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tootsie323

pSo you hold racing finish more important than fairness. Fairness would also exclude the rules to be understood as RD have overriding authority. All fine if you dont want fairness, so you say RD does whatever he wants, and orchestrated a wrestling like circus at AD 21, and you liked it, and you fin...

tootsie323

... also there is no rule that drivers cant strangle each other in the pits, so you would also see it happening as perfectly vali and within the rules... I recall that someone also mentioned no rule that means, say, Leclerc can't be awarded 10000 points. As in life, there is an element of reason th...

tootsie323

... There is no such rule, because there is no requirement for selective unlapping. Which doesn't mean removing the lapped cars between the title contenders was not allowed. ... also there is no rule that drivers cant strangle each other in the pits, so you would also see it happening as perfectly ...

tootsie323

... There is no such rule, because there is no requirement for selective unlapping. Which doesn't mean removing the lapped cars between the title contenders was not allowed. ... also there is no rule that drivers cant strangle each other in the pits, so you would also see it happening as perfectly ...

tootsie323

can you point me to the point in the regulation which enables cherry picking cars to unlap ? I think this has been provided to you so many times now by more than one poster, that doing that one more time would be an exercise in futility. Your whole argument comes down to Masi one time said X, I rea...

tootsie323

... I don't know why going back to racing is somehow a manipulation of the race result. You call it that, but nobody told Hamilton to let Verstappen by. I've been watching F1, whenever I could, since the late 1960s, and nearly all the races since 1982. I've been told hundreds of times that Hamilton...

tootsie323

That passage talks about what the Clerk can and cannot do, and it explains RD has overriding authority over his decisions. "The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk o...

tootsie323

RD has no overriding authority, otherwise Masi wouldnt have said at 2020 Eifel GP, that he HAD to unlap all cars because the rule says so, and Mercedes' protest would have been thrown back just pointing at this, instead of making up new "interpretations" of the rules, and you wouldnt say 48.12 was ...

tootsie323

I'm going to throw my tuppence-worth in again: The safety car deployment itself was the primary factor in potentially changing the race outcome. Prior to that, Hamilton held a commanding lead which Verstappen was not eating into. The SC bunched the field and brought strategy into play. Merc opted f...

tootsie323

I'm going to throw my tuppence-worth in again: The safety car deployment itself was the primary factor in potentially changing the race outcome. Prior to that, Hamilton held a commanding lead which Verstappen was not eating into. The SC bunched the field and brought strategy into play. Merc opted f...

tootsie323

I'm going to throw my tuppence-worth in again: The safety car deployment itself was the primary factor in potentially changing the race outcome. Prior to that, Hamilton held a commanding lead which Verstappen was not eating into. The SC bunched the field and brought strategy into play. Merc opted fo...

tootsie323

As far as 'any' vs 'all' goes, the use of mandatory language makes a case for 'all' being the valid meaning. By stating that 'any cars that have been lapped by the leader are required to pass the cars on the lead lap' (48.12) the regulation is effectively saying that if you have been lapped you mus...

tootsie323

As far as 'any' vs 'all' goes, the use of mandatory language makes a case for 'all' being the valid meaning. By stating that 'any cars that have been lapped by the leader are required to pass the cars on the lead lap' (48.12) the regulation is effectively saying that if you have been lapped you must...

tootsie323

Apologies for this rather long-winded summary from reading through the stewards’ protest decision..! Mercedes argued that: … had [article 48.12] been complied with, Car 44 would have won the race. That I agree with. Red Bull argued that: 1. “Any” does not mean “all”. In the context of lapped cars be...

tootsie323

... lets add that even without Masi's Eifel confesssion, the rule reads that all cars must be unlapped, and there is no precedent before and after... I've been arguing the any-versus-all point on here and am re-reading 48.12 from the 2021 regulations: ... any cars that have been lapped by the leade...

tootsie323

I never said I couldn't. I just don't think I need to to prove my point. I'm the one you're accusing in a roundabout way; rather uncharacteristic of you. I would say it's more of an observation. My observation is that in any even slightly controversial issue that involves Hamilton you appear to com...

tootsie323

"any" in that context means all, and there is absolutely no "may unlap" in there. furthermore you didnt answer the question, how can the same rule mean totally opposite things ? one of the interpretations must be invalid. That's your interpretation - and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with it. Mor...

tootsie323

... here is the link. https://www.fia.com/2021-f1-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-report-world-motor-sport-council-19-march-2022 P.s. I trust no one here thinks that the race was restarted in an unsafe manner? This is the crux - as much as I did not like the manner in which the race finished, it was within a ...

tootsie323

and why is in your opinion both meaning reasonable: a) the rule means that all cars must unlap b) RD may pick whichever car to unlap both cant be true at the same time ? The rule stated that any lapped car may unlap. We've (in a broad forum member sense) had the debate over the meaning of this alre...

tootsie323

... here is the link. https://www.fia.com/2021-f1-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-report-world-motor-sport-council-19-march-2022 P.s. I trust no one here thinks that the race was restarted in an unsafe manner? This is the crux - as much as I did not like the manner in which the race finished, it was within a ...

tootsie323

I think any rule can be "interpreted" any way you want. With "letter" of the rules you obviously meant not a message encased in an envelope, but I could interpret it like that if I want right? But is it a valid interpretation? Maybe you would like to comment why did Masi interpret the rules differe...

tootsie323

Yes I read it, I just quoted it. There are 2 clear admittance of errors: The report mentions that there was a misunderstanding of the wording which has now been amended to prevent any confusion in future - this is in reference to the 'any' not meaning all argument (a wording they 'corrected' now), ...

tootsie323

The inquiry report and the official statement from the FIA President do not disagree with each other both clearly identify misunderstandings and the fact they corrected something as outlined in the report is confirmed by the FIA presidents statements as to why there were corrections to process to r...

tootsie323

Its bad faith ot argue that there is nothing to see here. We saw him dictate a procedure never before or since seen in order to engineer a faux-race, a decision he made which later saw him removed from the position of Race Director after an enquiry into the night and forced to sign an NDA. A decisi...

tootsie323

It is wonderful that people view matters as bad faith when you refer to the official (and binding) document from the Stewards and to the World Motorsport Council report, but good faith when conspiracy theories are bandied about. :? Its bad faith ot argue that there is nothing to see here. We saw hi...

tootsie323

It is wonderful that people view matters as bad faith when you refer to the official (and binding) document from the Stewards and to the World Motorsport Council report, but good faith when conspiracy theories are bandied about. :? I'm also a bit surprised by people who forget Bonnington's insight;...

tootsie323

I wonder... If we had a sort of calculation for "expected pass" like XG in football what Verstappen's "EP" would have been for that final lap. It would be very high. Max finished the final lap 2.2 seconds ahead, having started behind. Considering he weaved on the straight and went defensive, that's...

tootsie323

I wonder... If we had a sort of calculation for "expected pass" like XG in football what Verstappen's "EP" would have been for that final lap. We saw the inverse of the situation earlier in the race, with Checo on dead soft tires against Lewis on new hard tires, and Checo was able to come back afte...

tootsie323

... I'm a little confused with the inclusion of the word notional preceding tax credit in the report - notional suggests hypothetical and, in my experience, HMRC (UK Government tax) does provide a real tax rebate against R&D expenditure... We know for a fact about something that nobody seems to be ...

tootsie323

I can see the argument over what is a more direct influence on a race outcome. The SC deployment in the first instance has the effect of bunching the field, negating any gaps opened between drivers. Secondly, drivers have an opportunity to change strategy by which they may gain an advantage over oth...

tootsie323

... I'm a little confused with the inclusion of the word notional preceding tax credit in the report - notional suggests hypothetical and, in my experience, HMRC (UK Government tax) does provide a real tax rebate against R&D expenditure... We know for a fact about something that nobody seems to be ...

tootsie323

... I, for instance, refuse to believe that RB - who I consider to be the smartest, sharpest, and most competitive team in F1 - to be naive or dumb enough to miscalculate more than a dozen cost categories... I'm not so sure that it was a series of miscalculations but more that Red Bull 'wrote off' ...

tootsie323

The primary arguments I see being discussed are the unlapping of some, but not all, lapped cars and in the Safety Car being removed immediately, as opposed to after the following lap. Just another look at the regualtions specific to the use of the Safety Car (highlighting what I think are the relev...

tootsie323

The primary arguments I see being discussed are the unlapping of some, but not all, lapped cars and in the Safety Car being removed immediately, as opposed to after the following lap. Just another look at the regualtions specific to the use of the Safety Car (highlighting what I think are the relev...

tootsie323

I've had to re-read the FIA report on the breach and associated ABA . In short: Red Bull and the FIA disagreed on the accounting and Red Bull had to accept that some items that were not included in the overall cost should have been. The FIA determined that Red Bull did not act in bad faith and did n...

tootsie323

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:35 pm

Fiki wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:22 pm

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:45 pm
Is there any news on this one? Is it still on?
It appears that Jean Todt has views on this matter. Views that don't ridicule Massa's action, which I find rather refreshing.
Wasn't he the Ferrari team boss back in 2008?

No. Domenicali had taken over from Todt after 2007.

tootsie323

The primary arguments I see being discussed are the unlapping of some, but not all, lapped cars and in the Safety Car being removed immediately, as opposed to after the following lap. Just another look at the regualtions specific to the use of the Safety Car (highlighting what I think are the releva...

tootsie323

You can not say that the rule requires to unlap all cars, and then not unlap all cars.You can not change your actions on the same situation by 'different intepretation' or by 'changing your decision making', while the rule presrcribed for the situation stays the same. Why have a set of rules then ?...

tootsie323

Yes Mas was criticied for keeping the SC out long at the Eifel GP. Then Masi explained he must have done that because the rule says that ALL lapped cars must unlap themselves. Suddenly 1 year later he can handpick cars? Who in the right mind buys that? And that any in that context means all? And if...

tootsie323

So - apart from Red Bull and Aston Martin having been found to have not followed the correct procedure for being granted R&D credit, according to the FIA reports, there is no evidence that any other team even applied for this? The firm I work for applies for - and receives - a government R&D tax cre...

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