2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

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wire2004
Posts: 1890
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wire2004 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:00 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:37 pm
.

So, there has been plenty of time for people to look up the regs, has anyone found a regulation that allows the stewards to extend the red flag period to allow car repairs, as opposed for essential safety works on track ?

Strange how everyone is o.k. with the stewards making up new regulations on the hoof.

.
Plenty of time for you too, Greenman. What have you come up with?
Plus, perhaps it was all for safety work. Not simply clearing the circuit but allowing teams to ensure the cars they were sending back out were all safe. I have no problem and I'd rather have a longer red flag and more cars in the race, than a shorter red flag and fewer cars.
Safety work on the cars. If the cars werent safe. Retire them. It's not the FIAs responsibility to have as many cars on the track for the race. It's the teams responsibility to get the work done they can get done. And if then the car is still not ready. Continue working on the car when the race restarts or retire them. Its nit a charity.

Greenman
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Greenman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:00 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:37 pm
.

So, there has been plenty of time for people to look up the regs, has anyone found a regulation that allows the stewards to extend the red flag period to allow car repairs, as opposed for essential safety works on track ?

Strange how everyone is o.k. with the stewards making up new regulations on the hoof.

.
Plenty of time for you too, Greenman. What have you come up with?
Plus, perhaps it was all for safety work. Not simply clearing the circuit but allowing teams to ensure the cars they were sending back out were all safe. I have no problem and I'd rather have a longer red flag and more cars in the race, than a shorter red flag and fewer cars.
.

Perhaps, maybe, any evidence ?

.

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Hadn't initially realised that Williams has now moved about Alfa Romeo as well as Haas. This could be huge financially.
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F1_Ernie
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Ted Kravitz said teams cant tell the driver to box and it's basically upto the driver. Also said Mercedes believe Hamilton would have come out between 8th and 10th if he pit on the formation lap.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:04 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:00 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:37 pm
.

So, there has been plenty of time for people to look up the regs, has anyone found a regulation that allows the stewards to extend the red flag period to allow car repairs, as opposed for essential safety works on track ?

Strange how everyone is o.k. with the stewards making up new regulations on the hoof.

.
Plenty of time for you too, Greenman. What have you come up with?
Plus, perhaps it was all for safety work. Not simply clearing the circuit but allowing teams to ensure the cars they were sending back out were all safe. I have no problem and I'd rather have a longer red flag and more cars in the race, than a shorter red flag and fewer cars.
.

Perhaps, maybe, any evidence ?

.
None, because I am a fan of the sport and don't work for the FIA. That said, safety is safety and that is far far more than the circuit. It would be different in situations where something like a drain cover comes loose and cars are red-flagged without damage. There was clearly a number of cars which suffered serious damage and giving them time to make them safe seems completely sensible. Who really suffered because of this? The sport didn't.
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Badgeronimous
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Badgeronimous »

In the old days it would be red flagged, restarted -1 lap and have drivers running for the T-Cars

breathemyexhaust
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by breathemyexhaust »

Sainz is the first to get called in to the stewards for formation lap communication:https://twitter.com/robwattsf1/status/1 ... 6741711873

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:51 pm
F1_Ernie wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:45 pm
"As soon as we can pit it's gonna be good to do so"
"So you can come in at the end of this lap if you want to, let us know"
"Well I guess I'm second, so, not really, what do you think, completely dry"
"Standby, standing start, I'll get back to you shortly"
"Okay Esteban, Box box box box"
"Copy"

Ocon told to pit
Yeah that should be a slam dunk.
magnussen got given a penalty that effected his result after he had finished in hungary 2020. Ocon getting a penalty for this wouldn't be unrealistic. Will just be a time penalty if it goes ahead. But it does seem too late.

Greenman
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Greenman »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:04 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:00 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:37 pm
.

So, there has been plenty of time for people to look up the regs, has anyone found a regulation that allows the stewards to extend the red flag period to allow car repairs, as opposed for essential safety works on track ?

Strange how everyone is o.k. with the stewards making up new regulations on the hoof.

.
Plenty of time for you too, Greenman. What have you come up with?
Plus, perhaps it was all for safety work. Not simply clearing the circuit but allowing teams to ensure the cars they were sending back out were all safe. I have no problem and I'd rather have a longer red flag and more cars in the race, than a shorter red flag and fewer cars.
.

Perhaps, maybe, any evidence ?

.
None, because I am a fan of the sport and don't work for the FIA. That said, safety is safety and that is far far more than the circuit. It would be different in situations where something like a drain cover comes loose and cars are red-flagged without damage. There was clearly a number of cars which suffered serious damage and giving them time to make them safe seems completely sensible. Who really suffered because of this? The sport didn't.
.

NOTHING in the regs to allow for cars to be repaired - the stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.

mikeyg123
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:15 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:04 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:00 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Plenty of time for you too, Greenman. What have you come up with?
Plus, perhaps it was all for safety work. Not simply clearing the circuit but allowing teams to ensure the cars they were sending back out were all safe. I have no problem and I'd rather have a longer red flag and more cars in the race, than a shorter red flag and fewer cars.
.

Perhaps, maybe, any evidence ?

.
None, because I am a fan of the sport and don't work for the FIA. That said, safety is safety and that is far far more than the circuit. It would be different in situations where something like a drain cover comes loose and cars are red-flagged without damage. There was clearly a number of cars which suffered serious damage and giving them time to make them safe seems completely sensible. Who really suffered because of this? The sport didn't.
.

NOTHING in the regs to allow for cars to be repaired - the stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
You're allowed to work on the car during a red flag.

The Stewards don't decide when to lift a red flag.

IDFD
Posts: 434
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by IDFD »

Isn't there always a 15 minute warning before the race restarts anyway?

So even if it was cleared in 30 seconds we'd still have the 15 minute warning?

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:15 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:04 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:00 pm
Fiki wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:40 pm
Plenty of time for you too, Greenman. What have you come up with?
Plus, perhaps it was all for safety work. Not simply clearing the circuit but allowing teams to ensure the cars they were sending back out were all safe. I have no problem and I'd rather have a longer red flag and more cars in the race, than a shorter red flag and fewer cars.
.

Perhaps, maybe, any evidence ?

.
None, because I am a fan of the sport and don't work for the FIA. That said, safety is safety and that is far far more than the circuit. It would be different in situations where something like a drain cover comes loose and cars are red-flagged without damage. There was clearly a number of cars which suffered serious damage and giving them time to make them safe seems completely sensible. Who really suffered because of this? The sport didn't.
.

NOTHING in the regs to allow for cars to be repaired - the stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
Using block capitals doesn't alter the fact that repairs absolutely are allowed during red flag stoppages.
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F1Tyrant
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

breathemyexhaust wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:13 pm
Sainz is the first to get called in to the stewards for formation lap communication
Ocon and Vettel too!
Last edited by F1Tyrant on Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

IDFD wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:19 pm
Isn't there always a 15 minute warning before the race restarts anyway?

So even if it was cleared in 30 seconds we'd still have the 15 minute warning?
Yes. F1 cars can't simply be restarted when required. Teams are given time to ensure all the fluids are set and up to temperature before firing the engines. Without this, engines and gearboxes would implode. They are always given plenty of time.
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Greenman
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Greenman »

.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
It's those block capitals again!
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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Vettel, Bottas, Sainz and Stroll reprimanded for wearing the wrong t-shirt :D :D

If any of them already had 2 reprimands, it would be hilarious if a t-shirt earned them a grid drop....


What a stupid outcome...

mikeyg123
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
Stewards don't decide when the red flag comes in.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:25 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
It's those block capitals again!
Are you SURE about that? :lol:

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:29 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:25 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
It's those block capitals again!
Are you SURE about that? :lol:

YES I AM!
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Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:27 pm
Vettel, Bottas, Sainz and Stroll reprimanded for wearing the wrong t-shirt :D :D

If any of them already had 2 reprimands, it would be hilarious if a t-shirt earned them a grid drop....


What a stupid outcome...
:thumbup:

Plus, it shows how important FIA thinks that matters of equal rights actually are: less important than their stupid overregulated procedures. :thumbdown:

Hail to Vettel and co!

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:35 pm
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:27 pm
Vettel, Bottas, Sainz and Stroll reprimanded for wearing the wrong t-shirt :D :D

If any of them already had 2 reprimands, it would be hilarious if a t-shirt earned them a grid drop....


What a stupid outcome...
:thumbup:

Plus, it shows how important FIA thinks that matters of equal rights actually are: less important than their stupid overregulated procedures. :thumbdown:

Hail to Vettel and co!
Who knows what will be done in Saudi Arabia!
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Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
Is there a regulation that states that Red Flag periods end when the circuit is ready again and that car repair requirements are ignored? Genuine question.
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Badgeronimous
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Badgeronimous »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:38 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
Is there a regulation twhat states that Red Flag periods end when the circuit is ready again and that car repair requirements are ignored? Genuine question.
I always remember, in 30yrs watching, red flags being - at a minimum - 15 to 20 mins.

I think it is sensible after an accident like that where multiple cars took knocks and ran over debris, to allow ample time to inspect or repair cars on safety grounds. Wouldn't be a good look if they rushed to restart and - for example - sombodies suspension broke after half a lap.

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

What exactly is the regulation for defining the period where no driver assistance is allowed (and I mean, a reference to the actual regulation with a quote and the rule number, not what people 'think' it is)

Because the formation lap at the start of the race is different to the formation lap after a red flag. The circumstances are different so unless the regulation explicitly states it applies to all formation laps then it would be the case that radio messages on post red flag formation laps would be fine.

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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

This would be gutting for him.
Chris Medland
@ChrisMedlandF1

BREAKING: Vettel likely to lose second place as one litre of fuel was not available in his car at the end of the race
Only 0.3l was there.

Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Clarky wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm
This would be gutting for him.
Chris Medland
@ChrisMedlandF1

BREAKING: Vettel likely to lose second place as one litre of fuel was not available in his car at the end of the race
Only 0.3l was there.
Oh, dear. They're normally pretty strict on this.
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Asphalt_World
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Badgeronimous wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:44 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:38 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
Is there a regulation twhat states that Red Flag periods end when the circuit is ready again and that car repair requirements are ignored? Genuine question.
I always remember, in 30yrs watching, red flags being - at a minimum - 15 to 20 mins.

I think it is sensible after an accident like that where multiple cars took knocks and ran over debris, to allow ample time to inspect or repair cars on safety grounds. Wouldn't be a good look if they rushed to restart and - for example - sombodies suspension broke after half a lap.
I agree.
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Clarky
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Clarky »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:09 pm
Clarky wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm
This would be gutting for him.
Chris Medland
@ChrisMedlandF1

BREAKING: Vettel likely to lose second place as one litre of fuel was not available in his car at the end of the race
Only 0.3l was there.
Oh, dear. They're normally pretty strict on this.
If guilty it would be a disqualification

wire2004
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wire2004 »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:09 pm
Badgeronimous wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:44 pm
Asphalt_World wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:38 pm
Greenman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:23 pm
.

NOTHING in the regs to extend the Red Flag period to allow further repairs to cars - again, the Stewards seem to have invented a new regulation.

.
Is there a regulation twhat states that Red Flag periods end when the circuit is ready again and that car repair requirements are ignored? Genuine question.
I always remember, in 30yrs watching, red flags being - at a minimum - 15 to 20 mins.

I think it is sensible after an accident like that where multiple cars took knocks and ran over debris, to allow ample time to inspect or repair cars on safety grounds. Wouldn't be a good look if they rushed to restart and - for example - sombodies suspension broke after half a lap.
I agree.
If the car is not safe. Dont restart and retire the car. It's as simple as that. It's been the same for the history of formula 1.

To be fair. Indont know why the red flag came out in the first place. I've seen worse and the safety car has been utilised for 4 or 5 laps to clean the mess up and got back racing much quicker than we did today. .

BMWSauber84
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by BMWSauber84 »

Chris Medland also reporting that one other car has breached fuel regulations. Not sure who yet.

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Invade
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Invade »

BMWSauber84 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:17 pm
Chris Medland also reporting that one other car has breached fuel regulations. Not sure who yet.
I did say that I can't wait to find out how Russell will fail to score points today.

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F1Tyrant
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Invade wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:19 pm
I did say that I can't wait to find out how Russell will fail to score points today.
Someone is going to be crying again...
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IDFD
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by IDFD »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:46 pm
What exactly is the regulation for defining the period where no driver assistance is allowed (and I mean, a reference to the actual regulation with a quote and the rule number, not what people 'think' it is)

Because the formation lap at the start of the race is different to the formation lap after a red flag. The circumstances are different so unless the regulation explicitly states it applies to all formation laps then it would be the case that radio messages on post red flag formation laps would be fine.
Being said that a red flag formation lap restart isn't the same as a formation lap and you are allowed radio Comms throughout.

Obviously some teams knew this and others didn't as there are some engineers that said remember I can't say anything to advise you during the red flag formation lap.

wolfticket
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wolfticket »

IDFD wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:39 pm
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:46 pm
What exactly is the regulation for defining the period where no driver assistance is allowed (and I mean, a reference to the actual regulation with a quote and the rule number, not what people 'think' it is)

Because the formation lap at the start of the race is different to the formation lap after a red flag. The circumstances are different so unless the regulation explicitly states it applies to all formation laps then it would be the case that radio messages on post red flag formation laps would be fine.
Being said that a red flag formation lap restart isn't the same as a formation lap and you are allowed radio Comms throughout.

Obviously some teams knew this and others didn't as there are some engineers that said remember I can't say anything to advise you during the red flag formation lap.
This is what I assumed given that you'd expect there to be at least some communication in order that everyone barring Hamilton would know to pit.
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===

JN23
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

@wire2004 and anyone else who asked this earlier on:

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/08/ ... zero-cars/

The grid procedure would have taken place as normal, five red lights go out, and then the pit lane light goes green and the cars leave the pits.

wire2004
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wire2004 »

JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:23 pm
@wire2004 and anyone else who asked this earlier on:

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/08/ ... zero-cars/

The grid procedure would have taken place as normal, five red lights go out, and then the pit lane light goes green and the cars leave the pits.
Surely we need to have a look at the restart procedure if we ended up.in this situation. It would make a mockery of the sport. Watching a car on the grid or zero cars on the grid with 5 red lights going off. Today was a novelty as it was the first time such a thing has happened. If it happens again. It becomes a mockery to the sport as I mentioned above. Maybe have the pit lane closed during the formation lap or as I mentioned earlier. Abort the restart. Make them reform the grid in the positions they were in prior to the cars entering the pit lane. With the correct positions. And then take the start.

Or here is a novel idea. Stop tinkering with things for entertainment and just restart the race with a rolling restart as it had always been in the past.
Last edited by wire2004 on Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JN23
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

wire2004 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:30 pm
JN23 wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:23 pm
@wire2004 and anyone else who asked this earlier on:

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2021/08/ ... zero-cars/

The grid procedure would have taken place as normal, five red lights go out, and then the pit lane light goes green and the cars leave the pits.
Surely we need to have a look at the restart procedure if we ended up.in this situation. It would make a mockery of the sport. Watching a car on the grid or zero cars on the grid with 5 red lights going off. Maybe have the pit lane closed during the formation lap or as I mentioned earlier. Abort the restart. Make them reform the grid in the positions they were in prior to the cars entering the pit lane. With the correct positions. And then take the start.

Or here is a novel idea. Stop tinkering with things for entertainment and just restart the race with a rolling restart as it had always been in the past.
Yeah I'd be happy with any of those options. I'd say scrap the standing restart personally, it's pure entertainment then.

JN23
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:05 pm
Ted Kravitz said teams cant tell the driver to box and it's basically upto the driver. Also said Mercedes believe Hamilton would have come out between 8th and 10th if he pit on the formation lap.
On this, it means that being first in the pit lane is a disadvantage. What are the advantages to being first in the pit lane?

If pit lane positioning is based on where you finish in the championship, would it make more sense for the champions to be last? There was talk of being first in the pit lane in France being a slight disadvantage as well.

I don't really have a view either way and don't care too much but wondering what people thought, and what the advantages of being first are.

JN23
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Re: 2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by JN23 »

Everyone passed post-race scrutineering (including Williams), apart from Vettel and his fuel sample

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