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Ye, Max might have just landed himself in hot water with his belligerence. I reckon he can still win the race from 6th BTW.

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:No surprises there then, rules not applying to golden boy max - hope karma hits him hard tomorrow

Precedent now that you don't need to slow for DOUBLE yellows unless your surname doesn't start with V

You didn't see Bottas do it in Monza then?

Yeah I did and thought he should have been penalised also

Can't imagine Freddy van Buren wanting to give him a penalty LOL

FormulaFun wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:No surprises there then, rules not applying to golden boy max - hope karma hits him hard tomorrow

Precedent now that you don't need to slow for DOUBLE yellows unless your surname doesn't start with V

You didn't see Bottas do it in Monza then?

Yeah I did and thought he should have been penalised also

Then your post doesn't make any sense if you know Bottas has already gotten away with it.

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:No surprises there then, rules not applying to golden boy max - hope karma hits him hard tomorrow

Precedent now that you don't need to slow for DOUBLE yellows unless your surname doesn't start with V

You didn't see Bottas do it in Monza then?

Yeah I did and thought he should have been penalised also

Then your post doesn't make any sense if you know Bottas has already gotten away with it.

Are you.going to ask everyone the same thing who comments on what is an obvious risk to safety? I don't like to play the bianchi card but people found flat out in double waved yellow zones WILL end up sooner or later with someone getting killed... They don't have flags for no reason.

I don't really understand what you're trying to even establish?? Are you saying he's done nothing wrong?

The guy sets a track record, purple sector, through a DOUBLE waved yellow, with a heavy crash and no run off on the outside of a highspeed corner and debris on the track he then admits he saw the incident and laughs as he says he didn't lift off, his team principle then lies and says there were no yellow flags out when there literally was one right there - this is indefensible, he's literally laughing in the stewards faces

Actually, I only see a single waved yellow, but that might be me.

FormulaFun wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:No surprises there then, rules not applying to golden boy max - hope karma hits him hard tomorrow

Precedent now that you don't need to slow for DOUBLE yellows unless your surname doesn't start with V

You didn't see Bottas do it in Monza then?

Yeah I did and thought he should have been penalised also

Then your post doesn't make any sense if you know Bottas has already gotten away with it.

Are you.going to ask everyone the same thing who comments on what is an obvious risk to safety? I don't like to play the bianchi card but people found flat out in double waved yellow zones WILL end up sooner or later with someone getting killed... They don't have flags for no reason.

I don't really understand what you're trying to even establish?? Are you saying he's done nothing wrong?

The guy sets a track record, purple sector, through a DOUBLE waved yellow, with a heavy crash and no run off on the outside of a highspeed corner and debris on the track he then admits he saw the incident and laughs as he says he didn't lift off, his team principle then lies and says there were no yellow flags out when there literally was one right there - this is indefensible, he's literally laughing in the stewards faces

Nope. I just get annoyed at the golden boy stuff whilst Bottas has gotten away with that in the past with little comment. Bottas getting away with it proves the golden boy stuff isn't true.

Slam dunk penalty IMO. Everytime we get Leclerc and Verstappen at the front, we hear about them being the future of F1. Both are extremely exciting talents, but both have shown a bit of a cavalier attitude to the safety of their fellow drivers this season at various points.

BMWSauber84 wrote:Slam dunk penalty IMO. Everytime we get Leclerc and Verstappen at the front, we hear about them being the future of F1. Both are extremely exciting talents, but both have shown a bit of a cavalier attitude to the safety of their fellow drivers this season at various points.

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
You didn't see Bottas do it in Monza then?

Yeah I did and thought he should have been penalised also

Then your post doesn't make any sense if you know Bottas has already gotten away with it.

Are you.going to ask everyone the same thing who comments on what is an obvious risk to safety? I don't like to play the bianchi card but people found flat out in double waved yellow zones WILL end up sooner or later with someone getting killed... They don't have flags for no reason.

I don't really understand what you're trying to even establish?? Are you saying he's done nothing wrong?

The guy sets a track record, purple sector, through a DOUBLE waved yellow, with a heavy crash and no run off on the outside of a highspeed corner and debris on the track he then admits he saw the incident and laughs as he says he didn't lift off, his team principle then lies and says there were no yellow flags out when there literally was one right there - this is indefensible, he's literally laughing in the stewards faces

Nope. I just get annoyed at the golden boy stuff whilst Bottas has gotten away with that in the past with little comment. Bottas getting away with it proves the golden boy stuff isn't true.

Verstappen has gotten away with a lot and now he thinks rules don't apply to him (Leclerc thought this in Japan) stewarding in Monza was atrocious and there was plenty of discussion about bottas and Vettels laps, and leclercs racing. But as others have said just because stewarding was bad in one race does not make it okay to let it slide at another

mikeyg123 wrote:

FormulaFun wrote:
Are you.going to ask everyone the same thing who comments on what is an obvious risk to safety? I don't like to play the bianchi card but people found flat out in double waved yellow zones WILL end up sooner or later with someone getting killed... They don't have flags for no reason.

I don't really understand what you're trying to even establish?? Are you saying he's done nothing wrong?

The guy sets a track record, purple sector, through a DOUBLE waved yellow, with a heavy crash and no run off on the outside of a highspeed corner and debris on the track he then admits he saw the incident and laughs as he says he didn't lift off, his team principle then lies and says there were no yellow flags out when there literally was one right there - this is indefensible, he's literally laughing in the stewards faces

Nope. I just get annoyed at the golden boy stuff whilst Bottas has gotten away with that in the past with little comment. Bottas getting away with it proves the golden boy stuff isn't true.

Cherry picking one incident with Valteri doesn't prove anything. Max has mostly avoided penalties for far more questionable driving for years. Moving in breaking zones, overly aggressive passes and defenses, the list goes on and on. When he is penalized, he complains about it and says that racing is being ruined. In fact he said that preemptively in Austria to try to discourage a penalty for his pass on Leclerc. Of course when Leclerc shoved him in Japan, he absolutely wanted to see the penalty there...

I agree they should have announced the investigation sooner. That’s the least amount of notice I’ve seen for someone to report to the stewards.

Three place penalty for Verstappen. Leclerc on pole, who I'm sure is gutted...

3 place grid penalty according to some reports

Good call from the stewards. They had to set a firm precedent. Verstappen's press conference was so arrogant just dismissively saying that they can delete the Lap if they wanted as his previous lap was good enough.

Max sure paid for his hubris here. I'll look forward to him winning the race from 4th position.

You'd hope Max will learn his lesson after this, but I feel like this is said every time he does something so I won't be holding my breath.

Good decision. Just wish it was consistant. At least nobody can continue with the golden child peaky anymore.

Red Bull will NOT be happy with Verstappen behind closed doors - you can believe that.

BMWSauber84 wrote:Good call from the stewards. They had to set a firm precedent. Verstappen's press conference was so arrogant just dismissively saying that they can delete the Lap if they wanted as his previous lap was good enough.

JN23 wrote:You'd hope Max will learn his lesson after this, but I feel like this is said every time he does something so I won't be holding my breath.

He's probably just gonna cry 'theyre ruining racing' again.

Not strong enough penalty imo, his arrogance was madness and he is still able to win easily from 4th with the red bull under him

shoot999 wrote:3 place grid penalty according to some reports

Yep confirmed here. You have to wonder if an enraged Max might take unnecessary risks to get to the front where believes he rightfully should now hold.

wolfticket wrote:I suspect he keep his foot down because of when and where the incident took place, i.e. He thought drivers that had passed it would have a chance to complete their lap and take his pole.

It's the sort of thing that if left without any meaningful penalty seriously undermines the safety of those involved in or first attending an accident.

Even if there weren't yellow flags, the above video admitting he saw the accident and didn't back off passing it is pretty damning in my opinion.

I’m the biggest Verstappen critic but this penalty is nonsense and the grid penalty unwarranted.

In a corner like that, if you didn’t lift while entering, lifting in the middle of it can cause the rear to snap around and Bottas crashed because he made a mistake and got caught on the marbles and drifted wide. His crash was such that the debris was captured on the outside of the track and cars going through there, if they remained on the prime line wouldn’t veer into or towards Bottas.

As for his response to a stupid question the journalist knew the answer to, I like how direct and sarcastic Max was in his answer. I hate when people ask me questions they already know the answer to and I tend to answer in similar fashion. It’s patronizing and unnecessary.

Verstappen has pole several laps before the incident and his pole should stand and the only punishment the FIA should levy is points on his super license. This is gifting Leclerc a starting position he didn’t earn and I sincerely hope Max keeps his head about him tomorrow and proceeds to take the win regardless. These types of penalties bug me because it’s stripping an honest result from someone who earned it fair and square.

BMWSauber84 wrote:Good call from the stewards. They had to set a firm precedent. Verstappen's press conference was so arrogant just dismissively saying that they can delete the Lap if they wanted as his previous lap was good enough.

Yeah that was just disrespectful on Max's part. Seemingly he didn't even consider the possibility of crashing into Bottas there and how dangerous that was...

Invade wrote:Red Bull will NOT be happy with Verstappen behind closed doors - you can believe that.

I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

Invade wrote:Red Bull will NOT be happy with Verstappen behind closed doors - you can believe that.

I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really

Actually, as pointed out several times, they’ve not penalized others for the same thing. So while they might not “play” with safety issues, they enforce rules arbitrarily and inconsistently. And then honestly didn’t see much danger in the move. We’ve seen far more dangerous things go unpenalized.

This penalty really is stupid, and lord knows I DETEST that word.

Verstappen's honesty got him penalised after the stewards had cleared him of no wrong doing, yet again questioning their methodology for policing such things.

Siao7 wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

Invade wrote:Red Bull will NOT be happy with Verstappen behind closed doors - you can believe that.

I bet they’re actually being supportive on this one as they should. His response was matter of fact in saying they can strike his last lap as he already had pole, and his previous lap was set legally. Drivers blatantly go off tack with all 4 tires and they don’t always receive penalties and those lap times aren’t always stricken.

While true, this infraction was regarding safety, they don't play with that. Not the same thing really

Again. No Bottas penalty at Monza for exactly the same infraction. They clearly do play with that.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

wolfticket wrote:I suspect he keep his foot down because of when and where the incident took place, i.e. He thought drivers that had passed it would have a chance to complete their lap and take his pole.

It's the sort of thing that if left without any meaningful penalty seriously undermines the safety of those involved in or first attending an accident.

Even if there weren't yellow flags, the above video admitting he saw the accident and didn't back off passing it is pretty damning in my opinion.

I’m the biggest Verstappen critic but this penalty is nonsense and the grid penalty unwarranted.

In a corner like that, if you didn’t lift while entering, lifting in the middle of it can cause the rear to snap around and Bottas crashed because he made a mistake and got caught on the marbles and drifted wide. His crash was such that the debris was captured on the outside of the track and cars going through there, if they remained on the prime line wouldn’t veer into or towards Bottas.

As for his response to a stupid question the journalist knew the answer to, I like how direct and sarcastic Max was in his answer. I hate when people ask me questions they already know the answer to and I tend to answer in similar fashion. It’s patronizing and unnecessary.

Verstappen has pole several laps before the incident and his pole should stand and the only punishment the FIA should levy is points on his super license. This is gifting Leclerc a starting position he didn’t earn and I sincerely hope Max keeps his head about him tomorrow and proceeds to take the win regardless. These types of penalties bug me because it’s stripping an honest result from someone who earned it fair and square.

I can't agree. Charles, Sebastian, and Lewis would all have been faster than Max if they had been able to complete their final lap in Q3 at speed. There is NO WAY that Max deserved that pole position.

Max risked the health and well being of a fellow driver to get that time. I have NO PROBLEM with the FIA taking it away.

Mort Canard wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

wolfticket wrote:I suspect he keep his foot down because of when and where the incident took place, i.e. He thought drivers that had passed it would have a chance to complete their lap and take his pole.

It's the sort of thing that if left without any meaningful penalty seriously undermines the safety of those involved in or first attending an accident.

Even if there weren't yellow flags, the above video admitting he saw the accident and didn't back off passing it is pretty damning in my opinion.

I’m the biggest Verstappen critic but this penalty is nonsense and the grid penalty unwarranted.

In a corner like that, if you didn’t lift while entering, lifting in the middle of it can cause the rear to snap around and Bottas crashed because he made a mistake and got caught on the marbles and drifted wide. His crash was such that the debris was captured on the outside of the track and cars going through there, if they remained on the prime line wouldn’t veer into or towards Bottas.

As for his response to a stupid question the journalist knew the answer to, I like how direct and sarcastic Max was in his answer. I hate when people ask me questions they already know the answer to and I tend to answer in similar fashion. It’s patronizing and unnecessary.

Verstappen has pole several laps before the incident and his pole should stand and the only punishment the FIA should levy is points on his super license. This is gifting Leclerc a starting position he didn’t earn and I sincerely hope Max keeps his head about him tomorrow and proceeds to take the win regardless. These types of penalties bug me because it’s stripping an honest result from someone who earned it fair and square.

I can't agree. Charles, Sebastian, and Lewis would all have been faster than Max if they had been able to complete their final lap in Q3 at speed. There is NO WAY that Max deserved that pole position.

Max risked the health and well being of a fellow driver to get that time. I have NO PROBLEM with the FIA taking it away.

I don't think so. Charles messed up his second lap, Seb was behind Max before having to lift, and Lewis' S3 "went to pot". Max was faster than them all from what I can tell.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

wolfticket wrote:I suspect he keep his foot down because of when and where the incident took place, i.e. He thought drivers that had passed it would have a chance to complete their lap and take his pole.

It's the sort of thing that if left without any meaningful penalty seriously undermines the safety of those involved in or first attending an accident.

Even if there weren't yellow flags, the above video admitting he saw the accident and didn't back off passing it is pretty damning in my opinion.

I’m the biggest Verstappen critic but this penalty is nonsense and the grid penalty unwarranted.

In a corner like that, if you didn’t lift while entering, lifting in the middle of it can cause the rear to snap around and Bottas crashed because he made a mistake and got caught on the marbles and drifted wide. His crash was such that the debris was captured on the outside of the track and cars going through there, if they remained on the prime line wouldn’t veer into or towards Bottas.

As for his response to a stupid question the journalist knew the answer to, I like how direct and sarcastic Max was in his answer. I hate when people ask me questions they already know the answer to and I tend to answer in similar fashion. It’s patronizing and unnecessary.

Verstappen has pole several laps before the incident and his pole should stand and the only punishment the FIA should levy is points on his super license. This is gifting Leclerc a starting position he didn’t earn and I sincerely hope Max keeps his head about him tomorrow and proceeds to take the win regardless. These types of penalties bug me because it’s stripping an honest result from someone who earned it fair and square.

Can't agree with you on this one; especially the part about the corner. If Bottas could crash there then it's entirely possible that someone else could too (hence the yellow flags). As for the penalty; what would you prefer? That there is no penalty for blatantly disregarding an important rule? It's entirely true that Max did not need to improve on that lap in order to have pole position. The problem is that he still didn't lift for the yellows. It's no one else's fault but his really. A completely unnecessary act but certainly one worthy of a penalty.

Also worth noting that Albon was left wanting given the capabilities of his car. Max smashed him.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:

wolfticket wrote:I suspect he keep his foot down because of when and where the incident took place, i.e. He thought drivers that had passed it would have a chance to complete their lap and take his pole.

It's the sort of thing that if left without any meaningful penalty seriously undermines the safety of those involved in or first attending an accident.

Even if there weren't yellow flags, the above video admitting he saw the accident and didn't back off passing it is pretty damning in my opinion.

I’m the biggest Verstappen critic but this penalty is nonsense and the grid penalty unwarranted.

In a corner like that, if you didn’t lift while entering, lifting in the middle of it can cause the rear to snap around and Bottas crashed because he made a mistake and got caught on the marbles and drifted wide. His crash was such that the debris was captured on the outside of the track and cars going through there, if they remained on the prime line wouldn’t veer into or towards Bottas.

As for his response to a stupid question the journalist knew the answer to, I like how direct and sarcastic Max was in his answer. I hate when people ask me questions they already know the answer to and I tend to answer in similar fashion. It’s patronizing and unnecessary.

Verstappen has pole several laps before the incident and his pole should stand and the only punishment the FIA should levy is points on his super license. This is gifting Leclerc a starting position he didn’t earn and I sincerely hope Max keeps his head about him tomorrow and proceeds to take the win regardless. These types of penalties bug me because it’s stripping an honest result from someone who earned it fair and square.

I profoundly disagree with everything you put up above, I believe he should have been excluded from qualifying.

What he did was not only egregious but profoundly stupid and dangerous and Redbull as a team should cover their face in shame as well.

Bottas in the wall Hamilton did not improve Leclerc had messed up his lap Vettel lifted in the corner where you falsely claimed it will cause the rear to snap, what were both driver and team chasing pole? which they already had or lap record? which is only given in the race.

The high altitude does make it more even between top3. Mclaren seems to be little ahead of STR as the best of the rest.

He did not even have to go any faster as no one was improving. So silly of Max to make that mistake. He missed 2 pole here where he should have had it. Charles was also lucky that Bottas crashed and no one else could improve. With tyre wear it will be interesting race and 3 or 4guys can still win it.

Clarky wrote:

Pest44 wrote:I don’t think there was actually a yellow flag after Bottas crashed. Which is again poor from Masi

Yes there was.

I was writing this when it was live at the time and there wasn’t any yellows shown on the track side boards or on the main feed until after the session had finished. Which made you think there wasn’t any yellows. It’s only after the watching the reply’s that you see a marshal wave a yellow. I don’t understand why it wasn’t an instant red flag as that seems to be the protocol now when someone crashes in qualifying

Glad to see Bottas okay. The way he was breathing had me a bit worried if he broke his ribs or something.

While commentating they never finished the line - Avoid sneezing while braking in a F1 car because...?

If I remember correctly, I think Bottas set a purple sector on S2 before he crashed on S3. Does anyone know what all of their times were after S2?

Source - Imgur


Source - Imgur