planetf1.com

2018 Group Pick'Em entry form

Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton; Valtteri Bottas; Sebastian Vettel; Kimi Raikkonen; Daniel Ricciardo
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen; Sergio Perez; Esteban Ocon; Nico Hulkenberg; Carlos Sainz
Drivers group 3: Sergey Sirotkin; Lance Stroll; Brendan Hartley; Pierre Gasly; Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Stoffel Vandoorne; Romain Grosjean; Kevin Magnussen; Marcus Ericsson; Charles Leclerc
Please select one driver from each of the four groups.

Teams group 1: Mercedes; Ferrari; Red Bull
Teams group 2: Williams; Force India; Toro Rosso; Renault
Teams group 3: McLaren; Haas; Sauber
Please select one team from each of the three groups.

Team name: (you can leave this blank if you wish and I'll just use your PF1 username as your team name)

You are free to make any changes to your team between now and FP1 in Melbourne. However, please make a new post rather than editing your original post as while I will review all submissions once FP1 begins, it is easier for me to keep track of changes that way.

All entries must be in before the start of FP1 in Australia; any entries after that will not be accepted.

Welcome to the third year of this game. Rules are below, stolen from last year's thread because I'm lazy. Also this should have been the first post but I posted the wrong one first... Sorry.

All-new scoring system
One of the biggest issues last season was that the scoring system was based on its real-life equivalent, which meant that in every race, you had 12 drivers scoring the same number of points: zero. It also meant that selections such as the Saubers and Manors of the F1 world were, at most races, absolutely useless. In a bid to combat this, every driver will score points using the revised system:

1st = 35 points
2nd = 28 points
3rd = 25 points
4th = 22 points
5th = 20 points
6th = 18 points
7th = 16 points
8th = 14 points
9th = 12 points
10th = 11 points
(11th = 10 points; 12th = 9 points; 13th = 8 points; 14th = 7 points; 15th = 6 points; 16th = 5 points; 17th = 4 points; 18th = 3 points; 19th = 2 points; 20th = 1 point)

So I've added 10 points to each of the real-life points to allow us to have them handed out for the rest of the finishers as well. Hopefully this will mean a greater emphasis placed on all selections, not just those at the front of the field. And to reiterate, these points will be awarded regardless of whether a driver actually makes it to the end of the race or not. Otherwise certain teams (*cough* McLaren *cough*) look likely to have so many DNFs that they'll end up scoring about as many points in this new system as Manor and Sauber did in 2016...

Points for teams will be the combined total their two drivers score under this system. So if Hamilton and Bottas are classified 1st and 17th, Mercedes would score 39 points for that race (35 + 4).

All-new transfer system (v2!)

The joker system, while actually not that terrible, was a little limiting. The biggest issue with it was not so much the joker system itself, but the fact that once everybody's selections were locked in for the season, it made it impossible for those with bad predictions to overcome that handicap. Even, say, someone who made awful selections but actually accumulated the most joker points (I wonder who that awesome, handsome person was?!) still finished well down the order. So for 2017 we bid the joker adieu, introducing the following transfer system in its place:

- Everyone starts with 200 transfer points to use however they wish. There is no limit on the number of transfers you can make per race or per group; the only limitation is the 200 points.
- A transfer will be considered final when a race weekend begins (when FP1 goes green). Like last year, a transfer can be requested in advance of a race weekend but cancelled before the weekend begins. However, this must be done in a separate post stating that you now wish to cancel that transfer. Deleting the original post will not be considered a withdrawal of a transfer request because I'm unable to see when posts are deleted (and therefore it would be open to abuse).
- A driver's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WDC. Whichever driver is first in the WDC costs 20 points to transfer; the driver in 2nd costs 19 points to transfer; the driver in 3rd costs 18 points to transfer; and so on down to the driver in 20th, who costs just 1 point to transfer.
- A team's transfer value is dictated by their standing in the WCC. Whichever team is first in the WCC costs 40 points to transfer; the team in 2nd costs 36 points to transfer; and so on down to the team in 10th, which costs 4 points to transfer.
- When you transfer a driver/team out of your selections, you do not receive their value back in additional points. There are also no additional points on offer for not making transfers (as there were in the previous transfer rules).
- At the end of the season, any transfer points you have remaining will be added to your overall score, with the exception of 'inactive' teams. A team will be considered 'inactive' if four consecutive races pass without the team's manager posting in this thread at least once. Any team which suffers three such inactive periods will not have remaining transfer points added to their overall score. This is mainly to avoid a situation whereby someone signs up, doesn't come back to the thread all season, and then receives a 200-point bonus by virtue of having made no transfers.
- No transfers will be permitted until after the third race of the season (China). This is to try and avoid a situation where misfortune in the opening rounds results in a driver/team being significantly less expensive than they otherwise would be. It is also to ensure extra weight is attached to everyone's initial picks.

And... actually, that is it as far as the changes go. To be fair, it wasn't a particularly complex game in 2016 and I didn't want to change that for 2017. I did consider continuing the joker system alongside the transfer system, but I was a little worried it might all get a bit overcomplicated. Which brings us nicely onto:

2018 Groups

You need to make one selection from each group, so you end up with four drivers and three teams.

As you can see, we're running four groups of drivers and three groups of teams, as opposed to the six/four we had in 2016. This is partly to reflect the fact that Manor's demise has reduced the grid by a team, but also to (hopefully) mix up the selections a little more. More groups = smaller groups = less variation in selections. This is probably the most challenging aspect of the game from my perspective as I can only really go off of testing/speculation as to the competitiveness of the teams, so there is always the chance there are clear favourites in each group. Again, though, I'm hopeful that by extending the points system it'll limit that as much as possible. I did consider the possibility of moving drivers/teams around after a few races to reflect the actual pecking order, but I would expect that to end up becoming a huge mess so I'm going to leave the groups as they are for the year.

What If...

This was a pretty useful section to have last year so I'm including it again.

What if one of my selections is replaced by a driver not on the grid? For example, one of my selections gets sick of his GP2 - sorry, FIA F2 - engine and decides to quit F1? (Sorry, Jenson). Or one of my drivers is unable to take part in a race due to injury/suspension? Then you will receive any points scored by the replacement for as long as they continue to replace the original selection. You would, of course, be able to transfer out the replacement for another driver in that group.
What if the aforementioned F2 engine suddenly improved and the disgruntled Spaniard decided, actually, he quite fancied racing in F1 again? (Sorry, Jenson). Well if you hadn't transferred out his replacement, you would revert back to having Alonso in your team. If you had transferred out his replacement then you would continue with the driver you transferred into your team, but would be able to transfer Alonso back in upon his return if you wanted.
What if we have a repeat of 2016 whereby one driver on the grid swaps seats with another driver on the grid, like Max Verstappen and Daniil Kvyat? Using 2016 as an example, from the moment Red Bull promoted Verstappen, anyone who had originally selected Kvyat began scoring whatever points Verstappen scored, whilst those who had originally selected Verstappen started scoring the points Kvyat scored. Essentially, it is treated as a driver being replaced so as not to unbalance my carefully crafted driver groups! Of course, the big difference in 2017 is you can transfer out one (or both) drivers involved in a swap if you wished.
What if a driver and/or team is excluded from the result of a race? I won't post the results for a race until, at the earliest, Monday afternoon, and they'll usually come later in the week as it takes a little time to write it all up. So hopefully any exclusions will have been made very clear by that point. However, if a driver/team is under investigation when I post the results then they will remain unofficial until that investigation has been concluded and it all becomes official.
What if a driver or team I've selected is excluded from the overall standings, such as Schumi in '97 or McLaren in '07? I would follow the FIA's lead on this one. If they allow the driver/team to retain the points they've scored then I will do the same. If, like McLaren in 2007, the team is banned from scoring constructors points but the drivers are still awarded points towards the WDC then that would be what we would do here. Basically, whatever the FIA decide in such a scenario would be what I would do.
What if I want to make a transfer for the next race, but FP1 had already begun? I'm going to be very clear on this: no transfers will be accepted once FP1 has commenced. As I will not always be online at that moment, I will take the timestamp on any post made as a means to determine whether a transfer is permitted or not. So if FP1 is scheduled to begin at 9am GMT, if a transfer post was made at 8:59am GMT then it would be accepted; if it were made at 9:00am GMT then I will assume FP1 has commenced and it would be rejected. Of course, if the start of FP1 is delayed then I would do my best to find the exact time it began and use that time as the deadline for transfers.
What if something that hasn't been covered here happens? In that case I would put it to a vote whereby the majority would rule. I would try to run any poll for a week but if it were something that needed to be determined for the next race weekend, I would set a deadline of the start of FP1.
What if a 21st driver takes part in a race; how does that affect the transfer point costs? In that scenario, the 21st driver would, by virtue of being bottom of the WDC standings, have a value of 1 point. Every other position in the WDC would therefore see its value increased by 1 transfer point, so 1st in the WDC would cost 21 points, 2nd in the WDC would cost 20 points, and so on down to 20th, who would now cost 2 transfer points.
What if two new drivers take part in the season from the same race? We would extend the scoring as above, just by two places this time. In terms of how the values of those two drivers would be determined, as I assume neither would be officially ranked in the WDC standings until they had taken part in a race, whichever was officially confirmed for their season debut first would be deemed to be higher in the WDC standings and therefore would cost the additional transfer point.

Full Transfer Point Costs
WDC/WCC position: Driver/Team
1st: 20/40
2nd: 19/36
3rd: 18/32
4th: 17/28
5th: 16/24
6th: 15/20
7th: 14/16
8th: 13/12
9th: 12/8
10th: 11/4
11th: 10
12th: 9
13th: 8
14th: 7
15th: 6
16th: 5
17th: 4
18th: 3
19th: 2
20th: 1

Any glaring mistakes, please let me know. I'm new to running this game, so please bear with me!

It would probably be much wiser of me to not enter this competition again for 2018, but how can I pass up the opportunity to pick up a third consecutive 13th place?

Cheers for resurrecting the game, even if it's one where I'm historically extremely uncompetitive. The only thing I'd point out is that the groups should probably be re-arranged at least a little; they're supposed to be reflective of choices between teams or drivers that are expected to be close calls, and (for example) McLaren in group #3 with Sauber won't have anyone at all picking Sauber. Or maybe that's just my optimism as a McLaren fan shining through!

Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Romain Grosjean

Teams group 1: Mercedes
Teams group 2: Renault
Teams group 3: McLaren

Team Name: Herb GP

I'm surprised that Kimi is in group 1, but Max is in group 2. Thought they'd be the other way round.

Hamilton
Verstappen
Alonso
Grosjean

Mercedes
Renault
Haas

No idea why Verstappen is in a group with the two Force India and two Renault drivers. No one is going to pick anyone but him. Same with Alonso and the two Toro Rosso/Williams drivers. As hard as it is to balance the groups (I know this first-hand!) it is a lot easier if you don't split drivers from the same team over two different groups, even if it means having some groups with more drivers than other groups. FWIW (not much given I'm not running the game anymore!) I'd have arranged them like this for 2018:

Hamilton/Bottas
Vettel/Raikkonen/Ricciardo/Verstappen
Sainz/Hulkenberg/Alonso/Vandoorne/Grosjean/Magnussen/Perez/Ocon
Gasly/Hartley/Sirotkin/Stroll/Leclerc/Ericsson

Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull
Renault/McLaren/Force India/Haas
Toro Rosso/Williams/Sauber

Groups were assembled on the basis of team results last year, hence the odd ones. Also didn't want an an uneven number of drivers in the groups because then some groups would have the problem (that group 2 probably does anyway) that variety would be limited.

McLaren are also as far down as they are because their reliability problems in testing mean they're a total unknown for this year, although Haas and Sauber are likely not as weak as their ranking here suggests.

My choices:

Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Stoffel Vandoorne

Teams group 1: Mercedes
Teams group 2: Renault
Teams group 3: McLaren

Forgot to name the team! Team Rank Amateur, at your service. Considered something ruder, but then I'd have to ban myself for abusing a mod.

P-F1 Mod wrote:Groups were assembled on the basis of team results last year, hence the odd ones. Also didn't want an an uneven number of drivers in the groups because then some groups would have the problem (that group 2 probably does anyway) that variety would be limited.

McLaren are also as far down as they are because their reliability problems in testing mean they're a total unknown for this year, although Haas and Sauber are likely not as weak as their ranking here suggests.

My choices:

Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Stoffel Vandoorne

Teams group 1: Mercedes
Teams group 2: Renault
Teams group 3: McLaren

Max is going to be the only guy anyone selects from group 2 so while I do get what you're saying, in this instance by trying to encourage variety all you're doing is drastically reducing it.

As I said, I know from experience how hard it is to determine the groupings. It's very much based on one person's view of testing and how they perceive the order to be, and we don't even have the benefit of the insider knowledge that F1 teams (for example) have to better inform that perception. But splitting drivers from one team across two groups is a bad idea as it can just mean half the groups being dominated by drivers from one team. Not only that but by having them in two different groups you don't even have the dilemma of picking one or the other and the variety that comes with that choice.

Team "Sat on the Fence"


Drivers group 1: Sebastian Vettel
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Romain Grosjean


Teams group 1: Mercedes
Teams group 2: Renault
Teams group 3: Haas

Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Stoffel Vandoorne

Teams group 1: Red Bull
Teams group 2: Renault
Teams group 3: McLaren

Team name: Infiniti Infinity Racing Limited

Driver 1: hamilton
Driver 2: versteppen
Driver 3: alonso
Driver 4: grosjean

Team 1: mercedes
Team 2: renault
Team 3: haas

Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso, Leclerc [gotta take some risks, right?]
Mercedes, Renault, Sauber [OK, I've probably pushed my luck too far on that one...]

Team name: Eat My Dust Racing! [I tried to think up a funny acronym to expand this name - if I do think of one later, will amend. Although something tells me P-F1 Mod might use the initials if I do that!

I let my ex use my account for predictions last year, but now I'm back and here to beat her scores. Not that she participated in much, or saw out the year, which makes my job a bit easier!

Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers Group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers Group 4: Romain Grosjean

Teams Group 1: Mercedes
Teams Group 2: Renault
Teams Group 3: Mclaren

DG1 - Hamilton
DG2 - Verstappen
DG3 - Alonso
DG4 - Grosjean

TG1 - Mercedes
TG2 - Renault
TG3 - McLaren

Team name - KC Grand Prix

Ah, I was looking to try this one again this year, but I only saw the thread just now. Good luck, everyone!

Still compete if you like, you'll only lose one race

P-F1 Mod wrote:Still compete if you like, you'll only lose one race

Thanks, will do!




Drivers group 1: Lewis Hamilton
Drivers group 2: Max Verstappen
Drivers group 3: Fernando Alonso
Drivers group 4: Romain Grosjean

Teams group 1: Red Bull
Teams group 2: Renault
Teams group 3: McLaren

Team name: Phoenix Racing

Assuming no penalties, here's the order after round 1:

1 - RANK AMATEUR 179
2 - INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED 177
3 - HERB GP 172
3 - ICEMANJEE1 172
3 - KC GRAND PRIX 172
6 - TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE 156
7 - EAT MY DUST RACING 153
8 - JENSON'S UNDERSTEER 149
8 - MAYHEM 149
10 - PHOENIX RACING 0*

*Failed to make 107% in qualifying, not permitted to start the race.

Coach ive been cut already ?

Mayhem wrote:Coach ive been cut already ?

...Oops, bear with me! Sorry!

P-F1 Mod wrote:

Mayhem wrote:Coach ive been cut already ?

...Oops, bear with me! Sorry!

No worries, had me wondering if i had forgotten to submit my picks lol

P-F1 Mod wrote:2 - INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED 177

#BelieveInMcLaren is paying off already!

Well. At least someone wound up eating my dust!

It's amusing how bad I am at a game I wrote the rules for

Jenson's Understeer wrote:It's amusing how bad I am at a game I wrote the rules for

It still boils down to your skill at predictions, more than playing the rules to your advantage. I'm more amazed that I'm winning. I'm currently investigating myself for rigging the tournament

A little question, can I still enter for later events even though I missed the first one?

whitewolfarctic wrote:A little question, can I still enter for later events even though I missed the first one?

P-F1 Mod wrote:Still compete if you like, you'll only lose one race

you can still enter. you would be missing 2 races since the cutoff has passed for this weekend

you can also still enter the pick 3 as the deadline is before fp3 and everyone is at zero score.

you can also still join the autosport gp predictor http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14850 just make sure you post your team name in the thread. With a good round you can catch right up with the bonus points!!!

Definitely, whitewolfarctic. The more, the merrier

BAHRAIN RACE RESULTS

TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE - 170
RANK AMATEUR - 168
HERB GP - 162
ICEMANJEE1 - 162
KC GRAND PRIX - 162
JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 160
MAYHEM - 160
EAT MY DUST RACING - 154
INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED - 118
PHOENIX RACING - 112

CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS [these include transfer points]

1 - RANK AMATEUR - 547
2 - HERB GP - 534
2 - ICEMANJEE1 - 534
2 - KC GRAND PRIX - 534
5 - TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE - 526
6 - JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 509
6 - MAYHEM - 509
8 - EAT MY DUST RACING - 507
9 - INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED - 495
10 - PHOENIX RACING - 312

[Updated to reflect Perez's and Hartley's penalties]

I shall swap Grosjean for Kevin 'suck my balls' Magnussen.

Noted, will add your fine after China since the change happens for Baku.

P-F1 Mod wrote:Noted, will add your fine after China since the change happens for Baku.

Heh, I forgot about that rule. I might yet change my mind before China then.

Hence the delay in the fine - plus WDC position may change.

Sorry for the delay.

Results from China:

INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED - 175
PHOENIX RACING - 171
RANK AMATEUR - 170
HERB GP - 166
ICEMANJEE1 - 166
KC GRAND PRIX - 166
JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 157
MAYHEM - 157
TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE - 149
EAT MY DUST RACING - 147

CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS AFTER 3 ROUNDS:

1 - RANK AMATEUR - 717
2 - HERB GP - 700
2 - ICEMANJEE1 - 700
2 - KC GRAND PRIX - 700
5 - TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE - 675
6 - INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED - 670
7 - JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 666
7 - MAYHEM - 666
9 - EAT MY DUST RACING - 654
10 - PHOENIX RACING - 483

WDC ORDER [AS PER COST FOR TRANSFER]
20pts - VET
19pts - HAM
18pts - BOT
17pts - RIC
16pts - RAI
15pts - ALO
14pts - HUL
13pts - VER
12pts - GAS
11pts - MAG
10pts - VAN
9pts - SAI
8pts - ERI
7pts - OCO
6pts - PER
5pts - LEC
4pts - HAR
3pts - STR
2pts - GRO
1pt - SIR

WCC ORDER

40pts - MERCEDES
36pts - FERRARI
32pts - RED BULL
28pts - McLAREN
24pts - RENAULT
20pts - TORO ROSSO
16pts - HAAS
12pts - SAUBER
8pts - FORCE INDIA
4pts - WILLIAMS

So far I have Jenson's Understeer swapping Grosjean for Magnussen at cost 11 points for Baku.

I'll do the Grosjean -> Magnussen swap too please!

I, however, am going to go the other way, and trade Vandoorne for Grosjean while RoGro is cheap!

Those are all noted - please make a new post before FP1 with any further changes (or to undo any).

I'm going to take the hit and swap Sauber for McLaren...

BAKU RESULTS

EAT MY DUST RACING - 167
RANK AMATEUR - 161
HERB GP - 157
ICEMANJEE1 - 155
KC GRAND PRIX - 155
JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 143
MAYHEM - 141
TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE - 128
INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED - 124
PHOENIX RACING - 122

CHAMPIONSHIP STANDINGS

1: RANK AMATEUR - 878 [1Win, 0Transfers]
2: ICEMANJEE1 - 855 [0Wins, 0Transfers]
2: KC GRAND PRIX - 855 [0Wins, 0Transfers]
4: HERB GP - 846 [0Wins, 1Transfer - 11Pts]
5: MAYHEM - 807 [0Wins, 0Transfers]
6: TEAM SAT ON THE FENCE - 803 [1Win, 0Transfers]
7: JENSON'S UNDERSTEER - 798 [0Wins, 1 Transfer - 11Pts]
8: EAT MY DUST RACING - 793 [1Win, 1Transfer - 28Pts]
9: INFINITI INFINITY RACING LIMITED - 792 [1Win, 1Transfer - 2Pts]
10: PHOENIX RACING - 605 [0Wins, 0Transfers]

WDC ORDER [AS PER COST FOR TRANSFER]
20pts - HAM
19pts - VET
18pts - RAI
17pts - BOT
16pts - RIC
15pts - ALO
14pts - HUL
13pts - VER
12pts - PER
11pts - SAI
10pts - GAS
9pts - MAG
8pts - LEC
7pts - VAN
6pts - STR
5pts - ERI
4pts - OCO
3pts - HAR
2pts - GRO
1pt - SIR

WCC ORDER

40pts - FERRARI
36pts - MERCEDES
32pts - RED BULL
28pts - McLAREN
24pts - RENAULT
20pts - FORCE INDIA
16pts - TORO ROSSO
12pts - HAAS
8pts - SAUBER
4pts - WILLIAMS

Everyone has at least 189 transfer points remaining, so it's still wide open. That 4 different contenders have won the first 4 races shows how close this season is - and I bet Tufty is pleased to win after that expensive transfer for Baku.