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KingVoid

mikeyg123 wrote:Rosberg beat Hamilton in a fair fight once all season.

*Twice
Brazil and Austria

Also, seven times in 2013 (Monaco, Spain, Monza, Singapore, India, Abu Dhabi & Brazil).

KingVoid

Banana Man wrote:Button, Alonso and Hamilton have pretty much matched each other on Sunday when they have been team mates. Rosberg hasn't and is the weak link of the four IMO.

Already gone over this in another thread, but Button isn't stronger than Rosberg. Quite the opposite actually.

KingVoid

mikeyg123 wrote:This one?

Hamilton beat Button 26-14 in a two-car finish. Hamilton beat Rosberg also in a two-car finish, but only by 17-12.

Still see no evidence to rate Button above Rosberg on race pace.

KingVoid

Hamilton and Alonso are too close to call. However, Rosberg is faster than Button, so Mercedes get the nod from me.

KingVoid

Button struggled in 2012 - no-one's denying that. He had a very up and down season. In Canada he admitted to being unable to switch the tyres on, while in Monaco he got stuck behind Kovaleinen after being baulked by Kobayashi at turn one, and we all now how difficult it is to overtake at Monaco. Ye...

KingVoid

And yet Button managed to beat Lewis in races far more than Nico has. He did? In what universe did Button beat Hamilton clean more often than Rosberg has? Makes less mistakes as well. Of course, it's easier to make less mistakes when driving slower. If Button tried to match Hamilton's speed like Ro...

KingVoid

Does anyone have an examples of where Rosberg got LAPPED by Hamilton in 2014 like Hamilton lapped Button in Monaco and Canada 2012? Does anyone have any examples of where Hamilton put 1.0 seconds between himself and Rosberg in a normal dry qualifying session like Hamilton did to Button in Spain, Mon...

KingVoid

Rosberg was on average 0.148 seconds faster than Hamilton in Q3, and beat Lewis 10-7 overall in 2014 (excluding Germany and Hungary). Hamilton was on average 0.419 seconds faster than Button in qualifying in 2012, and beat Jenson 17-3 overall. If Button had been on average 0.419 s slower than the po...

KingVoid

Zoue. Ok, although i'm still not sure why Mercedes would keep a driver that needs a car to be clearly faster than the rest, if like you stated the cars equalise and then he starts to fall backwards. Saying that, it is possible other factors than driving performance come in to play when offering con...

KingVoid

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Button is simply too slow to beat Rosberg. Jenson's better race craft isn't going to save him from getting plummeted by Rosberg almost every Saturday. Nor will his strategy decision making save him from getting outclassed by Rosberg on raw pace in normal dr...

KingVoid

I hope my post didn't come across as me accusing you of lying, KingVoid. All I meant was that it was such an exaggeration that even blood relatives couldn't say such a thing. Oh no, I understood what you meant the first time. :nod: I posted that comment here to show just how ridiculous some of the ...

KingVoid

MarileneRiddle: "I base that judgement on their stint as team mates in F3000 (in which Webber beat Alonso), the fact that Webber replaced Alonso in Minardi leaving Alonso without a seat in 2002, the fact that while at Minardi Alonso lagged behind his team mate throughout the season and finished 23r...

KingVoid

With that being said, I don't believe that Red Bull was not the fastest car in Monaco, because Mercedes was. Merc were the fastest car in qualifying, and Rosberg matched Webber's pace in the race. The WO3 was the car to have that weekend, IMO. I also remember MS being faster than the leaders once he...

KingVoid

After JAPAN 2007, with only 2 races left (CHINA and BRAZIL) the championship table looked like this: HAM 107 ALO 95 RAI 90 MAS 77 Massa had 80 points after Japan actually, despite having to start 3 races from the back of the grid due no fault of his own (Australia, Silverstone & Hungary) and having...

KingVoid

What happened in 2014 was the complete opposite of what I thought would happen. Hamilton was better at fuel saving and tire saving. He also had a better head on his shoulders than Rosberg, and made less mistakes. Rosberg was the faster driver in qualifying, but couldn't replicate his immense one-lap...

KingVoid

I think that in 2014, just about all of the guys I mentioned above came to a very cold and brutal realization of just how immense Alonso is behind the wheel. Hence, instead a lot (not all) of Kimi fans are now moving the goalpost and instead blaming Alonso's development for the uncompetitive Ferrari...

KingVoid

There were several posters on Autosport, such as BackOnTop, 2ms, mattferg, MarileneRiddle, Winter98, SpaMaster, etc... that were just delusional to an extreme amount when bashing Alonso. Coincidentally, they were all Raikkonen fans. "Alonslow is only faster than Massa because Ferrari favor him, he c...

KingVoid

Thing is, apart from Monza, Red Bull were there or always thereabouts with the top teams. OTOH, McLaren's speed was a lot more inconsistent. You have weekends like Bahrain, Valencia, Silverstone, Japan, and Korea where they were all 1 second off the pace relative to the leaders (sometimes even more)...

KingVoid

Yes, but all the downforce issue isn´t as simple as it sounds, you can´t just add downforce without increasing drag and fuel consumption, so even with the possibility of adding more downforce, teams wouldn´t be able to use much more because of the fuel limits. What about races like Monaco, where fu...

KingVoid

If the Ferrari was the 3rd quickest car then you'd have expected Alonso to have been put under a bit of pressure during the race. He did come under pressure from both Vettel and Button. At what point? While Alonso didn't exactly disappear down the road he kept both drivers comfortably at arm's leng...

KingVoid

Where was Williams in Malaysia, China, Bahrain, Spain, Monaco, Hungary, Singapore, and a wet Japan? Where was Williams' supposed "pace" in those races? There were plenty of weekends in 2014 where Williams wasn't even anywhere close to being the second best car. Oh, also remember that as soon as rain...

KingVoid

It only looked like he struggled badly because of ricciardo's brilliance. Look at vettels championship position in what was the 3rd best car he was actually pretty solid. Yes, he wasn't sprinkled with stardust like before because his brain was still in EBD mode - hence the chassis changes. 3rd best...

KingVoid

And the problem is that we have little to almost no evidence to conclude that Button is any better or faster than Rosberg over a race distance (Hamilton held a similar advantage over both as teammates, which suggests that in equal cars, they'd be roughly evenly matched). OTOH, there is good, compell...

KingVoid

Wait, did I claim the Brawn GP was capable of winning every race? No, I didn't. I said it was a car "capable of winning races" (evidently, since it did) and that it wasn't Button doing the winning. The "underperforming" part is due to whether you believe Barrichello upped his game or Button dropped...

KingVoid

Button probably has the best race craft of anybody and the fact that the Merc was so dominant would of nullified his flaw in quali. He would still have started second in the majority of races and his superior race craft would of seen him work his way ahead of Rosberg in most. The speed of the Merc ...

KingVoid

Having seen both Rosberg and Button compete against Hamilton in equal machinery, I just don't see or understand how anyone could say that Button would beat Rosberg in equal machinery. It's not uncommon to see Rosberg put around two to three-tenths of breathing space between himself and Hamilton on S...

KingVoid

USA - Williams Japan - Ferrari You have this the wrong way around. In Suzuka, Williams were clearly quicker. Montoya overtook Barrichello easily on the opening lap and was pulling away at a rate of 1 second/lap before he had to retire because of a hydraulics problem. In Indianapolis however, the we...

KingVoid

@mikeyg123 You have a point about Silverstone. After the safety car came out on lap 11 because of the lunatic invading the track, both MSC and JPM had to stack behind their teammates in the pitlane. Order when SC came in on lap 14: 8. Rubens Barrichello 13. Juan-Pablo Montoya 15. Michael Schumacher ...

KingVoid

Only Alonso and Ricciardo. I don't understand why people back Button over Rosberg. Having seen both compete against Hamilton, it's obvious that Rosberg has a clear speed advantage over Button (even if JB is slightly more consistent). Hamilton smashed Button 44-14 in qualifying when they were at McLa...

KingVoid

No, Ferrari was on balance the best car in 2003. Ferrari had better speed than McLaren, and better reliability than Williams. Let's look at each race weekend and pick & choose who had faster car between Williams/Ferrari: Australia: Too difficult to call, this race was messy. Malaysia: Ferrari Brazil...

KingVoid

In 2009, Vettel was 21. Of course he's going to make mistakes at that age - they all do. But to say that Button was faultless and that was the difference isn't really doing justice to reality in my opinion. The second half of the season was just about the biggest choke I've ever seen from a champio...

KingVoid

Personally, I already detected some clues that Vettel might not be anywhere near as good as people thought he was during the 2009-2013 period. In 2009, Red Bull was pretty much on par with Brawn taking the whole season into consideration. Yet his mistakes in Australia, Malaysia, Monaco, Hungary, and...

KingVoid

Australia: McLaren > Red Bull > Ferrari Malaysia: McLaren > Red Bull > Ferrari China: McLaren > Red Bull > Ferrari Bahrain: Red Bull > McLaren > Ferrari Spain: Ferrari > McLaren > Red Bull Monaco: Red Bull > Ferrari > McLaren Canada: All 3 were kind of equal here. Let's give them all 2 points. Vale...

KingVoid

Rosberg is quite underrated, IMO. Rosberg would demolish Button over one lap pace. Rosberg beat Hamilton 10-7 in 2014 (excluding Germany & Hungary), and in return Hamilton beat Button 44-14 on Saturday when they were teammates at McLaren. I've also seen no evidence to suggest that JB is any quicker ...

KingVoid

No, Ferrari was on balance the best car in 2003, kind of like Red Bull in 2012. It was faster than McLaren, and more reliable than BMW-Williams. Ferrari matched Williams in speed overall, and had less reliability problems than either Williams or McLaren. Let's just go race by race to see who had the...

KingVoid

Hello. I'm KingVoid, big fan of F1 from Canada. I support Alonso, Rosberg, and Ferrari as always. I also have a soft spot for Perez. I've been watching F1 since 2002, and have lurked on this forum for some time now before registering.

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