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Which driver won each intrateam battle at Mexico?
Poll ended at Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:53 pm
Hamilton 10%  10%  [ 24 ]
Bottas 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Vettel 8%  8%  [ 20 ]
Leclerc 2%  2%  [ 6 ]
Verstappen 2%  2%  [ 5 ]
Albon 9%  9%  [ 22 ]
Ricciardo 10%  10%  [ 25 ]
Hulkenberg 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Magnussen 9%  9%  [ 21 ]
Grosjean 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Sainz 7%  7%  [ 17 ]
Norris 2%  2%  [ 6 ]
Perez 11%  11%  [ 26 ]
Stroll 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Raikkonen 8%  8%  [ 19 ]
Giovinazzi 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
Gasly 5%  5%  [ 12 ]
Kvyat 4%  4%  [ 10 ]
Russell 6%  6%  [ 16 ]
Kubica 4%  4%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 247
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:53 pm 
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The result from the Japanese vote is as follows:

Image

Mercedes
TMW race winner: Bottas (89%)
Hamilton 13 - 4 Bottas
Hamilton 72% - 28% Bottas

It's been a while - eight races, in fact - but Valtteri Bottas has finally returned to winning ways both on the track and in the PF1 TMW vote as well. While Lewis has long had the vote for the season tied up, Bottas now has four races to try and surpass his not particularly great total of four TMW wins from 2018, and is still in with a shout of improving his percentage for the season (which was 29% last year). Either way, it has been another very similar year at Mercedes, which suggests that 2020 will follow the same pattern.

Ferrari
TMW race winner: Vettel (95%)
Vettel 10 - 7 Leclerc
Vettel 47% - 53% Leclerc

There is now a little daylight between Vettel and Leclerc courtesy of Vettel's most dominant TMW performance since Germany. It gives him a 10-7 advantage for the season and means that he can secure the honours for the season with victory in this week's vote. The percentage could still go either way with just 31 votes separating the two Ferrari drivers for the year.

Red Bull
TMW race winner: Albon (60%)
Verstappen 2 - 3 Albon
Verstappen 40% - 60% Albon

The surprise of the season? That after five races as teammates, Alex Albon re-assumes the lead (3-2) with a percentage to perfectly mirror that scoreline. While some (okay, a lot) of this is inevitably down to a bit of a downturn in Max's driving, specifically his ability to stay out of trouble, Alex Albon has generally made his mistakes prior to the race and been able to put in steady performances on Sunday, benefitting from Max's own self-destruction.

Renault
TMW race winner: Ricciardo (83%)
Ricciardo 13 - 4 Hulkenberg
Ricciardo 59% - 41% Hulkenberg

And to think, it all started so well for Nico Hulkenberg. The German was 2-0 up after the first two races, and even after Daniel Ricciardo put together a string of eight consecutive TMW wins, Nico hit back with two of his own in Germany and Hungary. But that is as good as it got with Daniel rattling off a further five wins in a row, leaving him well and truly ahead, and arguably justifying Renault's decision to drop the Hulk.

Haas
TMW race winner: TIE!
Magnussen 12 - 4 Grosjean
Magnussen 63% - 37% Grosjean

TIE ALERT CLAXON! After 16 races and 160 individual votes in favour of one driver or the other, round 17 has brought us that oh-so-rare occurrence of a TMW vote ending level. It's the first of the season and only the fifth occasion it has happened in the nearly two seasons I've been doing these threads. It also means that Romain Grosjean will definitely finish 2019 with a worse TMW record than he did in 2018, where the score for the Haas pair was 12-9 in Kevin Magnussen's favour. This is despite actually taking a slightly larger chunk of the votes (37% in 2019 compared to 35% over the whole 2018 season).

McLaren
TMW race winner: Sainz (100%)
Sainz 11 - 6 Norris
Sainz 53% - 47% Norris

The man who is perceived to have had the best season outside of the big three teams, Carlos Sainz, can now go ahead and celebrate it by virtue of taking the TMW honours for 2019. A second 18-0 victory of the year sees him move five wins clear of his rookie teammate, as well as pushing the percentage in his favour a little more in the process. He's likely to finish 7th in the WDC once the current Red Bull driver switches places with the ex-Red Bull driver in the standings, and has been a significant part of McLaren's move back up the standings. All in all a pretty good year for Sainz, whose reputation had seemed to take a little dent alongside Nico Hulkenberg. What a difference a year makes...

Racing Point
TMW race winner: Perez (94%)
Perez 14 - 3 Stroll
Perez 66% - 34% Stroll

With Valtteri Bottas taking the TMW victory in Japan, it means Sergio Perez is left as one of just three drivers to have taken 14 or more TMW wins in 2019. Another one came in Japan, eclipsing his previous best run of five successive TMW wins.

Alfa Romeo
TMW race winner: Raikkonen (65%)
Raikkonen 14 - 3 Giovinazzi
Raikkonen 83% - 17% Giovinazzi

Also enjoying a 14-3 lead for 2019 is the evergreen Kimi Raikkonen who, after Antonio Giovinazzi put together back-to-back TMW wins, has responded by reasserting his dominance at the Swiss team. Raikkonen could end the year with not only the most TMW wins, but also the highest percentage of votes out of those teammates who contested the whole season, something he currently trails George Russell on.

Toro Rosso
TMW race winner: Gasly (76%)
Gasly 2 - 3 Kvyat
Gasly 42% - 58% Kvyat

The topsy-turvy Toro Rosso battle takes another twist as Pierre Gasly takes a comfortable TMW victory in Japan, pulling himself back to within one TMW win of the Torpedo. Interestingly, Daniil Kvyat still has a higher % of the vote against Pierre Gasly than he did against Alex Albon, albeit only by a single percent. Could the Russian driver finish 2019 with good results against both contenders for the second Red Bull seat, yet not even get a look in himself?

Williams
TMW race winner: Russell (100%)
Russell 15 - 2 Kubica
Russell 86% - 14% Kubica

George Russell, TMW win, 100% of the vote, blah, blah, blah.

TMW winners so far:

Max Verstappen over Pierre Gasly (12-0, 97%)
Daniil Kvyat over Alex Albon (6-6, 57%)
Kimi Raikkonen over Antonio Giovinazzi
George Russell over Robert Kubica
Lewis Hamilton over Valtteri Bottas
Sergio Perez over Lance Stroll
Daniel Ricciardo over Nico Hulkenberg
Kevin Magnussen over Romain Grosjean
Carlos Sainz over Lando Norris

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Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x8
2019: 11th | 2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:25 pm 
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JU,
As always, thanks for doing these polls.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:48 pm 
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The easy ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Not by a huge margin, but just better throughout the weekend. Bottas recovered impressively from looking genuinely awful on Friday, however.
Albon over Verstappen -- This is a defeat purely of Max's own making. He threw away his own banked pole lap by speeding through yellows, and he showed an absolute lack of patience in making up those places in the race.
Ricciardo over Hulkenberg -- A little off in qualifying by his own admission, but back to his usual form in the race.
Perez over Stroll -- And it wasn't close this time.
Gasly over Kvyat -- He didn't smash into someone at the final corner and ruin his own race.
Magnussen over Grosjean -- The car looked pretty dire this weekend, but KMag started ahead and finished ahead.

And now for the harder and/or controversial calls:

Leclerc over Vettel -- I'm not expecting to get a lot of agreement on this one, but I think Charles lost this teammate battle due to strategy and a sloppy pitstop. He made one mistake on his own, but he was put in a position where he had to push to a level where that mistake came in.
Sainz over Norris -- I'm honestly reluctant to give this one to Sainz, because he was slow on the hard tyre. But he qualified ahead and was leading Norris at the last time you could compare them, so giving it to Norris would be purely speculative.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- He qualified ahead, and I'm honestly not sure what was going on in their races before Kimi retired.
Kubica over Russell -- On the basis that he was leading their scrap until he had to make an extra stop for a slow puncture. Maybe a little bit of a sympathy vote.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017 & 2019
[b]AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:10 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
The easy ones:

Hamilton over Bottas -- Not by a huge margin, but just better throughout the weekend. Bottas recovered impressively from looking genuinely awful on Friday, however.
Albon over Verstappen -- This is a defeat purely of Max's own making. He threw away his own banked pole lap by speeding through yellows, and he showed an absolute lack of patience in making up those places in the race.
Ricciardo over Hulkenberg -- A little off in qualifying by his own admission, but back to his usual form in the race.
Perez over Stroll -- And it wasn't close this time.
Gasly over Kvyat -- He didn't smash into someone at the final corner and ruin his own race.
Magnussen over Grosjean -- The car looked pretty dire this weekend, but KMag started ahead and finished ahead.

And now for the harder and/or controversial calls:

Leclerc over Vettel -- I'm not expecting to get a lot of agreement on this one, but I think Charles lost this teammate battle due to strategy and a sloppy pitstop. He made one mistake on his own, but he was put in a position where he had to push to a level where that mistake came in.
Sainz over Norris -- I'm honestly reluctant to give this one to Sainz, because he was slow on the hard tyre. But he qualified ahead and was leading Norris at the last time you could compare them, so giving it to Norris would be purely speculative.
Raikkonen over Giovinazzi -- He qualified ahead, and I'm honestly not sure what was going on in their races before Kimi retired.
Kubica over Russell -- On the basis that he was leading their scrap until he had to make an extra stop for a slow puncture. Maybe a little bit of a sympathy vote.


:thumbup:
Sport on.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:55 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
JU,
As always, thanks for doing these polls.

+1

Thank you JU


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:21 pm 
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Sorry for going on about Grosjean and Magnussen again, but i think this has to be the most inaccurte of any or the team mate wars. Obviously it will be down to us lot voting though. I just can't see any reason for Grosjean being worse than last year let alone be worse than Magnussen this year overall. Grosjean has had 7 retirements this year. That is simply shocking bad luck. None other than silvestone could be considered his fault and even that was concidered to be Magnussen's by most. I think the reason why Magnussen often gets the vote over him when it is harder to judge is either beacsue he has a slight qualifying advantage, or Grosjean just gets based on his poor reputation. I don't think he's been given any penalties during races this year if I am correct. The car is poor, and he isn't great either, but he is overall doing better than Magnussen quite clearly IMO.


Here is a list of the races they both finished. The statistics should show why I am so puzzled.

China - Grosjean ahead by 6 seconds and 2 positions.

Spain - Magnussen ahead by 6 seconds and 3 positions. Now this one was a little bit lucky for Magnussen, but Grosjean does have himself to blame too. Before the safety car, he was 2 positions and over 12 seconds ahead of Magnussen. He did not make the best of restarts but as i said, he had himself to blame for that. Still a bit unlucky though. Most of the weekend, he had outperformed Magnussen.

Monaco - Grosjean ahead by just under 30 seconds and 4 positions. Now Magnussen didn't get an ideal strategy, but he started well ahead of Grosjean. Grosjean was not at fault for his starting position - that was Gasly. Strategy won't have made the gap this big. Magnussen was very poor on race day.

Canada - Grosjean ahead by 3 positions and 65 seconds.

Austria - Grosjean ahead by 3 positions and 60 seconds.

Germany - Grosjean ahead by 1 position and just under 2 seconds for once. This was close.

Belgium - Magnussen ahead by 7 seconds. This was an interesting. Both drivers had awful stints this race. Magnussen at the start and Grosjean at the end. Grosjean only had a couple of laps left and Magnussen had caught up to him. The blue flags seemed to effect grosjean more than magnussen as he made more effort to steer clear and Magnussen too advantage of this. He in the end beat him, but it was a bit of an easy way to pass and not exacly a good way to win the battle. Grosjean did ask to retire the car so I'm not sure if there was issues with it at the end.

Singapore - Grosjean by 6 positions and 50 seconds. Now this one Magnussen most certainly deserved to win. I can't remember exactly what his issue was, but before he had to box for soem reason near the end, he was a good 15 seconds ahead of Grosjean.

Japan - Grosjean by 2 positions 22 seconds.

Mexico - Magnussen by 2 positions and 50 seconds - the only time both have finished and magnussen clearly dominated Grosjean. I give Magnussen a lot of credit for this one as Williams were actually hopefull of beating them this weekend. If Kubica didn't have his issues, both will haev beaten Grosjean. I don't think Grosjean was even that bad, the car was and Magnussen performed really well to finish that far ahead of Russels IMO.





So looking at the results from the races they both finish (only 10 out of 18) and ignoring the points, in terms of team mate wars - Grosjean has beaten magnussen 7 out of 10 times! If you adjust this and give Magnussen his deserved win in singapore, this is still 6 - 4 for Grosjean. And Grosjean has finished ahead by massive margins 4 times, two of them being over a minute. Magnussen has the points advantage mainly because Grosjean has been unlucky at the races he's retired at while Hass were strong. There have only been 2 races this year in the race where both finished where Magnussen had had very obvious upper hand over Grosjean. It has normally been the other way round, and often by a huge margin.

I don't want to sound like I am against the effort that has gone into creating these polls at all. I just think the results for this one are rather strange.


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:27 pm 
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Do you know that Magnussen and Grosjean have been driving completely different cars for most of the year?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Do you know that Magnussen and Grosjean have been driving completely different cars for most of the year?

Yes, i was aware there was some differences, but not many gave this as a reason for voting their chosen driver. Even if it made a difference, I still can't see why Magnussen has won this already.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:39 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Do you know that Magnussen and Grosjean have been driving completely different cars for most of the year?

Yes, i was aware there was some differences, but not many gave this as a reason for voting their chosen driver. Even if it made a difference, I still can't see why Magnussen has won this already.


TBH with you I think it's just Haas has been totally forgettable so Grosjean's gaffs like crashing in the pit lane in France disproportionately stands out.

In reality we can't accurately compare them to each other. They aren't driving the same car.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:26 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Do you know that Magnussen and Grosjean have been driving completely different cars for most of the year?

Yes, i was aware there was some differences, but not many gave this as a reason for voting their chosen driver. Even if it made a difference, I still can't see why Magnussen has won this already.


TBH with you I think it's just Haas has been totally forgettable so Grosjean's gaffs like crashing in the pit lane in France disproportionately stands out.

In reality we can't accurately compare them to each other. They aren't driving the same car.


Your first point about Grosjean could well be true. Although it was in britain not france. That was a very silly mistake. But it was practice. Hamilton has crashed in practice this year. It really isn't that big of a deal. And more recently both cars have had the same parts from what i am aware. I thought it was only just after Grosjean crashed in britain that he went back to old speck. Then they had a few experiments with both drivers with different parts. But am pretty sure it has been the same for both for a while now. I will see if i can find the article on a site, but i am sure i remember gunter confirming what they were using and i think it was the same for both. And before this, in Austria / Canada (the 2 races where Grosjean beat Magnussen by over a minute), that was before Grosjean had crashed, gone back to the old speck and found it was a bit better.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:58 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TBH with you I think it's just Haas has been totally forgettable so Grosjean's gaffs like crashing in the pit lane in France disproportionately stands out.

There's a lot of truth to this. I rarely notice either car in the races, so I have a very strong tendency to vote for whoever finished and/or qualified ahead without the attention to detail I might otherwise use. Same for Williams.

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PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017 & 2019
[b]AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion


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