Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

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Laura23
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

mmi16 wrote:
hd23 wrote:I don't think Dallara can provide them with a chassis to challenge the established teams straight away. They did a terrible job with HRT, that car was a complete dog.


HRT didn't provide the $$$$$ to develop the cars. Without development in F1, no matter how bad you are at the start - you will get worse as each race goes by.

There's nothing to say Haas might not have the best budget either though really. If he enters next season with a mediocre Dallara chassis and a weak Ferrari engine it won't exactly endear sponsors to the team.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mikeyg123 »

Laura23 wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
hd23 wrote:I don't think Dallara can provide them with a chassis to challenge the established teams straight away. They did a terrible job with HRT, that car was a complete dog.


HRT didn't provide the $$$$$ to develop the cars. Without development in F1, no matter how bad you are at the start - you will get worse as each race goes by.

There's nothing to say Haas might not have the best budget either though really. If he enters next season with a mediocre Dallara chassis and a weak Ferrari engine it won't exactly endear sponsors to the team.


Better to be on the grid than not though even if you are at the back.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
hd23 wrote:I don't think Dallara can provide them with a chassis to challenge the established teams straight away. They did a terrible job with HRT, that car was a complete dog.


HRT didn't provide the $$$$$ to develop the cars. Without development in F1, no matter how bad you are at the start - you will get worse as each race goes by.

There's nothing to say Haas might not have the best budget either though really. If he enters next season with a mediocre Dallara chassis and a weak Ferrari engine it won't exactly endear sponsors to the team.


Better to be on the grid than not though even if you are at the back.

Im not so sure about that. If they do embarrass themselves, I'm not saying they will, then they'd put a lot of potential sponsors off. I don't think starting a year early and being hopeless is any better than starting a year late and being at least decent.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mikeyg123 »

Laura23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
hd23 wrote:I don't think Dallara can provide them with a chassis to challenge the established teams straight away. They did a terrible job with HRT, that car was a complete dog.


HRT didn't provide the $$$$$ to develop the cars. Without development in F1, no matter how bad you are at the start - you will get worse as each race goes by.

There's nothing to say Haas might not have the best budget either though really. If he enters next season with a mediocre Dallara chassis and a weak Ferrari engine it won't exactly endear sponsors to the team.


Better to be on the grid than not though even if you are at the back.

Im not so sure about that. If they do embarrass themselves, I'm not saying they will, then they'd put a lot of potential sponsors off. I don't think starting a year early and being hopeless is any better than starting a year late and being at least decent.


Trouble is either way they will probably be somewhere near the back during there first year. Better to get the exposure and experience in my opinion. The problem with aiming for 2016 is that its hard to get a buzz going for something that's going to happen in 22 months!

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Razoola »

Could this mean Montoya back in F1? I suspect this means Heikki K may get a drive again next year also.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by HawaiiF1Fan »

Razoola wrote:Could this mean Montoya back in F1? I suspect this means Heikki K may get a drive again next year also.



JPM is currently racing in IndyCar with Ganassi(?). Those IndyCar guys have pretty sweet deals. Much more staying power than in F1. I doubt he's going to leave.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by AngusWolfe »

Plus if guys are having to dehydrate themselves, I don't think JPM is going to be much use.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mikeyg123 »

It will be Rossi plus an experienced hand or a pay driver depending on finances.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by 44sackett »

Evidently Haas is NOT locked in to Ferrari PU's according to this(foumd at Jayski.com)

UPDATE: NASCAR team owner Gene Haas says he plans to field an American-based Formula One racing series team within the next two years. The team will be called Haas Formula, he said Monday at a news conference. Haas says he should know within the next four weeks if the team will begin racing in 2015 or wait until 2016. He says part of that depends on how long it takes for Haas Formula to find an engine supplier. Haas Formula would become the first American-based Formula One team in more than three decades to join the racing series. Although there's plenty of skepticism over his decision, Haas says, "I wouldn't be doing it if I thought I was going to fail. But that's the challenge -- proving other people wrong."(Associated Press/ESPN)(4-14-2014)

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by HawaiiF1Fan »

^^^Hopefully with McLaren moving to Honda, Haas can get a deal with Mercedes. I think the other Mercedes teams would welcome that too. I'd rather a new team get that engine than say Sauber.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mcdo »

Haven't really followed this at all. After reading a little bit my initial reaction is "Aw man not Dallara"
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by 44sackett »

Another update found at jayski.com

UPDATE2: The motivation for Gene Haas is two-fold. Primarily, Haas, who owns one the largest CNC tool manufacturing operations, wants to market his products globally and F1 will allow him to "enhance his branding" on a greater scale than NASCAR, which is limited to North America. "The ultimate goal is to take the image of Haas Automation and turn it into a brand that is desired and high-quality and known throughout the world," Haas said. "The ultimate goal would be to double our sales for Haas Automation. I think it's going to be positive. As an indicator, I'm using the relationship with NASCAR that we have here including the brands we have in the United States. We have a very good market share, good market penetration and it's as simple as to replicate that overseas."
Secondly, despite short-lived effort of the USF1 team, Haas is convinced that an American-based team can compete against the established F1 juggernauts of Europe. Haas feels that with the current F1 rules packages, the timing is right for an aspiring team to enter the series and dispel the notion that "Americans can't do it".
"I'm here to prove that we can do it, and we can do it with a budget and we can be efficient at it and we can win at it," Haas said. "That's what I'm going to try. I'm not saying that I'm better than anybody else. I just have a different way of doing it, and people that I work with think differently. That, I guess, is going to be the secret to our success in this business. We're going to spend our money wisely. We're going to do it with an American flair for design and efficiencies, and that's how we're going to control our costs. I don't -- we're not going to be a European-led team. We're going to be an American-led team and we'll do it the way we think is the most efficient. Yes, this is an ambitious undertaking for Haas. He wasn't joking when asked about his budget that "it's going to be billions and billions" to be operational. And he has just over a month to inform the FIA as to whether Haas Formula intends to race in 2015 or 2016. Certainly, Haas' timetable will depend on the support of his technical partners. Similar to his introduction to NASCAR where he relied on Hendrick Motorsports to get up to speed, Haas will rely on the relationship of his potential F1 partners as well.
Formula Haas' home base will be in Kannapolis, N.C. adjacent to the existing Stewart-Haas Racing shop. The company is currently adding 150,000 sq. ft. With Haas Automation satellites in Brussels and Shanghai, there is already a global base, but Haas expects to have a secondary shop in either Germany or Italy likely dependent on whether he partners with Mercedes or Ferrari. Haas will likely use Dallara for his chassis, but his eventual goal is to develop the components to compete for the Constructors championship.
As for prospective drivers, in the beginning Haas would like to use racers that are already familiar with the current engine rules package then eventually phase in American talent. Formula Haas team principal Guenther Steiner would prefer not entertainment drivers searching for buy rides but rely on racers with raw talent. For now, Haas intends on maintaining a clean car free of sponsorship outside of the Haas brand. He believes that any additional support would "dilute" his marketing strategy. However, a five-year plan is in place to "make this a profitable enterprise" and that will involve additional sponsors in order "to make money and compete".(Motorsport)(4-15-2014)


Velly velly interesting...........................NO sponsors(initially)!!!!!................NO Pay Drivers!!!!!!!!!!!!! and Mercedes PU was mentioned, this could get very exciting!!!!

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

Yeah Haas is onto a loser if he thinks he can make money within five years. The only team that managed to make any money within five years of entering the sport in recent times was Red Bull and they inherited a fairly good Jaguar chassis in their first season and poached Newey in their second. Haas won't have that.

I'd say alarm bells are already ringing with this one. Especially with that Dallara chassis plan. A hopeless first season won't do them any good at all, especially if they want to try and bring sponsors on board and maintain a pay driver free environment. I don't think Haas understands F1 is a completely different animal to IndyCar racing.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by silkjet »

It takes a bold man to succeed. He has set his sights high indeed. For me, his CNC machine tool business, and its #1 worldwide position bodes well for his success.

When guys like Ferrari are hobbled the time is indeed good to enter- with a Mercedes PU. 2015 better than 2016 if he can secure Mercedes. Surely Mercedes would be less worried about Haas than supplying Adrian Newey and Red Bull.

Mercedes power and an American team would interest the marketing types at Mercedes HQ.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by 44sackett »

Laura23 wrote:Yeah Haas is onto a loser if he thinks he can make money within five years. The only team that managed to make any money within five years of entering the sport in recent times was Red Bull and they inherited a fairly good Jaguar chassis in their first season and poached Newey in their second. Haas won't have that.

I'd say alarm bells are already ringing with this one. Especially with that Dallara chassis plan. A hopeless first season won't do them any good at all, especially if they want to try and bring sponsors on board and maintain a pay driver free environment. I don't think Haas understands F1 is a completely different animal to IndyCar racing.



"The Dallara Plan" has been mentioned derisively several times in this thread and also in an earlier thread with regards to HRT i believe. My question is this, was the HRT chassis their design or Dallara's???

My understanding with Haas is that it was gonna be their design and have Dallara manufacture it to save time and startup costs and until Haas could get manufacturing capability at his shop.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by pc27b »

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/102755-f1- ... transcript

q n a with haas and steiner.
haas doesn't own teams in indy car, he owns teams in nascar
haas cnc will be the sponsor
indy car and nhra in the states have some of the most accessible drivers/team members of any major racing series. i like that he says he needs to talk to someone in f1 about the lack of accessibility to those people in f1. though i doubt it does much good

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by drhonk »

44sackett wrote:
Laura23 wrote:Yeah Haas is onto a loser if he thinks he can make money within five years. The only team that managed to make any money within five years of entering the sport in recent times was Red Bull and they inherited a fairly good Jaguar chassis in their first season and poached Newey in their second. Haas won't have that.

I'd say alarm bells are already ringing with this one. Especially with that Dallara chassis plan. A hopeless first season won't do them any good at all, especially if they want to try and bring sponsors on board and maintain a pay driver free environment. I don't think Haas understands F1 is a completely different animal to IndyCar racing.



"The Dallara Plan" has been mentioned derisively several times in this thread and also in an earlier thread with regards to HRT i believe. My question is this, was the HRT chassis their design or Dallara's???

My understanding with Haas is that it was gonna be their design and have Dallara manufacture it to save time and startup costs and until Haas could get manufacturing capability at his shop.



Correct, Haas is planning Dallara to build their chassis but with their engineer working with them. He has all the equipment he needs to build a car but no experience building an F1 car and that's where Dallara comes in .. at least until they feel comfortable to do everything themselves. Smart move if you ask me.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by RaggedMan »

pc27b wrote:http://www.racer.com/f1/item/102755-f1-haas-formula-teleconference-transcript

q n a with haas and steiner.
haas doesn't own teams in indy car, he owns teams in nascar
haas cnc will be the sponsor
indy car and nhra in the states have some of the most accessible drivers/team members of any major racing series. i like that he says he needs to talk to someone in f1 about the lack of accessibility to those people in f1. though i doubt it does much good

So according to this they've already heard from Stefano... Interesting.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by RickM »

I know that the last round of new teams didn't exactly go great, but that was down to the cockup that was the F1 budget.

However someone entering with the knowledge that they cant rely on funding direct from F1 will no doubt have other reasons for entering. For example to use it as a sponsorship mechanism for other parts of his businesses.

All he needs to be able to do is get the right people, that is after all what Red Bull did. If he can get a healthy group of people together he could actually pull this off.

IMO he'd need something along the lines of this:

- A couple of technical directors from top-6 teams
- Either Dominicali, Whitmarsh or Brawn to head the operation
- A Merc engine deal

The biggest mistake the other three made was taking on way too many unknown people heading up key areas. At the time funding wasn't so much of a problem for them so it was more a case of poor planning.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

RickM wrote:I know that the last round of new teams didn't exactly go great, but that was down to the cockup that was the F1 budget.

However someone entering with the knowledge that they cant rely on funding direct from F1 will no doubt have other reasons for entering. For example to use it as a sponsorship mechanism for other parts of his businesses.

All he needs to be able to do is get the right people, that is after all what Red Bull did. If he can get a healthy group of people together he could actually pull this off.

IMO he'd need something along the lines of this:

- A couple of technical directors from top-6 teams
- Either Dominicali, Whitmarsh or Brawn to head the operation
- A Merc engine deal

The biggest mistake the other three made was taking on way too many unknown people heading up key areas. At the time funding wasn't so much of a problem for them so it was more a case of poor planning.

If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mikeyg123 »

Laura23 wrote:
RickM wrote:I know that the last round of new teams didn't exactly go great, but that was down to the cockup that was the F1 budget.

However someone entering with the knowledge that they cant rely on funding direct from F1 will no doubt have other reasons for entering. For example to use it as a sponsorship mechanism for other parts of his businesses.

All he needs to be able to do is get the right people, that is after all what Red Bull did. If he can get a healthy group of people together he could actually pull this off.

IMO he'd need something along the lines of this:

- A couple of technical directors from top-6 teams
- Either Dominicali, Whitmarsh or Brawn to head the operation
- A Merc engine deal

The biggest mistake the other three made was taking on way too many unknown people heading up key areas. At the time funding wasn't so much of a problem for them so it was more a case of poor planning.

If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.


That was Red Bull's strategy when they started, and that was at a time when F1 was even more expensive than it is now.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by pc27b »

Laura23 wrote:
RickM wrote:I know that the last round of new teams didn't exactly go great, but that was down to the cockup that was the F1 budget.

However someone entering with the knowledge that they cant rely on funding direct from F1 will no doubt have other reasons for entering. For example to use it as a sponsorship mechanism for other parts of his businesses.

All he needs to be able to do is get the right people, that is after all what Red Bull did. If he can get a healthy group of people together he could actually pull this off.

IMO he'd need something along the lines of this:

- A couple of technical directors from top-6 teams
- Either Dominicali, Whitmarsh or Brawn to head the operation
- A Merc engine deal

The biggest mistake the other three made was taking on way too many unknown people heading up key areas. At the time funding wasn't so much of a problem for them so it was more a case of poor planning.

If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.



carl haas (no relation to gene haas) ran an indy car team. not gene.

"All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management.""

no it doesn't.
from the q n a it does seem he is very much about growing haas cnc through f1 sponsorship of his team. he has run a successful nascar team, and business. so i would imagine he has a pretty good plan, don't know how it will work out, i don't expect a top team for him, ever, but hope it works out well enough. besides, it's his money, he can do with it what he wants.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
RickM wrote:I know that the last round of new teams didn't exactly go great, but that was down to the cockup that was the F1 budget.

However someone entering with the knowledge that they cant rely on funding direct from F1 will no doubt have other reasons for entering. For example to use it as a sponsorship mechanism for other parts of his businesses.

All he needs to be able to do is get the right people, that is after all what Red Bull did. If he can get a healthy group of people together he could actually pull this off.

IMO he'd need something along the lines of this:

- A couple of technical directors from top-6 teams
- Either Dominicali, Whitmarsh or Brawn to head the operation
- A Merc engine deal

The biggest mistake the other three made was taking on way too many unknown people heading up key areas. At the time funding wasn't so much of a problem for them so it was more a case of poor planning.

If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.


That was Red Bull's strategy when they started, and that was at a time when F1 was even more expensive than it is now.

Red Bull didn't start from nothing though. They bought out Jaguar who had already made the 2005 car, which was pretty decent as well. They had a good base to start with and build upon. They also got Newey just 18 months later. Haas won't have any of that.

I still stick by my guns that he's trying to run it like you'd run an IndyCar op. Even if I did get my Haas' mixed up.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mikeyg123 »

Laura23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
RickM wrote:I know that the last round of new teams didn't exactly go great, but that was down to the cockup that was the F1 budget.

However someone entering with the knowledge that they cant rely on funding direct from F1 will no doubt have other reasons for entering. For example to use it as a sponsorship mechanism for other parts of his businesses.

All he needs to be able to do is get the right people, that is after all what Red Bull did. If he can get a healthy group of people together he could actually pull this off.

IMO he'd need something along the lines of this:

- A couple of technical directors from top-6 teams
- Either Dominicali, Whitmarsh or Brawn to head the operation
- A Merc engine deal

The biggest mistake the other three made was taking on way too many unknown people heading up key areas. At the time funding wasn't so much of a problem for them so it was more a case of poor planning.

If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.


That was Red Bull's strategy when they started, and that was at a time when F1 was even more expensive than it is now.

Red Bull didn't start from nothing though. They bought out Jaguar who had already made the 2005 car, which was pretty decent as well. They had a good base to start with and build upon. They also got Newey just 18 months later. Haas won't have any of that.

I still stick by my guns that he's trying to run it like you'd run an IndyCar op. Even if I did get my Haas' mixed up.



I doubt Haas will spend more on his startup than Red Bull did buying Jaguar and funding the team for the first few seasons and there is no reason why Haas can't sign a top designer. You keep saying things are not possible like getting on the grid in 10 months or funding a team with just 1 sponsor but these things have been done and recently. You may not think it is a sensible approach but it is certainly possible.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by RaggedMan »

Laura23 wrote:If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.

The only place I've seen anything about making profits in the first 5 years has been a couple of posts from you, so if there's a link somewhere where that statement comes straight from Haas' mounth I'd be interested in seeing it.

That aside, he seems to be going into this with his eyes wide open in terms of what it will cost and I'm sure he's built a warchest to go F1 racing with over the last few years that he's been thinking about it. If you read the whole Q&A linked above you'll see that and that he already has Steiner on board and is looking to bring in others with relevent experience in the areas where he doesn't already have over lap. I believe that as he has talked with Steiner and any others in the F1 community those from within have told him where they believe things aren't done in the most logical or effecient way and they would like a clean slate to work from in that regard.

I would think that the approach he hints at and sort of outlines in the Q&A is to take from how current F1 teams work what is essential and works, and seaparate it from what isn't essential or currently done poorly to try to reduce wasted resources as a way of managing the budget.

He's planning on using customer parts as much as possible at first which is a good way to go to get off the ground. There is plenty of this already going on in the midfield with lower order teams buying their gearboxes and such from McLaren or Red Bull and partnering with them on other technologies as well.

All in all it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

RaggedMan wrote:
Laura23 wrote:If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.

The only place I've seen anything about making profits in the first 5 years has been a couple of posts from you, so if there's a link somewhere where that statement comes straight from Haas' mounth I'd be interested in seeing it.

That aside, he seems to be going into this with his eyes wide open in terms of what it will cost and I'm sure he's built a warchest to go F1 racing with over the last few years that he's been thinking about it. If you read the whole Q&A linked above you'll see that and that he already has Steiner on board and is looking to bring in others with relevent experience in the areas where he doesn't already have over lap. I believe that as he has talked with Steiner and any others in the F1 community those from within have told him where they believe things aren't done in the most logical or effecient way and they would like a clean slate to work from in that regard.

I would think that the approach he hints at and sort of outlines in the Q&A is to take from how current F1 teams work what is essential and works, and seaparate it from what isn't essential or currently done poorly to try to reduce wasted resources as a way of managing the budget.

He's planning on using customer parts as much as possible at first which is a good way to go to get off the ground. There is plenty of this already going on in the midfield with lower order teams buying their gearboxes and such from McLaren or Red Bull and partnering with them on other technologies as well.

All in all it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

He's living in dream land if he thinks he'll make money within five years without a budget cap. If he'd said ten I'd have seen his point. Red Bull are a pointless comparison as well because they had a completely different base to start from and I don't think the F1 operation actually makes DM that much cash either.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/04/14/more ... -f1-plans/
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by RaggedMan »

Laura23 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Laura23 wrote:If I'm honest I think Haas' biggest mistake will be to tackle this like he's still running an IndyCar/Champ Car team. I know he doesn't run single seaters in America at the moment but the likelihood is he will think he can run his F1 team very similarly to his old Champ Car team. But it won't work, F1 is a completely different animal.

All this crap about making profits within five years and being his own sponsor to begin with sounds like classic Champ Car/IndyCar management. Doing that was and still is possible over there, it isn't so in F1. He needs to get sponsors on board early, get interest and get the best people and deals he can. You are right about the Merc engine but Merc aren't interested apparently so he's not going to get them. I think he'd be better off going for a Renault deal myself, given their troubles this year (and they are getting better already) the engines could be quite cheap for 2015.

The only place I've seen anything about making profits in the first 5 years has been a couple of posts from you, so if there's a link somewhere where that statement comes straight from Haas' mounth I'd be interested in seeing it.

That aside, he seems to be going into this with his eyes wide open in terms of what it will cost and I'm sure he's built a warchest to go F1 racing with over the last few years that he's been thinking about it. If you read the whole Q&A linked above you'll see that and that he already has Steiner on board and is looking to bring in others with relevent experience in the areas where he doesn't already have over lap. I believe that as he has talked with Steiner and any others in the F1 community those from within have told him where they believe things aren't done in the most logical or effecient way and they would like a clean slate to work from in that regard.

I would think that the approach he hints at and sort of outlines in the Q&A is to take from how current F1 teams work what is essential and works, and seaparate it from what isn't essential or currently done poorly to try to reduce wasted resources as a way of managing the budget.

He's planning on using customer parts as much as possible at first which is a good way to go to get off the ground. There is plenty of this already going on in the midfield with lower order teams buying their gearboxes and such from McLaren or Red Bull and partnering with them on other technologies as well.

All in all it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

He's living in dream land if he thinks he'll make money within five years without a budget cap. If he'd said ten I'd have seen his point. Red Bull are a pointless comparison as well because they had a completely different base to start from and I don't think the F1 operation actually makes DM that much cash either.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/04/14/more ... -f1-plans/

Thanks for the link but I'll have to read it later because work seems to block that blog site. :?

I never said anything about Red Bull that was RickM, and I agree that there's no relevant comparison between that and what Haas is attempting. But the fact that he isn't planning on doing things just like existing teams do that doesn't mean that he's going to try to run it like his NASCAR team, nor does it mean that something different will never work just because it's different. Teams today don't operate like they did 10 years ago, and 10 years ago they didn't operate the way they did 10 years before that, and for everything that is commonly done differently today there was somebody who did it that way first and when it worked it was copied. Granted some of those changes were due to rule changes but not all, maybe not even most.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Blake »

Laura23 wrote:
I still stick by my guns that he's trying to run it like you'd run an IndyCar op. Even if I did get my Haas' mixed up.



Roger Penske... Chip Ganassi... Michael Andretti....

Show me a better run racing organization anywhere (F1 included) than Roger Penske over the last 30 years


Chip has done pretty well also. Both Penske & Ganassi have also had success in other racing series... from ALMS to NASCAR.

So, pray tell, would be wrong with Haas running his team like an IndyCar op? Is this some kind of typical F1 elitism philosophy or concern that Haas may not be able to play dirty enough to survive F1 politics (if so you may well be right)?
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

Blake wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
I still stick by my guns that he's trying to run it like you'd run an IndyCar op. Even if I did get my Haas' mixed up.



Roger Penske... Chip Ganassi... Michael Andretti....

Show me a better run racing organization anywhere (F1 included) than Roger Penske over the last 30 years


Chip has done pretty well also. Both Penske & Ganassi have also had success in other racing series... from ALMS to NASCAR.

So, pray tell, would be wrong with Haas running his team like an IndyCar op? Is this some kind of typical F1 elitism philosophy or concern that Haas may not be able to play dirty enough to survive F1 politics (if so you may well be right)?

Nope. You can't run an F1 team the way you'd run an IndyCar team and the same vice versa. The series are completely different animals. Nothing elitist going on at all, I thought you knew me better than that Blake.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Blake »

No, I don't Laura....

How are the runnings of a racing team different? What does management of an F1 team do that would be so different in theory to an IRL team? Management has to be aware of the rules and regulations for the series they choose to compete in, they have to hire people to fit the needs for that series,tehy need to make financial arrangements in order to properly fund the effort, has to build a team that gives them the best chance of success in the series they have chosen, they need to continue to develop, study, learn and apply.

I think that the fundamentals of creating a racing program are all the same... Haas is smart enough to know that he must apply sound management to the series and team as it best suits an F1 team. Whether he can do so or not, remains to be seen.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by moby »

I thought there was rule that entrants had to be "constructors". How does it work if Haas is planning to use Dallara tubs and several previous teams have already used that "constructor"? As in Red bull and Torro Rosso.

Not only that, but if another new team wanted tubs built, could they also use Dallara as their builder?

I thought this went against all the rules, but I do want to see a couple more teams racing.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by RaggedMan »

moby wrote:I thought there was rule that entrants had to be "constructors". How does it work if Haas is planning to use Dallara tubs and several previous teams have already used that "constructor"? As in Red bull and Torro Rosso.

Not only that, but if another new team wanted tubs built, could they also use Dallara as their builder?

I thought this went against all the rules, but I do want to see a couple more teams racing.

As long as the designs are unique I think it'd be OK.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Eastlygod »

As it sounds that he's using Haas Automation as the main sponsor - it seems we will have another Black, Red and White livery on the grid next year. I was hoping for something more unusual...

In fact - looking at his Haas sponsored NASCAR vehicle, it could look very similar to a Marussia - Image

Could get confusing at the back of the grid...

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by dizlexik »

Laura23 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Laura23 wrote:
I still stick by my guns that he's trying to run it like you'd run an IndyCar op. Even if I did get my Haas' mixed up.



Roger Penske... Chip Ganassi... Michael Andretti....

Show me a better run racing organization anywhere (F1 included) than Roger Penske over the last 30 years


Chip has done pretty well also. Both Penske & Ganassi have also had success in other racing series... from ALMS to NASCAR.

So, pray tell, would be wrong with Haas running his team like an IndyCar op? Is this some kind of typical F1 elitism philosophy or concern that Haas may not be able to play dirty enough to survive F1 politics (if so you may well be right)?

Nope. You can't run an F1 team the way you'd run an IndyCar team and the same vice versa. The series are completely different animals. Nothing elitist going on at all, I thought you knew me better than that Blake.

Horner came from F3000 and he did very good job so far. You said that new Ferrari boss has no experience in racing, yet Haas has a lot and you still have issues with him.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mph »

There is a great deal of negativity on this thread. Good luck to him, it's not like he is a racing newbie, he is well aware of the cost's and the challenge ahead and is no fool.

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mph »

Is it a coincidence that the Haas announcement and Stefano Domenicali leaving Ferrari happened at roughly the same time?
I love a good conspiracy :)

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by silkjet »

mph wrote:There is a great deal of negativity on this thread. Good luck to him, it's not like he is a racing newbie, he is well aware of the cost's and the challenge ahead and is no fool.


I agree. I see why Haas is confident. I grew up in my father's machine shop. There wasn't anything we couldn't fabricate. Given Haas builds CNC machine tools and has a #1 market position, I think he knows how to fabricate.

Haas may not challenge for the podium but he'll likely be ahead of Marussia and Caterham- if those teams even exist. I bet Mercedes is being lobbied behind the scenes to let Haas have the Mercedes PU, to stem the impending loss of backmarker teams (That last bit is my wishful thinking).

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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by mcdo »

I think he should try and buy Lotus and set up shop at Enstone, provided the price is right of course.

Montoya makes a valid point that it makes no sense to operate from Charlotte:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113475
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by Laura23 »

silkjet wrote:
mph wrote:There is a great deal of negativity on this thread. Good luck to him, it's not like he is a racing newbie, he is well aware of the cost's and the challenge ahead and is no fool.


I agree. I see why Haas is confident. I grew up in my father's machine shop. There wasn't anything we couldn't fabricate. Given Haas builds CNC machine tools and has a #1 market position, I think he knows how to fabricate.

Haas may not challenge for the podium but he'll likely be ahead of Marussia and Caterham- if those teams even exist. I bet Mercedes is being lobbied behind the scenes to let Haas have the Mercedes PU, to stem the impending loss of backmarker teams (That last bit is my wishful thinking).

Toto Wolff and Mercedes have already told Haas he can't have Merc power units.
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Re: Confirmed: US team among 2 new teams set for F1 in 2015

Post by HawaiiF1Fan »

Blake wrote:No, I don't Laura....

How are the runnings of a racing team different? What does management of an F1 team do that would be so different in theory to an IRL team? Management has to be aware of the rules and regulations for the series they choose to compete in, they have to hire people to fit the needs for that series,tehy need to make financial arrangements in order to properly fund the effort, has to build a team that gives them the best chance of success in the series they have chosen, they need to continue to develop, study, learn and apply.

I think that the fundamentals of creating a racing program are all the same... Haas is smart enough to know that he must apply sound management to the series and team as it best suits an F1 team. Whether he can do so or not, remains to be seen.



I don't think there is any racing series in the world that has the total number, cost, and pace of development that F1 has. This is something completely new to Haas. Add to this he is setting up a new team as opposed to try an buy out and modify an existing team. Add to this he wants to do this in the US........think about the time differential with trying to work with Dallara on a daily basis.

It just has all the earmarks of an impending implosion.

I think during the race the team will be OK, but it's all the other things that go along with F1 that Haas will struggle with.

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