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pg55555

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I almost voted for Grosjean - after all crashes are "exciting".

pg55555

Inappropriate post removed.

pg55555

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One of the few things I like about Formula E is that the narrow tyres make the cars prone to drifting - oh for that in Formula 1.

Bring back driving skills, not test pilot precision/discipline.

pg55555

. So, how many seconds of free air does a Mercedes "need" from the car ahead to protect its tyres, and does this differ significantly from any of the other cars on the grid ? Or, is the only real problem tyre wear when the Mercedes is going faster than any of the other cars can ever achieve ? . [/c...

pg55555

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So, how many seconds of free air does a Mercedes "need" from the car ahead to protect its tyres, and does this differ significantly from any of the other cars on the grid ?

Or, is the only real problem tyre wear when the Mercedes is going faster than any of the other cars can ever achieve ?

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pg55555

. Has anyone heard any expert opinion on the various cars' set up (wet, dry, or ?????) ? Q3 was "lucky" in as much as at its very beginning there was a lot of small areas of standing water, and some teams went out on full wets. The session stayed, basically, dry and intermediates were the fastest op...

pg55555

Zoue wrote: and you seem to think that partial facts are all one needs to form a judgement

No. There is video evidence that the mechanics realised there was a problem and tried to stop the release but the team failed.

Do you deny the video evidence ?

pg55555

Mechanics might or might not had been unsure. They might even honestly believe there was a big problem while in fact there might not had been a big problem. Never mind. The fact is that you do not know just anything about what the instructions they have as how to react in such situation. You only p...

pg55555

But the FIA whose job it is to investigate it said it was safe and thought differently. Do you not think its possible that the mechanics where wrong and Ferrari played safe? No, the FIA released a nonsensical statement (NO ONE has yet tried to explain its gobbledegook language) which completely ign...

pg55555

Maybe the mechanics made a mistake? They thought there was a problem and so put their hands up, maybe once the car came back to the garage it was checked and deemed a safe release. None of us can say what the truth is without access to all the evidence. No, they did not make a mistake - witness the...

pg55555

They were unsure about. "There was a possible problem" there. The car was released in potentially unsafe condition. Not in an unsafe condition. That is the difference. If you do understand. So you got the official statements, and you got the answer from the Ferrari boss and now you may stop keeping...

pg55555

PzR Slim wrote:
Not sure the FIA are reading this thread

I'm not sure you are either.

pg55555

And once again you are ignoring the question. Which suggests you don't have an answer. I'll ask a slightly different one: do you accept the stewards have more information on the incident than you do? And, again, you try to draw my attention away from the simple fact that the video demonstrates the ...

pg55555

I stress again that you need to direct your ire at the FIA. If they deem the release to be safe, exactly what is to be punished. You are more than welcome to start a new thread asking, 'Why did the FIA deem Kimi's release as safe when it clearly wasn't?' I'd suggest however that in this thread your...

pg55555

And once again you are ignoring the question. Which suggests you don't have an answer. I'll ask a slightly different one: do you accept the stewards have more information on the incident than you do? And, again, you try to draw my attention away from the simple fact that the video demonstrates the ...

pg55555

Just to deal with it again for you - It is very possible that the nut was not on 100% tightly. Perhaps it was only 95%? meaning that there was no danger of it falling off in the very short term but it could work its way loose. Ferrari probably plaid things very cautiously in retiring Kimi rather th...

pg55555

NO ! The car was not found by the FIA officials to had been released in an unsafe manner. That you personally think otherwise, is immaterial here. .......................... The mechanics might had been in error thinking that the wheel was not attached in the safe way. NO. The car was stopped becau...

pg55555

mikeyg123 wrote:
I haven't. I made a post that dealt with that very issue.

Did you ? Please tell me which one.

pg55555

Then your ire should be directed at the FIA for not implementing their own rules correctly. If they say the release was safe then there is nothing wrong with Ferrari not being punished. The debate then becomes 'Why on earth do the FIA think it was a safe release?' First, THAT is what I was doing. S...

pg55555

Again, this is an assumption. How do you know they ignored the facts, as opposed to considering them along with all the other available evidence? Why is your opinion the only correct one, despite the limited evidence you have in comparison? So you want to ignore a video showing the mechanics trying...

pg55555

Perhaps the wheel nut was almost all the way on? Enough for it to be safe for Kimi to continue driving but loose enough that Ferrari were worried that it may start to wobble if he continued? I think that's possible. Usually we do see the wheels wobbling on the car when they haven't been properly at...

pg55555

Again, this is an assumption. How do you know they ignored the facts, as opposed to considering them along with all the other available evidence? Why is your opinion the only correct one, despite the limited evidence you have in comparison? So you want to ignore a video showing the mechanics trying...

pg55555

READ my post. The FIA has mandated that the unsafe release of a car should be penalised. Question: Did FIA find Kimi's car to be released in an unsafe manner? 1. YES. You got some case to push forward. 2. NO. You are beating a dead horse. Which one would it be? Oh dear ...... Did you, or did you no...

pg55555

Why do you think that the decision was "right" when the Stewards ignored the two mechanics ? you seem to be fixated on this but avoid any questions which ask you why. For the record, you have NO evidence that they ignored the mechanics. You don't know what was said, or what explanations were given,...

pg55555

NO ! The car was not found by the FIA officials to had been released in an unsafe manner. That you personally think otherwise, is immaterial here. .......................... The mechanics might had been in error thinking that the wheel was not attached in the safe way. NO. The car was stopped becau...

pg55555

the stewards have given their verdict but you say that's not enough and insist Ferrari should be punished. So in that regard I'd say you were baying for blood since you appear to want to see a punishment at all costs. As to the why, the statement confirms they feel it was not unsafe. Why is that no...

pg55555

And they paid the price by having their car retire from 5th place because of it. No, the "price" for releasing a car in an unsafe condition should be a proper penalty. Why? is a DNF not a pretty big penalty? What would an additional penalty achieve? READ my post. The FIA has mandated that the unsaf...

pg55555

I believe the stewards made the right decision in not penalising as Ferrari stopped the car soon after the release. The reasons given though were strange. To me, it was more of leniency in the first race than anything else. Why do you think that the decision was "right" when the Stewards ignored th...

pg55555

I find it sad that people are frothing at the mouth and lamenting the lack of punishment in spite of the fact that the FIA accepted there was no danger to anyone. Is this how we want to see races decided? By penalties? The statement clearly says that they considered the car was NOT unsafe when rele...

pg55555

And they paid the price by having their car retire from 5th place because of it. No, the "price" for releasing a car in an unsafe condition should be a proper penalty. Why? is a DNF not a pretty big penalty? What would an additional penalty achieve? READ my post. The FIA has mandated that the unsaf...

pg55555

If they judged it was not unsafe, then you cannot argue that they were putting others in danger. It really is that simple. Except that it doesn't make any sense. Two Ferrari mechanics had their hands up trying to stop the car - so THEY judged it was in an unsafe condition. The reason that the Stewa...

pg55555

Zoue wrote:
No, I haven't forgotten, thanks. But aren't there tethers now to stop this kind of thing?

First, they don't always work, and secondly, the wheel coming off can cause an accident any way which may injure the driver, other drivers or the spectators.

pg55555

mikeyg123 wrote:
And they paid the price by having their car retire from 5th place because of it.

No, the "price" for releasing a car in an unsafe condition should be a proper penalty.

pg55555

But that didn't happen on this occasion so nobody was impeded. And the stewards definitely don't agree with your last sentence. NO ! The car was released in an unsafe manner - just because nothing happened doesn't mean that that isn't true. I asked originally whether anyone could make sense of the ...

pg55555

But if the wheel is not properly attached then Kimi will only be able to limp round and certainly gain no advantage from it. It would hardly make him faster? So no, in that situation I see no reason for a punishment. Nobody is trying to release cars without wheels properly attached so what does pun...

pg55555

but in that event how would you determine that it had been an unsafe release? After all, he would have finished the race. The whole point of him pulling over was that the team had determined there was a risk with him carrying on. If he'd e.g. gone a whole lap this time with the intention of going b...

pg55555

. This was discussed at length a few seasons ago when red Bull were boring people (and probably when Schumacher was dominant - I wasn't here then). 1: At some stage through the faster cars overtaking the slower there would be teams that were relatively evenly matched and you would end up with a "Tru...

pg55555

mikeyg123 wrote:
But what would be the reason to give him a further penalty? What would it achieve?

It is to TRY to ensure that the teams do not release unsafe cars by, for example, ignoring two of their mechanics.

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pg55555

mikeyg123 wrote:
Kimi was penalized when he had to pull over and retire. What good would giving him another one do?

THAT is not an official penalty as laid down in the rules, that is merely an unfortunate consequence.

pg55555

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Look at 4:42 into this video ;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31894797

Maybe the mechanics were just having a joke.

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