If every driver had the same car how would the grid line up?

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thesailpattern
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If every driver had the same car how would the grid line up?

Post by thesailpattern »

Simply, if every driver from the current field had the same car (set-up to their liking!), how do you think the grid would line up?

(I know, basically who is the fastest driver :? )

Jeepkhana
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Jeepkhana »

Over the course of a season, you'd see the following at the top....in no particular order: Alonso, Vettel, Hulkenburg, Raikonnen, Bottas, Massa, Perez, Ricciardo, Hamilton, Rosberg, and Button duking it out for first. These are pretty much the best drivers, and only three of them haven't won a race to date. I hope you like the answer. ;)

paulsf1fix
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by paulsf1fix »

Interesting question, sadly it will never happen.

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Honda Quick »

I'll bite.

Since you said "line up" I suppose you mean qualifying results. And I'm going to presume each driver gets the car 100% to their liking and they nail the lap to the best of their ability.

+0.000 seconds: Hamilton, Hulkenberg, Vettel
+0.100 seconds: Alonso, Raikkonen, Ricciardo, Rosberg
+0.200 seconds: Bottas, Button, Grosjean, Kobayashi, Maldonaldo, Massa, Perez
+0.300 seconds: Sutil, Vergne

The others are too hard to classify or don't have enough samples to observe.

But what normally happens is that one driver gets things a bit more to their liking than the other and some drivers adapt to the issues better than the others. So this is just my blasphemous, utterly useless, impossible to prove or disprove opinion. :-P
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Pimpwerx
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Pimpwerx »

Lewis and Alonso out front. That's because I rate them highest of all the drivers on the grid. PEACE.

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infi24r
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by infi24r »

Hamilton
Hulkenberg
Ricciardo
Vettel
Alonso
Rosberg
Bottas
Massa
Raikkonen
Button
Magnussen
Vergne
Kvyat
Maldonado
Grosjean
Perez
Kobayashi
Bianchi
Sutil
Chilton
Ericson

Arai_or_Nothing
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Arai_or_Nothing »

Interesting that so many of you place Hulk over Perez when in fact Perez, though less consistent has shown he has bursts of speed that are superior to his teammate.

Here's my go at this fantasy… LOL

NOTE: the top 10 are extremely closely matched. Separated by a mere hundredth, maybe less in the same car.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Rosberg
4. Perez
5. Vettel
6. Raikkonen
7. Grosjean
8. Hulkenberg
9. Massa
10. Ricciardo
11. Bottas
12. Magnussen
13. Button
14. Kvyat
15. Maldonado
16. Vergne
17. Gutiérrez
18. Sutil
19. Kobayashi

The rest I don't rate.

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infi24r
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by infi24r »

Arai_or_Nothing wrote:Interesting that so many of you place Hulk over Perez when in fact Perez, though less consistent has shown he has bursts of speed that are superior to his teammate.


Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.

stranger
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by stranger »

infi24r wrote:
Arai_or_Nothing wrote:Interesting that so many of you place Hulk over Perez when in fact Perez, though less consistent has shown he has bursts of speed that are superior to his teammate.


Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


I think when some people choose these positions they very much take into consideration the most recent results as opposed to an overview of the individual drivers over time which is also quite relevant.

Whilst Perez has certainly been good and had podiums, I would still rate Hulk slightly higher looking at how they both compared to previous teammates and how they handled uncompetitive cars.

They are both quality drivers no doubt about it, closely matched.

JMILAT
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by JMILAT »

You cannot just take performance at ones best. In F1 you race for the World Championship over 19 races and it's about consistency as well as performance. A guy who is a little slower but always there is going to on a whole be faster than a quick but inconsistent driver over a season. The only time the higher peak driver could be more useful is in a midfield car, but even then I suspect that the driver always on it is going to be more likely to always pick up opportunities when they present themselves.

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UnlikeUday
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by UnlikeUday »

Arai_or_Nothing wrote:Interesting that so many of you place Hulk over Perez when in fact Perez, though less consistent has shown he has bursts of speed that are superior to his teammate.

Here's my go at this fantasy… LOL

NOTE: the top 10 are extremely closely matched. Separated by a mere hundredth, maybe less in the same car.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Rosberg
4. Perez
5. Vettel
6. Raikkonen
7. Grosjean
8. Hulkenberg
9. Massa
10. Ricciardo
11. Bottas
12. Magnussen
13. Button
14. Kvyat
15. Maldonado
16. Vergne
17. Gutiérrez
18. Sutil
19. Kobayashi

The rest I don't rate.


This I find it hard to digest - Grosjean above Hulk & Gutierrez above Sutil (I think this one is purely based on this year's Sauber. Sutil on his best day is probably much better than Gutierrez on his).
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by f1newbie »

I would say it would come down to what kind of car they all had. If it was a car with EBD then I would say vettel would be tight up there all the time. As it is now with less down force at the back I feel this is what is hurting vettel the most and he would be further back. Just my thoughts on this

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slide
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by slide »

Pimpwerx wrote:Lewis and Alonso out front. That's because I rate them highest of all the drivers on the grid. PEACE.


I agree , 2007 proved this and helped kimi get the title , lol,

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pauldstar
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by pauldstar »

thesailpattern wrote:Simply, if every driver from the current field had the same car (set-up to their liking!), how do you think the grid would line up?


Bearing that in mind, it's hard not to see Vettel, Hamilton and...MALDONADO at the top :D ; Alonso, Button and Rosberg come close behind.

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AngusWolfe
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by AngusWolfe »

For qualifying:
Hamilton/Vettel/Raikkonen(if the car is to his liking, see McLaren days)

Alonso/Massa/Button/Hulkenberg/Rosberg

Perez/Grosjean


In the race:
Alonso

Rosberg/Hamilton/Vettel/Raikkonen/Hulkenberg(maybe. We'll have to see him in a top team to be sure)

Massa/Button/Grosjean/Perez

From a sample of drivers in the order they came to my head. Drivers on the same line are roughly equal, or equal enough that minor differences between even the same car, or something like track preference would determine the outcome.
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Jeepkhana
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Jeepkhana »

infi24r wrote:Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


Why wouldn't Ricciardo be behind Vettel? Daniel has barely had a sniff of a podium. Get real...

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by matthewDCmoore »

1st - Vettel / Hamilton / Alonso
4th - Hulkenberg
5th- Raikkonen / Massa / Rosberg / Ricciardo / Button
10th - Bottas / Grosjean / Perez / Magnussen
14th - Kobayashi
15th - Bianchi
16th- Sutil
17th - Vergne / Kyvat
19th- Maldonado
20th- Guttierez
21st - Chilton
22nd - Ericson

Pedrosa_4_Ever
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Pedrosa_4_Ever »

Jeepkhana wrote:
infi24r wrote:Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


Why wouldn't Ricciardo be behind Vettel? Daniel has barely had a sniff of a podium. Get real...

We'll see about that on Monday ;) ...
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shay550
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by shay550 »

Alonso







Hamilton / Vettel

The rest...

Woody_247
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Woody_247 »

shay550 wrote:Alonso







Hamilton / Vettel

The rest...


I kind of dislike Alonso, well been admiring him more and more along the years TBH but I have to agree with the post quoted... Here's mine:

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton/ Vettel
4. Hulkenberg/ Raikkonen/ Rosberg
7. Magnussen/ Bianchi/ Ricciardo/
10. Massa/Button
12. Perez/ Kobayashi/ Kvyat
15. Bottas/ Grosejan
17. Maldonado/ Vergne
19. Sutil
20. Gutierrez
21. Chilton
22. Ericson
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Pedrosa_4_Ever
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Pedrosa_4_Ever »

Woody_247 wrote:
shay550 wrote:Alonso







Hamilton / Vettel

The rest...


I kind of dislike Alonso, well been admiring him more and more along the years TBH but I have to agree with the post quoted... Here's mine:

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton/ Vettel
4. Hulkenberg/ Raikkonen/ Rosberg
7. Magnussen/ Bianchi/ Ricciardo/
10. Massa/Button
12. Perez/ Kobayashi/ Kvyat
15. Bottas/ Grosejan
17. Maldonado/ Vergne
19. Sutil
20. Gutierrez
21. Chilton
22. Ericson

For me, it depends if you're talking about how qualifying would go (which is what the original poster asked) or how a race would go. I don't think Alonso is the best qualifier and a few people would be quicker than him over a single lap (Hamilton, Kimi, maybe Seb) but I do think he could very well be the best overall driver.
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F1yer
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by F1yer »

Vettel
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Alonso
Rosberg
Hulk
Kimi
The rest

Jeepkhana
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Jeepkhana »

Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Jeepkhana wrote:
infi24r wrote:Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


Why wouldn't Ricciardo be behind Vettel? Daniel has barely had a sniff of a podium. Get real...

We'll see about that on Monday ;) ...


I'm all for Danny getting his points back, as he had a great drive in Oz. But even if he gets his points back, he still has no wins to Vettel's 4 WDC's. So I still can't see how anyone can rate him anywhere but behind Vettel.

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Pedrosa_4_Ever »

Jeepkhana wrote:
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Jeepkhana wrote:
infi24r wrote:Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


Why wouldn't Ricciardo be behind Vettel? Daniel has barely had a sniff of a podium. Get real...

We'll see about that on Monday ;) ...


I'm all for Danny getting his points back, as he had a great drive in Oz. But even if he gets his points back, he still has no wins to Vettel's 4 WDC's. So I still can't see how anyone can rate him anywhere but behind Vettel.

I don't think the original point was that Ricciardo is quicker than Vettel, it was that someone ranked Perez ahead of Hulkenberg because Perez has shown flashes of excellent speed. By that logic, Ricciardo could be ranked of Vettel but the poster didn't do that.
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Mr.Wojo »

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Hulkenberg
4. Raikkonen
5. Rosberg
6. Ricciardo
7. Magnussen
8. Vettel
9. Bottas
10. Button
11. Grosjean
12. Massa
13. Perez
14. Kvyat
15. Sutil
16. Kobayashi
17. Maldonado
18. Vergne
19. Gutiérrez
20. Chilton
21. Ericson

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Alaaddin »

I need to know the weather conditions and track name to actually do my calculations to get a grid line up. Without that mentioned data, lists won't be more than a hallucination and/or collected reputation values. What i see from above lists is a podium capable car every racing season is essential to have a GREAT reputation. What i mean here is that beating Rosberg, Button, Hamilton on Saturdays isn't a certificate on being the fastest driver. Since this is a technical sport, finding the true speed for a driver is not child's play.
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bourbon19
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by bourbon19 »

Vettel
Raikkonen
Alonso
Hamilton
Button
Rosberg
Hulkenberg
Bottas
Perez
Magnussen
Grosjean
Massa
Bianchi
Ricciardo
Kvyat

*all things equal

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Covalent
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Covalent »

It wouldn't.

Zoue
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Zoue »

Jeepkhana wrote:
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Jeepkhana wrote:
infi24r wrote:Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


Why wouldn't Ricciardo be behind Vettel? Daniel has barely had a sniff of a podium. Get real...

We'll see about that on Monday ;) ...


I'm all for Danny getting his points back, as he had a great drive in Oz. But even if he gets his points back, he still has no wins to Vettel's 4 WDC's. So I still can't see how anyone can rate him anywhere but behind Vettel.

To be fair he hasn't had the opportunity to get any wins yet as he's not had a car capable of it. But he has shown himself to be very fast and has outqualified Vettel in the dry so far, even splitting the almighty Mercedes on one occasion. He's also given as good as he's got in the races, too. Webber stopped being able to challenge Seb a long time ago, despite having a reputation as a very quick driver himself. So I can understand someone thinking Ricciardo might have the edge given the season so far. Personally I think it's too early to say for sure, but I don't think it's as clear cut as "Seb has 4 titles so he must be better."

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thesailpattern
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by thesailpattern »

Alaaddin wrote:I need to know the weather conditions and track name to actually do my calculations to get a grid line up. Without that mentioned data, lists won't be more than a hallucination and/or collected reputation values.


I give you Suzuka, recent rain but track is rapidly drying, all drivers currently on intermediates but a few have radioed to say its almost ready for slicks. Q3, 6m37s remaining! (please show all calculations ;) )

I realise this is a sight deviation from the original question but I'm actually interested to see the final grid! Some great answers and arguments so far though.

The grid I quickly came up with in my head is...

1. Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Rosberg
4. Ricciardo
5. Massa
6. Alonso
7. Grosjean
8. Hulkenberg
9. Button
10.Perez
11.Bottas
12.Raikkonen
13.Sutil
14.Maldonado
15.Magnussen
16.Vergne
17.kyvat
18.Gutierrez
19.Bianchi
20.Kobayshi
21.Chilton
22.Erikson

This is based on my total lack of knowledge

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Arai_or_Nothing »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Arai_or_Nothing wrote:Interesting that so many of you place Hulk over Perez when in fact Perez, though less consistent has shown he has bursts of speed that are superior to his teammate.

Here's my go at this fantasy… LOL

NOTE: the top 10 are extremely closely matched. Separated by a mere hundredth, maybe less in the same car.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Rosberg
4. Perez
5. Vettel
6. Raikkonen
7. Grosjean
8. Hulkenberg
9. Massa
10. Ricciardo
11. Bottas
12. Magnussen
13. Button
14. Kvyat
15. Maldonado
16. Vergne
17. Gutiérrez
18. Sutil
19. Kobayashi

The rest I don't rate.


This I find it hard to digest - Grosjean above Hulk & Gutierrez above Sutil (I think this one is purely based on this year's Sauber. Sutil on his best day is probably much better than Gutierrez on his).

Doesn't matter what you find hard to digest. Last year Grosjean was indeed one of the top guys with some consistency and he closed out the year strongly. This year the car is not so good and he's besting Maldonado. Sutil?… Really? Give me a break already with this guy. All he's ever done is have moments where you think for a few minutes that he just might break through, and then it's right back to mediocrity as usual. Gutiérrez at least doesn't have almost a decade of F1 under his belt in good cars like Sutil so you must give a little leeway. Hulk is a fantastic Driver, but thus far Grosjean has indeed driven better. Perez has also at times shown glimpses of a driver that will stop at nothing to push to the very end and has taken home some trophies. Hulk on the other hand has driven races where he is initially very quick and on the pace with the front runners, only to fade as the race wears on. How may times have we seen him legitimately up in the top 5 of his own merit, only to see him finish towards the end of the points scale and sometimes even outside the points.

Some of you guys need to delve into these drivers and their performances more thoroughly before questioning the opinion of others who've perhaps been studying these guys and their abilities quite closely.

Merely favoring a driver(s) isn't enough to say they are for sure quicker than others, especially those drivers they have yet to out do.

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by brakesteer97 »

Arai_or_Nothing wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Arai_or_Nothing wrote:Interesting that so many of you place Hulk over Perez when in fact Perez, though less consistent has shown he has bursts of speed that are superior to his teammate.

Here's my go at this fantasy… LOL

NOTE: the top 10 are extremely closely matched. Separated by a mere hundredth, maybe less in the same car.

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Rosberg
4. Perez
5. Vettel
6. Raikkonen
7. Grosjean
8. Hulkenberg
9. Massa
10. Ricciardo
11. Bottas
12. Magnussen
13. Button
14. Kvyat
15. Maldonado
16. Vergne
17. Gutiérrez
18. Sutil
19. Kobayashi

The rest I don't rate.


This I find it hard to digest - Grosjean above Hulk & Gutierrez above Sutil (I think this one is purely based on this year's Sauber. Sutil on his best day is probably much better than Gutierrez on his).

Doesn't matter what you find hard to digest. Last year Grosjean was indeed one of the top guys with some consistency and he closed out the year strongly. This year the car is not so good and he's besting Maldonado. Sutil?… Really? Give me a break already with this guy. All he's ever done is have moments where you think for a few minutes that he just might break through, and then it's right back to mediocrity as usual. Gutiérrez at least doesn't have almost a decade of F1 under his belt in good cars like Sutil so you must give a little leeway. Hulk is a fantastic Driver, but thus far Grosjean has indeed driven better. Perez has also at times shown glimpses of a driver that will stop at nothing to push to the very end and has taken home some trophies. Hulk on the other hand has driven races where he is initially very quick and on the pace with the front runners, only to fade as the race wears on. How may times have we seen him legitimately up in the top 5 of his own merit, only to see him finish towards the end of the points scale and sometimes even outside the points.

Some of you guys need to delve into these drivers and their performances more thoroughly before questioning the opinion of others who've perhaps been studying these guys and their abilities quite closely.

Merely favoring a driver(s) isn't enough to say they are for sure quicker than others, especially those drivers they have yet to out do.


I'm not so sure I could agree with your Hulk point: only times I can think of him being in a legitimate top 5 position would be Brazil 2012, Italy and maybe USA 2013 when he has managed to keep pace with the frontrunners throughout. Perhaps you're thinking if drives like China 2013 when he's had the car higher up than it should be early in the race and simply slotted back behind clearly faster cars...

For the OP though:
1. Hamilton/ Vettel
3. Rosberg/ Hulkenberg/ Ricciardo
6. Alonso/ Grosjean

The rest are too difficult
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mmi16
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by mmi16 »

F1 is much too close to being a Spec series as it stands today.
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bourbon19
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by bourbon19 »

Zoue wrote:
Jeepkhana wrote:
Pedrosa_4_Ever wrote:
Jeepkhana wrote:
infi24r wrote:Same for you placing Ricciardo behind Vettel.


Why wouldn't Ricciardo be behind Vettel? Daniel has barely had a sniff of a podium. Get real...

We'll see about that on Monday ;) ...


I'm all for Danny getting his points back, as he had a great drive in Oz. But even if he gets his points back, he still has no wins to Vettel's 4 WDC's. So I still can't see how anyone can rate him anywhere but behind Vettel.

To be fair he hasn't had the opportunity to get any wins yet as he's not had a car capable of it. But he has shown himself to be very fast and has outqualified Vettel in the dry so far, even splitting the almighty Mercedes on one occasion. He's also given as good as he's got in the races, too. Webber stopped being able to challenge Seb a long time ago, despite having a reputation as a very quick driver himself. So I can understand someone thinking Ricciardo might have the edge given the season so far. Personally I think it's too early to say for sure, but I don't think it's as clear cut as "Seb has 4 titles so he must be better."


And yet, it is just as clear as that.

Just as clear as Alonso has 2 titles so he must be better than Ricciardo, etc., etc.. It isn't just a matter of titles of course, but rather, what they represent which is experience and skill.

iknownothing
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by iknownothing »

Depends on the car.

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by oz_karter »

bourbon19 wrote:And yet, it is just as clear as that.

Just as clear as Alonso has 2 titles so he must be better than Ricciardo, etc., etc.. It isn't just a matter of titles of course, but rather, what they represent which is experience and skill.


The question was how would the grid line up, not how will the championship end.

So far Ricciardo has outqualified Vettel 2 out of 3 times and outraced him at the most recent round where it was a straight fight.

Vettel was the benchmark from 2010-2013, but it's a new year and we are seeing some new things happen. I think Daniel fully deserves to be rated highly given he is still a rookie at Red Bull.

I think it says a lot for Daniel that after only 3 races at Red Bull we are having this argument!

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LKS1
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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by LKS1 »

thesailpattern wrote:Simply, if every driver from the current field had the same car (set-up to their liking!), how do you think the grid would line up?

(I know, basically who is the fastest driver :? )

Assuming equal cars and the perfect set-up for the driver, its v difficult to say the quali order.

Most of the drivers will qualify well under these conditions, so we're only looking for those that are v good over one lap (not necessarily the entire race).

Hmmm. Those I've noticed that are great qualifiers are Lewis/Seb/Rosberg - but that's probably only 'cos they've had great quali cars at times and were happy with car/set-up/tyres/luck etc.

There have been so many variables, I find it impossible to come up with an 'all things being equal' list - but (going back!) Trulli would have been my favourite for best qualifier.

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Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Zoue »

bourbon19 wrote:And yet, it is just as clear as that.

Just as clear as Alonso has 2 titles so he must be better than Ricciardo, etc., etc.. It isn't just a matter of titles of course, but rather, what they represent which is experience and skill.

I'm afraid I strongly disagree with that. In the same way that someone with a degree is not automatically more intelligent than someone without, a title does not mean that a driver is better than anyone else. It just means that they were in a position to demonstrate their skill that particular year, including having the equipment to give them a chance to compete. Multiple titles means they are clearly a very good driver, but it doesn't mean that e.g. Vettel is twice as good as Alonso (or four times the driver Lewis is).

In any event, as pointed out, the thread is about qualifying, not how they would finish the season. Experience is less relevant than one lap speed.

I find this a lot harder to answer than I initially thought. A lot of drivers are fairly well matched this year. The only ones I should say for sure would be at the top are the usual suspects, with perhaps a couple of surprises thrown in:

Lewis
Kimi
Nico
Vettel
Ricciardo
Alonso
Hulk
Grosjean
Massa
Magnussen
Button
Perez

My crystal ball gets very hazy after that.

There will be some controversy in those choices, but remember the OP said that the cars would all be setup exactly how the drivers would like it. I can't make up my mind where to put Seb but I think the top four are all almost interchangeable

mikeyg123
Posts: 18021
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by mikeyg123 »

So in terms of quali pace only

Hamilton
Vettel
Rosberg
Ricciardo
Alonso
Hulk
Kimi
Gorsjean
Massa
Magnussen
Bottas
Button
Kyvat
Maldanado
Perez
Sutil
Kobayashi
Bianchi
Vergne
Guitierez
Chilton
Ericcson

Irbis
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:28 pm

Re: If every driver had the same car how would the grid line

Post by Irbis »

I have a feeling that without starting in cheated McLaren 2007, flattering McLaren 2010 and 2011, and frankly overpowered Merc 2014 a certain driver would be seen at best Pérez level.

Who would be first? IMHO, drivers who shown they can also win in worse car, not needing 1+ second advantage - Vettel, Alonso, Raikkonen, Button.

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