Search found 2069 matches

by Jo_
Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:02 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

First of all, the majority of journalists commenting on this do not have my background or knowledge of these sorts of things. I have no reason to regard their opinion as anything informed. I was, as far as I could tell, the only person who in the lead up to this hearing nailed the arguments that wo...
by Jo_
Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:35 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

First of all, the majority of journalists commenting on this do not have my background or knowledge of these sorts of things. I have no reason to regard their opinion as anything informed. I was, as far as I could tell, the only person who in the lead up to this hearing nailed the arguments that wo...
by Jo_
Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:14 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

You can't actually debate properly, so you call someone else's observation as nonsense, accuse them of bias and lack of common sense... epic! Bias... everyone has some... i worry about those who say they're unbiased and can't confront the truth at times. Why did RBR not use their current car and Fe...
by Jo_
Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:50 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Pirelli had a contract where they could test current cars, but if you had only taken a few seconds to read their testimony, you'd know that they didn't ask for the current car, nor drivers, but Mercedes proposed it. Mercedes was pretty knee deep in poop. Which is why a lot of sites are rather baffl...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:54 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Irrelevant? Perhaps to the court, but hardly irrelevant. There is more than just the context of the IT in this situation. That is what seems to be missing in so many of these discussions. garagetinkerer was referring to what was said in the verdict. Thus my comment related to what is said in there.
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:51 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

You can't actually debate properly, so you call someone else's observation as nonsense, accuse them of bias and lack of common sense... epic! Bias... everyone has some... i worry about those who say they're unbiased and can't confront the truth at times. Why did RBR not use their current car and Fe...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:28 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Pirelli had a contract where they could test current cars, but if you had only taken a few seconds to read their testimony, you'd know that they didn't ask for the current car, nor drivers, but Mercedes proposed it. Mercedes was pretty knee deep in poop. Which is why a lot of sites are rather baffl...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:19 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Perhaps Bernard would have been better off providing separate advice to Merc and Pirelli? We don't know the terms of Pirelli's contract (whether it incorporates the F1 rules and regs), but it seems unlikely to me that Merc would be able to rely on Pirelli's contract to negate the F1 rules and regs ...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:25 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Perhaps Bernard would have been better off providing separate advice to Merc and Pirelli? We don't know the terms of Pirelli's contract (whether it incorporates the F1 rules and regs), but it seems unlikely to me that Merc would be able to rely on Pirelli's contract to negate the F1 rules and regs ...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:19 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

The moment the FIA tried to bring in Pirelli with their Notification of Charges they limited any penalties that could be handed out. The IT claiming jurisdiction was tenuous and they acknowledged that in their verdict. Had they then issued Pirelli with anything other than a reprimand Pirelli would ...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:37 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

The moment the FIA tried to bring in Pirelli with their Notification of Charges they limited any penalties that could be handed out. The IT claiming jurisdiction was tenuous and they acknowledged that in their verdict. Had they then issued Pirelli with anything other than a reprimand Pirelli would ...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:17 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

I keep on thinking that perhaps the tribunal would have only given a reprimand to Merc, but as Merc proposed banning them for YDT, they thought they cannot give a lesser penalty than what Merc asked and accordingly did so. Merc should not have proposed it in the first place..... Yes, I think so, bu...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:00 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Ive just thought of something. I dont imagine it would get them far but you never know.... Does Red Bull/Ferrari as the original protesters to this have the right to appeal the FIA decision? It would make sense if there was a system in place for that to avoid the FIA being able to favor a team. The...
by Jo_
Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:38 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

I keep on thinking that perhaps the tribunal would have only given a reprimand to Merc, but as Merc proposed banning them for YDT, they thought they cannot give a lesser penalty than what Merc asked and accordingly did so. Merc should not have proposed it in the first place..... Yes, I think so, bu...
by Jo_
Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:33 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

A lot of people have been saying this (and it usually comes up whenever a rule is Interoperated' differently by different people). It is a valid point, but what I don't get is if FIA has a team of legal advisors being used for this kind of thing, don't they have the same team of...
by Jo_
Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:12 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: Technicalities - Pirelli agmt for 2014 with BE but not FIA
Replies: 6
Views: 1534

Re: Technicalities - Pirelli agmt for 2014 with BE but not F

Apparently in order for a tyre supplier to secure a contract with the FIA they have to enter into a contract with the commercial rights holder. This was how Pirelli manoeuvred themselves around the tendering process in 2010. They signed with the commercial rights holder and the teams and the FIA rea...
by Jo_
Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:16 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

A lot of people have been saying this (and it usually comes up whenever a rule is Interoperated' differently by different people). It is a valid point, but what I don't get is if FIA has a team of legal advisors being used for this kind of thing, don't they have the same team of lawyers to help the...
by Jo_
Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:45 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.

Speaking of Lawyers, don't you think that the article that Jo wrote a week ago has proved to be remarkably accurate it its' analysis? m Bang on the money I'd say. That was a pretty good article. Hopefully, she goes on to write for better publications/websites than Pitpass. I am insanely proud of my...
by Jo_
Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:23 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

The person you responded to was making a point about the supplier relationship between Pirelli and Mercedes and the issue of the test being a Pirelli test vs a Mercedes test. Your response had absolutely nothing to do with what the person was saying. It was also not constructed as an opinion but as...
by Jo_
Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:40 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: [Rumor] Red Bull using traction control? What do you think?
Replies: 80
Views: 10208

Re: [Rumor] Red Bull using traction control? What do you thi

From Steve Matchett on Twitter: Ok, I've now talked the matter over with Jon Wheatley, Red Bull's team manager: This is what he had to say (well, let's go to my next tweet). "Ok, seen the clip, been through the data and what happened, in chronological order, was 1) High degree of rear wheel sli...
by Jo_
Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:14 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Jo went to great lengths to explain the rules and regulations applying in this instance, and even if I wanted to, I do not believe I would do justice to try and repeat it. But it is all in this thread to read. The matter is a legal one, where transgression of terms of an agreement is the issue. Not...
by Jo_
Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:56 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

OK... so they aren't cheats??? Yet all the other teams got "cheated" by one particular team getting 1000km of testing with their current car and primary team drivers. The other teams did not get this huge advantage. So... if the other teams were "cheated" (and I don't see any ot...
by Jo_
Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:45 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

What part of me saying I was not talking about the culpability of Mercedes and Pirelli but about the relevance of any FIA permission to the situation as considered by the International Tribunal do you not understand? I am discussing something completely different to what you have responded with. Be...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:12 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

(Not that I didn't read it, just easier to remove some of the other stuff for ease of reading.) Yes, FIA permission is not necessarily relevant legally. The FIA can provide an interpretation on what they think is the case, but that doesn't mean it is correct and they cannot just authorise breaches ...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:52 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

OK... so they aren't cheats??? Yet all the other teams got "cheated" by one particular team getting 1000km of testing with their current car and primary team drivers. The other teams did not get this huge advantage. So... if the other teams were "cheated" (and I don't see any ot...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:51 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Calling Brawn a cheat, making as if he is the only person stretching the rules, is very naive, or you do not follow F1 properly. If you want to call stretchers of the rules as cheaters, you would need to place Red Bull at the lead with a huge margin. Just think about all the rules of late to close ...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:30 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: [Rumor] Red Bull using traction control? What do you think?
Replies: 80
Views: 10208

Re: [Rumor] Red Bull using traction control? What do you thi

purchville wrote:9 posts in...

Pretty poor start "rwgordon"

Try harder next time.....

To be fair the poster did say rumour and suggest it was bunk in the OP.
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:28 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: [Rumor] Red Bull using traction control? What do you think?
Replies: 80
Views: 10208

Re: [Rumor] Red Bull using traction control? What do you thi

It's amusing when forums create the news. This was being discussed on another forum a few days ago. I blame Scarbs - he tweeted a link to the topic. The story wouldn't have been as interesting if they'd gone with some of the other suggestions in the thread - "Red Bull car picks up some dust and...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:17 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

tl;dr In other words if anyone told you that you can break any laws, well... you still cannot break them. You would look like an idiot in court with such a excuse. It isn't that simple in Mercedes case, but remember that the protest is made by Ferrari and Red Bull. IT is separate from FIA and don't...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:46 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

tl;dr In other words if anyone told you that you can break any laws, well... you still cannot break them. You would look like an idiot in court with such a excuse. It isn't that simple in Mercedes case, but remember that the protest is made by Ferrari and Red Bull. IT is separate from FIA and don't...
by Jo_
Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:30 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

As the date approaches I’d like to offer my entry in the lottery of analysis and predictions about the outcome of the hearing. In regards to Pirelli, I think the two main questions are: 1. Is Pirelli subject to FIA’s judicial proceedings? 2. Did Pirelli violate FIA’s regulations and/or breach the c...
by Jo_
Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:44 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: FIA Masters Historic Formula One safety question
Replies: 19
Views: 2513

Re: FIA Masters Historic Formula One safety question

I'm guessing that a lot of the safety improvements have been circuit-related: run-offs, tyre barriers designed to transfer the force. So even if drivers do make a mistake or have an accident the impact of it isn't the same. I don't know if they make modifications to the cars, but if they do then eve...
by Jo_
Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:49 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: Horner Gets OBE.
Replies: 39
Views: 4795

Re: Horner Gets OBE.

Joe Saward has details about who else in F1 has various Honours: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/06/ ... ts-a-gong/

I agree with him that overlooking John Barnard and Patrick Head seems wrong.
by Jo_
Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:22 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: Drinking Buddy
Replies: 57
Views: 5821

Re: Drinking Buddy

would NOT want to have a beer with Nigel Mansell - would have to stand his long monologues about how he's so heroic and about how easy is modern F1 Paul Di Resta - no comment needed Mark Webber - don't want to hear him complain about the annoying german kid Fernando Alonso - only because he would b...
by Jo_
Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:54 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Mercedes is a participant... Pirelli is a supplier. Here, a competitor was being given a clear advantage by the supplier, in the case of a team that has folded (essentially, not competing), nobody else is being disadvantaged. Two different scenarios is what i was saying. So no, it is not questionab...
by Jo_
Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:45 am
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Mercedes is a participant... Pirelli is a supplier. Here, a competitor was being given a clear advantage by the supplier, in the case of a team that has folded (essentially, not competing), nobody else is being disadvantaged. Two different scenarios is what i was saying. So no, it is not questionab...
by Jo_
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:54 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Mercedes is a participant... Pirelli is a supplier. Here, a competitor was being given a clear advantage by the supplier, in the case of a team that has folded (essentially, not competing), nobody else is being disadvantaged. Two different scenarios is what i was saying. So no, it is not questionab...
by Jo_
Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:51 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Mercedes is a participant... Pirelli is a supplier. Here, a competitor was being given a clear advantage by the supplier, in the case of a team that has folded (essentially, not competing), nobody else is being disadvantaged. Two different scenarios is what i was saying. So no, it is not questionab...
by Jo_
Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:51 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: Scenerio - Team orders to win WCC or disobey to win WDC
Replies: 31
Views: 3177

Re: Scenerio - Team orders to win WCC or disobey to win WDC

I believe the drivers should obey the teams at all times. So that's my answer. However, if I was the team boss then these would be my orders. Scenario 1: I would tell the driver to race for the WDC in the first place so it wouldn't be an issue. Scenario 2: This type of thing would have been discusse...
by Jo_
Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:25 pm
Forum: F1 & Motorsport Forum
Topic: International Tribunal. discussion and aftermath thread.
Replies: 835
Views: 73127

Re: international tribunal. june 20th. The reprocussions.

Thankyou! No, Pirelli's agreement isn't in the public domain so it can't be checked. The way I see it, though, even IF there is a clause in Pirelli's agreement about adhering to the Regulations that could conflict with other clauses. How can the IT justify adherence to one clause over another or in...