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KingVoid

Massa being close to Kimi in 2007, 2008 and 2009 told Ferrari that Kimi was not the driver they thought he was and they sacked him and replaced him with Alonso, he won the title in 2007 because he had the fastest car. I think on balance the cars were pretty similar, but I understand that not everyo...

KingVoid

It's much harder now than in the Schumacher era (provided the car stays reliable). Far more safety cars and red flags, qualifying that mixes up the order, grid penalties, general measures taken to spice up racing etc. If you look at Vettel’s 9 in a row, they were also very straight forward races. N...

KingVoid

It is no coincidence that 2 of the longest winning streaks came from 2 Red Bull drivers (Vettel and now Verstappen). The dominance of this team(operations, strategy, team dynamics, aerodynamics) is even superior to any kind of dominance Verstappen could have against any driver. I have watched long ...

KingVoid

Mansell and Berger were evenly matched in qualifying. Mansell and Prost were also evenly matched in qualifying (8-8 in 1990). Senna dominated both Prost and Berger. It all adds up, Senna was just innately half a second quicker than the Prost/Mansell/Berger trio over one lap. There is no need to over...

KingVoid

There is quite a lot I could say about all your comments above but I don't think there is any merit in me arguing with someone who thinks that the 1993 seasons was a "good battle throughout the season" and uses Ayrton Senna outscoring a rookie Damon Hill by 4 points as proof of that. We are just to...

KingVoid

It's typical for me to be against alonso, but I really don't see how he can be rated 1st in 2016. He made a massive misjudgement in the first race when he hit gutierrez, then missed out on the next race due to this which should also count against him. He also spun and heavily compromised his races ...

KingVoid

1. Verstappen 2023 This one is self explanatory, it’s the most dominant season of all time by a country mile with a car that didn’t have a particularly special advantage relative to dominant cars of the past. 2. Alonso 2012 The best season in F1 history with an inferior car. His job was definitely h...

KingVoid

Out of interest Mikey:- KingVoid 1. Schumacher 34 2. Hamilton 30 3. Alonso 28 4. Verstappen 17 Mikey 1. Schumacher 34 2. Alonso 27 3. Hamilton 27 4. Verstappen 17 I guess that Schumacher might have some more points for 1992 and 1993? I have him in third for 1992 (behind Mansell and Senna, in that o...

KingVoid

tootsie323 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:28 pm

KingVoid wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:50 am
Final Score:
:
Verstappen appears to be missing from this ranking - shouldn't he be 4th?

Please ignore my final score ranking, it’s littered with errors. I will count it again when I am more awake.

KingVoid

I have to say I'm a little surprised you've given Hamilton the win in 2020. I am feeling generous plus Max did mess up in Turkey so eh, you could make a case either way. I'm also curious as to your rationale for ranking 2010 as you have. Kubica had a great year but I'm more circumspect to you givin...

KingVoid

Final Score: 1. Michael Schumacher 9 wins, 2 silver, 3 bronze 33 points 2. Lewis Hamilton 6 wins, 4 silver, 4 bronze 30 points 3. Fernando Alonso 5 wins, 5 silver, 3 bronze 28 points 4. Sebastian Vettel 2 wins, 1 silver, 2 bronze 10 points 5. Mika Hakkinen 3 silver, 3 bronze 9 points 6. Robert Kubi...

KingVoid

I thought this would be an interesting off season topic and certainly one that can cause some debate. I will only be doing every season since 1994 as I view that as the beginning of a new era, with Prost retiring, Senna dying, and the rise of a new generation of drivers. This is entirely performance...

KingVoid

If Kubica was only a little bit better than Heidfeld, is it really fair to say that he was a better driver than the likes of Webber, or did he simply look better circumstantially? I find him very hard to judge. A Heidfeld level driver who had only 1 career win technically shouldn’t be rated that hig...

KingVoid

Percentage of winnable races won (difficulty would be assigning a value to 'winnable' races) modified by teammate quality (because losing winnable races to a fellow top driver is obviously much better than losing winnable races to a second-tier driver) The easy way of doing this would be to only lo...

KingVoid

I think that win percentage between the first and last win is in some ways, more accurate than just win percentage. It removes unfortunate drivers who spend a lot of time, either at the start or end of their careers in poor machinery. Alonso is by far the biggest victim of this, but some others like...

KingVoid

Having a 10 race minimum automatically removes silly outliers like Wallard and Vukovich.

One thing I find interesting is that Max is currently at 29.2% and Lewis is at 31.0%

At the current rate Max will almost certainly surpass Lewis very soon, unless we have a shock in the 2024 pecking order.

KingVoid

Massa.... I just don't rate Massa so perhaps I'm biased against him. His entire reputation is built on those 2.5 years with Kimi. Outside of that he was beaten by every teammate apart from a long past his best JV. That includes even a young Bottas. He doesn't have the WDC or the legacy of Kimi eith...

KingVoid

I have just realized that my previous list of top 40 drivers in the last 30 years had completely forgotten about Kovalainen, so I will do a quick redo of it. I have a few more changes to make as well, as I’ve thought about it for longer. 41. KOBAYASHI, Kamui 40. MAGNUSSEN, Kevin 39. GROSJEAN, Romain...

KingVoid

This is a fantastic effort but there are a few things I would change. Ascari > Stewart Vettel > Piquet and Brabham I always felt that Massa > Coulthard but again, this is only a minor issue. I would move Kubica up a bit, despite his very short career, he was arguably driver of the season in 2 out o...

KingVoid

3. VERSTAPPEN, Max 2. HAMILTON, Lewis Some posters I suspect will do a double take. Presumably KingVoid thinks that Verstappen is better than Hamilton on pure ability, but lags (significantly, as of yet) behind in achievement and legacy. Where to place the fulcrum on that particular balance is a ke...

KingVoid

I’ve done a “Top 40 from the last 30” list which is the 40 best drivers of the last 30 years, ranked accordingly. This list only takes into account everything a driver did after January 1st, 1994 because that essentially marks the end of the Senna/Prost/Mansell show. 40. KOBAYASHI, Kamui 39. MAGNUSS...

KingVoid

This is a fantastic effort but there are a few things I would change. Ascari > Stewart Vettel > Piquet and Brabham I always felt that Massa > Coulthard but again, this is only a minor issue. I would move Kubica up a bit, despite his very short career, he was arguably driver of the season in 2 out of...

KingVoid

For someone to dismiss Senna, Prost, Schumacher & Hamilton as "so called greats", while simultaneously refusing to entertain even the slightest hint that Verstappen might just not be the F1 messiah you think he is, & who maybe didn't just have the greatest season by any driver ever, demonstrates to...

KingVoid

But that last paragraph makes it pretty clear that you're not actually arguing from a neutral position. You're championing 'your driver' here, as you perceive everyone who argues against you to be doing. That's not the most intellectually honest approach itself. Bored of all the intellectual dishon...

KingVoid

I've also begrudgingly accepted that Verstappens a very, very good driver, though until he does what Vettel dared to do & leaves the safe & comfy environs of RB & gets out there to challenge himself, i'll never rate him up there with the Sennas, Prosts, Schumachers & Hamiltons of this world. Versta...

KingVoid

2018 qualifying analysis depends on what you want to show. You have 15-6, 21 sessions but in 8 sessions one of the drivers did not set a representative time. I would love to see how that 0.2% was calculated considering all the breakdowns in qualifying. Vertsappen was quicker than Ricciardo in 2018,...

KingVoid

Yeah I really don't think getting out qualified by Verstappen was the catalyst for Ricciardo leaving RB in 2018, after all he was leading Verstappen in the championship right up until Silverstone. Ricciardo was "leading" Verstappen in the championship; just like Sainz "lead" Leclerc in 2021 and mos...

KingVoid

I'm not convinced that Verstappen was 'the best' driver in 2019-20 although he clearly put himself up there and delivered, in that respect, in 2021 when he had the car to genuinely compete. In a funny way, Verstappen's 2022 and 2023 seasons confirmed to me beyond any reasonable doubt that he was th...

KingVoid

There were more overtakes in 2016 than 2022 despite one fewer race btw. I'd argue Hamilton lost more races to Rosberg and Bottas precisely because of the effect of dirty air. Verstappen blasting through the field and past Perez isn't because he's so much better than Hamilton was in a dominant car (...

KingVoid

So Verstappen became unstoppable when the team mate that was regularly his equal left the team... what a coincidence. You mean when a teammate, who got tonked 15-6 in qualifying in 2018, ran away from Max before his 21st birthday because he could see the writing on the wall? But no in 2019 and 2020...

KingVoid

F1Tyrant wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 04, 2023 6:42 pm

t2jd1967 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 04, 2023 6:11 pm
So he was really looking for an even more winning formula? Yes, now that makes total sense of course.
The 2022 formula plays to both Hamilton and Verstappen's strengths in a way the 2015-2021 didn't.

There were more overtakes in 2016 than 2022 despite one fewer race btw.

KingVoid

I've just provided 2 examples where Hamilton demonstrates otherwise. It’s easy to say all the right things in the media, anyone can talk the talk, that’s the easiest thing to do. When Red Bull actually asked Mercedes for engines and Mercedes had the opportunity for some real competition, they decid...

KingVoid

So Verstappen became unstoppable when the team mate that was regularly his equal left the team... what a coincidence. You mean when a teammate, who got tonked 15-6 in qualifying in 2018, ran away from Max before his 21st birthday because he could see the writing on the wall? But no in 2019 and 2020...

KingVoid

I'm sure if you asked Hamilton if he'd rather race with a closer field and regs that enable easier overtaking versus the era of his actual dominance with a wider field but very hard to overtake, he'd take the 2022 regs any day. Yes, with 7 WDCs under his belt I’m sure he would. Back when he was win...

KingVoid

I'm sure if you asked Hamilton if he'd rather race with a closer field and regs that enable easier overtaking versus the era of his actual dominance with a wider field but very hard to overtake, he'd take the 2022 regs any day. Yes, with 7 WDCs under his belt I’m sure he would. Back when he was win...

KingVoid

The lack of gap between the midfield and top cars is the reason why you see Perez get knocked out of Q2 so often and regularly off the podium. The reason was poor performance by Perez. The revisionists agenda is really becoming hilarious. :lol: Eh... it was the same with vettel 2010 - 2013 when he ...

KingVoid

Prior to the budget cap, the gulf in the quality between the big 3 teams and everyone else was so comically massive that from Silverstone 2015 (Massa) until Singapore 2019 (Giovinazzi), not a single driver outside of the big 3 teams even lead a lap. Think about that for a moment. That is 4.5 years ...

KingVoid

Montoya took a bunch of poles in 2002 too. Even Ferrari this year have a few poles, no? 6 poles in the last 10 races. The benefit of hindsight? Red Bull won 7 of the first 9 races that season. People liked to talk Ferrari up but they were only better than Red Bull in the first 3 races and then occa...

KingVoid

To talk up Verstappens would be my guess. The reason why I scoff at the notion that the RB19 has a bigger advantage than Mercedes cars of the past did is not because I feel some urge to talk up Verstappen, but because it’s not true. It really is that simple, none of the numbers support this opinion...

KingVoid

Montoya took a bunch of poles in 2002 too. Even Ferrari this year have a few poles, no? 6 poles in the last 10 races. The benefit of hindsight? Red Bull won 7 of the first 9 races that season. People liked to talk Ferrari up but they were only better than Red Bull in the first 3 races and then occa...

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