The Official Formula E Thread

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DOLOMITE
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The Official Formula E Thread

Post by DOLOMITE »

If there is an official thread I couldn't find it. Happy to make this it if not.

So Formula E.... I can't get into it. Not really sure exactly why. I tried it early on and and have dipped back in since but it just never grabs me.

So why? Cars look great and there's some top driver talent.

Having looked at some comments I think it may come down to the car/circuit combinations.

Feels like they run at often tight street circuits where the cars look quick due to the close proximity of the barriers but there is a lot of incidents and the whole set up looks a bit like slot cars. But if they go to a more open and flowing circuit the cars look slow and out of place.
Someone also pointed out that most accidents "lack drama". The cars just seems to clatter to a halt. Been a few exceptions but I can see what was meant.

I want it to work, but for me it just doesn't have any appeal over F2/F3 both of which I'm really enjoying this year.

So what are your thoughts - if you like it , what do you like about it , and if not, why not?
Last edited by DOLOMITE on Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

I've watched the series since the start (even attended the first Battersea race) and I feel like I'm really falling out of love with it this season. In general I haven't particularly enjoyed the races this season, and while I don't think there has ever been a season where I could say I enjoyed every race, the current season seems to have had a lot of forgettable races. And honestly, I'm growing a bit tired of the controversies they seem to have almost every other race. di Grassi this weekend; Wehrlein in Mexico; the farce that was Valencia (and the fact that it was very nearly repeated at the next race, where a couple of seconds quicker and there would've been an extra lap and the same problem); Vandoorne losing a pole. And that's to name just a few and ignore the various DSQs, stewarding inconsistencies, etc.

Maybe all were completely justified penalties according to the letter of the law, but the way they're handled always seems amateur hour when it comes to FE. And Valencia was just a complete joke. It leaves a bitter taste when you're watching something and want to see it succeed, only to see it keep shooting itself in the foot. Attack mode is starting to wear thin and the increasingly desperate attempts to place it at a part of the track designed to create the most chaos on the blend is pretty meh, and the less said about the quali format the better. Maybe for some people going into the final two races of the season in a situation where the guy *16th* in the standings could, theoretically, still win the title with two very good results could be considered exciting, but it just feels like such a lottery, one that doesn't reward performance but actually punishes it.

Basically, I've a lot of negativity towards FE at the moment, and while I'm perhaps not ready to give up on it quite yet, I don't think I'm too far away from that changing.
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Re: Formula E

Post by mikeyg123 »

I've watched FE from the start but this has been the toughest season to enjoy and I did kind of give up a few races ago but came back to watch London.

It just feels more like an exercise in correctly negotiating procedural bureaucracy than racing. One tiny error by the team receives a penalty so severe it may as well be a DSQ. Or they'll red flag with 25% of the race to go a heavily penalise drivers who haven't yet taken attack mode.

Stuff like that just makes no sense. The race results so rarely reflect what actually happens out on track there is almost no point in watching.

I think this has bled over onto the drivers themselves. They have stopped taking it seriously. It's just a jolly up between rounds of WEC or DTM for them. The drivers still have good resumes but the standard of driving is often appalling.

It seems odd to me that a series attempting to promote electric vehicles basses their entire formula around red tape and range anxiety. You'd think they'd do the opposite.

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Re: Formula E

Post by pokerman »

I thought this thread was started because of the shenanigans last time out, Audi are pulling out of the series and then basically crapped all over it.

I often forget to watch the races but managed to catch the last race, probably helped because there was no F1 or MotoGP on at the weekend to preoccupy me.

Vandoorne was leading the race going into the latter laps when a SC was called, di Grassi was running somewhere in the midfield but the Audi team realised that if he made a pitstop they would be able to jump the field, I think a combination of the cars going so slowly and the pitlane being a bit of a short cut. di Grassi then has the lead of the race for the SC restart, the stewards dumbfounded, surely di Grassi broke a rule but what rule did he actually break.

Anyway di Grassi leads the race defending against Vandoorne on the inside into a hairpin corner when Rowland locks up hits Vandoorne and takes him out of the race, at this point I could watch no more, farce would be an understatement.

I did put it back on out of curiosity to see what the final outcome was, luckily the stewards found a rule that di Grassi broke when he came in for his pitstop, which by the way was just a stop and go, nothing wrong with his car, a preplanned decision to jump the field under a SC, but di Grassi didn't come to a complete stop hence the stewards to their relief found something to penalise him for.

I'm a bit sketchy after that what happened, I think they might have given him a stop/go penalty which he ignored so they then black flagged him which I think he also ignored, anyway he somehow finished 8th probably close to the position he was running anyway before the SC, so really no penalty at all while the hapless Vandoorne who looked set for the win gets crashed out of the race being bottled up behind di Grassi, not exactly the future of the sport.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Exediron »

The last race was a bit of a farce, but that's Audi's fault and little to do with the series.

What's frustrated me this season is just how random the results of any given race feel. They've finally got their wish with the qualifying format -- every race, we see the championship contenders starting somewhere near the back, because they got sent out in the Suicide Group (a.k.a Group 1) and had track conditions that were two seconds off the final pace.

It just really undermines the credibility of a world championship when qualifying is basically random grid spots every week. And this is coming from someone who has watched every Formula E race since the start and believes in the concept.
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Re: Formula E

Post by FrogInARaceCar »

I enjoy it when it's on but only catch maybe half the races. The races take a bit of getting used to but the drama is there, I just wish they'd get the rules sorted out. DSQing cars for failing to attack mode when the race is red flagged just can't be right, and the loophole that led to the shenanigans in London was known in advance, just not fixed.
Dolomite wrote:Feels like they run at often tight street circuits where the cars look quick due to the close proximity of the barriers but there is a lot of incidents and the whole set up looks a bit like slot cars. But if they go to a more open and flowing circuit the cars look slow and out of place.
The street circuits with ridiculous chicanes are kinda necessary to make the tech work. The brakes chuck energy back into the battery, so you want as many heavy braking zones as possible, while sweepers and long straights are bad news. That's why they chopped off a bit of Ricardo Tormo and added the chicane on the straight.
pokerman wrote:'m a bit sketchy after that what happened, I think they might have given him a stop/go penalty which he ignored so they then black flagged him which I think he also ignored, anyway he somehow finished 8th probably close to the position he was running anyway before the SC, so really no penalty at all while the hapless Vandoorne who looked set for the win gets crashed out of the race being bottled up behind di Grassi, not exactly the future of the sport.
Yeah, they gave Di Grassi a drive-through, which his team didn't tell him about while the boss sprinted down the pitlane to argue with the stewards. He ended up with a DSQ in the final results, which seems correct. I was amazed that Audi thought they could get anywhere by arguing like that. Also, what I think everyone has missed is that Audi did the trick twice - Di Grassi went from 8th to 6th on lap 11, and 6th to 1st on lap 12.

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Re: Formula E

Post by Asphalt_World »

I understand things take time to build up, but I really feel they made a massive mistake by running races are a lot of truly dreadful circuits. They may race in amazing cities like Rome, but the circuits are normally stuck out away from the bit we all know and love and are instead in industrial-looking areas that could be anywhere in the world. The circuits are generally too tight to allow passing and are totally featureless.

The first season was blighted with mechanical/electrical problems too.

That said, despite the new car, which I don't personally think looks that good, I don't feel the sport has improved and feels like an electrical version of other single-seater series that have come and go over the years. I'm thinking of things like A1GP. Nice idea, but didn't catch the imagination of most.

I do tune in from time to time out of interest and the fact that I like to keep up to date with all sorts of motorsport, but it really isn't that good.
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Re: Formula E

Post by FrogInARaceCar »

"How many people is André Lotterer going to crash into today?" is a fun game.

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Re: Formula E

Post by DOLOMITE »

Interesting to read this as I didn't know there was so much going that was frustrating viewers and fans of the series. I hadn't got into it closely enough to pick up on all that. Sounds like the organisers have over-thought it and are trying too hard with format and gimmicks. I can see some of that with Extreme E - also done by Agag.

It's already been around longer than I thought it, but interesting to see Audi and BMW leaving - have they given reasons why?
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Re: Formula E

Post by Tufty »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:16 am
Interesting to read this as I didn't know there was so much going that was frustrating viewers and fans of the series. I hadn't got into it closely enough to pick up on all that. Sounds like the organisers have over-thought it and are trying too hard with format and gimmicks. I can see some of that with Extreme E - also done by Agag.

It's already been around longer than I thought it, but interesting to see Audi and BMW leaving - have they given reasons why?
At least one said it was down to how much they could realistically learn for the future of road car tech.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Tufty »

I do share a lot of the frustrations with FE that many others do. For one thing, the power overuse penalties. The cars are limited on how much power can be sent to the wheels at any given moment, but hitting a bump and taking off for a fraction of a second is deemed worthy of punishment, because the power load suddenly spikes, sending the car outside the technical regulations fleetingly. There's no malicious intent, and I doubt there's even the slightest benefit to doing it either. Common sense needs to be applied in future to this punishment. Personally I would do away with the maximum power level rule, but bring in a single engine map rule a la F1 instead. If you can run at 500KW for the duration of the race with the battery as it is, by all means go for it.

Battery capacity limits are a difficult one. On one hand, many are unhappy about this being an efficiency formula as it introduces an element of range anxiety. However, name me a formula that doesn't limit the fuel in some way? Even if not in the rules, teams will still try to stretch less fuel out over a longer stint to benefit from the lighter car. The energy in a battery doesn't come with the same weight penalty, but that's no reason we shouldn't also see power saving and regeneration being an element of the racing.

The big one for me is qualifying. There's no way that this is a fair system, and while it ensures a title showdown, it also works as an effective success penalty. And that is wrong. What we effectively have here is a demonstration of why, in a field of closely matched cars, reverse grids don't work. And yet we have them sneakily forced on us.
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Re: Formula E

Post by mikeyg123 »

Tufty wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:42 am
I do share a lot of the frustrations with FE that many others do. For one thing, the power overuse penalties. The cars are limited on how much power can be sent to the wheels at any given moment, but hitting a bump and taking off for a fraction of a second is deemed worthy of punishment, because the power load suddenly spikes, sending the car outside the technical regulations fleetingly. There's no malicious intent, and I doubt there's even the slightest benefit to doing it either. Common sense needs to be applied in future to this punishment. Personally I would do away with the maximum power level rule, but bring in a single engine map rule a la F1 instead. If you can run at 500KW for the duration of the race with the battery as it is, by all means go for it.

Battery capacity limits are a difficult one. On one hand, many are unhappy about this being an efficiency formula as it introduces an element of range anxiety. However, name me a formula that doesn't limit the fuel in some way? Even if not in the rules, teams will still try to stretch less fuel out over a longer stint to benefit from the lighter car. The energy in a battery doesn't come with the same weight penalty, but that's no reason we shouldn't also see power saving and regeneration being an element of the racing.

The big one for me is qualifying. There's no way that this is a fair system, and while it ensures a title showdown, it also works as an effective success penalty. And that is wrong. What we effectively have here is a demonstration of why, in a field of closely matched cars, reverse grids don't work. And yet we have them sneakily forced on us.
The difference in FE is that battery saving is an artificial element introduced. See how they artificially reduced the energy allowed to be used if there is a safety car.... Reduced so aggressively in Valencia that half the field found it impossible to finish. The equivalent in F1 would be a late safety car and then telling the teams they can only use 5 laps worth of fuel for the remaining 10 laps despite the fact that the car currently has 15 laps of fuel on board.

I don't them using energy saving as a strategy to spice up the race but it doesn't it seem very strange that a series attempting to promote electric cars would use people's biggest objection to buying an electric car as the cornerstone of it's strategy?

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Re: Formula E

Post by DOLOMITE »

Wow. Seems like the format, the regs, the tech, the gimmicks are the deciding factors in who wins... where does driver skill come in? Seems more about decision making and working out to work around the rules.

This certainly hasn't made me want to give it another go!

I'm still curious as to why it doesn't seem as appealing even before all the above. My 11 year old son got into F1 last year and is now following F2 and F3 closely when all I did was let him watch a race to see of he enjoyed it. He loves it - knows the teams, the drivers, which drivers have links to F1 teams etc. I showed him a Formula E race and....nothing. Just didn't excite him.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Asphalt_World »

Whilst I am seriously impressed with the performance electric engines can give cars, both on track and on the road, I still think that the noise combustion engines make has a larger appeal than perhaps people gave it credit for. For me, the sound of motorsport has always been important and I truly believe that for a lot, even perhaps at a subconscious level, it makes a difference to the enjoyment of the sport. Blimey, even the current F1 engines, despite being pretty loud, do not sound as good as they used to and have caused so much of an issue that the teams and regulators are attempting to sort this out for the better. If the sound went altogether to the level of electric cars, it would change F1 significantly.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Battle Far »

For me, the whole logic of 'racing' battery powered cars is backwards.

Anybody watching California traffic knows that electric car owners compete to see how little energy they can use to get where they want to go, not how fast they can get there...

"Hypermiling" is the way to get the EV owning public involved :-P ;) :nod:

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Re: Formula E

Post by Asphalt_World »

Battle Far wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:58 pm
For me, the whole logic of 'racing' battery powered cars is backwards.

Anybody watching California traffic knows that electric car owners compete to see how little energy they can use to get where they want to go, not how fast they can get there...

"Hypermiling" is the way to get the EV owning public involved :-P ;) :nod:
That's true, but then again hypermiling has existed for years with diesel and petrol car owners. I guess that once electric cars have a much bigger range and charge fully in something like 15 minutes or less, the novelty of getting them to go further and further on a single charge will disappear for most and it will all be about speed.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:02 am
Tufty wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:42 am
I do share a lot of the frustrations with FE that many others do. For one thing, the power overuse penalties. The cars are limited on how much power can be sent to the wheels at any given moment, but hitting a bump and taking off for a fraction of a second is deemed worthy of punishment, because the power load suddenly spikes, sending the car outside the technical regulations fleetingly. There's no malicious intent, and I doubt there's even the slightest benefit to doing it either. Common sense needs to be applied in future to this punishment. Personally I would do away with the maximum power level rule, but bring in a single engine map rule a la F1 instead. If you can run at 500KW for the duration of the race with the battery as it is, by all means go for it.

Battery capacity limits are a difficult one. On one hand, many are unhappy about this being an efficiency formula as it introduces an element of range anxiety. However, name me a formula that doesn't limit the fuel in some way? Even if not in the rules, teams will still try to stretch less fuel out over a longer stint to benefit from the lighter car. The energy in a battery doesn't come with the same weight penalty, but that's no reason we shouldn't also see power saving and regeneration being an element of the racing.

The big one for me is qualifying. There's no way that this is a fair system, and while it ensures a title showdown, it also works as an effective success penalty. And that is wrong. What we effectively have here is a demonstration of why, in a field of closely matched cars, reverse grids don't work. And yet we have them sneakily forced on us.
The difference in FE is that battery saving is an artificial element introduced. See how they artificially reduced the energy allowed to be used if there is a safety car.... Reduced so aggressively in Valencia that half the field found it impossible to finish. The equivalent in F1 would be a late safety car and then telling the teams they can only use 5 laps worth of fuel for the remaining 10 laps despite the fact that the car currently has 15 laps of fuel on board.

I don't them using energy saving as a strategy to spice up the race but it doesn't it seem very strange that a series attempting to promote electric cars would use people's biggest objection to buying an electric car as the cornerstone of it's strategy?
I fully agree with the last paragraph. They need to be less ideological with their energy-saving focus. They are also overdoing it with the qualifying format. Become a little less extreme in these areas and the series is fine for me.

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Re: Formula E

Post by JN23 »

Not an Formula E watcher really, so please can someone explain the qualifying format?

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Re: Formula E

Post by DOLOMITE »

Looking closer, the standing do make for , er, interesting reading. After 7 events/14 races, the leader de Vries has 4 retirements, 3 finishes outside the top 10 and 2 wins. You wouldn't expect a scorecard like that to be leading the championship. Frijns in 2nd hasn't won a race yet. 10 different winners and 4 of them aren't even in the top 10.

Something not right there...
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Re: Formula E

Post by Exediron »

JN23 wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:44 pm
Not an Formula E watcher really, so please can someone explain the qualifying format?
Drivers are divided into a number of groups, in order of current championship standing. Those groups go out and qualify sequentially on track, so the first six drivers in championship order qualify first, then the next six, etc. Every driver gets a single lap at full power to qualify.

After everyone has set a time, the fastest six drivers then get to set an additional time each, determining their final positions from 1st to 6th on the grid.

The issue is that Formula E races on street circuits and temporary arenas, and track evolution is almost always extreme. The drivers who go out in the first group almost invariably are unable to set competitive times, which leads to the current championship leaders starting towards the back of the field every race.

This is by design. The format is supposed to prevent any driver or team from running away with the championship, and it works.
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Re: Formula E

Post by JN23 »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:56 am
JN23 wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:44 pm
Not an Formula E watcher really, so please can someone explain the qualifying format?
Drivers are divided into a number of groups, in order of current championship standing. Those groups go out and qualify sequentially on track, so the first six drivers in championship order qualify first, then the next six, etc. Every driver gets a single lap at full power to qualify.

After everyone has set a time, the fastest six drivers then get to set an additional time each, determining their final positions from 1st to 6th on the grid.

The issue is that Formula E races on street circuits and temporary arenas, and track evolution is almost always extreme. The drivers who go out in the first group almost invariably are unable to set competitive times, which leads to the current championship leaders starting towards the back of the field every race.

This is by design. The format is supposed to prevent any driver or team from running away with the championship, and it works.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Option or Prime »

Exediron wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:56 am
JN23 wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:44 pm
Not an Formula E watcher really, so please can someone explain the qualifying format?
Drivers are divided into a number of groups, in order of current championship standing. Those groups go out and qualify sequentially on track, so the first six drivers in championship order qualify first, then the next six, etc. Every driver gets a single lap at full power to qualify.

After everyone has set a time, the fastest six drivers then get to set an additional time each, determining their final positions from 1st to 6th on the grid.

The issue is that Formula E races on street circuits and temporary arenas, and track evolution is almost always extreme. The drivers who go out in the first group almost invariably are unable to set competitive times, which leads to the current championship leaders starting towards the back of the field every race.

This is by design. The format is supposed to prevent any driver or team from running away with the championship, and it works.
Thats really clear, I've watched it. several times and enjoyed the racing but didn't realise the last sentence, cheers.

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Re: Formula E

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:20 am
Looking closer, the standing do make for , er, interesting reading. After 7 events/14 races, the leader de Vries has 4 retirements, 3 finishes outside the top 10 and 2 wins. You wouldn't expect a scorecard like that to be leading the championship. Frijns in 2nd hasn't won a race yet. 10 different winners and 4 of them aren't even in the top 10.

Something not right there...
No it's exactly how they want it, a complete lottery, they don't want anyone to dominate it might damage viewing figures.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Tufty »

Even FE themselves have said they're considering a qualifying change, so maybe there will be a better future at least.

I still detest Fanboost though.
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Re: Formula E

Post by pokerman »

Tufty wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:33 am
Even FE themselves have said they're considering a qualifying change, so maybe there will be a better future at least.

I still detest Fanboost though.
Hopefully that would make things fairer and then I would watch it, Usain Bolt wasn't made to run in lead boots just because he was faster than everyone else.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Remmirath »

Tufty wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:33 am
Even FE themselves have said they're considering a qualifying change, so maybe there will be a better future at least.

I still detest Fanboost though.
A different qualifying format would definitely help. As would getting rid of Fanboost, but it doesn't look likely they'll do that...

The overall quality of the racing has definitely gone up since the earlier seasons, though. Massive crashes on the first lap are no longer a guarantee, and often the majority of a race is relatively clean. While some of the penalties are draconian, I do appreciate that they are applied evenly to all.

I also like that they've introduced a couple of actual tracks to the calendar, even if they're still using truncated versions. The typical Formula E street circuit layout gets rather old. Hopefully there will be more tracks used in the future.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Tufty »

I think introducing Monaco was the critical one this year. Detractors can say whatever they want about the issues FE has faced this year, but it's undeniable they gave us the most action-packed race we've seen at Monaco since F1 did in... 2008? 1996? Definitely the best dry race in my lifetime.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Asphalt_World »

Tufty wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am
I think introducing Monaco was the critical one this year. Detractors can say whatever they want about the issues FE has faced this year, but it's undeniable they gave us the most action-packed race we've seen at Monaco since F1 did in... 2008? 1996? Definitely the best dry race in my lifetime.
It's not that simple though. F2 and F3 regularly produce more action than you get in F1 and this is pretty much all year on the same weekends at the same circuits.
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Re: Formula E

Post by Badgeronimous »

I tried to like Formula E, but I just can't.

Cars look clumsy around the toy tracks they usually race on and the racing often is clumsy as a result. As a series it just seems to lack drama, or X factor.

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Re: Formula E

Post by Tufty »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:00 pm
Tufty wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am
I think introducing Monaco was the critical one this year. Detractors can say whatever they want about the issues FE has faced this year, but it's undeniable they gave us the most action-packed race we've seen at Monaco since F1 did in... 2008? 1996? Definitely the best dry race in my lifetime.
It's not that simple though. F2 and F3 regularly produce more action than you get in F1 and this is pretty much all year on the same weekends at the same circuits.
True. The mixed up grids in all 3 series likely contribute to that too. Although car size is also a major factor, I'd argue.
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minchy
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Re: Formula E

Post by minchy »

Regardless of any of formula e's issues, I enjoy most of the races (although London this year was awful!) and I really liked that they finished the season off with a championship podium after the race podium.
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pokerman
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by pokerman »

I hear that Mercedes along with Audi are pulling out so I'm not sure what that says for the series, however the team is still staying in the series with Toto Wolff taking over the ownership.
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DOLOMITE
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by DOLOMITE »

So Merc out because they feel F1 is more appropriate for developing electric tech. That can't have been expected and I don't think reflects well on the series.

I don't really understand it's position as a series if the focus is on private teams not manufacturers. How are privately funded teams ever going to have the resources or funding necessary to drive the tech forward? And what would be their incentive to do so anyway?

If more conventional series like BTCC for example start adopting electric, surely that's going to kill Formula E.

Had a great idea at the weekend. The Citroen 2CV series will start to struggle and as yet Citroen have not yet followed the idea of modernising a classic like we have seen with the Mini, Beetle and Fiat 500.

So Citroen to design a new all-electric 2CV called the 2EV and launch it with a manufacturer supported one make-series racing.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
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Battle Far
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by Battle Far »

Love it :-P

A match made in heaven, 2CVs are totally impracticable transport redeemed by light weight powered by totally practicable electric motors ruined by the ludicrous weight of batteries needed to make them go more than to the shops & back.

In case you didn't know, a Tesla long range battery pack weighs the same as three BMW 6 cylinder engine/gearbox combos. Plus a fuel tank.

Just as our descendants will look back at the internal combustion engine era with wry amusement (starting & stopping an exothermic chemical reaction thousands of times a minute in order to accelerate a lump of metal in one direction only to immediately slow it down it, stop it, and then accelerate it back in the oppositie direction all while wasting 60% of the energy generated as heat) so they will laugh at vehicles where the energy storage system weighs six times as much as the typical payload.

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DOLOMITE
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by DOLOMITE »

Battle Far wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:09 am

In case you didn't know, a Tesla long range battery pack weighs the same as three BMW 6 cylinder engine/gearbox combos. Plus a fuel tank.
I did not know that! Wow.
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss

pokerman
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by pokerman »

DOLOMITE wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:24 am
So Merc out because they feel F1 is more appropriate for developing electric tech. That can't have been expected and I don't think reflects well on the series.

I don't really understand it's position as a series if the focus is on private teams not manufacturers. How are privately funded teams ever going to have the resources or funding necessary to drive the tech forward? And what would be their incentive to do so anyway?

If more conventional series like BTCC for example start adopting electric, surely that's going to kill Formula E.

Had a great idea at the weekend. The Citroen 2CV series will start to struggle and as yet Citroen have not yet followed the idea of modernising a classic like we have seen with the Mini, Beetle and Fiat 500.

So Citroen to design a new all-electric 2CV called the 2EV and launch it with a manufacturer supported one make-series racing.
First of all I have little knowledge of the technical regs, but my understanding is that there are a lot of standard parts that have to be used so I'm wondering how is that looking to push the technology to its limits in a way that would interest the engine manufacturers.

For them was it merely a marketing exercise, look how concerned we are about green issues, also there was the dieselgate scandal which I believe affected more than one of the German manufacturers so let's get onboard with this for good PR.

When you look at FE is the main objective in developing the technology or just marketing electric cars by having close and unpredictable races that they hope will draw people in, for this the cars have to be close to equal (restrict development), and successful drivers get penalised in qualifying.
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mikeyg123
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:28 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:24 am
So Merc out because they feel F1 is more appropriate for developing electric tech. That can't have been expected and I don't think reflects well on the series.

I don't really understand it's position as a series if the focus is on private teams not manufacturers. How are privately funded teams ever going to have the resources or funding necessary to drive the tech forward? And what would be their incentive to do so anyway?

If more conventional series like BTCC for example start adopting electric, surely that's going to kill Formula E.

Had a great idea at the weekend. The Citroen 2CV series will start to struggle and as yet Citroen have not yet followed the idea of modernising a classic like we have seen with the Mini, Beetle and Fiat 500.

So Citroen to design a new all-electric 2CV called the 2EV and launch it with a manufacturer supported one make-series racing.
First of all I have little knowledge of the technical regs, but my understanding is that there are a lot of standard parts that have to be used so I'm wondering how is that looking to push the technology to its limits in a way that would interest the engine manufacturers.

For them was it merely a marketing exercise, look how concerned we are about green issues, also there was the dieselgate scandal which I believe affected more than one of the German manufacturers so let's get onboard with this for good PR.

When you look at FE is the main objective in developing the technology or just marketing electric cars by having close and unpredictable races that they hope will draw people in, for this the cars have to be close to equal (restrict development), and successful drivers get penalised in qualifying.
The main objective is to make the investors money.

pokerman
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:17 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:28 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:24 am
So Merc out because they feel F1 is more appropriate for developing electric tech. That can't have been expected and I don't think reflects well on the series.

I don't really understand it's position as a series if the focus is on private teams not manufacturers. How are privately funded teams ever going to have the resources or funding necessary to drive the tech forward? And what would be their incentive to do so anyway?

If more conventional series like BTCC for example start adopting electric, surely that's going to kill Formula E.

Had a great idea at the weekend. The Citroen 2CV series will start to struggle and as yet Citroen have not yet followed the idea of modernising a classic like we have seen with the Mini, Beetle and Fiat 500.

So Citroen to design a new all-electric 2CV called the 2EV and launch it with a manufacturer supported one make-series racing.
First of all I have little knowledge of the technical regs, but my understanding is that there are a lot of standard parts that have to be used so I'm wondering how is that looking to push the technology to its limits in a way that would interest the engine manufacturers.

For them was it merely a marketing exercise, look how concerned we are about green issues, also there was the dieselgate scandal which I believe affected more than one of the German manufacturers so let's get onboard with this for good PR.

When you look at FE is the main objective in developing the technology or just marketing electric cars by having close and unpredictable races that they hope will draw people in, for this the cars have to be close to equal (restrict development), and successful drivers get penalised in qualifying.
The main objective is to make the investors money.
So it's not actually about the technology.
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World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 99 (1st)
Pole Positions: 101 (1st)
Podiums: 175 (1st)


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mikeyg123
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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:54 pm
mikeyg123 wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:17 pm
pokerman wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:28 pm
DOLOMITE wrote:
Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:24 am
So Merc out because they feel F1 is more appropriate for developing electric tech. That can't have been expected and I don't think reflects well on the series.

I don't really understand it's position as a series if the focus is on private teams not manufacturers. How are privately funded teams ever going to have the resources or funding necessary to drive the tech forward? And what would be their incentive to do so anyway?

If more conventional series like BTCC for example start adopting electric, surely that's going to kill Formula E.

Had a great idea at the weekend. The Citroen 2CV series will start to struggle and as yet Citroen have not yet followed the idea of modernising a classic like we have seen with the Mini, Beetle and Fiat 500.

So Citroen to design a new all-electric 2CV called the 2EV and launch it with a manufacturer supported one make-series racing.
First of all I have little knowledge of the technical regs, but my understanding is that there are a lot of standard parts that have to be used so I'm wondering how is that looking to push the technology to its limits in a way that would interest the engine manufacturers.

For them was it merely a marketing exercise, look how concerned we are about green issues, also there was the dieselgate scandal which I believe affected more than one of the German manufacturers so let's get onboard with this for good PR.

When you look at FE is the main objective in developing the technology or just marketing electric cars by having close and unpredictable races that they hope will draw people in, for this the cars have to be close to equal (restrict development), and successful drivers get penalised in qualifying.
The main objective is to make the investors money.
So it's not actually about the technology.
No, it's not a charity is it? FE exists because some people thought they could make some money with an all electric racing series.

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Re: The Official Formula E Thread

Post by Asphalt_World »

Companies have a limited amount of money and when you look at the entries going into endurance racing with the new LMH and LMDh regulations, interest in FE could continue to shrink dramatically.
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