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For his rant, Steiner deserves:
1. The 250,000 Euro fine 26%  26%  [ 8 ]
2. A paddock ban 16%  16%  [ 5 ]
3. Some of Haas' constructor points removed 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
4. No penalty 58%  58%  [ 18 ]
Total votes : 31
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:03 am 
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Posts: 138
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
https://www.essentiallysports.com/haas-f1-boss-guenther-steiner-could-face-a-paddock-ban/

Of course all this is not 100% sure as nothing is official yet! As always, the news first comes via inside source or gossips within the paddock. The reason (I've read) in either article is because Steiner hasn't just once openly criticized a steward which is why FIA has had enough. No doubt he criticized a specific steward on the radio to Magnussen but doesn't the FIA have the right to access all the data. team radio etc.

This being the point I was also making.


Ok so where is the line drawn?

If, for example, Pirro walked past when Steiner & Magnussen were having a 1 on 1 discussion & overheard Steiner make that comment, would that be adequate grounds to sanction Steiner?

What if there was a transcript of an internal post race de-brief containing those comments that somehow found it's way into the FIA's hands? Is that reasonable grounds for punishment?

If Steiner made the comment openly at a press conference, then yeah, fair enough, punish him, but over the radio talking only to his driver? No. It's wrong.

Well I think we've heard the football analogy were the 4th official happens to over hear something said by a manager which gets brought to the referees attention and that manager then gets banned to the stands.

Radio conversations clearly get overheard by the officials but even then that's not the point being made, Steiner repeatedly criticises the officials, this wouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to him merely stepping out of line just the once.


Anyone competing in the sport should be allowed to criticise officials freely imho. That's freedom of speech. If said officials disagree, they have the light right to pursue litigation for libel and slander. Creating an officialdom of fear with nazi style methods of scaring competitors into silence is disgraceful imho.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Posts: 2201
Location: Far side of Koozebane
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
https://www.essentiallysports.com/haas-f1-boss-guenther-steiner-could-face-a-paddock-ban/

Of course all this is not 100% sure as nothing is official yet! As always, the news first comes via inside source or gossips within the paddock. The reason (I've read) in either article is because Steiner hasn't just once openly criticized a steward which is why FIA has had enough. No doubt he criticized a specific steward on the radio to Magnussen but doesn't the FIA have the right to access all the data. team radio etc.

This being the point I was also making.


Ok so where is the line drawn?

If, for example, Pirro walked past when Steiner & Magnussen were having a 1 on 1 discussion & overheard Steiner make that comment, would that be adequate grounds to sanction Steiner?

What if there was a transcript of an internal post race de-brief containing those comments that somehow found it's way into the FIA's hands? Is that reasonable grounds for punishment?

If Steiner made the comment openly at a press conference, then yeah, fair enough, punish him, but over the radio talking only to his driver? No. It's wrong.

Well I think we've heard the football analogy were the 4th official happens to over hear something said by a manager which gets brought to the referees attention and that manager then gets banned to the stands.

Radio conversations clearly get overheard by the officials but even then that's not the point being made, Steiner repeatedly criticises the officials, this wouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to him merely stepping out of line just the once.


Anyone competing in the sport should be allowed to criticise officials freely imho. That's freedom of speech. If said officials disagree, they have the light right to pursue litigation for libel and slander. Creating an officialdom of fear with nazi style methods of scaring competitors into silence is disgraceful imho.


No I disagree entirely.

Competitors should not be allowed to publicly vilify officials. Start allowing that and you'll end up with no-one wanting to officiate at sporting events. Should umpires, or lines people, really be forced to accept the antics that tennis players go one with knowing there's nothing in the rule book to protect them? I don't think anyone would honestly say yes. The sport would die if that was allowed.

I'm all for publicly questioning & critiquing the actions of sporting officials, as long as it's done in an official capacity and done with maturity & courtesy. I've no problem with firm & passionate public discussions as long as it's done without it descending into personal insult & ridicule but the public abuse of sporting officials should never be acceptable.

_________________
Races since last non RB, Merc, Ferrari winner (After USA- 19) - 137 & counting.( Last win, Lotus, 17/3/13)

Non RB, Merc, Ferrari podiums won in Hybrid era - 357 trophies available, 24 won

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 16240
Jezza13 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
This being the point I was also making.


Ok so where is the line drawn?

If, for example, Pirro walked past when Steiner & Magnussen were having a 1 on 1 discussion & overheard Steiner make that comment, would that be adequate grounds to sanction Steiner?

What if there was a transcript of an internal post race de-brief containing those comments that somehow found it's way into the FIA's hands? Is that reasonable grounds for punishment?

If Steiner made the comment openly at a press conference, then yeah, fair enough, punish him, but over the radio talking only to his driver? No. It's wrong.

Well I think we've heard the football analogy were the 4th official happens to over hear something said by a manager which gets brought to the referees attention and that manager then gets banned to the stands.

Radio conversations clearly get overheard by the officials but even then that's not the point being made, Steiner repeatedly criticises the officials, this wouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to him merely stepping out of line just the once.


Anyone competing in the sport should be allowed to criticise officials freely imho. That's freedom of speech. If said officials disagree, they have the light right to pursue litigation for libel and slander. Creating an officialdom of fear with nazi style methods of scaring competitors into silence is disgraceful imho.


No I disagree entirely.

Competitors should not be allowed to publicly vilify officials. Start allowing that and you'll end up with no-one wanting to officiate at sporting events. Should umpires, or lines people, really be forced to accept the antics that tennis players go one with knowing there's nothing in the rule book to protect them? I don't think anyone would honestly say yes. The sport would die if that was allowed.

I'm all for publicly questioning & critiquing the actions of sporting officials, as long as it's done in an official capacity and done with maturity & courtesy. I've no problem with firm & passionate public discussions as long as it's done without it descending into personal insult & ridicule but the public abuse of sporting officials should never be acceptable.


I agree. But Steiner didn't do this publicly.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:11 am 
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 2201
Location: Far side of Koozebane
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
dpastern wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:

Ok so where is the line drawn?

If, for example, Pirro walked past when Steiner & Magnussen were having a 1 on 1 discussion & overheard Steiner make that comment, would that be adequate grounds to sanction Steiner?

What if there was a transcript of an internal post race de-brief containing those comments that somehow found it's way into the FIA's hands? Is that reasonable grounds for punishment?

If Steiner made the comment openly at a press conference, then yeah, fair enough, punish him, but over the radio talking only to his driver? No. It's wrong.

Well I think we've heard the football analogy were the 4th official happens to over hear something said by a manager which gets brought to the referees attention and that manager then gets banned to the stands.

Radio conversations clearly get overheard by the officials but even then that's not the point being made, Steiner repeatedly criticises the officials, this wouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to him merely stepping out of line just the once.


Anyone competing in the sport should be allowed to criticise officials freely imho. That's freedom of speech. If said officials disagree, they have the light right to pursue litigation for libel and slander. Creating an officialdom of fear with nazi style methods of scaring competitors into silence is disgraceful imho.


No I disagree entirely.

Competitors should not be allowed to publicly vilify officials. Start allowing that and you'll end up with no-one wanting to officiate at sporting events. Should umpires, or lines people, really be forced to accept the antics that tennis players go one with knowing there's nothing in the rule book to protect them? I don't think anyone would honestly say yes. The sport would die if that was allowed.

I'm all for publicly questioning & critiquing the actions of sporting officials, as long as it's done in an official capacity and done with maturity & courtesy. I've no problem with firm & passionate public discussions as long as it's done without it descending into personal insult & ridicule but the public abuse of sporting officials should never be acceptable.


I agree. But Steiner didn't do this publicly.


That's right. It was the FIA that publicly denigrated Pirro, or at least aided in it.

_________________
Races since last non RB, Merc, Ferrari winner (After USA- 19) - 137 & counting.( Last win, Lotus, 17/3/13)

Non RB, Merc, Ferrari podiums won in Hybrid era - 357 trophies available, 24 won

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:35 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7728
Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
So do we think Pirro would be appreciative of the FIA deciding to participate in his public humiliation by choosing to broadcast the comments. The FIA not only failed to support their steward by allowing the conversation to be transmitted globally, but actively promoted it.


Not sure where you are going with this to be honest. I thought you were advocating for a quieter resolution in one of your posts above. To make it clearer, I agree with the quiet resolution


Do you think the FIA did Pirro any favours by allowing Steiners comments to be transmitted publicly? Why didn't they protect his moral integrity from injury by not broadcasting to exchange? Surely the FIA have to be held to some level of culpability for hurting Pirro's feelings.

Oh man, I really am not following you. I'm agreeing with you that it is something that they should have solved quietly. This includes both sides. Equally that this is the reason why everyone should be careful of what they say on the radio. The FIA not protecting the steward is obviously a bad thing, but what else do you want me to comment on? What will satisfy you? I'm agreeing with you remember


Damn sorry Siao7, in the wee small hours of an Australian morning I seem to have been commenting on the wrong post.

In the clear light of day I should've been responding to pokers comment about a quiet word maybe being seen to sweep things under the carpet.

Haha, no worries, I just got super confused!


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