How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedly?

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sgt_hippo
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How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedly?

Post by sgt_hippo »

Safe to say if he was in another of the top tier teams he would have been shown the door ages ago

8O

Ev0lutionz
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Ev0lutionz »

From edmw come here start thread again? Lol.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by sgt_hippo »

Ev0lutionz wrote:From edmw come here start thread again? Lol.


Maybe should intro PF1 people to join the EDMW F1 thread instead during the race

8O

Ev0lutionz
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Ev0lutionz »

sgt_hippo wrote:
Ev0lutionz wrote:From edmw come here start thread again? Lol.


Maybe should intro PF1 people to join the EDMW F1 thread instead during the race

8O



Can't Leh. Here all from around the world. Hahaha. Culture difference from our Singapore style.

Anyway back on topic. Stefano seems like quite a nice guy, Italian and all. LDM likes him and he won one WCC in 2008

mikeyg123
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by mikeyg123 »

sgt_hippo wrote:Safe to say if he was in another of the top tier teams he would have been shown the door ages ago

8O


I don't think he would. There are four teams who aim to win championships and obviously they can't all win regularly. So long as Ferrari are finishing top four in the WCC then Stefano is doing a decent job.

Harpo
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Harpo »

Because Ferrari's failure is not Domenicalli's fault, may be...
As my brother said : "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it".

sgt_hippo
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by sgt_hippo »

Ev0lutionz wrote:
sgt_hippo wrote:
Ev0lutionz wrote:From edmw come here start thread again? Lol.


Maybe should intro PF1 people to join the EDMW F1 thread instead during the race

8O



Can't Leh. Here all from around the world. Hahaha. Culture difference from our Singapore style.

Anyway back on topic. Stefano seems like quite a nice guy, Italian and all. LDM likes him and he won one WCC in 2008


He's just like David Moyes

So out of his depth but still earns lots of money for it achieving nothing

:lol:

sgt_hippo
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by sgt_hippo »

Just fire this clown now

The car is a disgrace

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Toby.
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Toby. »

Who is going to replace "this clown"? Ferrari have kept him for a reason, though it seems some people on an internet forum have a greater understanding of the operating within Maranello than the people there do.

Funny that.
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by wolfticket »

Aren't there enough "Ferrari are rubbish" threads this could go in?


If anything I think it's people in charge of the power unit development and integration that need to be looked at for answers at the moment.
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RickM
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by RickM »

Anyone would think Domenicalli's the only employee at Ferrari. I wasn't aware he designs the cars, builds them, builds the engine, sets the strategy and drives the races. I hope he's got a decent salary.
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sgt_hippo
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by sgt_hippo »

RickM wrote:Anyone would think Domenicalli's the only employee at Ferrari. I wasn't aware he designs the cars, builds them, builds the engine, sets the strategy and drives the races. I hope he's got a decent salary.

In soccer if a team is consistently rubbish year after year following a managerial chnage after winning lots of trophies

The manager has to go

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by j man »

RickM wrote:Anyone would think Domenicalli's the only employee at Ferrari. I wasn't aware he designs the cars, builds them, builds the engine, sets the strategy and drives the races. I hope he's got a decent salary.

It seems to be the football mentality where if it's not working you fire the manager.

It was an utterly feeble showing from Ferrari today, but looking at how they were being totally mugged down the straights it must surely be engine-related. I'm not sure the engine department is even under Domenicalli's management.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by jrwb6e »

I don't think it was Domenicalli's decision to start the year with a much inferior PU that cannot be modified until 2015.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by fabr68 »

Just remember, we must remain calm.

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froze
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by froze »

Why was Alonso cheering for the 9th place?
“I'm happy, but there's nothing to jump around about.”

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by j man »

sgt_hippo wrote:
RickM wrote:Anyone would think Domenicalli's the only employee at Ferrari. I wasn't aware he designs the cars, builds them, builds the engine, sets the strategy and drives the races. I hope he's got a decent salary.

In soccer if a team is consistently rubbish year after year following a managerial chnage after winning lots of trophies

The manager has to go

Ferrari aren't a football team, they are a large engineering organisation with hundreds of employees and several layers of management. You can't pin the entire blame for the team's shortcomings on one man.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by pc27b »

shouldn't luca be on the hot seat also ?

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by RickM »

pc27b wrote:shouldn't luca be on the hot seat also ?

Blasphemy! The great Luca can do no wrong....apparently. x(
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by fabr68 »

froze wrote:Why was Alonso cheering for the 9th place?


Wasn't cheering. It was lifting the disposable visor high enough to avoid the engine intake.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Teddy007 »

sgt_hippo wrote:Safe to say if he was in another of the top tier teams he would have been shown the door ages ago

8O


Says who?

You think that will make things better?......

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Mr.Wojo »

j man wrote:
sgt_hippo wrote:
RickM wrote:Anyone would think Domenicalli's the only employee at Ferrari. I wasn't aware he designs the cars, builds them, builds the engine, sets the strategy and drives the races. I hope he's got a decent salary.

In soccer if a team is consistently rubbish year after year following a managerial chnage after winning lots of trophies

The manager has to go

Ferrari aren't a football team, they are a large engineering organisation with hundreds of employees and several layers of management. You can't pin the entire blame for the team's shortcomings on one man.


YES YOU CAN!!! And it happens in the corporate world every DAY!

I have been part of several teams where the Team lead was reassigned and/or dismissed for not meeting requirements! Anyone here that works(ed) on a project has been part of a failing project and knows what the outcomes are.

Stefano is a failure and should be dismissed and/or assigned to another task.. simple as that!

It is his job to notice their strengths and eliminate any weaknesses. It is HIS job to make sure that the right talent is acquired and in positions where they can grow and contribute. HE HAS FAILED!

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Arai_or_Nothing »

Toby. wrote:Who is going to replace "this clown"? Ferrari have kept him for a reason, though it seems some people on an internet forum have a greater understanding of the operating within Maranello than the people there do.

Funny that.

And really, what fomal education does SD have to qualify him o be TP?

He was in fact a numbers guy in the most literal sense of the phrase. He was promoted within the Scuderia year after year until Todt, Brawn and Co. were shown the door, and outside the fact he is a red blooded Italian, NOTHING else suggested he was qualified to lead the F1 operation the likes of Maranello. That the team won a WCC in 2008 is also not a direct reflection of is ability to "lead" this outfit and the cars the team produced for 2007 and 2008 were designed by the previous regime so again, nothing to shine a light on him in any way.

I'm not saying the guy is all out terrible, but it's clear the team is lacking a little something and perhaps someone else might be better suited for this position. Given how the team have lacked the ability to produce good seasons consistently since he's been at the helm, why not a change in TP already? It's not like the guy hasn't been given PLENTY of time to turn things around and no one should be but hurt if and when they move him back behind a desk or show him some good ole italian leather down below and show him the door.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Zoue »

Can't agree with the above comments. Alonso wouldn't have gotten within a hair's breadth of winning the WDC in 2010 and 2012 if the team behind him had been rubbish. In 2012 in particular Ferrari worked miracles to keep a clearly inferior car in the hunt right to the end, with some excellent pit work and strategy. SD needs to take a lot of the credit for the well oiled machine it was

SD runs the team but he doesn't design the engine: how is a relatively weak engine his fault at all? If anything the parent company has let him down but it's not as though he has the luxury of getting an alternative in like e.g. McLaren with Honda. He's stuck with what he has got. But in terms of pit stops and strategies Ferrari is usually at the front, while last year they hired a number of key personnel to try to fill any gaps they had (Allison, anyone?). He's doing the best he can with what he has but if the engine is down on power he's no miracle worker, and the engine is NOT his responsibility.

Don't blame the workman if his tools are crap

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Filip »

Zoue wrote:Can't agree with the above comments. Alonso wouldn't have gotten within a hair's breadth of winning the WDC in 2010 and 2012 if the team behind him had been rubbish. In 2012 in particular Ferrari worked miracles to keep a clearly inferior car in the hunt right to the end, with some excellent pit work and strategy. SD needs to take a lot of the credit for the well oiled machine it was

SD runs the team but he doesn't design the engine: how is a relatively weak engine his fault at all? If anything the parent company has let him down but it's not as though he has the luxury of getting an alternative in like e.g. McLaren with Honda. He's stuck with what he has got. But in terms of pit stops and strategies Ferrari is usually at the front, while last year they hired a number of key personnel to try to fill any gaps they had (Allison, anyone?). He's doing the best he can with what he has but if the engine is down on power he's no miracle worker, and the engine is NOT his responsibility.

Don't blame the workman if his tools are crap


His tools were crap, but his calls also, since he got that job i remember wrong strategies, pointless gambling, all those years sadly it looked like Alonso is battling Redbull alone, i admired Redbull how they controlled Vettel, during the races, strategies etc, Christian and guys have done incredible job.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by sandman1347 »

Despite the considerable successes that SD has been a part of, it would seem a regime change is in order at Ferrari. They are just slowly decaying at this point. Why not cut it short and begin to rebuild. They are going down the same path that McLaren has and, like McLaren, they will need a new man at the helm to really get things turned around. I say this not as a critique of SD but as a logical next step for the team. I bet SD will find success elsewhere if he leaves. It doesn't mean his career is over.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Blake »

sandman, you may be right, thank you for a reasoned response to the topic.

I like Domenicalli, and think that he has brought some positives to the team, things that he does not get credit for. However, I think that they do need to look closely at every aspect of the team.... designers, technicians, as well as management.

However, to those who have been saying that Luca and the team are content to be mediocre, that image of Luca that so many are gloating over also answers that question with resound.
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by av-rated »

Buck stops with LdM....he's as much to blame as SD and his team of Brit managers.
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by trento »

David Moyes is Scottish. Stefano is Italian. They will both keep their jobs, whatever happens.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by trento »

Blake wrote:sandman, you may be right, thank you for a reasoned response to the topic.

I like Domenicalli, and think that he has brought some positives to the team, things that he does not get credit for. However, I think that they do need to look closely at every aspect of the team.... designers, technicians, as well as management.

However, to those who have been saying that Luca and the team are content to be mediocre, that image of Luca that so many are gloating over also answers that question with resound.


That's Stefano's responsibility, to oversee the design process.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Blake »

and where did I say that it was not, trento?

Getting rid of Domenicalli without addressing the other issues is pretty silly. Why are the engines underpowered? Why is the car not as comfortable on track as some of the others? If indeed the car is overweight, why? Of course, the bottom line ends with Domenicalli & Luca, but the team also needs to address why they are struggling now. I don't think you can bring in a replacement for Domenicalli and have an overnight fix.
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Robot »

Zoue wrote:
Don't blame the workman if his tools are crap


Is Domenicali job to give the tools to his people.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Zoue »

Filip wrote:
Zoue wrote:Can't agree with the above comments. Alonso wouldn't have gotten within a hair's breadth of winning the WDC in 2010 and 2012 if the team behind him had been rubbish. In 2012 in particular Ferrari worked miracles to keep a clearly inferior car in the hunt right to the end, with some excellent pit work and strategy. SD needs to take a lot of the credit for the well oiled machine it was

SD runs the team but he doesn't design the engine: how is a relatively weak engine his fault at all? If anything the parent company has let him down but it's not as though he has the luxury of getting an alternative in like e.g. McLaren with Honda. He's stuck with what he has got. But in terms of pit stops and strategies Ferrari is usually at the front, while last year they hired a number of key personnel to try to fill any gaps they had (Allison, anyone?). He's doing the best he can with what he has but if the engine is down on power he's no miracle worker, and the engine is NOT his responsibility.

Don't blame the workman if his tools are crap


His tools were crap, but his calls also, since he got that job i remember wrong strategies, pointless gambling, all those years sadly it looked like Alonso is battling Redbull alone, i admired Redbull how they controlled Vettel, during the races, strategies etc, Christian and guys have done incredible job.

That depends on whether you think the Ferrari was better than the Red Bull in e.g. 2012. if you think the Ferrari was better, then you might have cause to blame SD. But if like most you think the RBR was a better car, then SD should take some of the credit for helping Alonso fight right until the end.

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Zoue »

Robot wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Don't blame the workman if his tools are crap


Is Domenicali job to give the tools to his people.

That's a bit broad. If the engine is underpowered then how is he supposed to do anything about it exactly? Unlike most other TPs he doesn't have the luxury of choice. The parent company has something to answer for in not delivering an engine strong enough to compete with the Mercedes, but that cannot be laid at SD's door.

The car is not a complete dog but they were shown up on a power circuit. Things should be a little different at other tracks

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by RickM »

People still seem to forget things about Ferrari. People act like they have been successful evey single year until recently. They've had a hell of a lot more mediocre patches than awesome ones. This is nothing new at all. The media (mostly Italian) love painting Ferrari as a dominating, amazing team ,which frankly they are not, and have not been for years.

Is that down to 1 guy? Yep. But it ain't Stefano ;)
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by RunningMan »

If you're going to criticise him, at least do it in a balanced way and look at the positives as well

Alonso has had 1 mechanical DNF since 2010. Just one, most other teams/drivers are probably in double digits. Does SD get any credit for this? Nope.
Ferrari have had consistently quick and reliable pitstops. When was the last time you saw a Ferrari leave the pits without a wheel on. Or have a sticky rear wheel or whatever? Very rarely.
Look at the start to the 2012 season, that is an example of how to brilliantly manage a team from trackside. In a sub standard car, they took the maximum from each and every race, under SD's leadership. Over the course of that year, they probably had 2 screw ups during a race. Canada and Silverstone. That's a lot less than the likes of Red Bull and McLaren had during that year

Sure the cars has been mediocre, but let's not act like the guy is an idiot. He's clearly done a lot of right in Ferrari these past few years. Ferrari have some deep rooted issues that are preventing them from being the class of the field. They were closest in 2010, and have gradually become further away from the mark. Maybe it was the scapegoating of key personnel. Chris Dyer and Aldo Costa (who went to Mercedes and look at them now) to name a few examples.

Sacking Domenicalli and making him yet another scapegoat is not the answer.
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Zoue »

RunningMan wrote:If you're going to criticise him, at least do it in a balanced way and look at the positives as well

Alonso has had 1 mechanical DNF since 2010. Just one, most other teams/drivers are probably in double digits. Does SD get any credit for this? Nope.
Ferrari have had consistently quick and reliable pitstops. When was the last time you saw a Ferrari leave the pits without a wheel on. Or have a sticky rear wheel or whatever? Very rarely.
Look at the start to the 2012 season, that is an example of how to brilliantly manage a team from trackside. In a sub standard car, they took the maximum from each and every race, under SD's leadership. Over the course of that year, they probably had 2 screw ups during a race. Canada and Silverstone. That's a lot less than the likes of Red Bull and McLaren had during that year

Sure the cars has been mediocre, but let's not act like the guy is an idiot. He's clearly done a lot of right in Ferrari these past few years. Ferrari have some deep rooted issues that are preventing them from being the class of the field. They were closest in 2010, and have gradually become further away from the mark. Maybe it was the scapegoating of key personnel. Chris Dyer and Aldo Costa (who went to Mercedes and look at them now) to name a few examples.

Sacking Domenicalli and making him yet another scapegoat is not the answer.

:thumbup:

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

I never like the guy. I thought Kimi in Ferrari sucked with flashes of brilliance. But, they were never able to get best out of Kimi. The Kimi of Mclaren-Mercedes days. But anyways in a recent interview he said this. :lol:


Your exit from the Ferrari team principal position has been predicted many times. How many more difficult seasons can you survive?

SD: I don’t care what people say, because there are so many people wanting my job. It is a privilege to be in this position, but once it is over, don’t worry, I will be around - not here, but in another place. That is not a personal problem. Say to all those jealous people wanting this job: they have to fight for it!


http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2014/4/15650.html
Sir Stirling Moss "Quite frankly, Kimi Raikkonen is the fastest driver in the world"

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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by Blake »

Zoue wrote:
RunningMan wrote:If you're going to criticise him, at least do it in a balanced way and look at the positives as well

Alonso has had 1 mechanical DNF since 2010. Just one, most other teams/drivers are probably in double digits. Does SD get any credit for this? Nope.
Ferrari have had consistently quick and reliable pitstops. When was the last time you saw a Ferrari leave the pits without a wheel on. Or have a sticky rear wheel or whatever? Very rarely.
Look at the start to the 2012 season, that is an example of how to brilliantly manage a team from trackside. In a sub standard car, they took the maximum from each and every race, under SD's leadership. Over the course of that year, they probably had 2 screw ups during a race. Canada and Silverstone. That's a lot less than the likes of Red Bull and McLaren had during that year

Sure the cars has been mediocre, but let's not act like the guy is an idiot. He's clearly done a lot of right in Ferrari these past few years. Ferrari have some deep rooted issues that are preventing them from being the class of the field. They were closest in 2010, and have gradually become further away from the mark. Maybe it was the scapegoating of key personnel. Chris Dyer and Aldo Costa (who went to Mercedes and look at them now) to name a few examples.

Sacking Domenicalli and making him yet another scapegoat is not the answer.

:thumbup:


:thumbup: +1
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Re: How is Stefano Domenicalli's failure tolerated repeatedl

Post by dizlexik »

Is he really that bad? Even Ron Dennis had very long periods without winning anything. Jean Todt also needed a lot of time win his first title as a TP. Horner too. As RunningMan said, Stefano did a lot of good things too. Simply sacking him is not solution to any Ferrari problems. You sack him, then what?
eeee

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