extracting the maximum potential of the car, he/she would need to have worked over the winter on set-up, simulation, and have a lot of mileage on your car to adapt to it.

So by replacing your regular F1 driver with a substitute, you are paying a steep speed penalty which may as well be more expensive to overcome (with technology) than just by settling matters with the regular F1 driver and getting him back in the cockpit.



I believe the strikes of the past were done on safety grounds not on private teams not being able to pay there own staff. If they were to strike they wouldnt get the public support needed to make it effective.

As for the impact of replacing a driver its been done plenty of times and each team has reserve drivers so I dont think they'd be put too far out.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Zoue »

hydra wrote:thanks for the link so they can see I'm not "trolling".

We all know what happened with Lotus and Raikkonen, and it wasn't Kimi's fault he was better than Lotus have budgeted for. I simply do not understand how you cannot pay a worker after he's done the work for you, that should be a criminal offence.

Who'd care if the 4 mentioned drivers did strike? People would hardly notice, wheras if Alonso, Hamilton and those drivers threatened a strike it would be taken more seriously, especially Alonso, he's always got some juicy info on his own team :)

I do find it surprising that Hamilton would be the only driver not to sign and that Rosberg, Alonso and other did sign it....unless Hamilton's totally a rapper now, and doesn't want to be seen as whining about a lack of money.

Hopefully nothing more will develop out this.

and here's a link for all you troll hunters out there

http://www.tportal.hr/sport/automoto/32 ... ajkom.html

In the report I saw Kimi also did not sign

hydra
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by hydra »

strange that he wouldn't sign something like that, but he isn't expecting the same problems at Ferrari as in Lotus....but Kimi being Kimi he just didn't sign it because he didn't want to do any extra work :)
(I love Kimi and his attitude)

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Seanie
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Seanie »

Fail to see how this helps their cause, most of the drivers affected are at new teams who I presume are paying their wages now.
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by pokerman »

Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Seanie »

pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:
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Ennis
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Ennis »

I remember us all thinking how shocking it was that Kimi hadn't been paid.

Cut to Ant Davidson on Sky and he was saying that there has to be more to it, as its actually the norm for drivers not to get paid throughout the season. Generally they just get a lump sum when the season ends.

I call nonsense on this one.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Toby. »

hydra wrote:....but Kimi being Kimi he just didn't sign it because he didn't want to do any extra work :)
(I love Kimi and his attitude)


Laziness?
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Qiwater
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Qiwater »

Doesn't make sense at all. So a driver under contract with a team and said team has not breached any part of their contract and has paid them
well and on time, can go on strike because other driver/drivers in different teams with a different contracts are unhappy.
Nah!! won't happen.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Even if this came to pass, nothing good will come from it. What driver, making many millions of dollars a year and possibly on the cusp of making a whole lot more and winning the WDC will throw it all away for the sake of a virtual stranger?

Let's talk about contracts and some consequences. The team is obliged to pay the driver, the driver is obliged to race. As in the case of Kimi and Lotus, they didn't pay him, he walked away. His absence was sorely felt in the last two races of the season, and the team suffered financial loss. Personally, I have worked on a few construction jobs, and if I didn't see my money on payday, au revoir, I'm gone and a complaint will be formally lodged with the appropriate authorities. Funny thing, I always got my money eventually, but I don't work for people who don't pay me on time.

Anyone who enters Formula One is fully aware of how financially fragile it is, and that some teams perpetually walk the tightrope between survival and bankruptcy. I can understand why the GPDA bands together on such issues as driver safety, but IMO, salaries and payments are an individual issue. If a driver isn't getting his money, he can leave and seek employment somewhere else. Sure, it won't be Formula One anymore, and the glamor and pay won't be as exciting. But it's a job, not an entitlement.

Here's the cruncher .... if some teams are so cash-strapped they have trouble finding cash for their star employee, what about all the mechanics, engineers, and support staff on the team? Do you think they are exempt, that the team hasn't asked them to accept less money too? These are not millionaires and a job just waiting for them if they quit, but working class sods with families and bills.

These drivers are spoiled and selfish pussies, and if they want my support on this issue, they have to include everyone who is not getting their full and promised salaries.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by pokerman »

Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

You don't think that would give the other teams and engine manufacturers time to catch up?
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

Has Kimi signed as well? Usually the reason there is "all the drivers except for Hamilton" story is because Hamilton is not a member of the GPDA, and neither is Kimi. However, as he has his payment issues last it maybe he opted in on ot.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Laura23 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

Has Kimi signed as well? Usually the reason there is "all the drivers except for Hamilton" story is because Hamilton is not a member of the GPDA, and neither is Kimi. However, as he has his payment issues last it maybe he opted in on ot.

Kimi is being paid now so I doubt he cares much about the others.
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by RickM »

Toby. wrote:
hydra wrote:....but Kimi being Kimi he just didn't sign it because he didn't want to do any extra work :)
(I love Kimi and his attitude)


Laziness?

Image more like.
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Zoue
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Zoue »

RickM wrote:
Toby. wrote:
hydra wrote:....but Kimi being Kimi he just didn't sign it because he didn't want to do any extra work :)
(I love Kimi and his attitude)


Laziness?

Image more like.

Don't forget Kimi's not a member of the GPDA, which is instigating this.

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Laura23
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Laura23 »

RickM wrote:
Toby. wrote:
hydra wrote:....but Kimi being Kimi he just didn't sign it because he didn't want to do any extra work :)
(I love Kimi and his attitude)


Laziness?

Image more like.

More he just genuinely isn't interested in the other drivers. Kimi has always done his own thing and kept out of the bullshit of others. This will be no different.
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by pokerman »

Laura23 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

Has Kimi signed as well? Usually the reason there is "all the drivers except for Hamilton" story is because Hamilton is not a member of the GPDA, and neither is Kimi. However, as he has his payment issues last it maybe he opted in on ot.

Kimi is being paid now so I doubt he cares much about the others.

Are you sure Kimi has been paid, reading the Kimi thread he hasn't?
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by James14 »

^ I think it means Kimi is being paid now (by Ferrari) but is still probably owed money by Lotus.

wire2004
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by wire2004 »

Simply put. The drivers will not strike.
Lots of examples of drivers threatening to strike. Nothing has come off.
Watch the Adelaide go in 89. Drivers threatening to strike over the conditions. So Bernie (who's running the weekend for some reason) holds his nerve. Let's the pre race countdown commence. 30 seconds to go before the formation lap. Prost piquet and others are at the starting station arguing. Senna is in his car.

They throw the green flag for the formation lap. Senna drives off. Followed eventually by most of the grid. Drivers still being belted up. Senna started the race when about 8 drivers were standing on the grid. The others still on the formation lap.

The most famous of failed protests

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by flavio81 »

wire2004 wrote:Simply put. The drivers will not strike.
Lots of examples of drivers threatening to strike. Nothing has come off.
Watch the Adelaide go in 89. Drivers threatening to strike over the conditions. So Bernie (who's running the weekend for some reason) holds his nerve. Let's the pre race countdown commence. 30 seconds to go before the formation lap. Prost piquet and others are at the starting station arguing. Senna is in his car.

They throw the green flag for the formation lap. Senna drives off. Followed eventually by most of the grid. Drivers still being belted up. Senna started the race when about 8 drivers were standing on the grid. The others still on the formation lap.

The most famous of failed protests


That's not a proper example. That was a small, hastily assembled protest regarding the weather conditions of a particular race.

For a proper example see the 1982 drivers strike, which was successful, organized and planned well before the actual race, and which was about driver contracts' conditions.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Irbis »

LH and Kimi classy as always, I see.

Blinky McSquinty wrote:Here's the cruncher .... if some teams are so cash-strapped they have trouble finding cash for their star employee, what about all the mechanics, engineers, and support staff on the team? Do you think they are exempt, that the team hasn't asked them to accept less money too? These are not millionaires and a job just waiting for them if they quit, but working class sods with families and bills.

Except, they are far easier to pay than 'star employees'.

I said that last year in Kimi threads and I will repeat it now: if I had a choice of paying the crew or paying the driver, I'd always pay the crew first. Guy who earns in a year more than the crewmen do in a lifetime can afford to wait till the end of the year when team gets performance pay. Crews cannot.

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Fiki »

Irbis wrote:LH and Kimi classy as always, I see.

Blinky McSquinty wrote:Here's the cruncher .... if some teams are so cash-strapped they have trouble finding cash for their star employee, what about all the mechanics, engineers, and support staff on the team? Do you think they are exempt, that the team hasn't asked them to accept less money too? These are not millionaires and a job just waiting for them if they quit, but working class sods with families and bills.

Except, they are far easier to pay than 'star employees'.

I said that last year in Kimi threads and I will repeat it now: if I had a choice of paying the crew or paying the driver, I'd always pay the crew first. Guy who earns in a year more than the crewmen do in a lifetime can afford to wait till the end of the year when team gets performance pay. Crews cannot.

But not every driver is paid as though he can walk on water...
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wire2004
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by wire2004 »

flavio81 wrote:
wire2004 wrote:Simply put. The drivers will not strike.
Lots of examples of drivers threatening to strike. Nothing has come off.
Watch the Adelaide go in 89. Drivers threatening to strike over the conditions. So Bernie (who's running the weekend for some reason) holds his nerve. Let's the pre race countdown commence. 30 seconds to go before the formation lap. Prost piquet and others are at the starting station arguing. Senna is in his car.

They throw the green flag for the formation lap. Senna drives off. Followed eventually by most of the grid. Drivers still being belted up. Senna started the race when about 8 drivers were standing on the grid. The others still on the formation lap.

The most famous of failed protests


That's not a proper example. That was a small, hastily assembled protest regarding the weather conditions of a particular race.

For a proper example see the 1982 drivers strike, which was successful, organized and planned well before the actual race, and which was about driver contracts' conditions.


The difference in 82 to 89 is Bernie was not running the show as he is now. In 82. Bernie only had brabham to worry about. 89 he had the whole meeting to worry about. 2014. He has the whole commercial aspect to think of. It won't happen

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Zoue »

Irbis wrote:LH and Kimi classy as always, I see.

Blinky McSquinty wrote:Here's the cruncher .... if some teams are so cash-strapped they have trouble finding cash for their star employee, what about all the mechanics, engineers, and support staff on the team? Do you think they are exempt, that the team hasn't asked them to accept less money too? These are not millionaires and a job just waiting for them if they quit, but working class sods with families and bills.

Except, they are far easier to pay than 'star employees'.

I said that last year in Kimi threads and I will repeat it now: if I had a choice of paying the crew or paying the driver, I'd always pay the crew first. Guy who earns in a year more than the crewmen do in a lifetime can afford to wait till the end of the year when team gets performance pay. Crews cannot.

But in the case of Kimi at least he still hasn't been paid for last year. How long do you think he should wait before asking for his money?

Some of the drivers on that list aren't at the top of the payment tree. I think you are asking a lot of them to just shrug their shoulders and hope that they might see their money in the fullness of time. They have not inconsiderable expenses themselves while travelling with the F1 circus and it's not unreasonable for them to expect their employer to meet their obligations. By all accounts we're not talking about a few weeks' delay in all cases.

And I think a fundamental point in all this has been missed and it's this: the drivers' payments are not some sort of gentlemen's agreements; they are part of the contracts the teams have set up with them. If the teams are already struggling with payments just a few races in, then they surely must have been aware of this before the end of last year. It's not the drivers who are at fault for expecting the teams to honour the terms they agreed with them

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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Seanie »

pokerman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

You don't think that would give the other teams and engine manufacturers time to catch up?

What are they going to do with no drivers actually driving though.

I don't think one race is going to give Renault any kind of advantage.

And this isn't about Lewis Hamilton.
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by pokerman »

Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

You don't think that would give the other teams and engine manufacturers time to catch up?

What are they going to do with no drivers actually driving though.

I don't think one race is going to give Renault any kind of advantage.

And this isn't about Lewis Hamilton.

No but he was the one being singled out and i was simply hypothesising.

Missing any race gives the rest time to make up some of the gap
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Seanie »

pokerman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:Well if i was Hamilton with a good chance of being WDC i don't think i would be looking to go on strike

Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

You don't think that would give the other teams and engine manufacturers time to catch up?

What are they going to do with no drivers actually driving though.

I don't think one race is going to give Renault any kind of advantage.

And this isn't about Lewis Hamilton.

No but he was the one being singled out and i was simply hypothesising.

Missing any race gives the rest time to make up some of the gap

And Mercedes would use it as an excuse to put their feet up? :uhoh:
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by pokerman »

Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Seanie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Seanie wrote:Well, if everyone is on strike in support of the few unpaid, you're not going to lose anything are you? :uhoh:

You don't think that would give the other teams and engine manufacturers time to catch up?

What are they going to do with no drivers actually driving though.

I don't think one race is going to give Renault any kind of advantage.

And this isn't about Lewis Hamilton.

No but he was the one being singled out and i was simply hypothesising.

Missing any race gives the rest time to make up some of the gap

And Mercedes would use it as an excuse to put their feet up? :uhoh:

I think its a law of diminishing returns that the other teams have more scope in which to improve, look how much Red Bull managed to improve from winter testing
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by Seanie »

Fixing some parts so they last the race and making and adding 100 horses to your engines power are two different races.
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Re: Drivers to Strike?

Post by ToniWolf »

Zoue wrote:
hydra wrote:thanks for the link so they can see I'm not "trolling".

We all know what happened with Lotus and Raikkonen, and it wasn't Kimi's fault he was better than Lotus have budgeted for. I simply do not understand how you cannot pay a worker after he's done the work for you, that should be a criminal offence.

Who'd care if the 4 mentioned drivers did strike? People would hardly notice, wheras if Alonso, Hamilton and those drivers threatened a strike it would be taken more seriously, especially Alonso, he's always got some juicy info on his own team :)

I do find it surprising that Hamilton would be the only driver not to sign and that Rosberg, Alonso and other did sign it....unless Hamilton's totally a rapper now, and doesn't want to be seen as whining about a lack of money.

Hopefully nothing more will develop out this.

and here's a link for all you troll hunters out there

http://www.tportal.hr/sport/automoto/32 ... ajkom.html

In the report I saw Kimi also did not sign


He only has eyes for Hami didnt you know.!!?

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