So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

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Poll ended at Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:07 pm

Ricciardo and RBR get points back
20
20%
Ricciardo gets points back, RBR doesn't
18
18%
Ricciardo and RBR do not get points back
60
61%
 
Total votes: 98

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Amon
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So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Amon »

Tomorrow the FIA will decide on the appeal from RBR against the disqualification of Ricciardo from the Australian GP. If the appeal is successful the WCC standings will look much better for the driver in question as he finished second in his home race. Currently he is 10th in these standings.

1 Rosberg 61
2 Hamilton 50
3 Ricciardo 30 (+18)
4 Hulk 26 (-2)
5 Alonso 24 (-2)
6 Vettel 23
7 Button 20 (-3)
8 Magnussen 17 (-3)
9 Bottas 16 (-2)
10 Perez 15 (-1)
11 Massa 12
12 Raikkonen 5 (-2)
13 Vergne 2 (-2)
14 Kvyat 2 (-1)

If RBR also gets the points back, they would leapfrog McLaren and Force India

1 Mercedes 111
2 RBR 53 (+18)
3 Force India 41 (-3)
4 McLaren 37 (-6)
5 Ferrari 29 (-4)
6 Williams 28 (-2)
7 STR 4 (-3)

I'm pleasantly surprised about Ricciardo and I don't see he did anything wrong that race. I hope he gets his points back. I'm not really unhappy if RBR doesn't get the points back for WCC though.
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Flash2k11
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Flash2k11 »

I still cant see anything other than a failed appeal, even if they demonstrate beyond all doubt that their own readings were more accurate.
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hittheapex
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by hittheapex »

I want to wait for what comes out in the hearing, but if Red Bull are able to prove both that they did not gain a competitive advantage and transparently demonstrate why the FIA issued sensors were not working properly, I think both Riccardio and Red Bull should have their points reinstated. Rules are only as good as the mechanisms to enforce them. Speeding penalties are torn up in court if the measuring equipment is shown to be faulty.

On the other hand, if Red Bull are shown to have orchestrated this in an elaborate way to gain an unfair competitive advantage by spreading lies about the sensors, I believe they should be made to sit out a few races as BAR were in 2005. "Mere" disqualifications are meted out for mistakes at times. Actively breaking the rules should be met with sterner consequences.

What I think will happen is that Red Bull will show the sensors don't work with their car or the Renault engine for whatever reason, but the appeal will be thrown out on procedural grounds and how Red Bull went about things in Melbourne.
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by pokerman »

Red Bull ran his car outside the rules so i can't see how they can win the appeal, did not his fuel flow sensor go faulty in Bahrain but they followed procedure and Ricciardo was able to finish 4th in the race from 13th on the grid.

They took the decision to take the law into their own hands seemingly in the arrogant belief that they would not be penalised, and ever since then have launched a campaign against the sensors, making it known in the following races that they still have problems with the sensors. Yet in the races they ran 3rd and 4th in Malaysia behind the Mercedes and in Bahrain Ricciardo would surely have finished 3rd in the race behind the Mercedes cars if not for his grid penalty.

That Red Bull must be quite a car to compete at that level with a down on power engine and performance inhibiting faulty fuel sensors?
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Jeepkhana »

It could go either way. /thread

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by benmc »

I hope the case is thrown out. I understand Red Bull's argument and I think in this specific instance, perhaps it'd be right for them to be reinstated. However, I can't help thinking that if RBR win the case, it'll throw the sport into a state of anarchy.
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minchy
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by minchy »

Flash2k11 wrote:I still cant see anything other than a failed appeal, even if they demonstrate beyond all doubt that their own readings were more accurate.

I agree, even if they prove they were not over the limit at any point in the race, there is no denying that they did not adhere to the FIA's recommendations or warnings. If the FIA back down on this or the appeal is approved, then every other team has the right to appeal against the result as they followed the FIA's guidelines and lost the equivalent gain that RBR had. Now that would be a fiasco!
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Badgeronimous »

Every other team adhered to the directive. Red Bull are trying to be clever and exploit a loophole, but are fully aware of what the spirit of the rule means.

It is entirely possible both sensors are fairly accurate, as they are measuring peak flow at different points of the fuel line. Small discrepancies will happen.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by mikeyg123 »

I have a feeling that if Red Bull can prove they were within the flow limit Ricciardo will be reinstated.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Rock Brocaine »

RBR nor Ricciardo will get points back. It would be nice to see Ricciardo get those points back, but the fact is other teams complied with the FIA fuel adjustments, even if RBR was correct in their findings. It would create a fairy cakes storm on the grid. RBR should've went about their greivances the right way and got the other teams involved if they really felt that way.

slowestofall
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by slowestofall »

Amon: “I'm pleasantly surprised about Ricciardo and I don't see he did anything wrong that race. I hope he gets his points back.”

It really does not matter whether Ricciado personally did anything wrong or not. If the team did something against the rules which made his car faster, he reaped the benefit of it. It would be the same if the team let the car race underweight, or had a front wing that was too bendy, or used more than the 100kg total limit of fuel, or forgot to fit both types of tyre during the race

hittheapex: “I want to wait for what comes out in the hearing, but if Red Bull are able to prove both that they did not gain a competitive advantage and transparently demonstrate why the FIA issued sensors were not working properly, I think both Riccardio and Red Bull should have their points reinstated.”

From what has already been said by Red Bull and the FIA, the team did gain a competitive advantage over their rivals - they did not restrict the fuel flow rate to what the FIA thought was the correct rate according to the sensors, their rivals did restrict the fuel flow rate to what the FIA thought was the correct rate. The rivals might have thought that the FIA calculations were wrong, but they did what was asked. Red Bull cannot use their own measuring system, (whatever that may be), on their rivals' cars to prove that they had no advantage. It does not matter if Red Bull can show why the sensor might be inaccurate, (it could be because Red Bull package it differently from everyone else), there is a regulation which tells the teams what the procedure is if they believe a sensor is wrong. Red Bull chose to ignore the procedure.

hittheapex: “What I think will happen is that Red Bull will show the sensors don't work with their car or the Renault engine for whatever reason, but the appeal will be thrown out on procedural grounds and how Red Bull went about things in Melbourne. “

I think you might have things the wrong way round there. The FIA specify something, then the teams have to implement it in the car, and it is up to the team to make it work within specification. If the sensor gets too hot, or suffers too much vibration, or gets distrurbed by a magnetic field, then it is up to the team to solve the problem, not the FIA. Would Red Bull try to say that the standard ECU does not work in their car so they will use their own ECU, or that the standard width front tyre chafes against the bodywork so they will use their own tyres? I don't think so. They can talk as much as they like about standard parts not suiting their car, but it is their problem, and their responsibility to fix it.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Lt. Drebin »

RBR seems so confident that I think that they will get the points back.
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Juzzy82
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Juzzy82 »

I don't think they will win the appeal simply because of the consequences. The FIA appeals court won't allow it even if RBR have a sound argument.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by RickM »

They wont, and shouldn't get the points back. It'd have massive repercussions if it ended any other way.

Red Bulls monumentally fairy cakes logic will not win....then again...the FIA are involved to assume the exact opposite of what you'd logically expect to happen.
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by JerCotter7 »

He won't get them back but if he did the WCC would look a little less depressing. Both Merc drivers are above second in the WCC now :o

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by purchville »

slowestofall wrote:From what has already been said by Red Bull and the FIA, the team did gain a competitive advantage over their rivals - they did not restrict the fuel flow rate to what the FIA thought was the correct rate according to the sensors, their rivals did restrict the fuel flow rate to what the FIA thought was the correct rate. The rivals might have thought that the FIA calculations were wrong, but they did what was asked. Red Bull cannot use their own measuring system, (whatever that may be), on their rivals' cars to prove that they had no advantage. It does not matter if Red Bull can show why the sensor might be inaccurate, (it could be because Red Bull package it differently from everyone else), there is a regulation which tells the teams what the procedure is if they believe a sensor is wrong. Red Bull chose to ignore the procedure.


FWIW (again) this appeal has absolutely nothing to do with whether Red Bull gained a "competitive advantage" in Australia. The Technical Regulations do not mention competitive advantages. Also, how other teams behaved in contrast to Red Bull is completely irrelevant in a strictly legal sense.

What will be debated at the hearing is TR 5.1.4, which remains the sole reason for Ricciardo's disqualification.

Red Bull can use their own measuring system if they like, as long as they have the homologated FIA sensor fitted - which they obviously did, otherwise this discussion wouldn't be happening.
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by mac_d »

I don't see them getting points back.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by hittheapex »

slowestofall wrote:Amon: “I'm pleasantly surprised about Ricciardo and I don't see he did anything wrong that race. I hope he gets his points back.”

It really does not matter whether Ricciado personally did anything wrong or not. If the team did something against the rules which made his car faster, he reaped the benefit of it. It would be the same if the team let the car race underweight, or had a front wing that was too bendy, or used more than the 100kg total limit of fuel, or forgot to fit both types of tyre during the race

hittheapex: “I want to wait for what comes out in the hearing, but if Red Bull are able to prove both that they did not gain a competitive advantage and transparently demonstrate why the FIA issued sensors were not working properly, I think both Riccardio and Red Bull should have their points reinstated.”

From what has already been said by Red Bull and the FIA, the team did gain a competitive advantage over their rivals - they did not restrict the fuel flow rate to what the FIA thought was the correct rate according to the sensors, their rivals did restrict the fuel flow rate to what the FIA thought was the correct rate. The rivals might have thought that the FIA calculations were wrong, but they did what was asked. Red Bull cannot use their own measuring system, (whatever that may be), on their rivals' cars to prove that they had no advantage. It does not matter if Red Bull can show why the sensor might be inaccurate, (it could be because Red Bull package it differently from everyone else), there is a regulation which tells the teams what the procedure is if they believe a sensor is wrong. Red Bull chose to ignore the procedure.

hittheapex: “What I think will happen is that Red Bull will show the sensors don't work with their car or the Renault engine for whatever reason, but the appeal will be thrown out on procedural grounds and how Red Bull went about things in Melbourne. “

I think you might have things the wrong way round there. The FIA specify something, then the teams have to implement it in the car, and it is up to the team to make it work within specification. If the sensor gets too hot, or suffers too much vibration, or gets distrurbed by a magnetic field, then it is up to the team to solve the problem, not the FIA. Would Red Bull try to say that the standard ECU does not work in their car so they will use their own ECU, or that the standard width front tyre chafes against the bodywork so they will use their own tyres? I don't think so. They can talk as much as they like about standard parts not suiting their car, but it is their problem, and their responsibility to fix it.


The last word I'll say in this thread is that there are other facts that have persuaded me to form my view, all of which are detailed in the main thread. Most, although not all, of your rely is opinion and conjecture without unambiguous evidence or regulations to back it up but still presented as "cut and dried," the same problem with the main thread. I don't want to go off topic here any further but if you want to discuss it in the main thread, backing up with evidence and regulations, I'd be happy to do that after the appeal, when answers to a lot of the speculation and questions will hopefully be explained in more detail.
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by F1zen »

If it can be proven that the No. 3 car didn't exceed the fuel flow rate, I believe Ric should get those points back because he didn't get any advantage.

If it can be proven that Red Bull didn't run the FIA sensor as instructed (they didn't), they should not get the points back.

This, to me, is the most sensible outcome and would at least be a fair compromise.

There's obviously going to be alot of lawyer-speak and arguing about the rules.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by funkymonkey »

F1zen wrote:If it can be proven that the No. 3 car didn't exceed the fuel flow rate, I believe Ric should get those points back because he didn't get any advantage.

If it can be proven that Red Bull didn't run the FIA sensor as instructed (they didn't), they should not get the points back.

This, to me, is the most sensible outcome and would at least be a fair compromise.

There's obviously going to be alot of lawyer-speak and arguing about the rules.

It cannot be one way or other. Either all points including constructor get reinstated or nothing. That is how it is going to be.
If driver runs clean race but team decides not to show up for post race scrutineering, do you think driver will get the points for that race?
If penalty is awarded for anything that happened during the race, the points, position, DSQ, time penalty is applied to both constructor and driver.

The rare exceptions have been certain safety related penalties.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

They cannot prove they did not exceed the fuel flow rate, even if their readings can be proved to be 100% accurate. They can only prove they did not exceed the fuel flow rate at the injectors, as that is what they are measuring. The fuel flow sensors measure the fuel flow out of the fuel tank, and it is possible - and likely - to see variance in flow at these two points.

If Red Bull get off, it will open up a huge can of worms.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Swiss1 »

I feel sorry for Daniel, but this cannot be overturned. RBR were warned several times and chose to ignore those warnings. The limit is there for a reason and works along with the max limit of fuel per race.

Other teams also had issues but listened to the FIA and did what they were asked to.

Not only will this be unfair to the other teams who followed this directive, but if the appeal is successful, then the whole fuel limit/control comes into question and this would be VERY dangerous, causing all sorts of issues.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by matzy »

I expect they will lose the appeal. If they don't the policing of this rule regarding the fuel-flow rate will be an absolute mess ...

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by nixxxon »

I highly doubt they will get anything back.

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Red Bull Hearing - Today

Post by Clarky »

So today is the day that we will all find out the verdict of the Red Bull Fuel-gate issue. Hearing started at 10am GMT.

Now if they succeed in their appeal it may well open a whole can of worms here but one thing is for sure the FIA cant afford to lose.

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Re: Red Bull Hearing - Today

Post by Clarky »

Mercedes, Force India, McLaren, Lotus, and Williams all present.

Zoue
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Zoue »

funkymonkey wrote:
F1zen wrote:If it can be proven that the No. 3 car didn't exceed the fuel flow rate, I believe Ric should get those points back because he didn't get any advantage.

If it can be proven that Red Bull didn't run the FIA sensor as instructed (they didn't), they should not get the points back.

This, to me, is the most sensible outcome and would at least be a fair compromise.

There's obviously going to be alot of lawyer-speak and arguing about the rules.

It cannot be one way or other. Either all points including constructor get reinstated or nothing. That is how it is going to be.
If driver runs clean race but team decides not to show up for post race scrutineering, do you think driver will get the points for that race?
If penalty is awarded for anything that happened during the race, the points, position, DSQ, time penalty is applied to both constructor and driver.

The rare exceptions have been certain safety related penalties.

agree with this. I don't see a logical way they could convict RBR but allow DR to keep his points, since an argument would be made that if he had complied with the FIA readings (inc offset) then his performance would not have been so strong. Whatever the outcome of the hearing, DR gained an advantage in not using the official readings.

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mds
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by mds »

Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
F1zen wrote:If it can be proven that the No. 3 car didn't exceed the fuel flow rate, I believe Ric should get those points back because he didn't get any advantage.

If it can be proven that Red Bull didn't run the FIA sensor as instructed (they didn't), they should not get the points back.

This, to me, is the most sensible outcome and would at least be a fair compromise.

There's obviously going to be alot of lawyer-speak and arguing about the rules.

It cannot be one way or other. Either all points including constructor get reinstated or nothing. That is how it is going to be.
If driver runs clean race but team decides not to show up for post race scrutineering, do you think driver will get the points for that race?
If penalty is awarded for anything that happened during the race, the points, position, DSQ, time penalty is applied to both constructor and driver.

The rare exceptions have been certain safety related penalties.

agree with this. I don't see a logical way they could convict RBR but allow DR to keep his points, since an argument would be made that if he had complied with the FIA readings (inc offset) then his performance would not have been so strong. Whatever the outcome of the hearing, DR gained an advantage in not using the official readings.


It could still be split up. The court following in RBR not exceeding the fuel flow limit and as such giving Ricciardo the points back, but punishing RBR for disobediance.

Refer to 2007 for a split between ruling for drivers and team.
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Re: Red Bull Hearing - Today

Post by Clarky »

MODS can you link this up with the "So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?" thread please?

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Zoue »

mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
F1zen wrote:If it can be proven that the No. 3 car didn't exceed the fuel flow rate, I believe Ric should get those points back because he didn't get any advantage.

If it can be proven that Red Bull didn't run the FIA sensor as instructed (they didn't), they should not get the points back.

This, to me, is the most sensible outcome and would at least be a fair compromise.

There's obviously going to be alot of lawyer-speak and arguing about the rules.

It cannot be one way or other. Either all points including constructor get reinstated or nothing. That is how it is going to be.
If driver runs clean race but team decides not to show up for post race scrutineering, do you think driver will get the points for that race?
If penalty is awarded for anything that happened during the race, the points, position, DSQ, time penalty is applied to both constructor and driver.

The rare exceptions have been certain safety related penalties.

agree with this. I don't see a logical way they could convict RBR but allow DR to keep his points, since an argument would be made that if he had complied with the FIA readings (inc offset) then his performance would not have been so strong. Whatever the outcome of the hearing, DR gained an advantage in not using the official readings.


It could still be split up. The court following in RBR not exceeding the fuel flow limit and as such giving Ricciardo the points back, but punishing RBR for disobediance.

Refer to 2007 for a split between ruling for drivers and team.

I may be wrong on this but I don't believe the McLaren cars were at any time deemed illegal in 2007, which is presumably why the drivers were allowed to keep their points. The punishment was for off-track actions, not on-track advantages.

I see this incident differently. Ignoring the FIA readings conferred an advantage. If RBR had followed the process then DR would not have been as quick (I think CH even confirmed that), so to my mind if RBR was convicted and DR was allowed to keep his points this would open the door for other teams to file claims against the FIA for allowing DR to keep an advantage no-one else had. I don't really see any other fair way than an all or nothing approach, but I accept "fair" and "legal" are two separate things :)

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by mds »

Zoue wrote:I may be wrong on this but I don't believe the McLaren cars were at any time deemed illegal in 2007, which is presumably why the drivers were allowed to keep their points.


The reason why the drivers were allowed to keep their points was because they were offered immunity in exchange for cooperation.

The McLaren wasn't illegal per sé, but the team cheated and you don't cheat to not use what you learn. So Hamilton and Alonso would have gained from McLaren cheating.

I see this incident differently. Ignoring the FIA readings conferred an advantage. If RBR had followed the process then DR would not have been as quick (I think CH even confirmed that), so to my mind if RBR was convicted and DR was allowed to keep his points this would open the door for other teams to file claims against the FIA for allowing DR to keep an advantage no-one else had.


Well, we've been over this, but if I'm not mistaken RBR is arguing that following the FIA sensor & offset would have resulted in a competitive disadvantage towards the other teams. I can understand a team not wanting that. Ofcourse they would have to prove this, and even if they prove this it's probable that they won't get the points back. But I do see a possibility for a situation where DR gets his points and RBR don't.
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Re: Red Bull Hearing - Today

Post by Ennis »

Clarky wrote:Mercedes, Force India, McLaren, Lotus, and Williams all present.


Is there a relevance to this? Are they there to argue a position (that they were effectively hindered by 'obiding') or are they just there to see how it pans out?

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Clarky »

Cheers Mods

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Zoue »

mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:I may be wrong on this but I don't believe the McLaren cars were at any time deemed illegal in 2007, which is presumably why the drivers were allowed to keep their points.


The reason why the drivers were allowed to keep their points was because they were offered immunity in exchange for cooperation.

The McLaren wasn't illegal per sé, but the team cheated and you don't cheat to not use what you learn. So Hamilton and Alonso would have gained from McLaren cheating.

I see this incident differently. Ignoring the FIA readings conferred an advantage. If RBR had followed the process then DR would not have been as quick (I think CH even confirmed that), so to my mind if RBR was convicted and DR was allowed to keep his points this would open the door for other teams to file claims against the FIA for allowing DR to keep an advantage no-one else had.


Well, we've been over this, but if I'm not mistaken RBR is arguing that following the FIA sensor & offset would have resulted in a competitive disadvantage towards the other teams. I can understand a team not wanting that. Ofcourse they would have to prove this, and even if they prove this it's probable that they won't get the points back. But I do see a possibility for a situation where DR gets his points and RBR don't.

I agree that's what they are arguing, but I believe other teams also felt that they could gain performance by not using the FIA measurements but chose to apply by the letter of the law. Therefore they would have a case for feeling punished should DR's points be allowed to stand, since it could be seen to be rewarding foul play. There's also the additional point that if the claims are true that some 95% of all sensor issues are due to the Renault engined teams altering the positioning of the fuel flow sensor then they largely brought the problem down on themselves anyway. That's assuming those claims are true, of course

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Re: Red Bull Hearing - Today

Post by Clarky »

Ennis wrote:
Clarky wrote:Mercedes, Force India, McLaren, Lotus, and Williams all present.


Is there a relevance to this? Are they there to argue a position (that they were effectively hindered by 'obiding') or are they just there to see how it pans out?

Not sure if they are argue anything they maybe just there to hear everything that is being said.

I believe Red Bull were at the Perelli and Mercedes hearing last year.

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by AngusWolfe »

Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
F1zen wrote:If it can be proven that the No. 3 car didn't exceed the fuel flow rate, I believe Ric should get those points back because he didn't get any advantage.

If it can be proven that Red Bull didn't run the FIA sensor as instructed (they didn't), they should not get the points back.

This, to me, is the most sensible outcome and would at least be a fair compromise.

There's obviously going to be alot of lawyer-speak and arguing about the rules.

It cannot be one way or other. Either all points including constructor get reinstated or nothing. That is how it is going to be.
If driver runs clean race but team decides not to show up for post race scrutineering, do you think driver will get the points for that race?
If penalty is awarded for anything that happened during the race, the points, position, DSQ, time penalty is applied to both constructor and driver.

The rare exceptions have been certain safety related penalties.

agree with this. I don't see a logical way they could convict RBR but allow DR to keep his points, since an argument would be made that if he had complied with the FIA readings (inc offset) then his performance would not have been so strong. Whatever the outcome of the hearing, DR gained an advantage in not using the official readings.


It could still be split up. The court following in RBR not exceeding the fuel flow limit and as such giving Ricciardo the points back, but punishing RBR for disobediance.

Refer to 2007 for a split between ruling for drivers and team.

I may be wrong on this but I don't believe the McLaren cars were at any time deemed illegal in 2007, which is presumably why the drivers were allowed to keep their points. The punishment was for off-track actions, not on-track advantages.

I see this incident differently. Ignoring the FIA readings conferred an advantage. If RBR had followed the process then DR would not have been as quick (I think CH even confirmed that), so to my mind if RBR was convicted and DR was allowed to keep his points this would open the door for other teams to file claims against the FIA for allowing DR to keep an advantage no-one else had. I don't really see any other fair way than an all or nothing approach, but I accept "fair" and "legal" are two separate things :)


Iirc, TheMcLaren's drivers were offered immunity in exchange for cooperation. That, and at the time. It looked like one of them was going to win the championship. If, after all they'd been through that season they had been disqualified three races before the end, there would have been a HUGE backlash on the FIA, Most of Spain would have stopped watching and most of the football fans Hamilton picked up would have too. Keeping the drivers points was just logical.
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Zoue
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

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AngusWolfe wrote:Iirc, TheMcLaren's drivers were offered immunity in exchange for cooperation. That, and at the time. It looked like one of them was going to win the championship. If, after all they'd been through that season they had been disqualified three races before the end, there would have been a HUGE backlash on the FIA, Most of Spain would have stopped watching and most of the football fans Hamilton picked up would have too. Keeping the drivers points was just logical.

I agree there was probably a great deal of political pressure to keep the drivers in at the time. I still think that the circumstances are different now, though. But it's of course possible that politics will play a part again and DR's points will be reinstated, even though I personally think that would be grossly unfair

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

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Mercedes calling for increased Red Bull sanction in F1 appeal - Crash.net

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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

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I hope they don't go back on their ruling. Teams can't just do what they like when they like. They need to give Red Bull this reminder that the rulemakers call the shots, regardless of how unfair it is to Ricciardo himself.
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Zoue
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Re: So what will the verdict be on Ricciardo?

Post by Zoue »

Clarky wrote:Mercedes calling for increased Red Bull sanction in F1 appeal - Crash.net

Yes, and interesting that they say new evidence has come to light that RBR deliberately circumvented the rules:

This is a rehearing with new and different evidence than the stewards had [at the time in Australia],” Harris said during his opening remarks. “Now this court has had sight, it can see more clearly than the stewards that the breach was very deliberate; it was a flagrant breach.

“[Red Bull] knew [it was] not compliant, not doing what Mr Lom [FIA head of powertrain] said repeatedly, and knew full well it was being done to obtain and express sporting advantage – 0.4s per lap for Mr Ricciardo.”
Harris is the Mercedes' barrister.

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