2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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UnlikeUday
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2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

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Neat gameplay around this track I've played it as well It's fun, tricky & fast with flowing corners. No room for errors to say the least.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

My impression is there could be five safety cars and three red flags but as someone reminded me on here while ago, we thought that at Baku and the first race there was a dud that passed off without incident.

It should suit Mercedes a lot and see them have a big advantage over Red Bull who might not even be second fastest in qualy if you look at Monza. However, the street circuit issues that Mercedes sometimes have could throw a spanner in the works.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

JN23 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:14 pm
My impression is there could be five safety cars and three red flags but as someone reminded me on here while ago, we thought that at Baku and the first race there was a dud that passed off without incident.

It should suit Mercedes a lot and see them have a big advantage over Red Bull who might not even be second fastest in qualy if you look at Monza. However, the street circuit issues that Mercedes sometimes have could throw a spanner in the works.
Same thing was said about Zandvoort earlier this year as well.

We see so many tracks with acres of run off where drivers constantly "make mistakes" and run wide that we forget that these drivers are actually quite good and can well stay on track when required.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

The absolute gherkin is going to be taken at turns 1/2 on lap one. Half expecting Alonso to be leading.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

Looks like a DRS train track, so qualy will be the key.

Also, read that RB managed to solve their rear wing issues, which means they don't need to run their high downforce wing. I am actually expecting Red Bull to do well here, contrary to the popular opinion that's its a Merc track. Only thing to consider is how strong will the engine be given that this will be it's 7th(?) race?

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:29 pm
The absolute gherkin is going to be taken at turns 1/2 on lap one. Half expecting Alonso to be leading.
Absolutely expecting Alonso to cut the track and go up 1-2 positions.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Delphic wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:41 pm
Looks like a DRS train track, so qualy will be the key.

Also, read that RB managed to solve their rear wing issues, which means they don't need to run their high downforce wing. I am actually expecting Red Bull to do well here, contrary to the popular opinion that's its a Merc track. Only thing to consider is how strong will the engine be given that this will be it's 7th(?) race?
For Red Bull to be faster here everything we know about the relative strengths of the cars, the temps they work best in and the abrasiveness of circuits they can get the tyres turned on best on would have to be wrong.

Not to mention the fact that they are trying to limp through on a prehistoric engine.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

A good graphical representation of the DRS zones:

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

The twisty 1st sector looks like a RB sector. The 2nd sector is a mix of twisty turns & a swerving straight which could again favour RB. The last sector has 2 straights (1 curved straight & the main straight) which could favour Merc.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:53 pm
Delphic wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:41 pm
Looks like a DRS train track, so qualy will be the key.

Also, read that RB managed to solve their rear wing issues, which means they don't need to run their high downforce wing. I am actually expecting Red Bull to do well here, contrary to the popular opinion that's its a Merc track. Only thing to consider is how strong will the engine be given that this will be it's 7th(?) race?
For Red Bull to be faster here everything we know about the relative strengths of the cars, the temps they work best in and the abrasiveness of circuits they can get the tyres turned on best on would have to be wrong.

Not to mention the fact that they are trying to limp through on a prehistoric engine.
Yeah, engine degradation could be an issue. But Marko (lol) is confident that RB engines degrade much less compared to Merc AND Merc have lost of their juice in Brazil due to them running in higher modes for the entire sprint and race day.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

I am kinda surprised that none of the other Merc powered teams are not taking a new ICE for this weekend. I mean if you think about it all Merc teams could take a new engine and it would probably work out quite well

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Jeddah track at night:
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:43 pm
I am kinda surprised that none of the other Merc powered teams are not taking a new ICE for this weekend. I mean if you think about it all Merc teams could take a new engine and it would probably work out quite well
It's only Tuesday, there was rumours Max was going to take an engine penalty this weekend.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:23 pm
FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:43 pm
I am kinda surprised that none of the other Merc powered teams are not taking a new ICE for this weekend. I mean if you think about it all Merc teams could take a new engine and it would probably work out quite well
It's only Tuesday, there was rumours Max was going to take an engine penalty this weekend.
It might be worth it TBH.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

I’m not hugely convinced overtaking will be that easy here. There are a lot of flat out sections but they aren’t all straights, more bendy straights like at Valencia/the back straight at Russia which I think makes it harder.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

JN23 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:59 pm
I’m not hugely convinced overtaking will be that easy here. There are a lot of flat out sections but they aren’t all straights, more bendy straights like at Valencia/the back straight at Russia which I think makes it harder.
There are 3 DRS zones though Mate. 2 of them are back to back in the 3rd sector.
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

A picture of the paddock. Work is still going on at places.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by FormulaFun »

schumilegend wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm
This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi
You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm
This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi
You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Can we safely assume the newly built track will have a slippery tarmac or with less grip (similar to Turkey last year)?
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by tootsie323 »

I don't think that we can safely assume anything! Track surface, Merc runaway... not even the reappearance of a dinosaur at Abu Dhabi.
Where I'm going, I don't need roads

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by IDFD »

schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:31 am
FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm
This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi
You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch
Turning up the engines in Q3 isn't a thing anymore.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:19 am
Can we safely assume the newly built track will have a slippery tarmac or with less grip (similar to Turkey last year)?
Gasly thinks this but I’ve read the opposite suggested. Apparently they’ve water blasted it which they did before Turkey this year and that was very high grip when it was dry.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

JN23 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:35 am
UnlikeUday wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:19 am
Can we safely assume the newly built track will have a slippery tarmac or with less grip (similar to Turkey last year)?
Gasly thinks this but I’ve read the opposite suggested. Apparently they’ve water blasted it which they did before Turkey this year and that was very high grip when it was dry.
It's been reported that it's very abrasive. We will see though.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:12 am
JN23 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:35 am
UnlikeUday wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:19 am
Can we safely assume the newly built track will have a slippery tarmac or with less grip (similar to Turkey last year)?
Gasly thinks this but I’ve read the opposite suggested. Apparently they’ve water blasted it which they did before Turkey this year and that was very high grip when it was dry.
It's been reported that it's very abrasive. We will see though.
What impact would that have?

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Siao7 »

JN23 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:17 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:12 am
JN23 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:35 am
UnlikeUday wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:19 am
Can we safely assume the newly built track will have a slippery tarmac or with less grip (similar to Turkey last year)?
Gasly thinks this but I’ve read the opposite suggested. Apparently they’ve water blasted it which they did before Turkey this year and that was very high grip when it was dry.
It's been reported that it's very abrasive. We will see though.
What impact would that have?
I think it would definitely kill the tyres.

Edit - wasn't it also the same issue that caused all the tyre failures in the US GP in 2005? The very abrasive track? It puts more load on the tyres and there's more risk of failure

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

JN23 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:17 am
mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:12 am
JN23 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:35 am
UnlikeUday wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:19 am
Can we safely assume the newly built track will have a slippery tarmac or with less grip (similar to Turkey last year)?
Gasly thinks this but I’ve read the opposite suggested. Apparently they’ve water blasted it which they did before Turkey this year and that was very high grip when it was dry.
It's been reported that it's very abrasive. We will see though.
What impact would that have?
Here is a closeup of the track:

Image
Source - Imgur
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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Some great lineups for the interviews:

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Delphic »

tootsie323 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:47 am
I don't think that we can safely assume anything! Track surface, Merc runaway... not even the reappearance of a dinosaur at Abu Dhabi.
Exactly. If anything this season has shown as that every weekend is unpredictable.

Brazil RB track? Hamilton demolition derby
Austin Merc track? Max kills it
Qatar rear limited favoring RB? Merc and Lewis coast comfortably
And many other examples of uncertainty.....

I won't be a bit surprised that Max and RB end up winning this race, without any Merc mistakes or accidents. I actually have a gut feeling that it may well be the case. I am rooting for Hamilton to win so I hope not.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:40 am
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:31 am
FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm
This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi
You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch
Turning up the engines in Q3 isn't a thing anymore.
So the times get magically faster in Q3?

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by JN23 »

schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:56 pm
IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:40 am
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:31 am
FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm
This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi
You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch
Turning up the engines in Q3 isn't a thing anymore.
So the times get magically faster in Q3?
Track evolution, drivers at the front pushing harder than they do in Q1 and Q2.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by IDFD »

schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:56 pm
IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:40 am
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:31 am
FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:47 pm
This is a Merc 1-2 track... Hamilton to be leading Max by 3 points going into Abu Dhabi
You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch
Turning up the engines in Q3 isn't a thing anymore.
So the times get magically faster in Q3?
I'd expect the laps to get faster as the track evolves and the drivers get more and more in to their groove. Why would they get slower? But the obvious reason is the drivers start the race on their Q2 tyres. They try to get through with as little damage to the tyres as possible and generally on a medium / hard set of tyres that they want to start the race on. Whereas in Q3 they bolt on a set of softs that they hope to never use again and go balls out. And this is after they've already put in a banker lap so they can afford to take further risk. You screw the car in Q2 and you've ruined quali. You do it in Q3 with first or second already in the bag and it's not such a problem.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:56 pm
IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:40 am
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:31 am
FormulaFun wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:34 pm


You have more faith in Bottas than I do lol

Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch
Turning up the engines in Q3 isn't a thing anymore.
So the times get magically faster in Q3?
I'd expect the laps to get faster as the track evolves and the drivers get more and more in to their groove. Why would they get slower? But the obvious reason is the drivers start the race on their Q2 tyres. They try to get through with as little damage to the tyres as possible and generally on a medium / hard set of tyres that they want to start the race on. Whereas in Q3 they bolt on a set of softs that they hope to never use again and go balls out. And this is after they've already put in a banker lap so they can afford to take further risk. You screw the car in Q2 and you've ruined quali. You do it in Q3 with first or second already in the bag and it's not such a problem.
These (top)drivers are well capable of driving 1-2% off the ultimate limit comfortably which would be a tenth or half a tenth at the most... To suggest they find half a second in them and "track evolution" which is a minute between sessions is *Definitely True*

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by IDFD »

But you'll ignore the fact they're managing medium tyres in Q2 and going all out on softs in Q3?

I mean it's a fairly obvious reason for the times to get quicker right?

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:22 pm
IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:56 pm
IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:40 am
schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:31 am



Bottas can get the job done if he has a significant advantage on Verstappen which will be the case in Saudi when they turn up the engines in Q3...Watch
Turning up the engines in Q3 isn't a thing anymore.
So the times get magically faster in Q3?
I'd expect the laps to get faster as the track evolves and the drivers get more and more in to their groove. Why would they get slower? But the obvious reason is the drivers start the race on their Q2 tyres. They try to get through with as little damage to the tyres as possible and generally on a medium / hard set of tyres that they want to start the race on. Whereas in Q3 they bolt on a set of softs that they hope to never use again and go balls out. And this is after they've already put in a banker lap so they can afford to take further risk. You screw the car in Q2 and you've ruined quali. You do it in Q3 with first or second already in the bag and it's not such a problem.
These (top)drivers are well capable of driving 1-2% off the ultimate limit comfortably which would be a tenth or half a tenth at the most... To suggest they find half a second in them and "track evolution" which is a minute between sessions is *Definitely True*
I don't know what to tell you other than anyone turning up the engine is breaking the rules.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by schumilegend »

IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:46 pm
But you'll ignore the fact they're managing medium tyres in Q2 and going all out on softs in Q3?

I mean it's a fairly obvious reason for the times to get quicker right?
They have run Softs plenty of times in Q2

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by IDFD »

schumilegend wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:51 pm
IDFD wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:46 pm
But you'll ignore the fact they're managing medium tyres in Q2 and going all out on softs in Q3?

I mean it's a fairly obvious reason for the times to get quicker right?
They have run Softs plenty of times in Q2
Okay. You must be right. It's nothing to do with it. They turn the engines up.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by Johnson »

There has stopped being a big jump from Q2 to Q3 since the mode ban.

For example in Brazil when the same tyres were used all through Q2 and Q3 due to the sprint race, nearly all the drivers found about 0.1.

Most of the jump is due to tyre compound and not taking a risk to flat spot the tyre they start the race on.

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Re: 2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

Post by IDFD »

Johnson wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:57 pm
There has stopped being a big jump from Q2 to Q3 since the mode ban.

For example in Brazil when the same tyres were used all through Q2 and Q3 due to the sprint race, nearly all the drivers found about 0.1.

Most of the jump is due to tyre compound and not taking a risk to flat spot the tyre they start the race on.
I think that's clearly obvious to most. It just doesn't suit the narrative someone wants to create. Engine modes are set when we enter parc Ferme there is no turning it up for Q3 or turning it down during the race. It's why Merc are suddenly struggling with durability they can't run it high, run away and hide and turn it down.

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