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KingVoid

You seemed to have explained it yourself in regards to legacy, weaker teammates and you don't get credit for beating a teammate you never had. In terms of titles with different teams, Verstappen chose to always drive for Red Bull. Hamilton moved when he lost faith in his own team, he didn’t move fo...

KingVoid

One thing that bothers me about the Max/Lewis debate is that many of the arguments for Lewis being better are not actually based on skill, but on legacy. For instance, Lewis has won a title for two different teams. Max has never had a realistic opportunity at achieving this. It’s not like he has an...

KingVoid

One thing that bothers me about the Max/Lewis debate is that many of the arguments for Lewis being better are not actually based on skill, but on legacy. For instance, Lewis has won a title for two different teams. Max has never had a realistic opportunity at achieving this. It’s not like he has and...

KingVoid

That upside is completely immaterial if you first driver is delivering on all cylinders every single race. How many more races would Red Bull have won since the beginning of 2022 if another driver sat next to Verstappen? The races Red Bull lost to Ferrari in the first half of 2022 were because Ferr...

KingVoid

Not much Verstappen can do about the so-called quality of his teammates when two of the best drivers on the grid (Alonso and Norris) are both too scared to face him. Is there a reliable source for Alonso turning down a Red Bull offer? Genuine question. Der Ex-Champion entschied sich damit für klare...

KingVoid

2010 and 2012 were both fantastic races that have somehow been completely overshadowed by the generational race in 2011.

KingVoid

Not much Verstappen can do about the so-called quality of his teammates when two of the best drivers on the grid (Alonso and Norris) are both too scared to face him. Is there a reliable source for Alonso turning down a Red Bull offer? Genuine question. Der Ex-Champion entschied sich damit für klare...

KingVoid

Not much Verstappen can do about the so-called quality of his teammates when two of the best drivers on the grid (Alonso and Norris) are both too scared to face him.

KingVoid

Based on the performance of Kovalainen (not Hamilton), I would say that McLaren was better than Ferrari in Australia, Britain, Germany, Italy and Japan. Hungary is difficult to read, McLaren locked out the front row but Massa looked great in the race. Was Massa just inspired on the day or did Heikki...

KingVoid

This is how I would rank them

10. 2004
9. 2013
8. 2009
7. 2016
6. 2018
5. 2012
4. 2010
3. 2006
2. 2007
1. 2011

KingVoid

The same concept as the Australia and Japan poll, this time we have quite a few contenders. Despite China only having been on the calendar since 2004, it has produced a lot of great racing. 2006 - the last victory of Michael Schumacher. He qualified in 6th as his title rivals Renault locked out the ...

KingVoid

The reason why Verstappen rose so fast is simple, he went from having a car that was hugely inferior to Mercedes until December 2020, to a car that was the clear dominant one from August 2022 on. He only spent about 18 months racing a car that was roughly equal with the best (from Bahrain 2021 to Hu...

KingVoid

Hamilton won his 57th race at the 2017 British Grand Prix. Verstappen won it yesterday.

It’s quite a weird feeling because by midway 2017, Hamilton felt like he was a lot further along in his career.

KingVoid

Races Verstappen has lost in the ground effect era Australia 2024 - car failure Singapore 2023 - car nowhere near quick enough Baku 2023 - leading until the safety car gave Perez a free pit stop Jeddah 2023 - quickest in Q1 by half a second but car fails in Q2 Brazil 2022 - car not quick enough as ...

KingVoid

It just shows you know everything about Red Bull but nothing about Mercedes, slow pitstops, strategy blunders, how Red Bull operate is on a different level, they managed to get Hamilton penalised in the opening race of the 2020 season by presenting evidence to the stewards that he had not slowed do...

KingVoid

Races Verstappen has lost in the ground effect era Australia 2024 - car failure Singapore 2023 - car nowhere near quick enough Baku 2023 - leading until the safety car gave Perez a free pit stop Jeddah 2023 - quickest in Q1 by half a second but car fails in Q2 Brazil 2022 - car not quick enough as ...

KingVoid

I reckon I've seen the careers of 5 all time great drivers in my time watching F1. I only seen the tail end of Prost and Senna so never lived through it to judge the whole picture. In terms of overall attributes - I'd rate them: 1) Alonso 2) Schumacher 3) Verstappen 4) Hamilton (Some daylight) 5) V...

KingVoid

The underlying logic here seems to be: whenever Verstappen doesn't win, his car was not quick enough. That's the a priori assumption. ;) That's literally just 3 of the 12.... 5 Plus no evidence that Perez cheated in Monaco plus Baku 2023 Perez was quicker anyway. It is a one-sided view as much as y...

KingVoid

Races Verstappen has lost in the ground effect era Australia 2024 - car failure Singapore 2023 - car nowhere near quick enough Baku 2023 - leading until the safety car gave Perez a free pit stop Jeddah 2023 - quickest in Q1 by half a second but car fails in Q2 Brazil 2022 - car not quick enough as ...

KingVoid

Races Verstappen has lost in the ground effect era Australia 2024 - car failure Singapore 2023 - car nowhere near quick enough Baku 2023 - leading until the safety car gave Perez a free pit stop Jeddah 2023 - quickest in Q1 by half a second but car fails in Q2 Brazil 2022 - car not quick enough as ...

KingVoid

It's not a mystery. I set out my parameters. I'm taking it from the point where Verstappen had a dominant car. That's from Belgium 2022. Before that his car wasn't dominant and nobody regarded it as such. I'm only looking at 2019 and 2020 for Hamilton for the same reason. He won the championship in...

KingVoid

The 2019 and 2020 seasons are comparable to the 2022 and 2023 seasons but for some reason you don't include all of the 2022 season, including all would make 10 races that he lost. I've no doubt that Verstappen did better but it's very much a black and white comparison you make, Red Bull operational...

KingVoid

There’s a difference between ruining a legacy and weakening a GOAT case, I think they should be separated. Verstappen doing things that Hamilton was never able to do, not even at the height of Mercedes dominance with Bottas as a teammate, won’t rule Hamilton out of the GOAT conversation, but it doe...

KingVoid

There’s a difference between ruining a legacy and weakening a GOAT case, I think they should be separated. Verstappen doing things that Hamilton was never able to do, not even at the height of Mercedes dominance with Bottas as a teammate, won’t rule Hamilton out of the GOAT conversation, but it doe...

KingVoid

Unlike you JN23 I can't be bothered to read back through this whole thread to check if this has already been mentioned but one thing I will say that Hamilton's legacy will continue beyond his time in the seat, not sure I feel the same will ever be said about Verstappen. I agree that Hamilton is the...

KingVoid

Unlike you JN23 I can't be bothered to read back through this whole thread to check if this has already been mentioned but one thing I will say that Hamilton's legacy will continue beyond his time in the seat, not sure I feel the same will ever be said about Verstappen. I agree that Hamilton is the...

KingVoid

I might have nominated 1995 and 1997 as well as your great nominations. 1995 almost solely down to Alesi driving the most Alesi race imaginable and the Williams drivers imploding. 1997 because of the off track politics creating such a bizarre spectacle. 1995 and 1997 were before my time watching an...

KingVoid

Japan is one of those rare cases where the best ever race is not even a debate (at least I don’t think it is).

KingVoid

The question is with each passing year that Merc and Hamilton continue their dominance does it hurt Max Verstappen’s long term legacy in the sport? It seems like he doesn’t maximize his opportunities on many occasions - none clearer than today. It’s always interesting to read these old threads back...

KingVoid

Schumacher and Verstappen both were able to secure competitive machinery early in their careers and Hamilton from day one. Alonso had to wait for Renault to become competitive, but when the car was, he maximised the opportunity. Still, his debut season was spectacular in my view. Were the Red Bull ...

KingVoid

I distinctly remember Alonso impressing the hell out of everybody driving the Minardi in his debut season. He was impressive, and I think it was apparent he was good - but I feel it took a while to realise just how good Alonso actually was. Certainly for me, I thought he was a very good driver but ...

KingVoid

The 4 elite talents to break through in my years of watching F1. Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and Verstappen. 3 of them showed up in F1 and you realised they were very special within a few races of their debut. Alonso took a little longer, but it may have been equipment. Once he had a decent car he...

KingVoid

Perez's car was damaged when he overtook Alonso, which happened midway his middle stint. This means that his first stint was an accurate representation of pace, and I have to say, Sainz destroyed him. By the time Perez made his first pit stop on lap 14, he was already 15 seconds behind Sainz or so,...

KingVoid

Perez's car was damaged when he overtook Alonso, which happened midway his middle stint. This means that his first stint was an accurate representation of pace, and I have to say, Sainz destroyed him. By the time Perez made his first pit stop on lap 14, he was already 15 seconds behind Sainz or so, ...

KingVoid

As for Hamilton's "decline", I know that Russell had engine problems in Bahrain but I don't know how much laptime that cost him. Hamilton seemed decent in Saudi but somewhat unremarkable in Australia even before his car failed. It's difficult to judge how much this supposed decline is because of age...

KingVoid

From what I remember of Sainz vs Verstappen when they were together at Toro Rosso: ... By the first four races of 2016, Max looked like he was a clear step above on raw pace. 3-1 in qualifying and faster on race day everywhere. I'm not too shocked that's your memory of events, but the actual result...

KingVoid

From what I remember of Sainz vs Verstappen when they were together at Toro Rosso: Initially Sainz looked the quicker of the two in the first half of 2015, but in the second half of 2015 Max gained the upper hand. Probably expected, given that he was 17 and Carlos was 20 when they made their debut. ...

KingVoid

At this stage, I feel like I have seen enough of Leclerc and Russell to know that they are the Vettel and Rosberg of this generation. Very talented drivers with plenty of redeeming qualities but lack something relative to the absolute elite, and as they are both 26 and in their 6th/7th season in the...

KingVoid

Did Maranello let the wrong driver go for 2025?? Carlos has beaten Charley in both races that he contested this year. Charles said today (Australian GP) that Carlos was faster all weekend. It will be interesting to watch the team mate battle at Team Red this year. The difference between the four dr...

KingVoid

We forget the Monaco race in 2016 that Ricciardo should have won and have the need to mention Verstappen's rookie teammate, the years you look to mention Mercedes never had the kind of dominance that Red Bull have now, apart from 2020, also Mercedes are far more inferior when it comes to strategy w...

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