Was Kimi at the level of Alonso? Hakkatack's point about all those grid place penalties for KImi says it all. It was like playing snakes and ladders, with the KR/McLaren-Merc package getting all the snakes. Ruined the season for the whole field, bringing in that artificial/arbitrary rule/penalty ele...

Thanks WTkFox. Schumacher: top-rated all the way from mid-nineties to 2006, no break; he did so well in those undeveloped Ferraris of 1996-1998, like Alonso in the 2008-9 Renaults. Hope MSC is really back to the front in 2012. Brabham: I had many opportunities to watch Jack B in his pits at Kyalami:...

Since Michael Scumacher retired in 2006, imo Alonso has been the best driver overall. Because he drove off-pace cars for 2008,2009,2010,2011 and 2012 (!), he has not got the publicity that goes with multi-winners. Consequently he is not rated as highly as his great driving should be. If he had move...

Since Michael Scumacher retired in 2006, imo Alonso has been the best driver overall. Because he drove off-pace cars for 2008,2009,2010,2011 and 2012 (!), he has not got the publicity that goes with multi-winners. Consequently he is not rated as highly as his great driving should be. If he had moved...

For WTkFox: my list for the F1 years; this is off the OP's topic, for I have listed the best/fastest drivers of each decade, and not separated out natural talent. 1950 1959 Fangio, Ascari, Moss 1960 -1969 Moss, Surtees, Clark, Stewart 1970-1979 Stewart, Lauda, Andretti 1980-1989 G Villeneuve, Piquet...

WTkFox: thanks for the compliment, but I can't end any arguments about great drivers; there are many valid viewpoints. In any case my list of the best from 1950 has no surprises; some arguable perhaps, but none off -the-wall choices. I spent time typing up two lists , 1950 -2012 and 1894-1949, namin...

What happened to the old Forum? Why has the layout,etc changed? Why have so many of the original posters disappeared?

I probably missed the info when posted, so apologies; but am curious, and sad to lose so many additional old/knowledge posters.

Are the Moderators the same?

A really enjoyable topic and a good read! Good to get many different points of view. I agree with the OP and many posters that there is a distinction between 'naturally-talented' and other very good drivers. It is difficult to measure or be sure of, though. The Kimi and Peterson examples are those I...

I could not separate the top three:
1. Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton (but only if Lewis can get his out-of-car issues resolved and get back to his natural talent and speed)
2. Button
3. Raikkonen
4. Schumacher

Great analyses here, from Alienturnedhuman, AravJ, Gondo and other posters. I have expanded on the 'Dominance' theme and how the 2011 Vettel-Red Bull-Renault shapes compared with the best since 1950. Used a 50.0% win rate as the base for dominance, which is really very high: a win at every second ra...

I agree with you that qualifying should change. The current 'exciting hollywood shoot-out in three frenetic ,brief sessions is ridiculous. Seeing a ninth palce car with abetter time than others higher up the grid has been the result sometimes. All due to a mishap, mis-timing, traffic on the short se...

Imo Jenson has always been talented; he started well against the fast, under-rated Ralf Schumacher, came up against a then-fast Fisichella, and has improved all along and all-round. So many years in off-pace cars for BAR/Honda do not help driver motivation or confidence in the car. Once JB got the B...

Thanks to all posters for the huge amount of valuable info posted. The thread really has been so well analysed from all aspects. So interesting to learn of the Renault engine efficiency, lighter start weight, Newey's clean air design, which explains the ruthless way SV pushed Jenson B onto the grass...

Journalists and authors can spread information that might not be very accurate. Such well-known people as Gordon Murray dismissed the 1934-1937 V16 mid-engined Auto Unions as having got the mid-engined concept wrong, and reckoned the late-fifties Cooper-Climax was the first proper, succesful mid-eng...

There have been many comments about the Vettel/Red Bull-Renault performance superiority in 2011: that the RBR7 car is so dominant, that Sebastian has had an easy ride, has never had to 'race' in traffic, cannot overtake, etc. Firstly, Vettel can race and overtake, as we saw when he went onto the gra...

As Centauri says, Alonso is a driver who can make a difference. What he did in 2008-9 with the slow Renault was outstanding, just as were his perfromances for Ferrari in 2010-2011. Driver efforts are always under-rated when they are in off-pace cars; that is the real test of driver quality. As Lauda...

Red Bull and Newey have some way to go to equal the Williams-Renault car-technical record of superiority/dominance from 1991 to 1997; this has been unequalled in F1 or pre 1950 history. And Newey was a big part of that too. McLaren were very little slower than the Red Bull in 2011. Hope they, Ferrar...

The McLaren by far for 2012. Those stepped noses are hideous. Imo McLarens have always looked so good, talking about the shape, not necessarily the livery.