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ColdWinter

If it's true that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron Dennis and McLaren, then he is not a fine human being. Quite the opposite in fact.

ColdWinter

...Even a 5 year old kid won't have fun with a game he is constantly winning easily ESPECIALLY when it is obvious his opponents are at a disadvantage in some way different from skill. ... This thought brings back a lot of memories. Who can forget Senna, after winning a WDC, threatening to attack hi...

ColdWinter

I find Vettel's communication on the radio, after races, totally inadequate and quite right ridiculous at moments. After winning, presumably the next boring race, in which he had a miracle of a car and dominated from the start, he starts screaming and cheering like he just made the most amazing thi...

ColdWinter

Vettel finds over 3/10ths in the last sector.

Amazing. No wonder so many drivers, past and present, put him amongst the all-time greats.

ColdWinter

RaggedMan wrote:I can see this turning into a huge cluster chocolate fudge cake. ...

LOL, sure sounds like it.

ColdWinter

I found this nice article about Vettel on Motorsport Magazine: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/the-real-sebastian-vettel/ Most of the details will be known to fans - like him not having a manager, and being rather low-maintenance. But it does describe a few interesting incidents which highligh...

ColdWinter

I was saying that the outcome of WDC's can be circumstantial. Especially WDC's that go down right to the wire. I'm trying to get the point across that without Vettel scoring 4 WDC's in a row, had he not won 2012 or 2010 that he would not be considered an all time great today, despite driving the ex...

ColdWinter

I agree about having to wait longer to assess an F1 driver than athletes in other sports due to the car/driver combo. And up until a couple of weeks ago I agreed with your assessment. But with all the great drivers, both past and present, stating that Vettel is one of the greats, I am starting to g...

ColdWinter

OK. Well, there's blinkered fanboys everywhere :) Indeed, I just suppose I misunderstand what people are seeking during conversations, not just here but every forum I am involved in. This place is much better than most and I get the impression you guys are very knowledgeable.This thread has divided...

ColdWinter

ColdWinter

Another near perfect weekend. Just messed up a tad in qualy. GJ Webber taking advantage.

ColdWinter

Crappy clutch bite point info. and failing KERS. Par for thehis rac course. He had a better initial launch then Vettel this race, from Vettelon board he tried to steer left to block Vettel but Vettel had better accelaration. I also noticed that, and it´s curious.... How could Vettel have better acc...

ColdWinter

Lauda, Stewart, Massa, Prost, Hamilton, etc., all seem to have analyzed that Vettel's success is down to more than the car. It would appear that those who continue to claim it's all about the car are the ones who lack expertise and insight. Or do you think we should seriously consider that a random...

ColdWinter

As you pointed, people prefer the known quantities over unknown. And in practically all those discussion and debates, the same pattern of both evaluating Vettel and placing forward the requirements "what_he_needs_to_do", is very prominent: the comparison with this or that known-quanity driver. One ...

ColdWinter

That´s what I was reffering to, in 11 and 13 he had it too easy, and as I tried to illustrate with Button´s example in 09, driving to perfection with a car much better than the rest is easy for any F1 driver. But when his car has not been the best by far (10 and 12) he was not able to drive to perf...

ColdWinter

Nothing against Webber, but I don't think he has done anything to deserve a gifted win. If he had helped Vettel in Brazil 2012, I would say yes.

To those who say "Yes", could you state what Webber has done to deserve this?

ColdWinter

The greats is a quite high standard, you can´t include anyone on that group so easily Well said, Andres. That's exactly why there is not existing a consensus on any of the current drivers as to be included in to that group. None of them. They may be great, but as you said it correctly, you can't in...

ColdWinter

crespo wrote:
ColdWinter wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:...
Yeah, 'cause winning 4xWDCs is "so easy". Just like your favourite driver eh? Oh wait....
What a wonderfully mature retort! Cheers!

Read some of Andres' posts. You will understand.

ColdWinter

2010, best car, several mistakes. Actually only a smart move from his wall in the last race (when his team mate was in better position than him) made him win that championship 2012, very good driving, yes. That year I started thinking he´s a really good driver. But even so without Grosjean accident...

ColdWinter

IMO, sorry but no. Vettel doesn't deserve recognition for what he does? No, Vettel doesn´t deserve to be considered one of the greats because with his car it´s easy to drive to perfection ;) Let´s me explain it with an example. Button also drove to perfection first half of 2009 with 6 victories in ...

ColdWinter

Zoue made a very good point :) OTOH, if you struggle with a car wich is at least one second faster than second faster (second faster, not the cars he was overtaking ;) ) and you struggle overtaking with DRS and such a fast car..... you should think about retiring Are you saying Hamilton should cons...

ColdWinter

There is only 1 condition people add not this "list of conditions" people keep talking about, its fine that you don't have that same condition, but to say that anyone with that condition has an agenda and is biased is pretty ridiculous to be fair. I merely want to compare him against a known qualit...

ColdWinter

Also the fact that Vettel continuous success has cast shadows over not just 1 or 2, but 4-5 pre-established World Champions in the grid(3 of which may still have a bigger fan base than Vettel`s), has been a major factor for the general "disliking". As this forum has been going around and around Vet...

ColdWinter

Well first things first, english is not my native language so pardon me, I will try to explain myself the best I can.... Im SICK AND TIRED of reading or hearing other drivers praise Sebastian Vettel like hes the second coming of Jesus himself. "Hes among the greatest" "he doesnt have any faults" "h...

ColdWinter

Senna was awesome had his career not been cut short I think he would have eclipsed anyone. Senna was indeed an awesome racer. However I think he'd have had a very hard time from Schumacher if he'd lived to race longer. My opinion too, and i liked Senna while never warming too much to Schumacher. I ...

ColdWinter

F1Oz wrote:Ridiculous comment - Mark will be there and do the best he can…as always

Agreed, he's the consumate professional..

Webber knew F1 is a cutthroat business when he signed his contract.

ColdWinter

4xWDC!

ColdWinter

It seems Niki wants in on the act as he agrees with Murray & Bernie http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report-sebastian-vettel-as-good-as-aryton-senna-alain-prost-niki-lauda-1909287? Well, now, shouldn't that be left for an another thread in its own right (Murray got it, Bernie too): Vettel alongside gr...

ColdWinter

Well, I listen till he says something in the opening seconds... "This entire rapport is based on hear-say... and I have no any proof on it... this entire rapport is based on phantasy.." And that far was exactly how much I managed to stay with the guy in a black ski headwear. LOL, my feelings exactl...

ColdWinter

You'll probably find that they are bouncing offers back and fourth. You can imagine one team offers a driver X, then he goes back to the other team and they offer him Y, and it goes over and over and over. As it stands, between them they've got a lot of drivers to choose from, as have Sauber. Off t...

ColdWinter

i'm not saying its his fault he hasn't faced another WC driver yet, he's only 5 years into his career I don't expect him to have done so, i'm just saying its naive to declare someone an all time great when they haven't even got to the half way point in their career yet, have had the best car for 3 ...

ColdWinter

i'm not saying its his fault he hasn't faced another WC driver yet, he's only 5 years into his career I don't expect him to have done so, i'm just saying its naive to declare someone an all time great when they haven't even got to the half way point in their career yet, have had the best car for 3 ...

ColdWinter

i'm not saying its his fault he hasn't faced another WC driver yet, he's only 5 years into his career I don't expect him to have done so, i'm just saying its naive to declare someone an all time great when they haven't even got to the half way point in their career yet, have had the best car for 3 ...

ColdWinter

i'm not saying its his fault he hasn't faced another WC driver yet, he's only 5 years into his career I don't expect him to have done so, i'm just saying its naive to declare someone an all time great when they haven't even got to the half way point in their career yet, have had the best car for 3 ...

ColdWinter

Vettel knows his not great himself. Al-time great is just absurd. If I considered myself the best I would face Alonso or Hamilton just to stop the booing. Just like Button after WDC with Brawn. Every great champion has his pride. Vettel hears the booing, knows that people say “it’s the car” and doe...

ColdWinter

LKS1 wrote: ....
And to be fair, with 3 WDCs to his name, those claiming that this makes him an all time great have a better argument than those insisting its 'all down to the car'....

At this point, I have to agree with you LKS1.

ColdWinter

Dont suppose you would have the data on how his team mate has fared during this period? Just interested to compare. Also I sometimes wonder that if it dos not go wrong now and again, are they close enough to the sharp edge ? Do you mean in terms of driving, or in terms of design? I think that the f...

ColdWinter

I can't view the image, It's a picture of his Japan-spec helmet with the texts "1571" and "F1 points world record". F1 pointless world record would be more apt. :lol: actually I agree. Notwithstanding the points changes, the grid size changes, the number of races per season, safety, reliability, et...

ColdWinter

You do know how this sport started don't you? All working class lads who were fantastic drivers...oh wait. It's always been driven by money, you either take on an average driver with a lot of sponsorship or you take a brilliant young driver knowing the potential for marketing and earning through su...

ColdWinter

Fernando himself certainly seems proud to break the record: http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/1024px/2013/010/1756296.jpg I think its quite sad :( . Alonso knows that on a comparable basis he is nowhere close to breaking the record on points - so how desperate do you have to be to try to pre...

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