COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman
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COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

I love that Adam Cooper is telling it like it is re: the unsupervised and improper partial track resurfacing that was performed earlier. 

COTA addressing bumps for F1 race in wake of MotoGP problems: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/cota ... s/6686148/
Motorsport.com understands the most recent tracks works were done without supervision from a specialist, which meant the job was not done correctly.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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MotoGP apparently threatening to not return as well given the state of the track this year. Not what COTA needs, they've already lost IndyCar.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Tufty wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:33 am
MotoGP apparently threatening to not return as well given the state of the track this year. Not what COTA needs, they've already lost IndyCar.
... and V8SC, WEC, IMSA, World Challenge, WRX, XGames, etc.

And yeah, the condition of the track for MotoGP was disgraceful.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by pc27b »

i figured this place would have filed for bankruptcy by now. hoping someone buys it for pennies on the dollar if they do. then they make a go of the place.

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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pc27b wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:12 pm
i figured this place would have filed for bankruptcy by now. hoping someone buys it for pennies on the dollar if they do. then they make a go of the place.
Considering the cost of what really needs to be done to the circuit, "pennies on the dollar" is the only way I see this place ever being bought. And bankruptcy would probably be the only way it ever gets purchased at a price it's actually worth.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:55 am
Tufty wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:33 am
MotoGP apparently threatening to not return as well given the state of the track this year. Not what COTA needs, they've already lost IndyCar.
... and V8SC, WEC, IMSA, World Challenge, WRX, XGames, etc.

And yeah, the condition of the track for MotoGP was disgraceful.
I hadn't realised it was that bad. At what point does the track cease to be viable?
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

Tufty wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:08 pm
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:55 am
Tufty wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:33 am
MotoGP apparently threatening to not return as well given the state of the track this year. Not what COTA needs, they've already lost IndyCar.
... and V8SC, WEC, IMSA, World Challenge, WRX, XGames, etc.

And yeah, the condition of the track for MotoGP was disgraceful.
I hadn't realised it was that bad. At what point does the track cease to be viable?
No way to know, really, but if they continue with these piecemeal, half-assed patchwork repairs, it's just a matter of time until COTA is another ghost track. The track is in need of major repairs, stemming from the poor soil conditions combined with a poor drainage system choice by the owner at the beginning. The COTA boss has displayed zero interest, however, in getting PROPER repairs done. Knowing Epstein's M.O., he'll continue doing the absolute barest minimum to the track to keep it just raceable and keep F1, NASCAR, & maybe MotoGP coming back. The reason I say "maybe" with MotoGP, is that they need a better track to race on than the cars do. What we saw during MotoGP a couple of weeks ago is completely unacceptable. I honestly feared for the riders' well-being.

Epstein had about 40% of the circuit resurfaced in 2019-2020, with pretty dismal results. He ignored much of the worst bits of the circuit, but the straights are smoother now. However, bumps quickly returned to much of what was resurfaced. Some areas had to resurfaced 1 or even 2 more times, and even then the bumps still came back (at T1, 2, 9, 10, 12, and 18). There was no specialist in these kinds of repairs supervising the work, so it was done poorly and without the proper materials or precision equipment. He also said at the time that he would address the underlying drainage system deficiencies (stemming from his bad decision early on to go with a cheaper, less robust system). Of course, true to form for COTA, that never happened, and the drainage system went untouched. Without drainage upgrades, no repair will last long term.

F1 has COTA listed on the new calendar as "subject to contract". I could see F1 going year to year with them, but I can also see them extending them by 5 years as well. If the State continues to give COTA big annual subsidies for F1, and the track doesn't become completely unraceable (probably not a word), then F1 will probably keep cashing in, at least until they have enough other US venues to race at (Vegas is happening. Indy? Maybe). Then COTA becomes expendable. The funny thing is yesterday I saw an article with Epstein talking about a contract extension being imminent. The article was from 2018.
Last edited by hairy_scotsman on Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

Oh, and the bumps and cracks are only part of the problem. After the latest round of bump grinding, COTA will have large areas that have just been ground and will have a different texture and roughness compared to other areas. On top of that, the two recent stints of resurfacing have left COTA with 3 different kinds and ages of surfaces. The MotoGP riders talked about problems from the constantly changing grip levels from one section to the next. So when F1 gets there, there will be 3 different surfaces, likely with portions of all three having been ground down.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Such stupid irresponsibility with what should be a long-term, world-class venue.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

Tufty wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:27 pm
Such stupid irresponsibility with what should be a long-term, world-class venue.
Yep. It's sad, and it's a real shame. Tavo can't be at all happy with what Bobby's done to the place ... but at least he's no longer the face of the circuit and doesn't have the headache of having to cover for Bobby's mismanagement and utter contempt for the racing, the drivers & riders, and racing fans. Tavo loves racing, the fans, and he absolutely loved that track. It was his baby. So sad he was booted out. Things could be so different.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Tufty wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:27 pm
Such stupid irresponsibility with what should be a long-term, world-class venue.
Mind-boggling, really...

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by Jezza13 »

It'd be a travesty to lose COTA. It's a brilliant track & deserves to be on the calendar for many years to come.
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:28 pm
then F1 will probably keep cashing in, at least until they have enough other US venues to race at (Vegas is happening. Indy? Maybe).
8O
Las Vegas has a race?
When did that become a thing?
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:59 pm
pc27b wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:12 pm
i figured this place would have filed for bankruptcy by now. hoping someone buys it for pennies on the dollar if they do. then they make a go of the place.
Considering the cost of what really needs to be done to the circuit, "pennies on the dollar" is the only way I see this place ever being bought. And bankruptcy would probably be the only way it ever gets purchased at a price it's actually worth.
yep. i'd much rather watch a race on a circuit like this, than the nashville, or many other street circuit abominations.
indy car and now moto gp are out for next season, if f1 has track issues, they are probably gone too. by the end of the year, maybe we see it file bankruptcy, and hope someone who sees the potential, buys it

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

Jezza13 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:27 am
It'd be a travesty to lose COTA. It's a brilliant track & deserves to be on the calendar for many years to come.
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:28 pm
then F1 will probably keep cashing in, at least until they have enough other US venues to race at (Vegas is happening. Indy? Maybe).
8O
Las Vegas has a race?
When did that become a thing?
Well, I mean ... you'll see.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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pc27b wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:11 pm
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:59 pm
pc27b wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:12 pm
i figured this place would have filed for bankruptcy by now. hoping someone buys it for pennies on the dollar if they do. then they make a go of the place.
Considering the cost of what really needs to be done to the circuit, "pennies on the dollar" is the only way I see this place ever being bought. And bankruptcy would probably be the only way it ever gets purchased at a price it's actually worth.
yep. i'd much rather watch a race on a circuit like this, than the nashville, or many other street circuit abominations.
indy car and now moto gp are out for next season, if f1 has track issues, they are probably gone too. by the end of the year, maybe we see it file bankruptcy, and hope someone who sees the potential, buys it
MotoGP is only out if Epstein doesn't meet their minimum demand of resurfacing T2-10. We'll see what happens. IMHO he won't do that at all without a MotoGP or F1 contract extension.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

Get ready to see lots of spots like this all over COTA next weekend for F1. Here they're grinding the nasty bump entering Turn 14. And there are plenty more throughout the circuit. Photo courtesy of my man at the track.

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by pc27b »

let's hope we don't have sections of track coming up

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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pc27b wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:50 pm
let's hope we don't have sections of track coming up
A chunk came up right on the apex of T20 a couple of years ago during MotoGP. A marshall there told me it was giving the bikes' traction control fits.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Turn 10 grinding, shot today. 10 was the first turn to be resurfaced back in 2019.

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by j man »

It's sad to see the place seems to be falling into disrepair, it's one of the best venues on the calendar. It deserves to be the home of the USGP, much more so than some soulless car park in Miami.

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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j man wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:06 pm
It's sad to see the place seems to be falling into disrepair, it's one of the best venues on the calendar. It deserves to be the home of the USGP, much more so than some soulless car park in Miami.
COTA would deserve the USGP if they would properly reinvest in repairing and maintaining the drainage system and then the track. Failing that, they deserve nothing.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:57 pm
j man wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:06 pm
It's sad to see the place seems to be falling into disrepair, it's one of the best venues on the calendar. It deserves to be the home of the USGP, much more so than some soulless car park in Miami.
COTA would deserve the USGP if they would properly reinvest in repairing and maintaining the drainage system and then the track. Failing that, they deserve nothing.
Maybe what COTA really deserves is better management?
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:52 pm
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:57 pm
j man wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:06 pm
It's sad to see the place seems to be falling into disrepair, it's one of the best venues on the calendar. It deserves to be the home of the USGP, much more so than some soulless car park in Miami.
COTA would deserve the USGP if they would properly reinvest in repairing and maintaining the drainage system and then the track. Failing that, they deserve nothing.
Maybe what COTA really deserves is better management?
Nailed it.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:10 am
Jezza13 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:27 am
It'd be a travesty to lose COTA. It's a brilliant track & deserves to be on the calendar for many years to come.
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:28 pm
then F1 will probably keep cashing in, at least until they have enough other US venues to race at (Vegas is happening. Indy? Maybe).
8O
Las Vegas has a race?
When did that become a thing?
Well, I mean ... you'll see.
How many US races are you anticipating in future? Miami, Vegas, Indy... presumably those 3 are without COTA but that's 1/8 of the calendar! Not saying I don't believe you, but this seems very much against the operation of F1 these days. Italy only got Imola and Mugello in because COVID.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

Post by hairy_scotsman »

More than likely, just 2 per year, imho. I have a feeling a rotation might come into play as well.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Thanks for the clarification. Rotation would be interesting, we haven't really seen it in F1 outside of the guest venues for the European GP and the German alternation before we just sort of forgot Germany exists altogether. Personally I'd want COTA (under the aforementioned dream new management) as the 'regular' race, and the other 3 can rotate. Although I do think Indy would be worthy of a permanent spot as well, if F1 works as well there as IndyCar does.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Tufty wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:18 am
Thanks for the clarification. Rotation would be interesting, we haven't really seen it in F1 outside of the guest venues for the European GP and the German alternation before we just sort of forgot Germany exists altogether. Personally I'd want COTA (under the aforementioned dream new management) as the 'regular' race, and the other 3 can rotate. Although I do think Indy would be worthy of a permanent spot as well, if F1 works as well there as IndyCar does.
Having been to the 2018 Indy 500 & seeing what a first-class facility and racing surface IMS is, I would absolutely love to see F1 go back there. I never got to attend when they were there before, but I'd definitely go with my family if it happens.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:57 pm
j man wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:06 pm
It's sad to see the place seems to be falling into disrepair, it's one of the best venues on the calendar. It deserves to be the home of the USGP, much more so than some soulless car park in Miami.
COTA would deserve the USGP if they would properly reinvest in repairing and maintaining the drainage system and then the track. Failing that, they deserve nothing.
Yes agreed. I guess my comment was based mainly on the quality of the racing it produces.

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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glad the track didn't start coming up. what a crowd all weekend!

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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pc27b wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:32 am
glad the track didn't start coming up. what a crowd all weekend!
Yep. The track was a mess, but great crowd. Too bad COTA managed to p**s most of them off.
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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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I've read about a shortage of vendors. hopefully they can get another 3-5 year f1 contract, and make necessary improvements.
have you looked at miami prices ? lol we were going, no chance at those prices, and as far as i could tell, you have to buy all three days

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Re: COTA grinding bumps yet again leading up to USGP

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hairy_scotsman wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:12 am
pc27b wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:32 am
glad the track didn't start coming up. what a crowd all weekend!
Yep. The track was a mess, but great crowd. Too bad COTA managed to p**s most of them off.
P-F1 forum members should crowdfund buying the track :D
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