2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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UnlikeUday
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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All drivers have their names written in Arabic too. I like it.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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There's a dress code for the safety car too in Saudi Arabia. Not Your typical British Racing Green!

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

Does anyone have the track layout with speeds and gears? I believe we saw something like that for Qatar.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Bacus »

I too would go against the popular opinion, I don't think the track is that bad for RB. It's a lot about downforce here - in a low wing setup. RB has the downforce rake, also the corners are pretty straightforward, short and fast (the track also looks kinda narrow), that would mean you need instant grip - Merc usually its better at longer, windy corners with various radius, as their balance is their asset IMO. RB is all about raw downforce, not being so precise in handling as Merc.

My biggest concern for RB would be the temp, as it could be low again as in Qatar, and there RB went well initially in the hotter FP1 and then dropped away.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

Looking at the rear wing photos on twitter, it looks like medium DF wings, the ones RB used in Brazil and wanted to use in Qatar.

Most are speculating that lot of lap time will be made in sector 1, compared to the flat out sectors 2&3. My first impression is that it may end up being good for RB as sector 1 is more twisty. Its gonna be mighty close, with track temps and grip determining which set up works best.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Delphic wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:41 pm
Does anyone have the track layout with speeds and gears? I believe we saw something like that for Qatar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... e&sort=new

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by A_Game_A_Day »

Safety Car lap of track from F1 channel:

https://youtu.be/DBYuy-rBL60

(Sorry, haven't worked out how to embed.)

Track looks narrow, no room for error through the high speed change of direction sweeps, plus guaranteed safety car from turn 1 and 2 at the start.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Delay to F2 practice starting, no reason given. I hope the track being finished late in the day isn’t going to cause problems.

Edit: operational delays according to the F2 Twitter account, whatever that means.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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Did anyone see the F2 cars in action? What's Your initial opinion now?
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Banana Man »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:59 pm
Did anyone see the F2 cars in action? What's Your initial opinion now?
I watched most of it. The track looks fairly unforgiving in places, which could lead to some incidents, even for the F1 drivers. Reminds me of the faster parts of Baku and Singapore in places.
I remember when this website was all fields.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

For those of you watching on Sky UK, I think the race starts at half five on Sunday. Not 100% sure if they got the point across though.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

So Mercedes 1-2 with 0.2s over Verstappen but that’s them on softs and Max on hards as he didn’t improve on softs. Ultimately probably a fairly meaningless session in terms of what we can learn.

Edit: just after I post this Verstappen does improve on the softs and goes P2 0.056 behind Hamilton.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

5/100s is extremely close. Not much to choose from, but again its just FP1. Race conditions will be more like FP2.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by baksonlee »

If we can extrapolate any information from P1, Red Bull looks like better car (so far).

Max was super quick on the hards, and was only 0.05s behind on softs when not in clear traffic.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

baksonlee wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:36 pm
If we can extrapolate any information from P1, Red Bull looks like better car (so far).

Max was super quick on the hards, and was only 0.05s behind on softs when not in clear traffic.
Its sector 1. Early analysis is showing that lot of lap time can be made in S1, and the straights on S2 and S3 wont be enough to overcome the deficit. The curves in S1 favor Red Bull, especially if they get their medium DF wing to work, which they were not able to in Qatar.

However, its too early to say. Merc may be running their own program. Also, worth noting that they switch to the spicy engine only in Fp3 or so (I could stand corrected on this).

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Some scary moments for Hamilton with slow moving cars trying to make space. Needs sorting ASAP.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Oooosh. Big whack for Charles.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Schermerhorn »

Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
You’re not in a fight until there’s pressure. Resistance. Overcoming something. Otherwise, it’s just an exhibition.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by pokerman »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:25 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
He looked elite against Vettel, now he's in discussion for the best of the rest behind Hamilton and Max.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:25 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
Charles LeCrash, you might say.

Serious note - glad he walked away

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Schermerhorn »

pokerman wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:39 pm
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:25 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
He looked elite against Vettel, now he's in discussion for the best of the rest behind Hamilton and Max.

Vettel has declined so rapidly that he is having trouble containing Stroll so it's not much of a yardstick anymore I'm afraid.

Leclerc has speed, no doubt, but he makes too many mistakes because he over drives the car and bins it. He needs to reign it in.
You’re not in a fight until there’s pressure. Resistance. Overcoming something. Otherwise, it’s just an exhibition.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

Both Hamilton and Verstappen have had a lot of meetings with walls at Monaco and Baku (at least 3 significant each) - the drivers closest to the limit are the ones most likely to have these incidents.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:23 pm
Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.
Yeah I agree with you that Horner sounded confident when he was on Sky afterwards.

Not sure where you’ve got the 1 second advantage on race pace from but my friend who listened to practice on five live said that Mercedes were a lot ahead too.

Interestingly as well, the circuit isn’t as power sensitive as simulations predicted: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... advantage/

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:22 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:23 pm
Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.
Yeah I agree with you that Horner sounded confident when he was on Sky afterwards.

Not sure where you’ve got the 1 second advantage on race pace from but my friend who listened to practice on five live said that Mercedes were a lot ahead too.

Interestingly as well, the circuit isn’t as power sensitive as simulations predicted: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... advantage/
This may seem a stupid question, but if traffic is such a problem, why can't cars go out across the session more evenly rather than all at once. I know slipstream can sometimes be beneficial, but the risk involved at times so often ruins the attempt entirely. The mess is avoidable, but teams chose to go out all at once a bit too often IMO.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:31 pm
JN23 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:22 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:23 pm
Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.
Yeah I agree with you that Horner sounded confident when he was on Sky afterwards.

Not sure where you’ve got the 1 second advantage on race pace from but my friend who listened to practice on five live said that Mercedes were a lot ahead too.

Interestingly as well, the circuit isn’t as power sensitive as simulations predicted: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... advantage/
This may seem a stupid question, but if traffic is such a problem, why can't cars go out across the session more evenly rather than all at once. I know slipstream can sometimes be beneficial, but the risk involved at times so often ruins the attempt entirely. The mess is avoidable, but teams chose to go out all at once a bit too often IMO.
Yeah I agree with you. In practice it doesn’t make a huge amount of sense but in qualifying they don’t want to go out too early and set times too early before the track speeds up as more grip is put down on the track.

The queuing at the end of a lap is something that F1/FIA needs to sort out next year (if not sooner) as it seems an accident waiting to happen to me.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

JN23 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:22 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:23 pm
Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.
Yeah I agree with you that Horner sounded confident when he was on Sky afterwards.

Not sure where you’ve got the 1 second advantage on race pace from but my friend who listened to practice on five live said that Mercedes were a lot ahead too.

Interestingly as well, the circuit isn’t as power sensitive as simulations predicted: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... advantage/
Read it online. Not exactly 1 sec, but almost. So could be .7 or 0.8.

Anyway, in terms of one lap pace it looks like a coin flip, pretty close. Thats why maybe Lewis was not too happy or Horner was confident. He may be thinking if Max gets pole he can win with the right strategy given overtaking will be hard.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:56 pm
JN23 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:22 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:23 pm
Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.
Yeah I agree with you that Horner sounded confident when he was on Sky afterwards.

Not sure where you’ve got the 1 second advantage on race pace from but my friend who listened to practice on five live said that Mercedes were a lot ahead too.

Interestingly as well, the circuit isn’t as power sensitive as simulations predicted: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... advantage/
Read it online. Not exactly 1 sec, but almost. So could be .7 or 0.8.

Anyway, in terms of one lap pace it looks like a coin flip, pretty close. Thats why maybe Lewis was not too happy or Horner was confident. He may be thinking if Max gets pole he can win with the right strategy given overtaking will be hard.
Yeah that was my thinking too on Horner being happy. The softs seemingly not being faster than the mediums is a bit of a curveball.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by lucifers »

Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:56 pm
JN23 wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:22 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:23 pm
Traffic is going to cause headaches for many cars tomorrow. I am sure Max and Lewis would want to get their laps as soon as the window opens

Hamilton almost 1 sec over Max in race pace? I am taking this with a grain of salt as based on Max's radio it looks like he gave preferred qualy sims over race sims in FP2. Understandable as it looks like passing is going to be hard and whoever is on pole has a huge advantage.

So far Merc advantage. I am just hoping they don't fumble this weekend away due to silly mistakes or errors. That being said Horner sounded pretty confident after today, so maybe he knows that Red Bull have something saved for tomorrow. He thinks the cars are too close, and the track won't provide the advantage to Merc the way Brazil did.
Yeah I agree with you that Horner sounded confident when he was on Sky afterwards.

Not sure where you’ve got the 1 second advantage on race pace from but my friend who listened to practice on five live said that Mercedes were a lot ahead too.

Interestingly as well, the circuit isn’t as power sensitive as simulations predicted: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... advantage/
Read it online. Not exactly 1 sec, but almost. So could be .7 or 0.8.

Anyway, in terms of one lap pace it looks like a coin flip, pretty close. Thats why maybe Lewis was not too happy or Horner was confident. He may be thinking if Max gets pole he can win with the right strategy given overtaking will be hard.
and we know merc strategy leaves alot to be desired

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

After watching 2 practice sessions all I can say is if I was Hamilton the last thing I would want to do is go in turn 1 and 2 side by side with Verstappen, that's including either the inside or outside, looks like a collision waiting to happen for me.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Banana Man »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:38 pm
Both Hamilton and Verstappen have had a lot of meetings with walls at Monaco and Baku (at least 3 significant each) - the drivers closest to the limit are the ones most likely to have these incidents.
The drivers closest to the limit of their own talent and the adhesion of their vehicle. In that regard I’d say other my well be closer and more erratic in how close they get to those limits.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by kleefton »

Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:25 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
What is going on at Ferrari is pretty interesting. It seems that Sainz is slowly stealing the team away from Leclerc. Rumor has it (Peter Windsor) for some reason Ferrari likes Sainz a lot and there also talks that he is steering car development towards his driving style. Fact is he has outqualified Charles 3 times in a row and this weekend so far he is ahead again. Leclerc putting it in the wall perhaps shows he is trying to find pace he does not have. I think the dynamic might change over there quickly and Sainz might end up the #1 driver, especially if he ends up beating him in their first year as teammates.
I have always heard that engineers value Sainz's feedback more than most. So it's not really surprising to me. Let's see what happens.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Mort Canard »

kleefton wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:56 am
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:25 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
What is going on at Ferrari is pretty interesting. It seems that Sainz is slowly stealing the team away from Leclerc. Rumor has it (Peter Windsor) for some reason Ferrari likes Sainz a lot and there also talks that he is steering car development towards his driving style. Fact is he has outqualified Charles 3 times in a row and this weekend so far he is ahead again. Leclerc putting it in the wall perhaps shows he is trying to find pace he does not have. I think the dynamic might change over there quickly and Sainz might end up the #1 driver, especially if he ends up beating him in their first year as teammates.
I have always heard that engineers value Sainz's feedback more than most. So it's not really surprising to me. Let's see what happens.
:thumbup: :nod:

I thought at the start of the year that Carlos Jr. was going to take the fight to Charles by the end of the season.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Quite an informative vid of rear wings used here in Jeddah. Interesting bit from 6:42 where Craig talks about how Flexi wings work & their legality.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Schermerhorn »

kleefton wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:56 am
Schermerhorn wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:25 pm
Delphic wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:59 pm
Good to see Leclerc getting his obligatory session ending crash out of the way. Better here than in qualifying.

For a supposedly elite driver he sure does crash alot.

IMO, if he loses that Ferrari (political) support he will burn out very fast.
What is going on at Ferrari is pretty interesting. It seems that Sainz is slowly stealing the team away from Leclerc. Rumor has it (Peter Windsor) for some reason Ferrari likes Sainz a lot and there also talks that he is steering car development towards his driving style. Fact is he has outqualified Charles 3 times in a row and this weekend so far he is ahead again. Leclerc putting it in the wall perhaps shows he is trying to find pace he does not have. I think the dynamic might change over there quickly and Sainz might end up the #1 driver, especially if he ends up beating him in their first year as teammates.
I have always heard that engineers value Sainz's feedback more than most. So it's not really surprising to me. Let's see what happens.
Makes sense, Sainz is older and has more F1 experience and has been with various teams so will have picked up a trick or two and make it part of his repertoire.

Big fan of Carlos here.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

kleefton wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:56 am
I think the dynamic might change over there quickly and Sainz might end up the #1 driver, especially if he ends up beating him in their first year as teammates.
The more time this partnership develops the more it looks like Hamilton-Button at McLaren. Leclerc is the clearly faster and superior driver in both qualifying and race finishes but Sainz is the better schmoozer and diplomat. His advantage over Jenson is his technical feedback.

Leclerc needs to harness Sainz's feedback just like Schumacher harnessed Barrichello's.

Button won McLaren around after his first 3 races in 2010 and was comfortably beaten by Hamilton over the rest of the season.

I'm not sure Ferrari wants a repeat of the late 2000's because the equal status between Raikkonen and Massa cost the latter the title and the former just squeaked it.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Tufty »

The run to T1 is very tight from what we just saw in F2, expect contact into the chicane.
Anyone in or near North Wales interested in an RC car racing tournament?

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